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Originally Posted by William Treseder
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Originally Posted by William Treseder
Oh mate 🤦🏻*♂️Quote:
Originally Posted by Badly Ironed Shirt
Nobody has attempted to counter it, other than vacuous responses.Quote:
Originally Posted by NYCBlue
Probably because it’s veen discussed to death. Go search in one of the 20 other threads about it.
No one is saying he’s an angel and the debt to equity thing is a concern, I admit I’m not clever enough to understand it, maybe he knows better than me?
What people are saying is despite being a complete c*nt 5 years ago he’s admitted a mistake and the club is in a decent state. He even comes across as being a bit more humble these days.
I stayed away after the re-brand.
I'm back now.
Tan isn't the worst owner we've ever had - but had the biggest impact of any.
There will always be some people who can't forgive or who have moved on - let's leave them in peace.
No point in going over history we can't change anything.
Point about debt to equity though is still valid.
Lets see what Tan does next.
The club owes him money for his incompetence. Doesn't quite add up for me, but it's a shame he didn't deliver on his promise of a debt free club. There is a risk (probably small) that he could use the PL money to pay himself off. Had he cleared the debts, then there would have been no risk of that happening. Tan isn't stupid when it comes to money, the majority of us are. There's a bigger game at play here. There must be because, despite repeatedly promising it, he has repeatedly moved the goal posts or, lately, just not even bothered giving an explanation at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Croesy Blue
He was promising a debt free club in 2012. Perhaps, unlike me, he has decided to give it a rest. I wonder why?
Maybe he’s going to f*ck the club over or maybe he’ll end up wiping out the debt completely, who knows? Maybe he’ll sell the club? I can see why people would be suspicious of him but seems a bit of a strange thing to attack him with now.
As someone else has said, people aren't staying away/bitter about the club because of Tan. They're staying away/still bitter because of their experiences with fellow supporters during the rebrand.
I have mentioned this issue previously. It's hardly a strange thing to "attack" (strong word) him with. Especially after he made so many promises, the last being February 2016 when he said it was imminent.Quote:
Originally Posted by Croesy Blue
And? No one is saying he’s perfect are they?
Did he actually utter the words ‘I promise’ or is it a similar situation to ‘mistake’ not being accepted as an ‘apology’Quote:
Originally Posted by Badly Ironed Shirt
I don’t know - so happy to be informed by a quote
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/...-debt-10875878Quote:
Originally Posted by StraightOuttaCanton
I didn't claim that anyone said that. The OP did, however, claim that the haters "must surely forgive him now". As if there was only one problem in Tan's (mis-)handling of the club.Quote:
Originally Posted by Croesy Blue
I don’t understand the difference between all these financial thingys. I’m sure someone will tell me I should show more interest but I don’t really care. I’ve been reading this board since 1999 and I know some people have followed the finances closely for 20 years now- many before that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Badly Ironed Shirt
My own view is we will always be in potential trouble- just like every other club really, (even the perfect Swansea everyone used to be jealous of). And if a time happens when it all seems too good to be true- then it probably is and a fall will come soon.
I don’t think I’ve ever liked any of our owners, I certainly have never trusted any of them and I’m sure I never will. Just the way it is. The way it should be in my opinion- fans getting too close to owners rarely ends well- as we know better than anyone.
You got to stick by the club through the bad times as well as the good we're now reaping the rewards from a couple of bad years I feel for tlg and bis who will hold a grudge to the grave but hey ho that's their choice
I don’t see any promises or even quotes in that article - is there a video similar to the one where he admits he made a mistake and put it right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Badly Ironed Shirt
To be clear - I’m not pro-Tan or necessarily anti either. Owning football clubs in the top 2 divisions of the English leagues is for the mega rich. I’m not sure if it is about ego or asset accumulation or financial gain but I know that it has been taken out of the hands of the common supporter, and even though club ‘trusts’ are admirable they’re becoming less significant and carry very limited influence.
I’m ok with it as long as I have a team to support. I recognise there’s a risk that that might be taken away but I love the fact that the great city of my birth is about to get more worldwide recognition because of The Bluebirds!
All well and good - but I view owners as custodians of our football clubs. Football clubs probably get a little more protection than other businesses when it comes to things like name, location and (only recently) club colours. Fans getting close to owners never ends well - I agree - but fans holding owners to account, not much wrong with that is it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Father Dougal
Nope. I haven’t defended tan at all. Merely saying i don’t trust any of themQuote:
Originally Posted by Badly Ironed Shirt
As someone says above it wouldn’t surprise me if tan wiped the entire debt out himself, if he sold the club on, or if (as I thought he’d do) pocket the promotion/parachute money cut his losses and bugger off. Very pleased he didn’t do that but I’ve no idea what the future will bring. I’m sure the new owner will bring his own baggage. The way UK football is unfortunately.
I wasn't at the Q&A, but I believe some on here did attend. Maybe they can recall what was said. Quite a few news outlets ran with the story that the debt had been converted - and quite a few people used this "fact" to discredit my argument about the club being in a huge amount of debt. It's obvious there has been some misinformation somewhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by StraightOuttaCanton
Here's the report from the CCST
http://www.ccfctrust.org/?p=4590
Bit presumptuous mate, they might choose cremation.Quote:
Originally Posted by jamieccfc
I am not sure I said you were defending Tan.Quote:
Originally Posted by Father Dougal
If Tan had converted debt to equity, then there would be no danger of him pocketing the PL money to pay for his debts. To be honest, there's probably little chance he would do it now. However, a debt free club would be more attractive to potential investors, and it would stand a better chance of success in the long term. In my opinion, of course.
Cremation for me, every time. (Well, actually it will only be the one time :hehe:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuerto
To be honest - I’m really not interested in any of the rhetoric. It may have been promised. It may have been an apology. I’m sure there are many other places in the internet where you could have the reasoned debate you want, but I think you probably know it’s not here - but your fortitude is at least impressive. I don’t believe there’s a person on here who hasn’t read your repeated perspective and opinion in such a way that we could all write your responses for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Badly Ironed Shirt
My sentiments are broadly expressed in the last 2 paragraphs of my reply to you which you for your own reasons chose not to acknowledge
I’ll make you a promise now - i’ll happily engage in any debate with you where my personal judgement is that you’re not being contrary or anti-CCFC, but will not respond in any more threads to you (or the other guy) where the 5 year old circular bullshit continues - Deal?
I think you're under the wrong impression that I care whether you reply to me or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by StraightOuttaCanton
Make sure you take that 'grudge' with you, or move on, whatever that means.Quote:
Originally Posted by Badly Ironed Shirt
:hehe:Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuerto
I’m totally ambivalent - but my promise stands. At least you’ll know there’s someone on here that you might be able to talk to other than yourselfQuote:
Originally Posted by Badly Ironed Shirt
Here's another anti-Tan post (I am merely quoting him word for word in the article above).
"I think now, officially, the club owes me £107m (someone confirms by saying "correct"). And what I've decided that this, this, this year's account I'm going to write off, I'm going to convert sixty million pound into shares, into equity. So, that will leave about £47m debts, and the £47m we need it to for continuous write off to meet FFP, uh, FFP rules. So I am converting sixty million to show my, uh what and that's because we have resolved our long outstanding creditors, creditor who took us to court who said nasty things about us (laughter) but whom I say is the luckiest man in the football world that Vincent Tan came to Cardiff. So lucky, frankly I don't think he deserves it. I don't even mention his name, I don't want to mention his name. (laughter). It will spoil my day if I mention his name."
The interesting thing in this excerpt is how, in my opinion, Tan seems to be struggling to get his words out until he starts speaking about Hammam. I agree with you, it's hardly a promise and, watching it again tonight, it's hardly a convincing statement. Well, not to me it isn't.
And if he did convert all the debt to equity, you would be buggered as you wouldnt have anything to moan about would you. Then again you would find something else he said in the past and twist it to suit your own ends - again. Who cares what you think anyway, I know I dont.Quote:
Originally Posted by Badly Ironed Shirt
Jesus. Do I really have to quote "those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it"?Quote:
Originally Posted by Louth
"You can't change history but you can change the future". Heard of that one?
It's not called moving on. It's called putting your head in the sand.
Well done Tim. Well done . 👏🙈
A touch dramatic.Quote:
Originally Posted by NYCBlue
Chairman changes team colours - a small minority get upset.
Chairman reverts to original colours - a small minority are still upset.
Club gets promoted to PL - a small minority etc.
Conclusion - some people love being upset.
This is my last word on the subject - these 'fans' have been milking it for years.
I understand your pain hun!
Fecking man up and stop being drama queens.
The fact that you assert "a small minority" got upset over the rebrand renders this post clueless......seriously a small minority ???Quote:
Originally Posted by Louth
I'd say that it was probably a smallish minority of Cardiff City supporters, though these people represent a far larger proportion of people that post on the several Cardiff City message boards about the rebrand.Quote:
Originally Posted by I'll give you the Malky!!
Attention seekers tha's allQuote:
Originally Posted by Louth
Echo chamberQuote:
Originally Posted by dml1954
I've never quite understood the argument that the majority are likely to be the correct ones. It's a flawed argument.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick
I am pretty sure the Chairman Mehmet Dalman `didn't change anything or change it back (although he was influential in the decision). The person who did the change and reversion was the owner Vincent TanQuote:
Originally Posted by Louth