Gwent records the biggest increase in religious and racial hate crimes since Referendum

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Originally Posted by William Treseder

There are a few of us on this thread doing a good impression of Feedback and Splott Dai. ��. It's a good topic to discuss though and interesting to see the different opinions and takes on it.
If this had been posted on the politics forum I wouldn't have even seen it, as I don't go on there.
As long winded as it is, it's only one thread, and imo has every right to be on this front page along with anything City and football related. It's what made this board so interesting before.
Ps. Feedy and SD are probably contributing under different names. ��

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He has been banned from twitter permanently it looks like so he'll need an outlet.

Allowing Splott Dai back would be ok I think though. There'd be arguing but it'd be more active on here.

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Originally Posted by TISS

they'd be positively apoplectic if Chris Rock appeared.

Some people just cannot or will not understand context is everything and that it is the purpose of comedy to break down social taboos

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Chris Rock regrets that difference between black people and n****** sketch now, says he thinks it gave racists an excuse to use the word

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

Chris Rock regrets that difference between black people and n****** sketch now, says he thinks it gave racists an excuse to use the word

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does he really regret it? I've seen interviews with him and he says he hates the way it was hijacked by the racists, but not that he wishes he hadn't done it. I'm pretty sure Obama used it as a leitmotif too.

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Originally Posted by jon1959

I agree with that up to a point. The point is that it is often impossible to know the intent, and all we are left with is the words and how they are understood by people who hear them. When it comes to a black or gay person 'owning' an offensive word (******, queer etc) and subverting it, the context may be clear. But that usage is not accepted by many black or gay people. When it comes to white or straight people using those words or descriptions - even with the intent of stripping the historical meaning away - it is much harder to establish that different context.

The anguish 4 years ago when Reginald D Hunter did his set (with his usual use of '******' as a provocation and challenge to his audience) at the PFA awards ceremony still captures all the complexity and discomfort about the way language is used. In my opinion then (and still now) Reg uses the word in the right way, but was never going to be acceptable in that environment. The PFA and other football authorities are and were in a panic about how to deal effectively with racism and homophobia. They cannot cope with context or intent and have adopted a binary, rules based response. It gives me little confidence that those authorities understand the issues they are reacting to, but I do have confidence they know how to apply rules.

https://www.theguardian.com/football...r-race-remarks

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You're spot on about the complexity of it all. I wonder if there are even two people in the world who agree 100% on the topic.

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Originally Posted by LordKenwyne

He has been banned from twitter permanently it looks like so he'll need an outlet.

Allowing Splott Dai back would be ok I think though. There'd be arguing but it'd be more active on here.

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It's pretty difficult to get banned from Twitter. And more than that, it appears he has recently been arrested for what I will generously call his 'comments'.

https://storify.com/cdaargh/anti-semites-on-twitter

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Originally Posted by lardy

It's pretty difficult to get banned from Twitter. And more than that, it appears he has recently been arrested for what I will generously call his 'comments'.

https://storify.com/cdaargh/anti-semites-on-twitter

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Isn't holocaust denial quite serious? He was always a bit out there but didn't seem this bad, looks like he's gone off the deep end a bit

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

Isn't holocaust denial quite serious? He was always a bit out there but didn't seem this bad, looks like he's gone off the deep end a bit

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Yeah I looked at his timeline a few times, though he made many thousands of tweets so I only saw a very small part of it, but it was a great deal worse than he posted on here.

Last time I took a peek was when I read that he was part of the gang laying into a BBC reporter:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...interview.html

Mail link because it's the first one that came up on Google.

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Originally Posted by Colonel Cærdiffi

You're spot on about the complexity of it all. I wonder if there are even two people in the world who agree 100% on the topic.

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All about context for me, two great songs, would only offend those most determined to be offended.
John Lennon... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woman_...r_of_the_World
Patti Smith... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_N_Roll_******

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Originally Posted by elytillidie

All about context for me, two great songs, would only offend those most determined to be offended.
John Lennon... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woman_...r_of_the_World
Patti Smith... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_N_Roll_******

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Also Oliver's Army, talks about one less white ******.

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Originally Posted by lardy

Also Oliver's Army, talks about one less white ******.

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in the context of that particular song I think it was a reference to the Irish nationalist/catholic people. the song itself couldn't be more anti war/anti racism unless it was sung by Billy Bragg

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Originally Posted by TISS

in the context of that particular song I think it was a reference to the Irish nationalist/catholic people. the song itself couldn't be more anti war/anti racism unless it was sung by Billy Bragg

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Yep, it was about how it is always the working class who are pushed into doing the dirty jobs on behalf of their government.

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Originally Posted by lardy

Yep, it was about how it is always the working class who are pushed into doing the dirty jobs on behalf of their government.

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plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

But to black people a white person using it always has racist connotations due to the history. I think this is the point we find difficult to understand, I've been to a couple of lectures about it and I always had the same view point as you but I've come to understand I can't understand how a black person feels when a white person uses that word.

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The word is very ugly.
If a white person uses it, it has racist connotations due to history.
If a black person uses it, it could have racist connotations due to history.
I'm sure a LOT of black people despise it's use by other black people.
To have a blanket acceptance of black people using it, is naive as there's a number of reasons why it word be used.
However, there is an undertone to it that continues the differentiation of people's based on colour.
How long before it should be deemed unacceptable for anyone to use it?

nail on the head mate :thumbup:

So after a couple of pages later on the use of the n word, where are we?
It appears it's all down to the context of how it's used. What was the context that the 2 black guys in the Colonels video were using it to call the takeaway attendant Bitch ******?
I'm not racist, so could I call someone who's pissed me off Bitch ******?
It appears that a lot of white folk are trying to bend over backwards in apologising to black people for the way some of our ancestors treated their ancestors in yrs gone by.
Absolute nonsense! It's a horrible word, that nobody of any skin colour should be happy to use, what ever context it's meant in.
Are we gonna have a certain word that only white people can use?
As I said earlier, the world is going mad!

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Originally Posted by William Treseder

So after a couple of pages later on the use of the n word, where are we?
It appears it's all down to the context of how it's used. What was the context that the 2 black guys in the Colonels video were using it to call the takeaway attendant Bitch ******?
I'm not racist, so could I call someone who's pissed me off Bitch ******?
It appears that a lot of white folk are trying to bend over backwards in apologising to black people for the way some of our ancestors treated their ancestors in yrs gone by.
Absolute nonsense! It's a horrible word, that nobody of any skin colour should be happy to use, what ever context it's meant in.
Are we gonna have a certain word that only white people can use?
As I said earlier, the world is going mad!

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I don't understand why white people not being able to use a racist slur means the world is going mad? I don't see why anyone would really take issue with a minority being able to reclaim a word for themselves, it doesn't really affect anyone negatively unless someone is desperate to use this slur.

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

I don't understand why white people not being able to use a racist slur means the world is going mad? I don't see why anyone would really take issue with a minority being able to reclaim a word for themselves, it doesn't really affect anyone negatively unless someone is desperate to use this slur.

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Because when white people use the word they get fired and it's front page news.

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

I don't understand why white people not being able to use a racist slur means the world is going mad? I don't see why anyone would really take issue with a minority being able to reclaim a word for themselves, it doesn't really affect anyone negatively unless someone is desperate to use this slur.

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You are propagating racism by denying the majority/minority the same rights

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Originally Posted by Colonel Cærdiffi

Because when white people use the word they get fired and it's front page news.

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Well don't say it then, is it really that difficult?

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

Well don't say it then, is it really that difficult?

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No, but lets not pretend it isn't racist of you to say that.

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Originally Posted by TISS

You are propagating racism by denying the majority/minority the same rights

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I think it's a bit more subtle and nuanced than that.

Sorry but how can you "reclaim" a word? Whatever next, different versions of the dictionary to accomodate minoritys?

Its either a word we can all use without causing offence, or it shouldnt be used by anyone.

And whilst we are on the subject why is "****'s" deemed to be so offensive? No different to calling us Welshies or Taffies? Plus its quicker to say than Pakistanis.

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Originally Posted by Colonel Cærdiffi

No, but lets not pretend it isn't racist of you to say that.

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It isn't racist of me to say that in the slightest to think a white person saying a word that is racist against black people is worse than a black person saying a word that is racist against black people.

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Originally Posted by J R Hartley

Sorry but how can you "reclaim" a word? Whatever next, different versions of the dictionary to accomodate minoritys.

Its either a word we can all use without causing offence, or it shouldnt be used anyone.

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It's happened several times through history though, what's confusing about it?

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Originally Posted by J R Hartley

Sorry but how can you "reclaim" a word? Whatever next, different versions of the dictionary to accomodate minoritys?

Its either a word we can all use without causing offence, or it shouldnt be used by anyone.

And whilst we are on the subject why is "****'s" deemed to be so offensive? No different to calling us Welshies or Taffies? Plus its quicker to say than Pakistanis.

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It's because **** is almost exclusively used in a negative way, if it hadn't been used as a racist term throughout history it would be fine but it's always been used as a racist slur.

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Originally Posted by J R Hartley

Sorry but how can you "reclaim" a word? Whatever next, different versions of the dictionary to accomodate minoritys?

Its either a word we can all use without causing offence, or it shouldnt be used by anyone.

And whilst we are on the subject why is "****'s" deemed to be so offensive? No different to calling us Welshies or Taffies? Plus its quicker to say than Pakistanis.

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Well, yes I kind of see where you're going with that one. I mean it's ok to call Australians "Aussies", Polish people "Poles", Turkish people as "Turks", so why not shorten Pakistanis? Probably because it used to be followed by the word "Bastard" and was used to cause offence to anyone who seemed to be from that part of the world.

End of the day, it's all about context and the implied meaning behind it.

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Originally Posted by TH63

Well, yes I kind of see where you're going with that one. I mean it's ok to call Australians "Aussies", Polish people "Poles", Turkish people as "Turks", so why not shorten Pakistanis? Probably because it used to be followed by the word "Bastard" and was used to cause offence to anyone who seemed to be from that part of the world.

End of the day, it's all about context and the implied meaning behind it.

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French Bastard is of course still fine because they're not that much browner than us.

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Originally Posted by Colonel Cærdiffi

French Bastard is of course still fine because they're not that much browner than us.

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Indeed.

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Originally Posted by J R Hartley

Sorry but how can you "reclaim" a word? Whatever next, different versions of the dictionary to accomodate minoritys?

Its either a word we can all use without causing offence, or it shouldnt be used by anyone.

And whilst we are on the subject why is "****'s" deemed to be so offensive? No different to calling us Welshies or Taffies? Plus its quicker to say than Pakistanis.

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People find it offensive because while it might have started out as being a shortened version of Pakistani, it quickly became a catch-all name for anyone who looks like they might originate from the Indian subcontinent and needed to be given a bashing for the crime of moving to the UK.

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Originally Posted by Colonel Cærdiffi

French Bastard is of course still fine because they're not that much browner than us.

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Well it isn't fine you're still making a complete twat of yourself if you say it. Just the fact it wasn't a wide spread racial slur used by loads of people means it doesn't have the history behind it and it isn't as offensive.

Calling a German a kraut is just as bad though and they're white.

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

I don't understand why white people not being able to use a racist slur means the world is going mad? I don't see why anyone would really take issue with a minority being able to reclaim a word for themselves, it doesn't really affect anyone negatively unless someone is desperate to use this slur.

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So now you are saying that any white person who uses the word is automatically a racist, and any black person who uses it isn't.
Interesting.

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

Well it isn't fine you're still making a complete twat of yourself if you say it. Just the fact it wasn't a wide spread racial slur used by loads of people means it doesn't have the history behind it and it isn't as offensive.

Calling a German a kraut is just as bad though and they're white.

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Kraut is nowhere near as bad. Show me a comedian that got slammed in the papers for saying "kraut" on stage.

Also, I don't see the difference between calling one person a French Bastard and calling someone else a "complete twat" but I suppose that the complexities of political correctness for you.

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Originally Posted by William Treseder

So now you are saying that any white person who uses the word is automatically a racist, and any black person who uses it isn't.
Interesting.

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Where have I said that? The word is a racist slur whichever way you look at it. Using it doesn't automatically make anyone a racist but I can't see why a white person would need to say it in the majority of situations.

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Originally Posted by Colonel Cærdiffi

Kraut is nowhere near as bad. Show me a comedian that got slammed in the papers for saying "kraut" on stage.

Also, I don't see the difference between calling one person a French Bastard and calling someone else a "complete twat" but I suppose that the complexities of political correctness for you.

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It's nothing to do with political correctness though is it? I would think anyone throwing about needless insults was a bit of a prick but I always think someone who brings nationality into it is often at best very closed minded.

Do you really not think it's just a bit more ignorant. I've lived all over the uk and currently live abroad and I've always felt anyone calling me a "welsh twat" to be a bigger nob than someone who would just call me a twat. Why use my nationality in a negative way? It was just where I was born it doesn't have any implications on whether I'm a twat or not.

I wasn't calling you a complete twat btw I was saying anyone who says stuff like that generally is though.

Perhaps we should ban the word "English" then as by that logic "English Bastards" is a very commonly used racist slur in Wales.

Surely "Bastard" is the offensive word and not the nationality of the word preceding it?

I dont see whats racist about saying youre popping down the pakis for cans.

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Originally Posted by J R Hartley

Perhaps we should ban the word "English" then as by that logic "English Bastards" is a very commonly used racist slur in Wales.

Surely "Bastard" is the offensive word and not the nationality of the word preceding it?

I dont see whats racist about saying youre popping down the pakis for cans.

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Maybe you should be having this conversation with the people who own the shop, they'll have more of a perspective on this than any of us.

But isn't "English Bastard" a bit like "work colleague"?

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Originally Posted by J R Hartley

Perhaps we should ban the word "English" then as by that logic "English Bastards" is a very commonly used racist slur in Wales.

Surely "Bastard" is the offensive word and not the nationality of the word preceding it?

I dont see whats racist about saying youre popping down the pakis for cans.

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I'd always think less of someone saying English bastard, it comes across as ignorant at best. Adding the qualifier of bastard makes it the insult, just like saying someone is black is fine but saying someone is a "black bastard" is racist.

**** is a slur that's what's wrong with saying it. It doesn't mean you're a racist just because you say it though.

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Originally Posted by TH63

But isn't "English Bastard" a bit like "work colleague"?

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:hehe:

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Originally Posted by J R Hartley

Perhaps we should ban the word "English" then as by that logic "English Bastards" is a very commonly used racist slur in Wales.

Surely "Bastard" is the offensive word and not the nationality of the word preceding it?

I dont see whats racist about saying youre popping down the pakis for cans.

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Not much wrong with it if you say it.

But unfortunately it has been used in a hateful way 9 times out of 10. Any use of the word now has a connotation that cannot be negotiated.