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Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
No longer Sludge, mate. I early retired a few years ago after 28 years in housing - but I still keep in touch and read the housing press.
I think TISS (Feedback - surely) was aiming at Pearcey' comment about the well-off getting tax cuts under the Tories. He seems to doubt that the Tories handed the rich £70bn in tax cuts through changes to corporation tax, inheritance tax, capital gains tax and the bank levy. He would, wouldn't he. Even the most pro-Tory commentators agree that is the headline - even if they quibble about some of the fine print.
You have to keep at them Jon , they just won't have it
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Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
No longer Sludge, mate. I early retired a few years ago after 28 years in housing - but I still keep in touch and read the housing press.
I think TISS (Feedback - surely) was aiming at Pearcey' comment about the well-off getting tax cuts under the Tories. He seems to doubt that the Tories handed the rich £70bn in tax cuts through changes to corporation tax, inheritance tax, capital gains tax and the bank levy. He would, wouldn't he. Even the most pro-Tory commentators agree that is the headline - even if they quibble about some of the fine print.
Except it's not evidenced in fact. You only have to look at what taxes have been collected pre and post 2010 to see more taxes are collected now that ever before. For each cut in the headline rate is a corresponding removal of a relief or an allowance. The devil is in the detail and I would suggest you read the various finance acts since 2010 to understand how this government has partaken in legerdemain not seen previously.
It is easy to fool the public by dropping the rate of tax, but if you remove various reliefs associated with It, you end up collecting more revenue than before.
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Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dembethewarrior
Im fortunate to have a wide network of friends and family around me, id like to think that as long as I don't do anything silly then the help would be there.
Can't go too much into it, but years ago my friend had to go live elsewhere and ended up running back to our area, he had spells in some of our houses from time to time, he would come round mine for a bath and food when the parents were out, or a load of us would camp out together so he wasn't on his own. Hard to explain to a parent "don't tell anyone he's here" so it wasn't like we had the option of a roof to offer..
Loads aren't so lucky, some don't have family, others have one but something horrible has happened, some may have one but due to a mental illness not feel they can ask for help (if that makes sense, it does as I type it but may not to read it)
It makes perfect sense mate , good on you for helping out your friend
Mental illness, family breakdown , domestic violence , loss of a job , the need for safe housing could happen to any of us at any time
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Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
No , we have increasing demand , due to an increasing population , on the houses that remain following the sell off
As for those who support the right to buy let's have a list of the organisations that do and let's see if they have the good of the country and its housing at heart or are capitalists obsessed with us having a property owning population
That increase in population would still happen whether the houses were sold off or not. And since the 5000 houses sold off are already occupied then they won't be available to any additional demand due to an increase in population. So the situation hasn't improved or worsened in either case.
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Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Nick
Lowest level of social housing being built since records began
Not good at all, and the Tories have had seven years to deal with it
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Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TISS
That increase in population would still happen whether the houses were sold off or not. And since the 5000 houses sold off are already occupied then they won't be available to any additional demand due to an increase in population. So the situation hasn't improved or worsened in either case.
This is feedback posting under another name , it's the same nonsense he used to come out with
The right to buy has led to a council that previously had 10000 properties in the cycle to be available to rent ......to now only having 5000
And those which are left are of lesser quality as all the nice ones have been sold
Hence a greater demand for fewer houses , of poorer quality
What part of this don't you understand
Why do you think almost all the council houses in cowbridge have been sold and very few on the colcot estate in Barry have been bought ?
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Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
It makes perfect sense mate , good on you for helping out your friend
Mental illness, family breakdown , domestic violence , loss of a job , the need for safe housing could happen to any of us at any time
Sad but true mate. Haunts me at times that we can't help the people that need our help...
Moved lightyears forward in medicine and technology, and our biggest issue is charity..well not lack of it as there are plenty that try...but we still struggle to help people in need. Kills me.
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Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dembethewarrior
Sad but true mate. Haunts me at times that we can't help the people that need our help...
Moved lightyears forward in medicine and technology, and our biggest issue is charity..well not lack of it as there are plenty that try...but we still struggle to help people in need. Kills me.
You can only do your best mate
We are living in an age of me me me , it will either go on till everything falls apart or we as a country come to our senses
Have a good evening
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Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Nick
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dembethewarrior
And thank you for the advice
That's ok mate. It really is nothing. The fact that you would take an interest in this guy is everything. Looking something up for him and passing it on is just better again. Good on ya. Whatever he does thereafter you have been a solid citizen. Class mate.
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Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
Is this a joke ?
Corbyn’s influences, are more Benn and marxist driven Ralph Miliband, he has been hugely critical of Labour’ s social history over the decades, and a huge chuck of that was based on a Social democratic platform , not perfect but with a social democracy objective.
I think the latest social democracy "badge" is an attempt to re brand and water down his stronger and real left views , as he and others of his current party need the votes from the middle ground,as its always been the political battle ground ,and they know that .
Its a pity he didn't show some of the alleged social democracy toward a real decent man in Hilary Benn , and applying the whip in the commons , I wonder what dad would think
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Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
This is feedback posting under another name , it's the same nonsense he used to come out with
The right to buy has led to a council that previously had 10000 properties in the cycle to be available to rent ......to now only having 5000
And those which are left are of lesser quality as all the nice ones have been sold
Hence a greater demand for fewer houses , of poorer quality
What part of this don't you understand
Why do you think almost all the council houses in cowbridge have been sold and very few on the colcot estate in Barry have been bought ?
We had a monster thread a few years ago on the Right To Buy and how it reduced access to housing for the worst off and crippled Council housing budgets whilst giving a huge subsidy to the best off tenants. Feedback was all over it and we must have covered every myth and fact possible. This one is just like Groundhog Day.
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Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
You can only do your best mate
We are living in an age of me me me , it will either go on till everything falls apart or we as a country come to our senses
Have a good evening
You too fella.
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Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled
Quote:
Originally Posted by
joecity
That's ok mate. It really is nothing. The fact that you would take an interest in this guy is everything. Looking something up for him and passing it on is just better again. Good on ya. Whatever he does thereafter you have been a solid citizen. Class mate.
I'll be sure to update you!
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Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
We had a monster thread a few years ago on the Right To Buy and how it reduced access to housing for the worst off and crippled Council housing budgets whilst giving a huge subsidy to the best off tenants. Feedback was all over it and we must have covered every myth and fact possible. This one is just like Groundhog Day.
Do you reckon the one in another 3 years time will be the same?
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Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled
We don’t need social housing anymore, the Tories will just continue with their murdering spree.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/he...-a8057306.html
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Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
This is feedback posting under another name , it's the same nonsense he used to come out with
The right to buy has led to a council that previously had 10000 properties in the cycle to be available to rent ......to now only having 5000
And those which are left are of lesser quality as all the nice ones have been sold
Hence a greater demand for fewer houses , of poorer quality
What part of this don't you understand
Why do you think almost all the council houses in cowbridge have been sold and very few on the colcot estate in Barry have been bought ?
Sludge
You've not changed the demand for social housing and you haven't changed the supply. If you sell 5000 houses you have reduced the stock by 5000 but you have also reduced the demand by 5000.
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Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
We had a monster thread a few years ago on the Right To Buy and how it reduced access to housing for the worst off and crippled Council housing budgets whilst giving a huge subsidy to the best off tenants. Feedback was all over it and we must have covered every myth and fact possible. This one is just like Groundhog Day.
I remember the thread. It's the same as this - you dress up your opinion as fact.
I asked the question many times previously and it was never answered. How does changing the legal title owner of a property impact the overall requirement for housing?
The issue appears to be not the fact the houses were sold off (as this makes no change to overall supply or demand), but the fact promises were made to restock social housing and these werent always kept.
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Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled
Politics board for this one then....was nice trying to discuss homelessness while it lasted.
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Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dembethewarrior
Politics board for this one then....was nice trying to discuss homelessness while it lasted.
I am surprised it has lasted 5 pages without being moved tbh
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Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dembethewarrior
Politics board for this one then....was nice trying to discuss homelessness while it lasted.
Isn't homelessness a serious political issue. There has always been homelessness, even in far left economies such as the USSR.
As long as man has lived in cities (starting with the sumerians) we have always had homelessness. It is a surprise that in a modern advanced economy that it exists but this isn't a new phenomenon and isn't unique to capitalist economies as some would have you believe.
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Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dembethewarrior
Politics board for this one then....was nice trying to discuss homelessness while it lasted.
It was always a political post given the title of the thread.
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Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TISS
I remember the thread. It's the same as this - you dress up your opinion as fact.
I asked the question many times previously and it was never answered. How does changing the legal title owner of a property impact the overall requirement for housing?
The issue appears to be not the fact the houses were sold off (as this makes no change to overall supply or demand), but the fact promises were made to restock social housing and these werent always kept.
It changed the way people viewed housing.
I really like the idea of these schemes where the value of the property is forever linked to the average wage of the local area. Should allow people to live in a nice house/flat but doesn't screw the next generation over and crucially allows people to live and work in roughly the same place.
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Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Nick
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TISS
Sludge
You've not changed the demand for social housing and you haven't changed the supply. If you sell 5000 houses you have reduced the stock by 5000 but you have also reduced the demand by 5000.
Only for those who can afford to but isn't it? I might be missing something.
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Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric Cartman
It changed the way people viewed housing.
I really like the idea of these schemes where the value of the property is forever linked to the average wage of the local area. Should allow people to live in a nice house/flat but doesn't screw the next generation over and crucially allows people to live and work in roughly the same place.
It sounds like a good idea and I'm pretty sure that's how it was when the supply chain was local. Nowadays with a more global supply chain building new stock within the confines of the local wage would drive down standards in lower wage areas.
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Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric Cartman
It changed the way people viewed housing.
I really like the idea of these schemes where the value of the property is forever linked to the average wage of the local area. Should allow people to live in a nice house/flat but doesn't screw the next generation over and crucially allows people to live and work in roughly the same place.
It matters not if a house is built in the north of Blaenau Gwent or in Cyncoed, the cost of building the house will be exactly the same. The land value will be different, yes, but not the build cost.
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Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled
Quote:
Originally Posted by
joecity
Only for those who can afford to but isn't it? I might be missing something.
There will be no change to the numbers needing housing or to the numbers of houses overall. You have only changed the legal title holder.
If there were 10000 people needing a home before the sell off there would be 10000 needing a home after the sell off. Those who exercised RTB already had a house, so didn't form part of the demand for new housing
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Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TISS
I remember the thread. It's the same as this - you dress up your opinion as fact.
I asked the question many times previously and it was never answered. How does changing the legal title owner of a property impact the overall requirement for housing?
The issue appears to be not the fact the houses were sold off (as this makes no change to overall supply or demand), but the fact promises were made to restock social housing and these werent always kept.
I'm not going to re-run that old thread, but just for old times' sake:
I have given opinions and facts in the previous debate about Right To Buy. You have done the same. But in my opinion my facts are more relevant and my opinions are based on decades of experience of housing management, finance and attempts to improve and expand social housing stock in Sheffield. The issues are not much different anywhere else in the country - even where councils have sold or transferred most or all their stock to housing associations. It just makes it more difficult to meet housing need when there is no council housing left.
You asked a question in the past and it was answered. Many times. You just didn't like the answer. When a council home is sold under the Right To Buy a number of things follow. A rental stream to the council (for repairs, improvements and services) stops and is replaced by a massively discounted capital receipt that has restrictions on its future use applied. RTB disproportionately takes away the better homes which can no longer be relet when the current tenant leaves (if no succession or assignment), and leads to ghettoisation of tenants and remaining council homes. As RTB eats into the stock it reduces economies of scale for the council and makes it more expensive to manage and maintain what is left. It is a process that helps to make council homes a tenure of last resort rather than a tenure of choice as they were in the post-war decades up to the 1980s. You always come back with a simplistic numbers game that ignores the complexities of housing finance or the dynamics of housing supply and demand.
The failure to meet promises to replace RTB homes on a one-for-one basis is a major issue - but not the only one. The government has basically told councils they should do so but without the resources to make it happen. They have at least made it possible for councils to build again when the Self Financing Housing Revenue Account was introduced in 2010 in place of the previous subsidy system (where new build would have been penalised by central government reducing the annual settlement) - but councils still face tenants buying new-built homes under the RTB with subsidy at less than cost, and leaving the council with 60 years of capital repayments and no income! That is the biggest disincentive to building new homes and won't go away unless the RTB is abolished. They have also left in place the crazy requirement that any high value council homes sold will have the capital receipt ring-fenced, mostly to subsidise discounts for housing association RTB:
https://www.ft.com/content/47185f42-...e-8a339b6f2164
There is a government fetish for owner occupation that has the effect of crippling social (especially council) housing.
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Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric Cartman
I am surprised it has lasted 5 pages without being moved tbh
Agree.
I get there is a political side to it, but when it gets like this it's time to give up.
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Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Nick
It was always a political post given the title of the thread.
Evening sweetie.
Well pointed out..it was rather a mix in the early pages...nothing to hard...its now gone full tilt...not that hard to realise what I was getting at ya ****ing smart arse zzz
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Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
I'm not going to re-run that old thread, but just for old times' sake:
I have given opinions and facts in the previous debate about Right To Buy. You have done the same. But in my opinion my facts are more relevant and my opinions are based on decades of experience of housing management, finance and attempts to improve and expand social housing stock in Sheffield. The issues are not much different anywhere else in the country - even where councils have sold or transferred most or all their stock to housing associations. It just makes it more difficult to meet housing need when there is no council housing left.
You asked a question in the past and it was answered. Many times. You just didn't like the answer. When a council home is sold under the Right To Buy a number of things follow. A rental stream to the council (for repairs, improvements and services) stops and is replaced by a massively discounted capital receipt that has restrictions on its future use applied. RTB disproportionately takes away the better homes which can no longer be relet when the current tenant leaves (if no succession or assignment), and leads to ghettoisation of tenants and remaining council homes. As RTB eats into the stock it reduces economies of scale for the council and makes it more expensive to manage and maintain what is left. It is a process that helps to make council homes a tenure of last resort rather than a tenure of choice as they were in the post-war decades up to the 1980s. You always come back with a simplistic numbers game that ignores the complexities of housing finance or the dynamics of housing supply and demand.
The failure to meet promises to replace RTB homes on a one-for-one basis is a major issue - but not the only one. The government has basically told councils they should do so but without the resources to make it happen. They have at least made it possible for councils to build again when the Self Financing Housing Revenue Account was introduced in 2010 in place of the previous subsidy system (where new build would have been penalised by central government reducing the annual settlement) - but councils still face tenants buying new-built homes under the RTB with subsidy at less than cost, and leaving the council with 60 years of capital repayments and no income! That is the biggest disincentive to building new homes and won't go away unless the RTB is abolished. They have also left in place the crazy requirement that any high value council homes sold will have the capital receipt ring-fenced, mostly to subsidise discounts for housing association RTB:
https://www.ft.com/content/47185f42-...e-8a339b6f2164
There is a government fetish for owner occupation that has the effect of crippling social (especially council) housing.
I don't disagree with what you have written but you've not answered the question, which was how does changing legal title affect supply and demand? It doesnt.
You also ignore the cash inflow from selling stock which can be used to reinvest in public services elsewhere / pay off debt / so on.
Previously homeownership was the preserve of the rich, then the middle classes and then, due to this policy, the less well off. If this was a labour policy it would be lauded but since its a tory policy (and a thatcher one to boot), somehow aspiring to own your own home and policies to go with it is deemed wrong.
Getting to the crux of your complaint is not the sell off but the lack of building new stock. That's something that has affected all governments and isn't related to selling off stock at all, it's lack of investment and desire tomake things happen
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Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dembethewarrior
Evening sweetie.
Well pointed out..it was rather a mix in the early pages...nothing to hard...its now gone full tilt...not that hard to realise what I was getting at ya ****ing smart arse zzz
I have no idea who you previously posted as on here but please give it a rest.
It’s too not to, as well.
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Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Nick
I have no idea who you previously posted as on here but please give it a rest.
It’s too not to, as well.
He has all the hallmarks of Vimana.
Sad Troll.
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Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dembethewarrior
Agree.
I get there is a political side to it, but when it gets like this it's time to give up.
I will try again quoting a quote cause I seem to have Nick stuck in my quote box..No offence Nick.It is impossible as I see to discuss homelessnes or housing without it being political. Ideally for me mportant issues such as this would be handed over to non governmental and fully independent bodies that would build housing purely on need, population, future projections with protected budgets. That will never happen I suppose so a need will always be a political football.
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Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Nick
I have no idea who you previously posted as on here but please give it a rest.
It’s too not to, as well.
initials are DTW
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Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TISS
initials are DTW
Dr Tim Wuff ??
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Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
Dr Tim Wuff ??
Dogs bollocks
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Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled
Why do you always assume a new poster is an old poster or a troll. This board got no future with that attitude. Getting pulled up on spelling names, trolling etc. Ooh comparing hallmarks..feck me seeing traits..Get a life n talk to the man or fekn ignore him look like dicks u choose.
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Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled
Quote:
Originally Posted by
joecity
Why do you always assume a new poster is an old poster or a troll. This board got no future with that attitude. Getting pulled up on spelling names, trolling etc. Ooh comparing hallmarks..feck me seeing traits..Get a life n talk to the man or fekn ignore him look like dicks u choose.
I’m assuming nothing. This poster has obviously posted previously and now changed name.
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Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled
You will know better than me I thought hesaid he was a new poster. This board resembles a witches cauldron of old fecks staring into green bubbling bile sometimes asperctions cast on past postings. Who cares not me. I just look at whats written think about it n maybe answer it. I agree that Minion was out of order but I can't see much harm otherwise.
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Re: Since the Tories came in , rough sleepers on the streets has doubled
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Nick
It matters not if a house is built in the north of Blaenau Gwent or in Cyncoed, the cost of building the house will be exactly the same. The land value will be different, yes, but not the build cost.
What is your point?
I am referring to schemes which sell a portion of a development at market value and a portion at an 'affordable' value linked to the local average wage - the one I saw coverage of was in London.