MY CITY MY SHIRT

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

I was living in Bradford at the time, the worst violence the city had ever seen according to the telegraph and argus in the days following the game .

I went into Bradford interchange to meet a mate off the train from Leeds, couldn't get anywhere near it , cardiffs train lot turned up and it was carnage , a huge bloke came up to me and said get out of town , cardiff are here . I said I am cardiff . He said , stick with us we are going to sort Bradford and Leeds out so I said cheers mate but I have to go to the cashpoint .

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Mothercare shut was it? :hehe:

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

I was on that train :hehe:

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this lot were serious loonies

There was a pub on the left of the hill as you walk to valley parade

That was demolished

What kind of kick do people get out of that ?

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Originally Posted by valleys caveman

Mothercare shut was it? :hehe:

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Don't come that with me

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Originally Posted by J R Hartley

Fair enough. I travelled a couple of times with the Rams where that type of behaviour was pretty normal. It’s like some people are let out for the day without their carer and go bananas.

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There you go then. I can assure you that in the 70’s and 80’s particularly but also into the 90’s, there was racist behaviour going on both inside and outside the grounds by City fans. Monkey noises, throwing bananas, chants of you black b****** at players, using the N word, shouting a derogatory German word for black person at individual players, gangs of City supporters wandering around away towns looking for Asian people to beat up etc. This was in addition to general levels of violence towards the police and away fans (and sometimes between themselves !). It was not a pleasant atmosphere at all and led me to stop going away eventually. A reputation like that takes a very long time to go away and it is no wonder that Black and Asian people especially are still reluctant to come along. It is totally different now thank god, due to work by the club, fans groups, Police and football authorities but there is still some work to be done obviously.

What utter bollox. Having a few morons who can’t hold their beer and use racist language is one thing, but suggesting Cardiff had a hooligan element who seeked out black or Asian supporters to dish out violence, im sorry but that’s utter, utter bollox.

Some of the main players in the Soul Crew in the 80s and 90s were black lads.

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Originally Posted by J R Hartley

What utter bollox. Having a few morons who can’t hold their beer and use racist language is one thing, but suggesting Cardiff had a hooligan element who seeked out black or Asian supporters to dish out violence, im sorry but that’s utter, utter bollox.

Some of the main players in the Soul Crew in the 80s and 90s were black lads.

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You go from denying it ever happened at all, to trying to make out that it was an isolated few and that there was no violence or racism involved. Well, I am telling you that I saw it and heard it and you admit that you weren't even following City at the time. Once again you think that only your opinion is valid and that you know everything. Well sorry to burst your bubble, you obviously aren't as clever as you think. You toddle along believing what you like. The longer people like you do that, the less likely it is that the problem will ever be fully and finally solved.

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Originally Posted by dml1954

You go from denying it ever happened at all, to trying to make out that it was an isolated few and that there was no violence or racism involved. Well, I am telling you that I saw it and heard it and you admit that you weren't even following City at the time. Once again you think that only your opinion is valid and that you know everything. Well sorry to burst your bubble, you obviously aren't as clever as you think. You toddle along believing what you like. The longer people like you do that, the less likely it is that the problem will ever be fully and finally solved.

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We have had some idiots following us over the years and a minority of our fans have racist views and some have acted those views out

But groups of Cardiff fans travelling to say Birmingham with the intent of confronting Black and Asian people ?

No , I am sorry that is incorrect . I have no doubt and have witnessed racist behaviour from Cardiff fans from time to time but not organised racist gang attacks .

Banging the windows on a coach at Asian people is pathetic behaviour and embarrassing but travelling to another city to attack ethnic minority people ?

Thats not happened

Good discussion about this on the latest A Bit of Swazz podcast

https://twitter.com/SwazzPod/status/...417874432?s=20

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

We have had some idiots following us over the years and a minority of our fans have racist views and some have acted those views out

But groups of Cardiff fans travelling to say Birmingham with the intent of confronting Black and Asian people ?

No , I am sorry that is incorrect . I have no doubt and have witnessed racist behaviour from Cardiff fans from time to time but not organised racist gang attacks .

Banging the windows on a coach at Asian people is pathetic behaviour and embarrassing but travelling to another city to attack ethnic minority people ?

Thats not happened

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Sorry but yes it has. In the late 70’s, 80’s and early 90’s I used to go to every home game and about 8 or 9 away games a season, mainly around London or up North, because I lived away from South Wales for work. I would usually go by car and made a point of never going in the City fans section as I actually wanted to watch the football and avoid any trouble. I would either go in one if the main grandstands or possibly in the family area of the home fans. I would park away from the ground and walk to it. In those days it was easy to pay on the gate or buy a ticket on the day. Walking to the grounds I witnessed all sorts of things, including groups of Cardiff fans wandering around causing trouble both verbally and physically. Intimidating local residents and yes attacking small or larger groups of mainly Asian youths for no good reason. It is true that there were black ‘kids’ in the Cardiff hardcore ‘fans’ around that time but anyone who thinks that Black and Asian youths had any respect or liking for each other or avoided confrontation with each other in those times would be sadly deluded. The atmosphere within grounds had an under current of racism to it as well with the chanting and shouting. We certainly weren't the worst in this respect but definitely achieved a reputation which is proving very difficult to shake off. Things nowadays are totally different and I haven't witnessed anything that I would call racist or serious violence for probably well over 15 years. This is mainly due to actions the club, football league and police have taken, especially since we moved stadiums.

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Originally Posted by dml1954

Sorry but yes it has. In the late 70’s, 80’s and early 90’s I used to go to every home game and about 8 or 9 away games a season, mainly around London or up North, because I lived away from South Wales for work. I would usually go by car and made a point of never going in the City fans section as I actually wanted to watch the football and avoid any trouble. I would either go in one if the main grandstands or possibly in the family area of the home fans. I would park away from the ground and walk to it. In those days it was easy to pay on the gate or buy a ticket on the day. Walking to the grounds I witnessed all sorts of things, including groups of Cardiff fans wandering around causing trouble both verbally and physically. Intimidating local residents and yes attacking small or larger groups of mainly Asian youths for no good reason. It is true that there were black ‘kids’ in the Cardiff hardcore ‘fans’ around that time but anyone who thinks that Black and Asian youths had any respect or liking for each other or avoided confrontation with each other in those times would be sadly deluded. The atmosphere within grounds had an under current of racism to it as well with the chanting and shouting. We certainly weren't the worst in this respect but definitely achieved a reputation which is proving very difficult to shake off. Things nowadays are totally different and I haven't witnessed anything that I would call racist or serious violence for probably well over 15 years. This is mainly due to actions the club, football league and police have taken, especially since we moved stadiums.

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you are saying gangs of Cardiff city fans went to away matches and targeted people from black and Asian backgrounds to attack them ?

No chance

Cardiff fans would attack anyone , I would agree with that and some still do , but we don't have a combat 18 type fringe

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

you are saying gangs of Cardiff city fans went to away matches and targeted people from black and Asian backgrounds to attack them ?

No chance

Cardiff fans would attack anyone , I would agree with that and some still do , but we don't have a combat 18 type fringe

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I think you are being a bit pedantic here. It makes no difference if they went away planning to look for groups of black or Asian people to attack or whether they came across them during the general desire to cause problems. It would still be racially motivated targeting and assault. Either could be true. All I know is it happened and what we are discussing is the reasons why people from ethnic minority groups obviously find it difficult to support or watch Cardiff City. My opinion is that an important part of this is the history and reputation (no longer deserved) our fans have for causing problems and not making these groups feel welcome.

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

you are saying gangs of Cardiff city fans went to away matches and targeted people from black and Asian backgrounds to attack them ?

No chance

Cardiff fans would attack anyone , I would agree with that and some still do , but we don't have a combat 18 type fringe

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He’s just making it up as he goes along mun.

First they were targeting blacks, then when it’s put to him City’s main hooligan element included black lads they were actually targeting Asians instead and now it transpires they weren’t specifically targeting either of these races they just may have come across them when causing trouble in general. :hehe: :hehe:

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Originally Posted by dml1954

I think you are being a bit pedantic here. It makes no difference if they went away planning to look for groups of black or Asian people to attack or whether they came across them during the general desire to cause problems. It would still be racially motivated targeting and assault. Either could be true. All I know is it happened and what we are discussing is the reasons why people from ethnic minority groups obviously find it difficult to support or watch Cardiff City. My opinion is that an important part of this is the history and reputation (no longer deserved) our fans have for causing problems and not making these groups feel welcome.

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Cardiff City , like a lot of football clubs were once white , working class domains

Arsenal , Spurs etc always had a mixed following , also west ham

But even in cities like Birmingham and Leeds , there was a right wing element

We have a small minority of idiots but the main reason why there are not many black or Asian faces at cardiff city is that the club has never reached out for support. If the club expects its traditional fan base of Cardiff, the valleys , Bridgend to just turn up , you be assured its got to put a lot of effort into attracting others

My view is that if a black bloke works on a project to embrace the history of the city of Cardiff and it involves a city shirt painted on a prominent place the club should be fully behind it , not hiding and talking of reverse racism

I fundamentally disagree with your account of past idiotic actions . If I go to my neighbour who is Indian and punch him in the face because he has parked his van in my drive , I will be charged with assault . If I punch him and call him a greasy Indian immigrant then its racially motivated .

When Cardiff city played Birmingham in 1995 Cardiff fans arrived at New Street station in late morning looking for hooligans from the Birmingham City zulu gang to fight. The zulus were a mixed race football gang of all colours and if Cardiff fans were racist and looking for black guys to attack they should have just stopped the train and fought amongst themselves as plenty of black hooligans supporting Cardiff were at St Andrews that day

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

Cardiff City , like a lot of football clubs were once white , working class domains

Arsenal , Spurs etc always had a mixed following , also west ham

But even in cities like Birmingham and Leeds , there was a right wing element

We have a small minority of idiots but the main reason why there are not many black or Asian faces at cardiff city is that the club has never reached out for support. If the club expects its traditional fan base of Cardiff, the valleys , Bridgend to just turn up , you be assured its got to put a lot of effort into attracting others

My view is that if a black bloke works on a project to embrace the history of the city of Cardiff and it involves a city shirt painted on a prominent place the club should be fully behind it , not hiding and talking of reverse racism

I fundamentally disagree with your account of past idiotic actions . If I go to my neighbour who is Indian and punch him in the face because he has parked his van in my drive , I will be charged with assault . If I punch him and call him a greasy Indian immigrant then its racially motivated .

When Cardiff city played Birmingham in 1995 Cardiff fans arrived at New Street station in late morning looking for hooligans from the Birmingham City zulu gang to fight. The zulus were a mixed race football gang of all colours and if Cardiff fans were racist and looking for black guys to attack they should have just stopped the train and fought amongst themselves as plenty of black hooligans supporting Cardiff were at St Andrews that day

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As an 18 year old on one of his first away day’s travelling by train that day was quite the eye opener

I sent an email to the club. If you feel strongly about this I suggest you do the same.

My email..

As a lifelong Cardiff City fan I am absolutely appalled by the negative, incoherent and ultimate lack of engagement and support with Yusuf Ismael and his My City My Shirt campaign.

Like many city fans my family is diverse and Yusuf has created an amazing innovative campaign that links minorities with the club.

To hear the club was unwilling to support Yusuf is quite frankly prehistoric. Furthermore, the excuse the club made to not support Yusuf verges on the ridiculous, pandering to a tiny minority of white nationalists whose attitudes are quite frankly not even welcome at a club.

The vast majority of city fans respect and welcome diversity. The fan base live in a vibrant, tolerant and diverse city - it's a shame that the decision makers at the club do not see this and are living in the past.

Hopefully this was a misstep and an oversight. I would strongly encourage the club to reconsider the lack of support to Yusuf, who represents the best of city fans.

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Originally Posted by AfricanBluebird

I sent an email to the club. If you feel strongly about this I suggest you do the same.

My email..

As a lifelong Cardiff City fan I am absolutely appalled by the negative, incoherent and ultimate lack of engagement and support with Yusuf Ismael and his My City My Shirt campaign.

Like many city fans my family is diverse and Yusuf has created an amazing innovative campaign that links minorities with the club.

To hear the club was unwilling to support Yusuf is quite frankly prehistoric. Furthermore, the excuse the club made to not support Yusuf verges on the ridiculous, pandering to a tiny minority of white nationalists whose attitudes are quite frankly not even welcome at a club.

The vast majority of city fans respect and welcome diversity. The fan base live in a vibrant, tolerant and diverse city - it's a shame that the decision makers at the club do not see this and are living in the past.

Hopefully this was a misstep and an oversight. I would strongly encourage the club to reconsider the lack of support to Yusuf, who represents the best of city fans.

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Has anyone who e mailed the club yet had a reply, as opposed to an acknowledgment of receipt? I’ve had neither so far.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

Has anyone who e mailed the club yet had a reply, as opposed to an acknowledgment of receipt? I’ve had neither so far.

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No.

This has made me really mad.

I could probably think of only one or two city fans who would take offence at this campaign (you'll find them on the other message board).. so it's a complete own goal by the club.

I’ve just had the acknowledgement, no reply as such.

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Originally Posted by AfricanBluebird

No.

This has made me really mad.

I could probably think of only one or two city fans who would take offence at this campaign (you'll find them on the other message board).. so it's a complete own goal by the club.

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Agreed, I’ve not listened to the podcast yet, maybe that will get a reaction from them?

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

Cardiff City , like a lot of football clubs were once white , working class domains

Arsenal , Spurs etc always had a mixed following , also west ham

But even in cities like Birmingham and Leeds , there was a right wing element

We have a small minority of idiots but the main reason why there are not many black or Asian faces at cardiff city is that the club has never reached out for support. If the club expects its traditional fan base of Cardiff, the valleys , Bridgend to just turn up , you be assured its got to put a lot of effort into attracting others

My view is that if a black bloke works on a project to embrace the history of the city of Cardiff and it involves a city shirt painted on a prominent place the club should be fully behind it , not hiding and talking of reverse racism

I fundamentally disagree with your account of past idiotic actions . If I go to my neighbour who is Indian and punch him in the face because he has parked his van in my drive , I will be charged with assault . If I punch him and call him a greasy Indian immigrant then its racially motivated .

When Cardiff city played Birmingham in 1995 Cardiff fans arrived at New Street station in late morning looking for hooligans from the Birmingham City zulu gang to fight. The zulus were a mixed race football gang of all colours and if Cardiff fans were racist and looking for black guys to attack they should have just stopped the train and fought amongst themselves as plenty of black hooligans supporting Cardiff were at St Andrews that day

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When I am seeing a group of Cardiff City fans attacking groups of Asian youths in succession for no apparent reason and chanting racist insults in the progress, I don't stop and try to analyse whether they planned to do it before they left Cardiff or did it on the spur of the moment whilst they were marauding around the streets of the away town. It makes no difference anyway, either way it is still racially motivated assault. I never said there was incidence of attacks on black people. I was aware that a number of our hooligans were black (as far as I know none were of Asian descent) and what I witnessed in my travels were mainly attacks on Asian people. The things that I witnessed against black people from our fans were mainly verbal or provocation in grounds, not fights outside. There was a lot of antagonism and rivalry between Black and Asian people in those days and I guess that fuelled the situations I saw. The black members of our hooligan gangs would have been more than keen to ‘take on’ any Asians they came across as a result. Perhaps they were leading it - who knows. I agree over the mural being nothing but a good thing by the way but see it from the clubs point of view as well. They have done a lot of good things in the community in recent years.

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Originally Posted by AfricanBluebird

I sent an email to the club. If you feel strongly about this I suggest you do the same.

My email..

As a lifelong Cardiff City fan I am absolutely appalled by the negative, incoherent and ultimate lack of engagement and support with Yusuf Ismael and his My City My Shirt campaign.

Like many city fans my family is diverse and Yusuf has created an amazing innovative campaign that links minorities with the club.

To hear the club was unwilling to support Yusuf is quite frankly prehistoric. Furthermore, the excuse the club made to not support Yusuf verges on the ridiculous, pandering to a tiny minority of white nationalists whose attitudes are quite frankly not even welcome at a club.

The vast majority of city fans respect and welcome diversity. The fan base live in a vibrant, tolerant and diverse city - it's a shame that the decision makers at the club do not see this and are living in the past.

Hopefully this was a misstep and an oversight. I would strongly encourage the club to reconsider the lack of support to Yusuf, who represents the best of city fans.

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Very well put. The excuse that this campaign may put off ‘the fan base’ is extraordinary and yes, probably having the minority loons we all know about in mind. Disgusting to be honest.

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Originally Posted by J R Hartley

As an 18 year old on one of his first away day’s travelling by train that day was quite the eye opener

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The walk back to the station was interesting

Unsurprisingly, Blakey didn’t hold back in the podcast where the person behind the My City, My Shirt project repeated the reverse racism comment - that allegation has been in the public domain for some time now and the lack of a denial from the club in that time rather proves a point surely.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

Has anyone who e mailed the club yet had a reply, as opposed to an acknowledgment of receipt? I’ve had neither so far.

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Not a peep

WOL have given it serious coverage! :thumbup:

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/w...g-new-20308377

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Originally Posted by delmbox

Not a peep

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Not sure who you have emailed but I have had cause in the past to email the club but I found an email for Mehmet Dalman and emailed him direct - in fairness he came back fairly quickly with a considered response 👍

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

Cardiff City , like a lot of football clubs were once white , working class domains

Arsenal , Spurs etc always had a mixed following , also west ham

But even in cities like Birmingham and Leeds , there was a right wing element

We have a small minority of idiots but the main reason why there are not many black or Asian faces at cardiff city is that the club has never reached out for support. If the club expects its traditional fan base of Cardiff, the valleys , Bridgend to just turn up , you be assured its got to put a lot of effort into attracting others

My view is that if a black bloke works on a project to embrace the history of the city of Cardiff and it involves a city shirt painted on a prominent place the club should be fully behind it , not hiding and talking of reverse racism

I fundamentally disagree with your account of past idiotic actions . If I go to my neighbour who is Indian and punch him in the face because he has parked his van in my drive , I will be charged with assault . If I punch him and call him a greasy Indian immigrant then its racially motivated .

When Cardiff city played Birmingham in 1995 Cardiff fans arrived at New Street station in late morning looking for hooligans from the Birmingham City zulu gang to fight. The zulus were a mixed race football gang of all colours and if Cardiff fans were racist and looking for black guys to attack they should have just stopped the train and fought amongst themselves as plenty of black hooligans supporting Cardiff were at St Andrews that day

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I followed Cardiff home and away during the late 70s through to the late 80s and can honestly say I have never seen any racially targeted violence - basically just a bunch of dick heads looking for trouble and being indiscriminate ironically at who the target was including trying to fight their own fans if they came across them in an away game and wasn't sure where they were from (personal experience twice)

The saddest thing for me is that a really good opportunity to increase the reach of the club and extend its fan base is being lost and this thread has highlighted the impact that hooligans have had and are still having on this club as it is still being discussed not only by us but by others about our club.

How long will it take for our club to lose this shameful tag??

What I didn't realise is that this project is even bigger than I thought. I posted photos of the street-art in Butetown but there are posters all over the city! I'm not kidding, this kind of publicity would cost a fortune if organised through a PR company.

I'm even more annoyed now. I haven't received any reply from the club yet. My other half is mailing everyone she can find a contact for as I'm doubtful many of the senior management team (or players) know/knew about this (which is ironic).

I can't believe we've scored such an own goal. It's enbarassing.

Here's a link to how big this is https://bricksmagazine.co.uk/2020/11...m-in-football/

For information re earlier discussion and poster's comments - here's a link to Cardiff City's Diversity & Equality page and on this page is a link to our Diversity & Equality policy https://www.cardiffcityfc.co.uk/club/diversity-equality

Just to clarify, the steet-art in Butetown is the latest installment and has only just gone up - the street-posters, as far as I know, aren't up anymore.

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Originally Posted by Citizen's Nephew

What I didn't realise is that this project is even bigger than I thought. I posted photos of the street-art in Butetown but there are posters all over the city! I'm not kidding, this kind of publicity would cost a fortune if organised through a PR company.

I'm even more annoyed now. I haven't received any reply from the club yet. My other half is mailing everyone she can find a contact for as I'm doubtful many of the senior management team (or players) know/knew about this (which is ironic).

I can't believe we've scored such an own goal. It's enbarassing.

Here's a link to how big this is https://bricksmagazine.co.uk/2020/11...m-in-football/

For information re earlier discussion and poster's comments - here's a link to Cardiff City's Diversity & Equality page and on this page is a link to our Diversity & Equality policy https://www.cardiffcityfc.co.uk/club/diversity-equality

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I can, the club are consistently good at being bad at marketing

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

Unsurprisingly, Blakey didn’t hold back in the podcast where the person behind the My City, My Shirt project repeated the reverse racism comment - that allegation has been in the public domain for some time now and the lack of a denial from the club in that time rather proves a point surely.

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The artist said it was a woman. I can only think of two people it might have been.

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Originally Posted by Citizen's Nephew

What I didn't realise is that this project is even bigger than I thought. I posted photos of the street-art in Butetown but there are posters all over the city! I'm not kidding, this kind of publicity would cost a fortune if organised through a PR company.

I'm even more annoyed now. I haven't received any reply from the club yet. My other half is mailing everyone she can find a contact for as I'm doubtful many of the senior management team (or players) know/knew about this (which is ironic).

I can't believe we've scored such an own goal. It's enbarassing.

Here's a link to how big this is https://bricksmagazine.co.uk/2020/11...m-in-football/

For information re earlier discussion and poster's comments - here's a link to Cardiff City's Diversity & Equality page and on this page is a link to our Diversity & Equality policy https://www.cardiffcityfc.co.uk/club/diversity-equality

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Have you got a e mail to where we can ask if the club can get on board with this fantastic project ?

If they just ignore us then we can at least say please drop that diversity statement, its complete bullshit

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Originally Posted by Nobody's Rep

Not sure who you have emailed but I have had cause in the past to email the club but I found an email for Mehmet Dalman and emailed him direct - in fairness he came back fairly quickly with a considered response 👍

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whats his email ?

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

Have you got a e mail to where we can ask if the club can get on board with this fantastic project ?

If they just ignore us then we can at least say please drop that diversity statement, its complete bullshit

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On this page Sludge are three relevant emails (I don't want to post them on here) - they're under:

Contact Us (which is a catch-all club email I've used previously and marked FAO insert name and title

Fan Engagement i.e. the Fan Engagement Officer (her name and email is there)

Community Foundation (their email is there too),

https://www.cardiffcityfc.co.uk/club/visit-contact-us

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Originally Posted by jon1959

WOL have given it serious coverage! :thumbup:

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/w...g-new-20308377

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It is a decent article fair play, if a little economical with the truth as to the club reasons. I'm guessing they want to keep their full allocation of press passes and privileges though :sherlock::hehe:

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Originally Posted by J R Hartley

You don’t even know if this was the person who said it but why wait for confirmation before you and others start a witch hunt and character assignation on the young girl.

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Hi, just to clarify, there's no doubt as to origin of the quote 'reverse racism' which is what this discussion should be all about. The article in https://bricksmagazine.co.uk/2020/11...m-in-football/ written by Prishita Maheshwari-Aplin is comprehensive and cites the job title of the person Yusuf had a meeting with and as I've said, I spoke to him personally the other day - so, as I've stated earlier, I'm satisfied as to the source.

I made a point in my first post of not wanting to name anyone - my fear being that this is not a place for doing so and neither should we be personalising the issue. This is a Cardiff City FC issue and it is for them to address it.

Let's not lose ourselves in side-issues when we should be focussing on the missed opportunities and the fact that the club clearly needs to engage and discuss with creatives like Yusuf and the local community in a more informed and contemporary fashion.

I've removed the posts where names were mentioned and some crappy comments made.

Apologies. Still shameful from the club though.

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Originally Posted by Freitag 4.17

Apologies. Still shameful from the club though.

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let's hope the reasonable and constructive e mails are listened to

If they are not and nothing is done we will know that the club is not paying lip service to the issue of inclusion , its actively acting against it

If thats the case then its time to question ones loyalty to CCFC

I think in life you have morals and principles and if CCFC just brush this vital issue away then I will support the team but not the club