Songs Of Praise

[QUOTE=SLUDGE FACTORY;5169289]

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Originally Posted by Gofer Blue

No problem

The bible , which is a series of writing sometimes hundreds of years after this Jesus bloke died on the cross , is give or take about 2000 years old now

Nothing that is written in the bible has proved to be a fact

But 2000 years after the death , or apparent death , of someone called Jesus, who its never been proven actually existed ...I think he was probably a hippy anarchist type bloke who was kind .........people still live their lives on this Bible

Considering we have been here a long long time as a species as has the planet and we have science , education and progress I think its worrying that people put their faith in a bloke who existed 2000 years ago . And that's just one bloke and his old man .

What about the person who invented the first vaccine against covid ? Shouldn't we be praising him or her ?

Or did God do that ?

Or the person who invented the processed , preserved food shipped to the starving in Africa, saving millions of lives

Or did God do that ?

If he's that powerful why didn't he stop the drought in the first place in Ethiopia that led to the famine in the first place ?

Christians have an excuse for everything and an answer for nothing

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Interesting debate and your views and those of Heisenberg is proof indeed that humans have the free will that God graced us with. Your comments about Jesus surprise me as your birth is measured by the days and years since his birth. A person that was so insignificant, according to you, that the world counts time by him.

Whether you believe in God or not the immense order and interdependence of species on earth indicates that it came about by more that chance chaos.

Personally I believe that God created heaven and earth and all things visible and invisible. In his creation is the blueprint for everything. There are some certainties, ...'from ash we came and to ash we will return', and that applies to all life.

I have a good mate a very famous scientist. He was the first person to discover a drug to successfully treat what was, not so long ago, a disease that killed a lot of people. Did he discover something 'new' in the sense that it didn't exist before? No, it was there in God's blueprint and he found out how to use it to help mankind. You could say the same about science and Covid vaccines

I mention balance and interdependence in life and the comments you and others have made questioning why God did not get rid of Covid, or save ill children, or feed the hungry. It's hard to take but how can he? The answers are in our hands not his. Divine intervention might be the answer you want to hear but there will be consequences in changing the blueprint of nature We see it ourselves in what we do to this planet, be it climate change, or war, or insecticides killing bees and affecting plant pollination..we are screwing up the blueprint that keeps everything in balance.

And finally there is the assumption that God has it all his own way as long as it's good. Sounds a bit dramatic but there are good and evil forces in this world and they compete for supremacy. There are the same forces in every human being and we only need to look through a newspaper of history book to see for ourselves.
But, for sure God is there to support you if you ask him and he will never turn his back on you, even if you turn your back on him

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Originally Posted by RonnieBird

That takes us to the conclusion that we might as well be the most sucessful predator we can during our brief period of consciousness.
If you start with this well meaning intent though, that's probably not a bad thing

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There's actually nothing wrong with trying to live a good life without doing so to ensure successful passage to an afterlife.

N[QUOTE=lisvaneblue;5169305]

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

Interesting debate and your views and those of Heisenberg is proof indeed that humans have the free will that God graced us with. Your comments about Jesus surprise me as your birth is measured by the days and years since his birth. A person that was so insignificant, according to you, that the world counts time by him.

Whether you believe in God or not the immense order and interdependence of species on earth indicates that it came about by more that chance chaos.

Personally I believe that God created heaven and earth and all things visible and invisible. In his creation is the blueprint for everything. There are some certainties, ...'from ash we came and to ash we will return', and that applies to all life.

I have a good mate a very famous scientist. He was the first person to discover a drug to successfully treat what was, not so long ago, a disease that killed a lot of people. Did he discover something 'new' in the sense that it didn't exist before? No, it was there in God's blueprint and he found out how to use it to help mankind. You could say the same about science and Covid vaccines

I mention balance and interdependence in life and the comments you and others have made questioning why God did not get rid of Covid, or save ill children, or feed the hungry. It's hard to take but how can he? The answers are in our hands not his. Divine intervention might be the answer you want to hear but there will be consequences in changing the blueprint of nature We see it ourselves in what we do to this planet, be it climate change, or war, or insecticides killing bees and affecting plant pollination..we are screwing up the blueprint that keeps everything in balance.

And finally there is the assumption that God has it all his own way as long as it's good. Sounds a bit dramatic but there are good and evil forces in this world and they compete for supremacy. There are the same forces in every human being and we only need to look through a newspaper of history book to see for ourselves.
But, for sure God is there to support you if you ask him and he will never turn his back on you, even if you turn your back on him

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You make the mistake of referring to natural selection as chance chaos. It is not. Darwin’s great work has nothing to do with chance and subsequent discoveries ( Crick and Watson and DNA ) have proved conclusively that there is no longer a debate worth having between creationism and evolution. Membership of the Flat Earth Society has also been dwindling in recent times and the Catholic Church issued a grovelling apology some time ago to Galileo for suggesting the Earth went round the sun and not vice versa.
You also make the mistake of stating that we are endowed with free will. This is as big a delusion as belief in God. We are merely products of luck and decisions that we may make are determined by myriads of factors that impose upon us. Try telling the child born with an incurable congenital disease that it has free will.
There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever for the existence of God. Remember that where you are born will, in most cases, determine which God you follow be it Allah, Jehovah, Shiva, Jesus, Zoroaster, Buddha and the thousands of Gods prevalent in all corners of the Earth. This is obviously not a matter of free will but engineered by man. It is all made up just like the lunatic conception of original sin and redemption.

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And finally there is the assumption that God has it all his own way as long as it's good. Sounds a bit dramatic but there are good and evil forces in this world and they compete for supremacy. There are the same forces in every human being and we only need to look through a newspaper of history book to see for ourselves.
But, for sure God is there to support you if you ask him and he will never turn his back on you, even if you turn your back on him

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I think you're confusing god with starwars.

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I mention balance and interdependence in life and the comments you and others have made questioning why God did not get rid of Covid, or save ill children, or feed the hungry. It's hard to take but how can he? The answers are in our hands not his. Divine intervention might be the answer you want to hear but there will be consequences in changing the blueprint of nature We see it ourselves in what we do to this planet, be it climate change, or war, or insecticides killing bees and affecting plant pollination..we are screwing up the blueprint that keeps everything in balance.

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Doesn't sound like the behaviour of an omnipotent god. Mad that his blueprints involves kids dying and being raped by priests.

A question I'd be interested in hearing an answer to is this, "if God created everything how did the devil get created then"? A fallen angel but surely if God created everything he would have made it perfectly?!

One of the many questions I've wanted to ask for years but logical questions were a no no in a strict religious household.

[QUOTE=lisvaneblue;5169305]

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

Interesting debate and your views and those of Heisenberg is proof indeed that humans have the free will that God graced us with. Your comments about Jesus surprise me as your birth is measured by the days and years since his birth. A person that was so insignificant, according to you, that the world counts time by him.

Whether you believe in God or not the immense order and interdependence of species on earth indicates that it came about by more that chance chaos.

Personally I believe that God created heaven and earth and all things visible and invisible. In his creation is the blueprint for everything. There are some certainties, ...'from ash we came and to ash we will return', and that applies to all life.

I have a good mate a very famous scientist. He was the first person to discover a drug to successfully treat what was, not so long ago, a disease that killed a lot of people. Did he discover something 'new' in the sense that it didn't exist before? No, it was there in God's blueprint and he found out how to use it to help mankind. You could say the same about science and Covid vaccines

I mention balance and interdependence in life and the comments you and others have made questioning why God did not get rid of Covid, or save ill children, or feed the hungry. It's hard to take but how can he? The answers are in our hands not his. Divine intervention might be the answer you want to hear but there will be consequences in changing the blueprint of nature We see it ourselves in what we do to this planet, be it climate change, or war, or insecticides killing bees and affecting plant pollination..we are screwing up the blueprint that keeps everything in balance.

And finally there is the assumption that God has it all his own way as long as it's good. Sounds a bit dramatic but there are good and evil forces in this world and they compete for supremacy. There are the same forces in every human being and we only need to look through a newspaper of history book to see for ourselves.
But, for sure God is there to support you if you ask him and he will never turn his back on you, even if you turn your back on him

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A wise and uplifting post in the face of determined denial.

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Personally I believe that God created heaven and earth and all things visible and invisible.

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So god did create lukemia for kids then?

Bit off like.

My general view of religion/god stuff is if it makes you happy, you need it etc then crack on, enjoy. It’s only when they try and push their often bizarre views on people it bothers me....just leave it, enjoy it, but leave me out of it.

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

So god did create lukemia for kids then?

Bit off like.

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I'll leave it to someone much more eloquent than me to explain my point of view.

https://youtu.be/-suvkwNYSQo

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

It's funny how scientology is openly mocked because it's a "made up" religion, other than being modern how is it any different from any of the others?

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There is a saying that says something like if you experience a hallucination you are considered to be wacko but if you can convince enough other people that you saw it, it can become classified as a religion.

[QUOTE=RonnieBird;5169345]

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Originally Posted by lisvaneblue

A wise and uplifting post in the face of determined denial.

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It is neither wise nor uplifting. There is not the slightest shred of evidence for the existence of a God.

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Originally Posted by goats

My general view of religion/god stuff is if it makes you happy, you need it etc then crack on, enjoy. It’s only when they try and push their often bizarre views on people it bothers me....just leave it, enjoy it, but leave me out of it.

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It is morally indefensible to believe in something that is manifestly untrue because it makes you feel good.

[QUOTE=pomeroy;5169359]

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Originally Posted by RonnieBird

It is neither wise nor uplifting. There is not the slightest shred of evidence for the existence of a God.

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I believe in talking polka-dot cabbages riding three-headed manitees made of marshmallow. Try disproving their existence.
You can't - so perhaps you need to reconsider your attitude about such things, pomeroy.

[QUOTE=pomeroy;5169312]N

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Originally Posted by lisvaneblue

You make the mistake of referring to natural selection as chance chaos. It is not. Darwin’s great work has nothing to do with chance and subsequent discoveries ( Crick and Watson and DNA ) have proved conclusively that there is no longer a debate worth having between creationism and evolution. Membership of the Flat Earth Society has also been dwindling in recent times and the Catholic Church issued a grovelling apology some time ago to Galileo for suggesting the Earth went round the sun and not vice versa.
You also make the mistake of stating that we are endowed with free will. This is as big a delusion as belief in God. We are merely products of luck and decisions that we may make are determined by myriads of factors that impose upon us. Try telling the child born with an incurable congenital disease that it has free will.
There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever for the existence of God. Remember that where you are born will, in most cases, determine which God you follow be it Allah, Jehovah, Shiva, Jesus, Zoroaster, Buddha and the thousands of Gods prevalent in all corners of the Earth. This is obviously not a matter of free will but engineered by man. It is all made up just like the lunatic conception of original sin and redemption.

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Crick did not prove conclusively in the way you say. Crick said that Darwin's work coupled with Gregor Mendel work indicated how life was created. Mendel was a Christian and an Abbott at a priory in , I think, Germany.

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Originally Posted by pomeroy

It is morally indefensible to believe in something that is manifestly untrue because it makes you feel good.

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They believe it’s all true though like a few in this thread

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Originally Posted by pomeroy

It is morally indefensible to believe in something that is manifestly untrue because it makes you feel good.

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You mean like watching Eastenders?

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Originally Posted by lisvaneblue

You mean like watching Eastenders?

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Only if you thinks that the characters in Eastenders are real

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Originally Posted by lisvaneblue

You mean like watching Eastenders?

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Watching Eastenders makes you feel good???? It’s wrist slashing TV....... Kevin’s safe in Coronation St though, that’s uplifting:thumbup:

[QUOTE=Taunton Blue Genie;5169378]

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Originally Posted by pomeroy

I believe in talking polka-dot cabbages riding three-headed manitees made of marshmallow. Try disproving their existence.
You can't - so perhaps you need to reconsider your attitude about such things, pomeroy.

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The onus of proof is on you to prove that the things you refer to do in fact exist. I don’t have to prove that they don’t exist. End of story.

[QUOTE=lisvaneblue;5169398]

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Originally Posted by pomeroy

N

Crick did not prove conclusively in the way you say. Crick said that Darwin's work coupled with Gregor Mendel work indicated how life was created. Mendel was a Christian and an Abbott at a priory in , I think, Germany.

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Crick and Watson filled in the gaps in Darwin’s work and established conclusively the concept of hereditary genetics by science based experimentation. I suggest reading Dawkins’ “ The Selfish Gene”. Mendel’s great work was largely ignored due to hysteria about Darwin.
He was indeed a monk in Germany.

[QUOTE=RonnieBird;5169345]

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Originally Posted by lisvaneblue

A wise and uplifting post in the face of determined denial.

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The denial has always come from Christians and its here again

There is evidence that if you have a broken leg , the doctors can either operate to fix it or put it in a cast and it will slowly heal

Clear evidence , based on science

If you break your leg and don't get it treated you will end up with a deformed leg and a life of pain

This isn't down to free will , divine intervention or fairies at the bottom of the garden

Christians are always asked the basic question .......please provide evidence of the existence of God.......not quotes from the bible ......thats not evidence ......there are loads of versions of the bible written in different languages by different blokes , at different times , thats no proof of God

Please provide evidence of the existence of God, of evidence of a god made action or miracle or whatever

Anything at all

Not god is there for you or you must repent etc , does he exist ?

[QUOTE=SLUDGE FACTORY;5169458]

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Originally Posted by RonnieBird

The denial has always come from Christians and its here again

There is evidence that if you have a broken leg , the doctors can either operate to fix it or put it in a cast and it will slowly heal

Clear evidence , based on science

If you break your leg and don't get it treated you will end up with a deformed leg and a life of pain

This isn't down to free will , divine intervention or fairies at the bottom of the garden

Christians are always asked the basic question .......please provide evidence of the existence of God.......not quotes from the bible ......thats not evidence ......there are loads of versions of the bible written in different languages by different blokes , at different times , thats no proof of God

Please provide evidence of the existence of God, of evidence of a god made action or miracle or whatever

Anything at all

Not god is there for you or you must repent etc , does he exist ?

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Surely, as a belief, Christianity and other religions rely on what people believe, rather than being dependent on proof?

You believed Willie Boland was a great midfielder.....

[QUOTE=Eric the Half a Bee;5169460]

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

Surely, as a belief, Christianity and other religions rely on what people believe, rather than being dependent on proof?

You believed Willie Boland was a great midfielder.....

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:hehe::hehe:

[QUOTE=Taunton Blue Genie;5169378]

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Originally Posted by pomeroy

I believe in talking polka-dot cabbages riding three-headed manitees made of marshmallow. Try disproving their existence.
You can't - so perhaps you need to reconsider your attitude about such things, pomeroy.

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You refer to the invisible pineapple theory of course.

[QUOTE=SLUDGE FACTORY;5169458]

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Originally Posted by RonnieBird

The denial has always come from Christians and its here again

There is evidence that if you have a broken leg , the doctors can either operate to fix it or put it in a cast and it will slowly heal

Clear evidence , based on science

If you break your leg and don't get it treated you will end up with a deformed leg and a life of pain

This isn't down to free will , divine intervention or fairies at the bottom of the garden

Christians are always asked the basic question .......please provide evidence of the existence of God.......not quotes from the bible ......thats not evidence ......there are loads of versions of the bible written in different languages by different blokes , at different times , thats no proof of God

Please provide evidence of the existence of God, of evidence of a god made action or miracle or whatever

Anything at all

Not god is there for you or you must repent etc , does he exist ?

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I can do that actually and maybe I will one of these days but it's a very detailed and complicated logic which I'm not inclined to set down here for various reasons , but mostly because those who could learn from it are so very convinced of their present beliefs that they'd dismiss if without even trying to understand and I'd be wasting a lot of time explaining it.

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Originally Posted by RonnieBird

I can do that actually and maybe I will one of these days but it's a very detailed and complicated logic which I'm not inclined to set down here for various reasons , but mostly because those who could learn from it are so very convinced of their present beliefs that they'd dismiss if without even trying to understand and I'd be wasting a lot of time explaining it.

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I have got a girlfriend but she's goes to another school so you wouldn't know her.

[QUOTE=pomeroy;5169436]

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

The onus of proof is on you to prove that the things you refer to do in fact exist. I don’t have to prove that they don’t exist. End of story.

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Whoosh

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Originally Posted by Heisenberg

What I am is resentful of a large percentage of religious people turning their eyes away from some of the facts that they don't wish to face because it doesn't suit their argument.

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Confirmation bias and cognitive dissonance have a lot to answer for when it comes to religious beliefs.

[QUOTE=Eric the Half a Bee;5169460]

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

Surely, as a belief, Christianity and other religions rely on what people believe, rather than being dependent on proof?

You believed Willie Boland was a great midfielder.....

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Thats my very point

I believe willie boland was a great midfielder but he was a good championship level player and no more than that

But I can prove that by the evidence , factual evidence , that he played at championship level for Cardiff City

That , is a fact

As is the fact that if I don't put petrol in my car it won't go anywhere

And if my heart stops beating and the medical people cannot get it going , I snuff it

Fact

I always ask Christian people for one simple fact that proves that God is not a belief like my Willie is the best player ever belief ......its one fecking tiny simple indisputable fact that God, their God, exists

One fact , they have had years

And plenty of time on this thread

But they can't because its impossible to find facts about something that exists in peoples imagination

They can say they KNOW God exists but I can say I know Liz Hurley thinks about me a lot but if I am asked to prove it , I can't

Because its bollocks

[QUOTE=RonnieBird;5169465]

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

I can do that actually and maybe I will one of these days but it's a very detailed and complicated logic which I'm not inclined to set down here for various reasons , but mostly because those who could learn from it are so very convinced of their present beliefs that they'd dismiss if without even trying to understand and I'd be wasting a lot of time explaining it.

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give it a go

[QUOTE=Eric the Half a Bee;5169460]

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

Surely, as a belief, Christianity and other religions rely on what people believe, rather than being dependent on proof?

You believed Willie Boland was a great midfielder.....

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I believe that Cardiff City are top of the Premiership and will win this year’s Champions League. My belief in this doesn’t make it true even you could see the logic in this.

The one that i believe is missing from this thread is a middle ground. There is some leeway with faith, that may not be the case at the top of the tree, or amongst the most hard line believers, but what is important is that most people who do have a confidence in god are not hard line, they question plenty of things that are purportedly sent from god, or gods will. They are moderate people who take what they need from their belief system, as and when, it seems that some people in this thread can't quite understand that and are going to extremes to get their point across.

Faith is many different things to many different people. Political belief plays a part in how it is interpreted, outlook on life, characteristics and personality, as well as financial, personal situation and education levels. It isn't a system where everyone believes in fairies or the day of reckoning. It's also cultural, so people will believe in certain gods etc based on the environment that they were born in and nurtured towards, how else is it supposed to happen.

I'm not religious, i don't believe in a god, but this perception that those that do are at the extreme end of the scale in their beliefs, characteristics etc, just isn't true. Although it's a decent argument to make if you want to draw a line in the sand and take aim.

God, if you're listening, please sort out the quote function for these fecking heathens.

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Originally Posted by Heisenberg

God, if you're listening, please sort out the quote function for these fecking heathens.

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🤣🤣

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Originally Posted by Heisenberg

God, if you're listening, please sort out the quote function for these fecking heathens.

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God does not want Blasphemy repeated. His work is done my child.

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

The one that i believe is missing from this thread is a middle ground. There is some leeway with faith, that may not be the case at the top of the tree, or amongst the most hard line believers, but what is important is that most people who do have a confidence in god are not hard line, they question plenty of things that are purportedly sent from god, or gods will. They are moderate people who take what they need from their belief system, as and when, it seems that some people in this thread can't quite understand that and are going to extremes to get their point across.

Faith is many different things to many different people. Political belief plays a part in how it is interpreted, outlook on life, characteristics and personality, as well as financial, personal situation and education levels. It isn't a system where everyone believes in fairies or the day of reckoning. It's also cultural, so people will believe in certain gods etc based on the environment that they were born in and nurtured towards, how else is it supposed to happen.

I'm not religious, i don't believe in a god, but this perception that those that do are at the extreme end of the scale in their beliefs, characteristics etc, just isn't true. Although it's a decent argument to make if you want to draw a line in the sand and take aim.

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Absolutely.

I'd add that if it gives people strength in times of difficulty, gives people hope when there appears to be little, gives people a spiritual level they feel they need, gives them a purpose they lacked, how can we say it's a bad thing?

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

Absolutely.

I'd add that if it gives people strength in times of difficulty, gives people hope when there appears to be little, gives people a spiritual level they feel they need, gives them a purpose they lacked, how can we say it's a bad thing?

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I think that people can say what they like, Eric. What needs to be taken into consideration is that the 'membership' certainly doesn't represent the most brutal, hardline aspects of religion, it's not even close in my opinion. That's an important aspect in this debate, although ignored. The subject is very complex.

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

Absolutely.

I'd add that if it gives people strength in times of difficulty, gives people hope when there appears to be little, gives people a spiritual level they feel they need, gives them a purpose they lacked, how can we say it's a bad thing?

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Well, it’s the cause of most wars for starters.

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Originally Posted by Heisenberg

God, if you're listening, please sort out the quote function for these fecking heathens.

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It's like they've all attended a course run by splott parker over the weekend or something

[QUOTE=delmbox;5169538]It's like they've all attended a course run by splott parker over the weekend or something

Shame I missed it. Is he running another one?