The Von-Layen Tamer

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Originally Posted by Veg1960

The referendum wasn't carried out in a first past the post basis though was it? The referendum was carried out on a simple majority. A simple majority of people at the last election didn't vote for pro brexit parties, the point you are trying to make doesn't make any sense.

I think it would be as close now as ever it was. People really don't want to change their minds on stuff like this - even when presented with a shit sandwich

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Made me laugh:xmasthumbup:

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Originally Posted by life on mars

Yep so one could argue the passion for that Brexit was still alive and kicking country some 3 years after the 2016 vote, removing the remain arguments that they didn't know what they were voting for.

On a personal level I know 30 people or so who voted leave, not one f them changed their minds through the last 4 years, in fact it hardened.

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Name them

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Originally Posted by jeepster

Made me laugh:xmasthumbup:

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If only it was funny!:xmasayatollah:

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Originally Posted by life on mars

Yep so one could argue the passion for that Brexit was still alive and kicking country some 3 years after the 2016 vote, removing the remain arguments that they didn't know what they were voting for.

On a personal level I know 30 people or so who voted leave, not one f them changed their minds through the last 4 years, in fact it hardened.

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I can well believe that their minds are very hard indeed.

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Originally Posted by delmbox

Name them

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sleepy, dock dave dozy beaky dancer prancer vixen donner. Should I go on? :xmashehe:

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Originally Posted by MOZZER2

hilts agree a buffoon the worse PM in my lifetime but didn't its own party vote him in after Mays attempt failed in the brexit talks ?

don't think the public had a say

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They did . In December 2019

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Originally Posted by xsnaggle

sleepy, dock dave dozy beaky dancer prancer vixen donner. Should I go on? :xmashehe:

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You missed out Mick and Tich

And it's Dave Dee

And don't forget Dasher,Blitzen,Cupid and Rudolph

And then there's Uncle Tom Cobley and all.

Think the all covers it really!

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Originally Posted by xsnaggle

But the labour party in government has treated them no better. They take the welsh votes as if they own them by right and do nothing. None of them are much different. That said you cannot know what the present government will be like until the either do or fail to do something.

As for people being 'tricked' and 'duped', they have had 3 years or more of people like you telling them, screaming it from the rooftops and demanding a new vote and they still voted for it in Dec 19. Maybe they aren't as stupid as you think they are. You only think they are because you disagree with them. If the vote in favour of "getting it done" in December was reflected in the original referendum vote the remainers, myself included, would have been crushed.

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I don’t know what Labour have got to do with it it’s why I said successive governments. They’ve all been terrible for wales, wales were lucky to have had the eu funding.

I don’t discuss anything or scream anything with brexiteers because as this thread is shown they didn’t even know what they wanted and now are delighted with the shit we’ve ended up with. There is no logic to it, they were duped into voting for it and won’t change their mind what ever happens.

What the **** does getting it done even mean?! We’ve just ended up with being in a very similar position but with a worse trade deal with the people we do the majority of our trading with :hehe:

As soon as I hear “getting it done”, “sovereignty” and “brexit means brexit” I know there’s no point continuing the discussion because that person had shown they don’t really know what they voted for.

People won’t ever admit it but what we voted on wasn’t defined enough. There’s no way anyone with a brain would have voted for what we’ve ended up with.

I suppose unless they hate foreigners enough to **** the economy for it.

I can’t believe people are happy with the last 5 years, 100s of companies have left the U.K. we’ve lost jobs and about £15billion a year from the economy. And now we are being told to wait and see how it’ll affect us :hehe:

We’ve had a year to make deals and haven’t managed to negotiate one better than what we previously had.

One more question what laws are people looking forward to that we couldn’t make before?

Capital Economics are about at the top of the game when it comes to forecasting on issues such at the one being debated on this thread

It looks like its going to be a piss show

Those with money will always be OK

But those areas that had eu funding ?

Turn off the lights

I didn't vote to leave , those that did and don't have a bit tucked away will see the results of their actions before long

A festering boil on the arse of the tory party was stroked by farage and Cameron shat his pants

Giving this country a referendum to leave a huge single market then piss about for 4 years kissing arse to have some sort of kiss and make up is just the start

Welcome to hell

Abandon hope all who enter here

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

We’ve just ended up with being in a very similar position but with a worse trade deal with the people we do the majority of our trading with

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Where are the benefits coming from, who is going to benefit? This isn't "leave", it's just moving out of the mansion to live in the shed

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Originally Posted by Talksport

Easy answer to your question Eric, is vote to scrap WP. Let's be run from Westminster, whoever is in Govt.

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I'll agree to that on these conditions.

Wales, Scotland and Northern Irish MPs have equal say on all matters. When it comes to a vote, each country's MPs combined will have 25% share.

If Welsh MPs want to do something in Wales that England might not like, as long as there's a majority within Welsh MPs for it, their bill is passed in Wales.

Happy? Thought not.

The flooding of Trederwen was agreed in Westminster but all Welsh MPs voted against it. Was that a good deal for Wales? Of course not. Any time there is potential conflict in the house between Wales and England, England will win every time. Are you happy with that? I'm not. Not at all.

In a referendum, as long as 59% of England votes one way, it can override the other countries voting 100% the other way. Is that a good deal for Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland? Of course it isn't.

Because England is a far bigger country in terms of population than the rest, it is able to dictate to the others what happens. I don't agree with that. I would hope that all proper Welshmen would be against such things as well.

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Originally Posted by xsnaggle

Whatever. It's done. now we have to make it work.

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No, now the Government has to make it work. All we do is what we always do - go to work, pay the bills. I'm not going to work any harder for some theoretical notion that people make things work.

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

As soon as I hear “getting it done”, “sovereignty” and “brexit means brexit” I know there’s no point continuing the discussion because that person had shown they don’t really know what they voted for.

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Three. Word. SLOGANS.

People are too busy talking about rubbish ballroom dancers and even rubbisher singers on X Factor to concentrate or digest anything longer.

BREXIT MEANS BREXIT
WIN BACK CONTROL
CONTROL OUR BORDERS
GET IT DONE

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Originally Posted by Allez Allez Allez

Three. Word. SLOGANS.

People are too busy talking about rubbish ballroom dancers and even rubbisher singers on X Factor to concentrate or digest anything longer.

BREXIT MEANS BREXIT
WIN BACK CONTROL
CONTROL OUR BORDERS
GET IT DONE

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Sounds like Warnock on the touchline during our Premier League season.

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Originally Posted by Des Parrot

Where are the benefits coming from, who is going to benefit? This isn't "leave", it's just moving out of the mansion to live in the shed

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Unless of course there's abuse going on in the mansion and it's toxic you may be better off in the shed.:hehe:

This man saw Brexit coming way back in 2002


https://youtu.be/irH6iCLTRME

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

Sounds like Warnock on the touchline during our Premier League season.

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And my god do we need that spirit now .

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Originally Posted by life on mars

And my god do we need that spirit now .

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the spirit that got us relegated?

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Originally Posted by life on mars

And my god do we need that spirit now .

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What spirit?

The country is broken.

It may just be me, but if you think I'm going "to put my shoulder to the wheel" to get behind Farage, Tommy Robinson, Rees Mogg and Jim Davidson's vision of the future of the country, you are going to have a long wait

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

I'll agree to that on these conditions.

Wales, Scotland and Northern Irish MPs have equal say on all matters. When it comes to a vote, each country's MPs combined will have 25% share.

If Welsh MPs want to do something in Wales that England might not like, as long as there's a majority within Welsh MPs for it, their bill is passed in Wales.

Happy? Thought not.

The flooding of Trederwen was agreed in Westminster but all Welsh MPs voted against it. Was that a good deal for Wales? Of course not. Any time there is potential conflict in the house between Wales and England, England will win every time. Are you happy with that? I'm not. Not at all.

In a referendum, as long as 59% of England votes one way, it can override the other countries voting 100% the other way. Is that a good deal for Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland? Of course it isn't.

Because England is a far bigger country in terms of population than the rest, it is able to dictate to the others what happens. I don't agree with that. I would hope that all proper Welshmen would be against such things as well.

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Do you mean the flooding of Capel Celyn??

And why put that ridiculous last sentence in?

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Originally Posted by xsnaggle

lets see what this westminster government does to keep those votes blue instead of red. We may be pleasantly surprised.

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Alternatively, they may think they have a mandate to move further to the right. That would be very scary.

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Originally Posted by Elwood Blues

Do you mean the flooding of Capel Celyn??

And why put that ridiculous last sentence in?

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Because I'd be amazed at any Welshmen who would happily see Wales have less say in our affairs. Would you happily overturn devolution and put Wales in a position where we could be outvoted time and again on things if it didn't suit the English?

Thinking about another thing, most of those who would welcome an end to devolution seem to be right wing Tory voters. Would they all welcome an end to the Senedd if Labour kept winning UK general elections and the Conservatives held constant power in Wales?

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

Thinking about another thing, most of those who would welcome an end to devolution seem to be right wing Tory voters. Would they all welcome an end to the Senedd if Labour kept winning UK general elections and the Conservatives held constant power in Wales?

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They either hate the poor and hate the Welsh or are too stupid to see the consequences of their actions.

Wales will be the biggest loser of brexit, it’s hardly in a good state as it is, especially outside of Cardiff.

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Originally Posted by Veg1960

What spirit?

The country is broken.

It may just be me, but if you think I'm going "to put my shoulder to the wheel" to get behind Farage, Tommy Robinson, Rees Mogg and Jim Davidson's vision of the future of the country, you are going to have a long wait

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Same here. I already work hard just to keep the bills paid. Working "harder" to "make this work" is for the bird brains who actually think that's how it works.

We are all in this together now brexit has been done

Especially those who went to Eton

Boris and his chums are going to look after grimsby and the valleys , make no mistake

And now its back to top topless darts at Roehampton!

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

We are all in this together now brexit has been done

Especially those who went to Eton

Boris and his chums are going to look after grimsby and the valleys , make no mistake

And now its back to top topless darts at Roehampton!

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well his his chums in Grimsby and the valleys can have there say , in fact Wales has a chance in May to do that .

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Originally Posted by life on mars

well his his chums in Grimsby and the valleys can have there say , in fact Wales has a chance in May to do that .

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Well we all know that because Boris has .....got brexit done ......eventually even its a piss deal .......that the people who voted for it will think what a guy and vote for him when the time comes ........but the forecast is they have shat on their own doorstep so how long they will remain loyal remains to be seen

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

Well we all know that because Boris has .....got brexit done ......eventually even its a piss deal .......that the people who voted for it will think what a guy and vote for him when the time comes ........but the forecast is they have shat on their own doorstep so how long they will remain loyal remains to be seen

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In the North its a strange landscape politically they see the Labour Party as Londoncentric and being abandoned,
it will be tough for Sir Kier to connect with them as they see him coming from an elite background, as you say time will tell .

I wonder which way Sir Kier will jump when the vote comes ,there are rumblings in the party asking how he could possibly back a Boris deal , if he abstains he's seen as fence sitting , if he votes against it the North won't like him , no where to turn?

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Originally Posted by life on mars

In the North its a strange landscape politically they see the Labour Party as Londoncentric and being abandoned,
it will be tough for Sir Kier to connect with them as they see him coming from an elite background, as you say time will tell .

I wonder which way Sir Kier will jump when the vote comes ,there are rumblings in the party asking how he could possibly back a Boris deal , if he abstains he's seen as fence sitting , if he votes against it the North won't like him , no where to turn?

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I don’t think labour will get back in ever again, only some sort of pact with SNP or DUP but I can’t see them returning a majority, they’re a spent force.

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Originally Posted by Whisperer

I don’t think labour will get back in ever again, only some sort of pact with SNP or DUP but I can’t see them returning a majority, they’re a spent force.

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That's a tough ask pacts with DUP and SNP we know they will want blood, especially the Sturgeon

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Originally Posted by life on mars

That's a tough ask pacts with DUP and SNP we know they will want blood, especially the Sturgeon

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DUP and Labour??? Highly unlikely


And the SNP would demand too high a price

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Originally Posted by life on mars

In the North its a strange landscape politically they see the Labour Party as Londoncentric and being abandoned,
it will be tough for Sir Kier to connect with them as they see him coming from an elite background, as you say time will tell .

I wonder which way Sir Kier will jump when the vote comes ,there are rumblings in the party asking how he could possibly back a Boris deal , if he abstains he's seen as fence sitting , if he votes against it the North won't like him , no where to turn?

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I don't think much of starmer if I am honest

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Originally Posted by Whisperer

I don’t think labour will get back in ever again, only some sort of pact with SNP or DUP but I can’t see them returning a majority, they’re a spent force.

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Many said the same about the Tories in 1997 when they suffered several landslides in succession. Swings and roundabouts. I think much of it is due to the popularity of the person in charge to middle England.

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Originally Posted by Whisperer

I don’t think labour will get back in ever again, only some sort of pact with SNP or DUP but I can’t see them returning a majority, they’re a spent force.

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for those of us that don't and will never vote Conservative there needs to be a progressive middle ground political party to represent the majority of the British public , generally only around a third of the country vote tory , the problem for those of us who don't is that infighting within Labour, liberals etc fecks it up

Plaid talk a good game but labours biggest screw up was losing all those seats to the krankies

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

for those of us that don't and will never vote Conservative there needs to be a progressive middle ground political party to represent the majority of the British public , generally only around a third of the country vote tory , the problem for those of us who don't is that infighting within Labour, liberals etc fecks it up

Plaid talk a good game but labours biggest screw up was losing all those seats to the krankies

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Yep I agree sludge it’s definitely time for a new party.

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

Many said the same about the Tories in 1997 when they suffered several landslides in succession. Swings and roundabouts. I think much of it is due to the popularity of the person in charge to middle England.

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True Eric....but Scotland has fallen which makes it a lot different than 1997.

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Originally Posted by Whisperer

True Eric....but Scotland has fallen which makes it a lot different than 1997.

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Wouldn't have made any difference in 1997, but in these days where there's not a huge difference in the vote, it does make a difference.