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Re: Morrissey cancels tour over racism issues
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Croesy Blue
Who’s been charged with a hate crime though in the context of this thread? Morrissey hasn’t committed a hate crime, he’s just aired some bigoted views. He’s not been charged with anything, he’s not in trouble with the police, all that’s happened is capitalism at its finest, people don’t like someone’s personality so they don’t buy anything from them.
So are you now downgrading Morrissey from a racist to being a bigot? You said we could find his racism in his own words on his own website, but I couldn't. Are you playing fast and loose in order to get away with as much as you can, and only pulling back when challenged? Still, we have numerous people repeating the Morrissey is a racist mantra, so you have had some success. I'd still be interested in referencing Morrissey's own words, where he admits to being a racist, so let me know if you ever come across them! :thumbup:
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Re: Morrissey cancels tour over racism issues
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Re: Morrissey cancels tour over racism issues
I think hate crimes are only really ever violent crimes aren't they? Whether they should be treated differently is another matter, I assume they are punished more harshly due to the history of people being attacked for being in a certain group. Like those 2 polish lads who were murdered just after the brexit vote.
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Re: Morrissey cancels tour over racism issues
This article appears to be the source material for those who claim Morrissey is a racist.
https://www.tremr.com/Fiona-Dodwell/...y-an-interview
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Re: Morrissey cancels tour over racism issues
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Croesy Blue
I think hate crimes are only really ever violent crimes aren't they? Whether they should be treated differently is another matter, I assume they are punished more harshly due to the history of people being attacked for being in a certain group. Like those 2 polish lads who were murdered just after the brexit vote.
A Hearts fan was once done for a racially-aggravated public order offence against Celtic player Craig Bellamy. His heinous crime was to refer to him as a "wee Welsh bastard." The linked article has that and other examples of how wide-ranging the law is.
An angry man insults you by calling you Scottish. Is that a race crime? Leading lawyers fear freedom of speech is being eroded by the interpretation of new hate laws, writes Calum Macdonald: http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/1...lum_Macdonald/
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Re: Morrissey cancels tour over racism issues
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Originally Posted by
ninianclark
Hi Eric - In a court though, in reality how would someone ever prove the the accused targetted Chinese supermarkets becuase he disliked Chinese people. ANY barrister with hald a brain would simply say he targeted them because he thought they didnt have cctv, security guards, thought they wouldnt prosecute if caught.
The Police wouldnt go round his house looking for things like anti chinese paraphernalia, they wouldnt do any sort of mental assesment to see if he had issues with Chinese people etc - they would simply just charge him with shop lifting.
Crime is crime as far as I know. The motive maybe some sort of underlying dislike/hate of a certain group of people. Motive is only ever of use when trying to find the culprit to predict their next crime etc.
So hate crime as such doesnt really exist, hate is the possible motive, and whatever act they carry out is the crime.
I love a good legal discussion... but I need to start earning money rather than being on here.
ps - re Frankie Boyle - was it a hate crime or hate speech when he made a joke about a disabled kid , in front of a woman with a disabled child (who wasnt with her) ?
It was a joke. Probably a sick joke. It's something comedians do, they tell jokes. It may have been very ill-advised depending on one's opinion, but hate? No idea what you've been smoking to think that.
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Re: Morrissey cancels tour over racism issues
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Originally Posted by
Organ Morgan.
A Hearts fan was once done for a racially-aggravated public order offence against Celtic player Craig Bellamy. His heinous crime was to refer to him as a "wee Welsh bastard." The linked article has that and other examples of how wide-ranging the law is.
An angry man insults you by calling you Scottish. Is that a race crime? Leading lawyers fear freedom of speech is being eroded by the interpretation of new hate laws, writes Calum Macdonald:
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/1...lum_Macdonald/
Best way of not offending someone is to not be offensive to them.
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Re: Morrissey cancels tour over racism issues
But stupid jobsworth nonsense like that isn’t common though is it? The laws were brought in to try and stop actual issues a lot of minority groups have suffered and which are now thankfully much less common in the U.K.
Unfortunately you’re always going to get instances of laws being ridiculously applied you just have to hope that it doesn’t become a common occurrence, which it isn’t.
I completely agree with the guy in that article he makes exactly the same points
Quote:
The act was a good idea.
There is no doubt ethnic minorities were being abused and the penalties were not fitting the crime.
"There is no problem with the legislation - the problem is that, in the current climate, if you add certain banned adjectives in front of an insult you are branded a racist.
You just hope it’s applied sensibly which as he says it usually is. We all know what’s racist and what isn’t, people trying to get away with obvious dog whistle racism are the ones who are causing the most trouble at the moment.
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Re: Morrissey cancels tour over racism issues
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Originally Posted by
Eric the Half a Bee
Best way of not offending someone is to not be offensive to them.
He wasn't offended; he didn't hear the remarks. But a copper did. As I implied in an earlier message re watch your p's and q's, be bland with everything you say.
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Re: Morrissey cancels tour over racism issues
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Originally Posted by
Organ Morgan.
He wasn't offended; he didn't hear the remarks. But a copper did. As I implied in an earlier message re watch your p's and q's, be bland with everything you say.
But that’s paranoid bollocks though, that isn’t happening anywhere really. You’ve highlighted one instance. Just don’t be a racist or a bigot and no one will get in trouble.
These laws were brought in with equality and safety of everyone in mind. Certain sections of the media will try and spin this in a negative light but as a country with regards to treatment of minorities we’ve improved no end in the last 30 years.
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Re: Morrissey cancels tour over racism issues
A bellend artist makes bellend art.
Remember when there was nothing ...... good old nothing.......the good old days when there was nothing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KVO...&frags=pl%2Cwn
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Re: Morrissey cancels tour over racism issues
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Originally Posted by
Organ Morgan.
I haven't time to check to provide you with a link. But I'm quite sure that if the police receive an official complaint from someone alleging a <s>hate</s> crime has been committed then they are compelled to investigate that complaint.
I think this still sentence still works with that small amendment.
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Re: Morrissey cancels tour over racism issues
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Originally Posted by
Croesy Blue
But that’s paranoid bollocks though, that isn’t happening anywhere really. You’ve highlighted one instance. Just don’t be a racist or a bigot and no one will get in trouble.
These laws were brought in with equality and safety of everyone in mind. Certain sections of the media will try and spin this in a negative light but as a country with regards to treatment of minorities we’ve improved no end in the last 30 years.
There's several examples in that article I linked. I could find examples of Cardiff fans being done for similar against supporters of English clubs and Plymouth fans for insulting Cardiff fans. Those incidents would be dismissed as banter by most I would contend. The point I've been trying to make is it's illegal when someone cares to apply the letter of the law.
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Re: Morrissey cancels tour over racism issues
When was the time a cardiff fan was done for calling someone an English bastard? I honestly cannot ever remember one instance of that.
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Re: Morrissey cancels tour over racism issues
This thread is absolutely mental.
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Re: Morrissey cancels tour over racism issues
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Originally Posted by
Croesy Blue
When was the time a cardiff fan was done for calling someone an English bastard? I honestly cannot ever remember one instance of that.
This one's a real corker. Welsh Cardiff City fan attacks another Welsh Cardiff City fan, and convicted of a racial assault.
Cardiff City fan's race attack on 'English' supporter: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/south_east/8537165.stm
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Re: Morrissey cancels tour over racism issues
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Probation officer Allan Robertson, 48, of Pontypridd, held Michael Bitti by the throat in front of his teenage son, then punched him in the head.
I’d say he got the punishment he deserved.
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Re: Morrissey cancels tour over racism issues
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Originally Posted by
Croesy Blue
:hehe: it's funny how everything seems to be fine as long as it's legal, most stuff going on with Mexican children at the moment is legal
Not Mexican children, they are Central American children, and 5 out of every 6 child is unaccompanied. Of the accompanied children, many are being trafficked or used as drug mules.
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Re: Morrissey cancels tour over racism issues
No dispute re the assault conviction. I'd describe the racial element aggravating the offence as Python-esque.
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Re: Morrissey cancels tour over racism issues
I don’t know he punched him in the face because he was english, I imagine if you read the whole law it isn’t as narrow as “person of a different race”, although the name of it does allow for attention grabbing headlines.
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Re: Morrissey cancels tour over racism issues
All in all Morrissey appears to be somewhat tiresome. Haven't heard much about him musically in recent years. I thought for a moment he might have been a candidate for the talented musicians dying young thread but, obviously he is too alive and too old to qualify for that and, possibly, not talented enough ?:shrug:
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Re: Morrissey cancels tour over racism issues
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Originally Posted by
Enoch Mort
All in all Morrissey appears to be somewhat tiresome. Haven't heard much about him musically in recent years. I thought for a moment he might have been a candidate for the talented musicians dying young thread but, obviously he is too alive and too old to qualify for that and, possibly, not talented enough ?:shrug:
"Not talented enough" :hehe:
It takes absolutely 0 talent to write arguably the best album of all time (or the best according to Rolling Stone magazine) and keep a consistent successful career for over 30 years. Fairly sure he just come off the back of a sold out tour as well.
Without a doubt the best lyricist to ever live. And Johnny Marr wrote some of the best riffs of all time also.
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Re: Morrissey cancels tour over racism issues
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Enoch Mort
All in all Morrissey appears to be somewhat tiresome. Haven't heard much about him musically in recent years. I thought for a moment he might have been a candidate for the talented musicians dying young thread but, obviously he is too alive and too old to qualify for that and, possibly, not talented enough ?:shrug:
Not talented enough :hehe:
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Re: Morrissey cancels tour over racism issues
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Originally Posted by
The Bob Banker Spanker
Not talented enough :hehe:
Does the body rule the mind, or does the mind rule the body?
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Re: Morrissey cancels tour over racism issues
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Originally Posted by
Wales-Bales
Does the body rule the mind, or does the mind rule the body?
I don't know...
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Re: Morrissey cancels tour over racism issues
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Originally Posted by
Baker
"Not talented enough" :hehe:
It takes absolutely 0 talent to write arguably the best album of all time (or the best according to Rolling Stone magazine) and keep a consistent successful career for over 30 years. Fairly sure he just come off the back of a sold out tour as well.
Without a doubt the best lyricist to ever live. And Johnny Marr wrote some of the best riffs of all time also.
Well, as I am not an expert on Morrissey, I posed the question about his degree of talent and you responded and you think he is - fair enough.
However you also say "Without a doubt the best lyricist to ever live". That's quite a claim considering all the lyricists that have contributed to all genres of music over the centuries. Perhaps I might not be inclined to agree with you on that one.
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Re: Morrissey cancels tour over racism issues
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Originally Posted by
Baker
"Not talented enough" :hehe:
It takes absolutely 0 talent to write arguably the best album of all time (or the best according to Rolling Stone magazine) and keep a consistent successful career for over 30 years. Fairly sure he just come off the back of a sold out tour as well.
Without a doubt the best lyricist to ever live. And Johnny Marr wrote some of the best riffs of all time also.
Is the smiths and Morrissey the only music you've ever heard? With that statement it must be
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Re: Morrissey cancels tour over racism issues
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Originally Posted by
Wales-Bales
Not Mexican children, they are Central American children, and 5 out of every 6 child is unaccompanied. Of the accompanied children, many are being trafficked or used as drug mules.
You can't just make comments like this without backing them up with sources. Where did you get this information from?
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Re: Morrissey cancels tour over racism issues
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Originally Posted by
NYCBlue
You can't just make comments like this without backing them up with sources. Where did you get this information from?
It's Wales bales he just makes it up as he goes along
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Re: Morrissey cancels tour over racism issues
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Originally Posted by
jamieccfc
Is the smiths and Morrissey the only music you've ever heard? With that statement it must be
He isn't the only one to think it.
https://consequenceofsound.net/2009/...h-pop-history/
I think his lyrics are brilliant as well. Not as miserable as people who don't listen to him make out, quite witty actually.
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Re: Morrissey cancels tour over racism issues
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Originally Posted by
jamieccfc
Is the smiths and Morrissey the only music you've ever heard? With that statement it must be
No, I listen to a wide variety of music thanks - it's just true.
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Re: Morrissey cancels tour over racism issues
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Originally Posted by
NYCBlue
You can't just make comments like this without backing them up with sources. Where did you get this information from?
That's why I have him on ignore, he lives in a dream world and will never think he's not right
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Re: Morrissey cancels tour over racism issues
Can anyone point to anything he's said that's actually racist?
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Re: Morrissey cancels tour over racism issues
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Originally Posted by
Enoch Mort
Well, as I am not an expert on Morrissey, I posed the question about his degree of talent and you responded and you think he is - fair enough.
However you also say "Without a doubt the best lyricist to ever live". That's quite a claim considering all the lyricists that have contributed to all genres of music over the centuries. Perhaps I might not be inclined to agree with you on that one.
It would be quite a task listening to every lyric ever penned over the centuries and in every language.
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Re: Morrissey cancels tour over racism issues
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Originally Posted by
Skinny Pete
Can anyone point to anything he's said that's actually racist?
It's actually crazy. He has 2 mexican band mates, and has been pictures countless of times with '**** Trump' tshirts on.
I bet some people calling him racist love David Bowie, who literally said we need a facist leader, and that Hitler was the first superstar.
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Re: Morrissey cancels tour over racism issues
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Originally Posted by
Baker
"Not talented enough" :hehe:
It takes absolutely 0 talent to write arguably the best album of all time (or the best according to Rolling Stone magazine) and keep a consistent successful career for over 30 years. Fairly sure he just come off the back of a sold out tour as well.
Without a doubt in my opinion the best lyricist to ever live. And Johnny Marr wrote some of the best riffs of all time also.
there you are, I corrected that for you. There is a doubt because personally I think he is shite!!!!
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Re: Morrissey cancels tour over racism issues
I think he is hugely talented.
Much of the criticism of his racism comes from his extreme vegetarianism so Islam is in the firing line frequently. He does not feel there is any humane way of killing animals to eat them and sees religious institutions promoting certain ways of killing animals as loathsome.
However, his dislike of Islam for this reason has tipped over into some overtly inappropriate comments.
He has also come out with many stupid things over the years, remember "You can’t help but feel that the Chinese people are a sub-species.”?
And the bizarre "I nearly voted for Ukip. I like Nigel Farage a great deal.”, like Farage???? Even if people agree with Farage, which us unimaginable enough, to actual 'like' him? Please.
He recently defended Kevin Spacey claiming he was 'unfairly attacked'. His statement trying to defend his comments was laughable.
Sadly his uniqueness, which was once refreshing, is now tedious and boring. Maybe he and Mourinho could hang out together at a bull fight.
Super talented guy, but talks complete and utter shite.