Jewish group walks away from Labour

That's remarkable Eric because I myself received a telephone call this week from an old friend asking me to exercise a proxy vote for him and his wife !
He explained that due to the short notice election they haven't got time to send out postal vote forms so they're advising people to use proxy votes. I hardly dare mention this because it seems so convenient to my argument , but they expressed a wish to do all they could to prevent Corbyn being elected - I certainly wouldn't have mentioned it but I had to when I read what you posted !

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RonnieBird

That's remarkable Eric because I myself received a telephone call this week from an old friend asking me to exercise a proxy vote for him and his wife !
He explained that due to the short notice election they haven't got time to send out postal vote forms so they're advising people to use proxy votes. I hardly dare mention this because it seems so convenient to my argument , but they expressed a wish to do all they could to prevent Corbyn being elected - I certainly wouldn't have mentioned it but I had to when I read what you posted !

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https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/ope...ned-be-jewish/
Are they looking in the wrong direction ?
https://www.thejc.com/comment/commen...fears-1.491022
Just read the last paragraph for the punchline !

You quote two viewpoints. You and they might be right, but as I said to Eric, the point remains that opinion within both the Jewry and general public seems to have reached a critical mass against labour and Corbyn.
It might change with a new leader, but for the moment they're not trusted

https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presente...-labour-party/


A caller to LBC speaks of labour anti semitism . Worth a listen

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RonnieBird

https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presente...-labour-party/


A caller to LBC speaks of labour anti semitism . Worth a listen

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And the comments below the article are worth a read.

I'm not sure what you're saying Jon - that the victims are lying/ very sensitive , or that they deserve it ?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RonnieBird

I'm not sure what you're saying Jon - that the victims are lying/ very sensitive , or that they deserve it ?

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None of those things. You are promoting the views of Jason, and long-time resident of Jerusalem attacking the Labour Party (although saying in his view that rising anti-semitism in the UK/Europe long pre-dates Corbyn). The comments under the article demolish his argument and challenge the conflation of Israeli state actions and experiences with those of Jewish people on the streets of European cities. It is what you do too - so no wonder you like what he says. Unless it comes from Netanyahu or Trump the Jewish Chronicle takes (rightly) a very dim view of that type of conflation. The label it normally applies is 'anti semitic trope' and usually backs it up with a reference to the full IHRA definition with examples - the one now adopted by the Labour Party, but not strangely by the Tories!

(I think the IHRA definition examples are rubbish - over half refer to the state of Israel - but critics can't have it both ways!)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jon1959

None of those things. You are promoting the views of Jason, and long-time resident of Jerusalem attacking the Labour Party (although saying in his view that rising anti-semitism in the UK/Europe long pre-dates Corbyn). The comments under the article demolish his argument and challenge the conflation of Israeli state actions and experiences with those of Jewish people on the streets of European cities. It is what you do too - so no wonder you like what he says. Unless it comes from Netanyahu or Trump the Jewish Chronicle takes (rightly) a very dim view of that type of conflation. The label it normally applies is 'anti semitic trope' and usually backs it up with a reference to the full IHRA definition with examples - the one now adopted by the Labour Party, but not strangely by the Tories!

(I think the IHRA definition examples are rubbish - over half refer to the state of Israel - but critics can't have it both ways!)

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I agree.
https://www.thecanary.co/uk/2018/07/...-defined-them/

Of course it predates Corbyn but the point is that in labour it has an official "volks" Party to attach itself to.
A charismatic but probably insane "leader" who promises impossible wealth to the lowest and most unproductive parts of society and has used procedural blocking tactics to engineer power in the state parliament .
He's already setting the Jews up to absorb the anger when his mad claims prove false and unprecedented poverty follows.

When he's caught being anti Semitic he says it's a plot by Jews and Israel to falsely incriminate him and when his mad schemes for pay without work and free everything lead to bankruptcy we can guess that he'll say that's a Jewish conspiracy too.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RonnieBird

Of course it predates Corbyn but the point is that in labour it has an official "volks" Party to attach itself to.
A charismatic but probably insane "leader" who promises impossible wealth to the lowest and most unproductive parts of society and has used procedural blocking tactics to engineer power in the state parliament .
He's already setting the Jews up to absorb the anger when his mad claims prove false and unprecedented poverty follows.

When he's caught being anti Semitic he says it's a plot by Jews and Israel to falsely incriminate him and when his mad schemes for pay without work and free everything lead to bankruptcy we can guess that he'll say that's a Jewish conspiracy too.

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Now you are just making shit up.

That is a ridiculous last post RonnieBird it leads me to wonder if you think Corbyn will do what Edward the 1st ?

Build castles in Wales ? Subdue the Scots ?
Actually of course he did also kill lots of Jews , so I expect that's what you mean.

On the other hand, and knowing that you're a bit of a Welsh nationalist, I wonder whether you fear that he might present a secret love child he's produced with Dianne Abbot and invest him as Prince of Wales ?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eric Cartman

Now you are just making shit up.

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Some might call it speculating based upon the actions of previous nutters when they got power.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RonnieBird

Build castles in Wales ? Subdue the Scots ?
Actually of course he did also kill lots of Jews , so I expect that's what you mean.

On the other hand, and knowing that you're a bit of a Welsh nationalist, I wonder whether you fear that he might present a secret love child he's produced with Dianne Abbot and invest him as Prince of Wales ?

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Unlike you I don't fear a man that has spent his whole political career fighting racism of all kinds.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by trampie09

Unlike you I don't fear a man that has spent his whole political career fighting racism of all kinds.

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I really didn't know that Edward Longshanks did that Trampie .

I heard that Longshanks though that usury was against all the great religions of the world and acted accordingly to protect his people from such practices.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by trampie09

I heard that Longshanks though that usury was against all the great religions of the world and acted accordingly to protect his people from such practices.

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Well he'd be right if he did think that about usury and he certainly used it as an excuse to kill Jews. There's always an excuse, whether it be usury or Zionism.
Actually it as Charles 2 who first allowed usury as we know it today as part of the deal for being financed to take up the English throne.


I'm surprised that you're a so keen on Longshanks though, since he was the first person to think Wales was worth taking and did so.

Its always been the same everybody loves Wales and wants a piece of the country, whether its Longshanks back in the day or the huge amount of white flight good life immigrants in modern times, something like a quarter of the current population of Wales was born in England.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eric Cartman

Now you are just making shit up.

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Surely not. You do know you are talking about the highland laird, friend and adviser of presidents and prime ministers, insider at the BBC, a black belt at dodging guns to the head, the most successful at something or other since Donald Trump claimed to be successful at something or other, and expert on history, painting and decorating and dealing with damp spots. Show some respect! You are just making out that Ronnie is a self-obsessed, bullshitting fantacist, and that can't be right.... can it?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jon1959

Surely not. You do know you are talking about the highland laird, friend and adviser of presidents and prime ministers, insider at the BBC, a black belt at dodging guns to the head, the most successful at something or other since Donald Trump claimed to be successful at something or other, and expert on history, painting and decorating and dealing with damp spots. Show some respect! You are just making out that Ronnie is a self-obsessed, bullshitting fantacist, and that can't be right.... can it?

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He's spent his entire existence dreaming the life. A very fragile ego though so tread carefully

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jon1959

Surely not. You do know you are talking about the highland laird, friend and adviser of presidents and prime ministers, insider at the BBC, a black belt at dodging guns to the head, the most successful at something or other since Donald Trump claimed to be successful at something or other, and expert on history, painting and decorating and dealing with damp spots. Show some respect! You are just making out that Ronnie is a self-obsessed, bullshitting fantacist, and that can't be right.... can it?

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You forgot to mention him being friends with French detectives familiar with the Sala case. All of it is true, mind.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jon1959

Len McCluskey pussyfooting around again:

'Treacherous hypocrite @IanAustin1965 calling for a Tory vote in the general election is no surprise.'

'He turned his back on @UKLabour values many, many years ago.'

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Without wishing to take this thread off on a tangent, good old Red Len pushing for Lexit that will no doubt hurt his membership.

He's fine though with his gold plated pension, the massive cùnt.

Back on track, we are fùcked, aren't we?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by waynekerr55

Without wishing to take this thread off on a tangent, good old Red Len pushing for Lexit that will no doubt hurt his membership.

He's fine though with his gold plated pension, the massive cùnt.

Back on track, we are fùcked, aren't we?

---

You are probably right with the last bit.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jon1959

Surely not. You do know you are talking about the highland laird, friend and adviser of presidents and prime ministers, insider at the BBC, a black belt at dodging guns to the head, the most successful at something or other since Donald Trump claimed to be successful at something or other, and expert on history, painting and decorating and dealing with damp spots. Show some respect! You are just making out that Ronnie is a self-obsessed, bullshitting fantacist, and that can't be right.... can it?

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Well at least I'm not an anti Semite .
Nice try at diverting from some of the stuff you've said , ( and I notice the other one jumps in ). I'm terribly sorry if I've learned anything or done anything in my quite long life, but I'm afraid I have. Maybe I should have sat on my arse, known my place then complained that I only failed because of class prejudice and the Jews .

Once again, you don't address the subject because you can't , so you vomit out a bit more abuse.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Heisenberg

You forgot to mention him being friends with French detectives familiar with the Sala case. All of it is true, mind.

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See, if you do stuff with your life ,you get to know all sorts of people in all sorts of countries. It's ****ing tragic that you can't imagine having enough contacts to call the right people to get the inside track.
Here's something which will blow your little mind, sometimes people call me for similar reasons.

But of course, no one deals with serious stuff because you don't. That's obvious isn't it ?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RonnieBird

Well at least I'm not an anti Semite .
Nice try at diverting from some of the stuff you've said , ( and I notice the other one jumps in ). I'm terribly sorry if I've learned anything or done anything in my quite long life, but I'm afraid I have. Maybe I should have sat on my arse, known my place then complained that I only failed because of class prejudice and the Jews .

Once again, you don't address the subject because you can't , so you vomit out a bit more abuse.

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The only anti-semitic stuff in this thread has come from you. You have made some outrageous claims about anti-semitic views from other posters without any substance at all. You have thrown regular tantrums. You have indulged yourself with lies, distortions, inventions and pathetic wild allegations about the mass social democratic party of the UK being a likely cause of a bloodbath for British Jews. You have claimed that other posters on this board are colluding in this murderous conspiracy that you have dreamt up. It is equally sick and pathetic.

At the same time you have gone with the George Soros international conspiracy (one of the main anti-semitic tropes of our time), you have conflated the views and interests of European Jewish people with those of the Israeli state. You have denounced anti-Zionist Jews and others as anti-semites (although avoided the 'self hating' label that usually comes with it), including those who survived Auchwitz and others who lost their whole families in the holocaust.

Many of the most active opponents of Corbyn and Labour who have weaponised the anti-semitism charges (some of which are genuine and must be stamped out; some of which are false, exaggerated or based on the new definition which makes opposition to Israeli apartheid a sin of anti-semitism) are sharing pickets and platforms with British neo-Nazis (anti-semites themselves but pro Israel) and right wing populists (anti-semites themselves but pro Israel) like Viktor Orban. Kippers like you fit in well.

I'm hoping it's just ignorance that makes you use the term Kippah , or maybe you think it's clever to use a racist term but spell it slightly wrong - intending to claim that it's something to do with UKIP.

Don't project your racism onto others or blame the victims please. Of course I haven't said anything anti Semitic and I've posted numerous links to show that many many Jewish people reject labour, won't vote for them and are considering leaving the country if they were elected. These are facts.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RonnieBird

I'm hoping it's just ignorance that makes you use the term Kippah , or maybe you think it's clever to use a racist term but spell it slightly wrong - intending to claim that it's something to do with UKIP.

Don't project your racism onto others or blame the victims please. Of course I haven't said anything anti Semitic and I've posted numerous links to show that many many Jewish people reject labour, won't vote for them and are considering leaving the country if they were elected. These are facts.

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Kipper is derived from UKIP - as you know. The political viewpoint you display on here most often.

I have no idea what 'Kippah' means. I do know it isn't Kipper.

Your anti-semitic posts and references are there for all to see. As are your hysterical and unfounded attacks on other posters. As I said in an earlier post, if you were a member of the Labour Party saying some of those things you would be suspended!

I don't think any other poster (leaving aside LOM with his 'the Jew' terminology) has said anything that is anti-semitic or racist. If you choose to define anti-Zionism as anti-semitism then hundreds of millions of people (including many Jews) are guilty. But that is like an apologist for South African apartheid calling opposition to race laws and bantustans 'racist'.

Where I do agree with you is when you say a large proportion of the UK Jewish population have rejected the Labour Party and feel concerned. That is no surprise after a 4 year campaign to achieve that end. There is a rise in genuine incidents of anti-semitism in Europe (mainly from the populist right and Islamists) and some incidents of anti-semitism inside the Labour Party (too many but the public perception is not based on the reality). Many of the allegation refer to people on social media who have nothing to do with Labour (e.g. 80% of Margaret Hodge's list) or refer to words or incidents that are not anti-semitic at all. I have referenced some of those cases earlier in the thread (you did not respond). Life long anti-racists have been expelled from Labour but usually for 'bringing the party into disrepute' (embarrassing the party) after the anti-semitism claims were quietly dropped - like Tony Greenstein.

None of this helps the real fight against anti-semitism or the other forms of racism that you have decided are not as important.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jon1959

Kipper is derived from UKIP - as you know. The political viewpoint you display on here most often.

I have no idea what 'Kippah' means. I do know it isn't Kipper.

Your anti-semitic posts and references are there for all to see. As are your hysterical and unfounded attacks on other posters. As I said in an earlier post, if you were a member of the Labour Party saying some of those things you would be suspended!

I don't think any other poster (leaving aside LOM with his 'the Jew' terminology) has said anything that is anti-semitic or racist. If you choose to define anti-Zionism as anti-semitism then hundreds of millions of people (including many Jews) are guilty. But that is like an apologist for South African apartheid calling opposition to race laws and bantustans 'racist'.

Where I do agree with you is when you say a large proportion of the UK Jewish population have rejected the Labour Party and feel concerned. That is no surprise after a 4 year campaign to achieve that end. There is a rise in genuine incidents of anti-semitism in Europe (mainly from the populist right and Islamists) and some incidents of anti-semitism inside the Labour Party (too many but the public perception is not based on the reality). Many of the allegation refer to people on social media who have nothing to do with Labour (e.g. 80% of Margaret Hodge's list) or refer to words or incidents that are not anti-semitic at all. I have referenced some of those cases earlier in the thread (you did not respond). Life long anti-racists have been expelled from Labour but usually for 'bringing the party into disrepute' (embarrassing the party) after the anti-semitism claims were quietly dropped - like Tony Greenstein.

None of this helps the real fight against anti-semitism or the other forms of racism that you have decided are not as important.

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A kippah is a Jewish skullcap Jon. He knows very well what "kipper" means in this context and he knew very well you weren't referencing a skullcap to be provocative or racist in any way.

He may not be anywhere near the sharpest knife in the drawer but he knows when to stir shit up and only because he hasn't the intellectual capacity to debate. He's just a vacuous shell regurgitating the same old dangerous rubbish.

In comes the stalking nutter with a bit of personal abuse. It seems to be saying that whilst he thinks anti semitism isn't dangerous , complaining about it is.
As I said before , it's hardly just me saying this stuff.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by waynekerr55

Without wishing to take this thread off on a tangent, good old Red Len pushing for Lexit that will no doubt hurt his membership.

He's fine though with his gold plated pension, the massive cùnt.

Back on track, we are fùcked, aren't we?

---

good old capitalist hating Len

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...wards-his-flat

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...kers-interests

Quote:

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Originally Posted by life on mars

good old capitalist hating Len

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...wards-his-flat

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...kers-interests

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Like I said, he's fine.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by waynekerr55

Like I said, he's fine.

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The real boss is off again:

In a wide-ranging interview, McCluskey said:

Labour needed to get the election debate off Brexit and on to the day-to-day issues that really mattered to voters.

The shadow cabinet should keep quiet about how it would campaign in the event of another referendum.

(Love this one )
White working-class supporters of leave in the 2016 referendum would be driven into the arms of a hard-right party unless their concerns about migration were dealt with.

There would be no attempt to move Labour back to the centre if the party lost the election.

He predicted paramilitary attacks on UK mainland ports as a result of the customs border down the Irish Sea that forms a key part of Johnson’s Brexit withdrawal deal

Quote:

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Originally Posted by life on mars

The real boss is off again:

In a wide-ranging interview, McCluskey said:

Labour needed to get the election debate off Brexit and on to the day-to-day issues that really mattered to voters.

The shadow cabinet should keep quiet about how it would campaign in the event of another referendum.

(Love this one )
White working-class supporters of leave in the 2016 referendum would be driven into the arms of a hard-right party unless their concerns about migration were dealt with.

There would be no attempt to move Labour back to the centre if the party lost the election.

He predicted paramilitary attacks on UK mainland ports as a result of the customs border down the Irish Sea that forms a key part of Johnson’s Brexit withdrawal deal

---

Some Labour voters are now far right voters and some Conservative voters are now Labour voters.

The three apologists here either deny anti semitism, say it's no big deal or explain that they're just very worried about the Palestinians and Zionism. They absolutely deny that the Nazis were any kind of socialists or that they'd really like to get the Jews.

" I've got nothing against Jews, I just oppose the Israeli state and their unprovoked aggression against the peaceful Palestinisn people"

- that's an old one ! Older than many might know though. I'm pretty sure that this clip is no surprise to any of the three people here to whom I've referred, but it's really worth watching for anyone who didn't know that the Nazis were saying this stuff a long time before they were....https://youtu.be/RfJqsSu1vmU

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RonnieBird

The three apologists here either deny anti semitism, say it's no big deal or explain that they're just very worried about the Palestinians and Zionism. They absolutely deny that the Nazis were any kind of socialists or that they'd really like to get the Jews.

" I've got nothing against Jews, I just oppose the Israeli state and their unprovoked aggression against the peaceful Palestinisn people"

- that's an old one ! Older than many might know though. I'm pretty sure that this clip is no surprise to any of the three people here to whom I've referred, but it's really worth watching for anyone who didn't know that the Nazis were saying this stuff a long time before they were....https://youtu.be/RfJqsSu1vmU

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Aye those peacful Palestinians , and thier rockets,of course they want to live in harmony and if Israel put down all thier weapons and opened thier borders ,peace would be all around .🤔

"The clear and present danger of Labour Anti semitism "

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/po...anti-semitism/

This interesting article highlights exactly the stuff we've read in this thread from the gang of three.

Quote from anybody here saying Palestine is peaceful? The vast majority of Israeli and Palestinian people are peaceful, do you dispute that?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eric Cartman

Quote from anybody here saying Palestine is peaceful? The vast majority of Israeli and Palestinian people are peaceful, do you dispute that?

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Certainly not , what you can see though is people taking sides and as the video shows folks hate those Jews.

And were surprised at there modern day aggression, I guess they don't want a repeat ?

That last video is presented in such a way as its propaganda as Ive heard it said that at least half a million Muslims fought for the Allies in ww2 and that Muslims were fully behind the Allies with only a small percentage of extremists for the other side, as regards the other side Germany was said to have had a big hand in the creation of Israel even without ww2 and that is because throughout the 1930's Hitlers Germany were big supporters of Zionism, Hamburg to Haifa line and all that, where the aims of both perversely coincided.