FT: CARDIFF CITY 1 - 1 BARNSLEY

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Originally Posted by Rjk

that's because he's not a full back, he's a wing back

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Who is meant to be ahead of the centre circle when their centre half has the ball?
You do realise they have to defend too?

Watch it again. He is woefully out of position.

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Originally Posted by Porth Pouncer

I think the Bacuna experiment could work. He was given licence to roam and did give the defenders the run around at times. His lack of experience in that position led to him being offside too often.

However he needs to be fed by decent balls, not this aerial pinball rubbish. I’d play him there again against Sutton.

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There are things, like anticipation, that can't be taught. I don't dislike Bacuna as a CM and he seems a decent person as well. But an attacking player he is not, nor never will be. All opinions of course.

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Originally Posted by blue lewj

Who is meant to be ahead of the centre circle when their centre half has the ball?
You do realise they have to defend too?

Watch it again. He is woefully out of position.

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Either we are paying with wing backs or we aren't. If we are they need to push up, and when they do somebody has to cover them.

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Originally Posted by dembethewarrior

Either we are paying with wing backs or we aren't. If we are they need to push up, and when they do somebody has to cover them.

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There is pushing up on the flank when we are attacking and there is being woefully out of position when the other team have slowed the game down at the back. This was the latter.

He is infield, almost in line with the centre circle when Barnsley have the ball. I don't care what style of wing back he is. He should not be that far away regardless of who is covering him.

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Originally Posted by blue lewj

There is pushing up on the flank when we are attacking and there is being woefully out of position when the other team have slowed the game down at the back. This was the latter.

He is infield, almost in line with the centre circle when Barnsley have the ball. I don't care what style of wing back he is. He should not be that far away regardless of who is covering him.

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Aye. OK.

You'll never see TAA Robertson and the like out of position. They all beam me up scotty back to their defensive positions after attacking.

We won't agree so let's leave it there.

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Originally Posted by dembethewarrior

Aye. OK.

You'll never see TAA Robertson and the like out of position. They all beam me up scotty back to their defensive positions after attacking.

We won't agree so let's leave it there.

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You're comparing Bagan and Robertson?

Yeah, similar players.....

A diagonal ball from a centre half should not result in a winger running directly at and getting a shot on goal. If we don't sort that out then it is going to be a very long season.

Apparently for some messing about infield and being oblivious to the winger in acres of space is good wingback play.

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Originally Posted by Michael Morris

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">7⃣<br><br>Rest in peace, Peter.<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/CityAsOne?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#CityA sOne</a> | <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/YouReds?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#YouReds </a> <a href="https://t.co/yqBn1y0AzE">pic.twitter.com/yqBn1y0AzE</a></p>&mdash; Barnsley FC (@BarnsleyFC) <a href="https://twitter.com/BarnsleyFC/status/1424010102177210368?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 7, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

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Great picture Mike

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Originally Posted by blue lewj

You're comparing Bagan and Robertson?

Yeah, similar players.....

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The positions they play, yes.

Like I said, we won't agree so why keep on, but you do anyway don't you :hehe:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xULE9vHAYs

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Originally Posted by dembethewarrior

The positions they play, yes.

Like I said, we won't agree so why keep on, but you do anyway don't you :hehe:

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In tomorrows installment of Dembe compares random players, Marlon Pack and Pirlo...

Not a bad game thought we should have one easily with missed chances compared to them ,:

Giles has good quality .
Pack was excellent today he is so mercurial.
Collins looks a good robust Champinship player .
McGuinness had a strong debut .
Nelson, Flint looked strong.
Bacuna must be cursing his final touch as he had a good all round game outside of the misses.
Not seen replay of our disallowed goal I thought he'd just got back onside before scoring?.
Phillip a safe pair of hands again .

If Barnsley are going to be a threat (then so are we ) with Mozza, Moore, Colwill, Murphy, Tomlin ,Vaulks to come in

Some people are blaming Bagan for their goal, but isn't Collins the player out of position?

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Originally Posted by blue lewj

In tomorrows installment of Dembe compares random players, Marlon Pack and Pirlo...

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You're trying to be like JR now. Stop it, it doesn't suit you.

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Originally Posted by LeningradCowboy

Some people are blaming Bagan for their goal, but isn't Collins the player out of position?

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:hehe: yes about 60 yards

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Originally Posted by dembethewarrior

You're trying to be like JR now. Stop it, it doesn't suit you.

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You're the one who started comparing footballers at different ends of the footballing spectrum.

Robertson and Bagan indeed.

Any chance you could post a link to a goal where Robertson is as far out of position as Bagan was yesterday to prove your comparison point?

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Originally Posted by LeningradCowboy

Some people are blaming Bagan for their goal, but isn't Collins the player out of position?

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Collins?

Bagan was so far out of position Giles manages to get closer to the Barnsley winger before he shoots. That is Giles the winger getting closer than the apparently not out of position Bagan.

Im pretty sure if Robertson was out of position like that then Alison saves that shot comfortably.

Cracking save 1st half but Phillips should be saving that

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Originally Posted by Hilts

Im pretty sure if Robertson was out of position like that then Alison saves that shot comfortably.

Cracking save 1st half but Phillips should be saving that

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Phillips should save it but doesn't.

He should not be getting a clear shot off though for the reasons given above. Somebody should at least be in with some chance of getting goal side. Very poor goal to concede.

If Bagan is dragged in field like that without any of the back three seemingly spotting the danger either then it is a worry.

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Originally Posted by blue lewj

Collins?

Bagan was so far out of position Giles manages to get closer to the Barnsley winger before he shoots. That is Giles the winger getting closer than the apparently not out of position Bagan.

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It was their centre-back who scored. He started his run about 20 yards inside their half.

Bagan was marking his opposite wing-back (their number 7).

Giles is number 26 and got nowhere near the goal scorer. It was Collins who chased back.

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Originally Posted by LeningradCowboy

It was their centre-back who scored. He started his run about 20 yards inside their half.

Bagan was marking his opposite wing-back (their number 7).

Giles is number 26 and got nowhere near the goal scorer. It was Collins who chased back.

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He took up the position of a winger. My mistake.
And it is Collins that I thought was Giles but it doesn't change me point.

A striker reacting to the movement of an opposition player down the wing more than a wing back on that side? Does that seem right to you?

I'm all for looking after your man but if he wants to go into the centre he is somebody else's man. Let him go. If Bagan does this he defends the goal better. He is out of position and should be alive to players, whatever their position, coming down his flank.

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Originally Posted by blue lewj

You're comparing Bagan and Robertson?

Yeah, similar players.....

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I think the keeper has to take some of the blame for the goal, shouldn't have been beaten from a shot from there.

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Originally Posted by Rjk

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I'm not sure I agree on how high up the pitch he is.
Him being 5 yards inside the Barnsley half following his man and a good 15 yards ahead of our deepest defenders (as well as being so far infield) effectively makes up the Barnsley man's mind to make the run and also makes the ball played to him the obvious one. It creates acres of space. If Bagan let's the winger go for his wander, sits a little deeper and further to the sideline then it puts doubt in the head of the man making the run and isn't such an obvious ball. He might even cut it out if it is played.

I agree on the learning from the mistake though.
I can't think this won't be something obvious that they work on from the game video given the manner of the goal. As you say if he sees that situation unfold again and is more disciplined in holding a better position then that's all you can ask.

Does anyone know what Bacuna's role was at Groningen where he scored most of his goals? He's scored 3 for us in 95 apparently but I honestly can't remember any of them. I think Mick's got this one wrong and it needs to stop or there'll be tears.

Hopefully we'll start with more than 2 offensive minded players in future games and Bacuna should never play in that position ever again. He's a defensive midfielder and will never be an attack minded one.

However the blame lands squarely on McCarthy not Bacuna as he picks and sets up the team.

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Originally Posted by Citizen's Nephew

Does anyone know what Bacuna's role was at Groningen where he scored most of his goals? He's scored 3 for us in 95 apparently but I honestly can't remember any of them. I think Mick's got this one wrong and it needs to stop or there'll be tears.

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it seems he's always been a bit of a utility player, even back to his time at Groningen.
they did play him as an attacking midfielder at times

There's a whole host of errors that led to that goal, just blaming Bagan is unfair imo. Yes, he's followed his man inside (probably too far), but had he kept his width then odds are people would complain at Bagan's man being given too much space in midfield. For some reason Bacuna had vacated the left flank which allowed such a huge run, hence Collins being the one chasing back. Pack, our experience sitting midfielder, decided to go on a mad rampage and was miles out of position (this seems to be a feature of our play, I don't really get why we send the slow midfielder to close down, but whatever), leaving an ocean of space behind him which McGuinness (I think) went to fill. Suddenly Barnsley have acres of space. Flint & Nelson, being the experienced defenders they are, probably should have shuffled across to fill the space but didn't. What was particularly infuriating is that Barnsley took an age to play the ball wide and half the Canton Stand were screaming for someone to fill the huge gap in our defence, but it just didn't happen. It was really poor by the whole team and probably indicative of a team who haven't properly practiced pressing as a team, they're all over the place.

On the other hand, it was very clever play from Barnsley to pull us onto them like that, create a gap and exploit it, but it was far too easy.

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Originally Posted by City123

There's a whole host of errors that led to that goal, just blaming Bagan is unfair imo. Yes, he's followed his man inside (probably too far), but had he kept his width then odds are people would complain at Bagan's man being given too much space in midfield. For some reason Bacuna had vacated the left flank which allowed such a huge run, hence Collins being the one chasing back. Pack, our experience sitting midfielder, decided to go on a mad rampage and was miles out of position (this seems to be a feature of our play, I don't really get why we send the slow midfielder to close down, but whatever), leaving an ocean of space behind him which McGuinness (I think) went to fill. Suddenly Barnsley have acres of space. Flint & Nelson, being the experienced defenders they are, probably should have shuffled across to fill the space but didn't. What was particularly infuriating is that Barnsley took an age to play the ball wide and half the Canton Stand were screaming for someone to fill the huge gap in our defence, but it just didn't happen. It was really poor by the whole team and probably indicative of a team who haven't properly practiced pressing as a team, they're all over the place.

On the other hand, it was very clever play from Barnsley to pull us onto them like that, create a gap and exploit it, but it was far too easy.

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:thumbup:

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Originally Posted by jon1959

Is the Leo 'fox in the box' Bacuna experiment now over?

I like Bacuna - but not as a right back or a second striker. He is a box-to-box midfielder.

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I rate Bacuna too. As you say though, he's a midfielder. And quite a competent one at this level.

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Originally Posted by dembethewarrior

He's got to do better when he has the ball.

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I thought he played very well. It's should imagine it's pretty hard to find a pass when everyone turns their back and runs away. No one is making themselves available. If one of our players wins the ball in midfield, it immediately gets lumped upfield into a channel. If we're lucky, there might be someone there. If we're very lucky, that player might be aware of what's coming. And if we're luckier still they might even get the ball.

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Originally Posted by NYCBlue

I thought he played very well. It's should imagine it's pretty hard to find a pass when everyone turns their back and runs away. No one is making themselves available. If one of our players wins the ball in midfield, it immediately gets lumped upfield into a channel. If we're lucky, there might be someone there. If we're very lucky, that player might be aware of what's coming. And if we're luckier still they might even get the ball.

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Ralls found Bacuna with one pass yesterday. I just hate this hook it in the air malarkey before they even think to bring the ball down to control it. Its not that he hasn't got a pass, he doesn't know if he has yet as the ball never gets brought into his control to look for a pass, he just hooks it upfield. Saw it a number of times.

Remember going at Gunnar for doing the same against Derby in the promotion year, all it did was lose us the ball. It riles me.

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Originally Posted by City123

There's a whole host of errors that led to that goal, just blaming Bagan is unfair imo. Yes, he's followed his man inside (probably too far), but had he kept his width then odds are people would complain at Bagan's man being given too much space in midfield. For some reason Bacuna had vacated the left flank which allowed such a huge run, hence Collins being the one chasing back. Pack, our experience sitting midfielder, decided to go on a mad rampage and was miles out of position (this seems to be a feature of our play, I don't really get why we send the slow midfielder to close down, but whatever), leaving an ocean of space behind him which McGuinness (I think) went to fill. Suddenly Barnsley have acres of space. Flint & Nelson, being the experienced defenders they are, probably should have shuffled across to fill the space but didn't. What was particularly infuriating is that Barnsley took an age to play the ball wide and half the Canton Stand were screaming for someone to fill the huge gap in our defence, but it just didn't happen. It was really poor by the whole team and probably indicative of a team who haven't properly practiced pressing as a team, they're all over the place.

On the other hand, it was very clever play from Barnsley to pull us onto them like that, create a gap and exploit it, but it was far too easy.

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As you say, a host of errors. But why the **** didn't Nelson try to make a play on that ball? It was definitely playable but he just stood there like a statue. For me, he is the biggest culprit.

Nah biggest culprit is the keeper.

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Originally Posted by Rjk

it seems he's always been a bit of a utility player, even back to his time at Groningen.
they did play him as an attacking midfielder at times

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Thanks! :thumbup:

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Originally Posted by NYCBlue

As you say, a host of errors. But why the **** didn't Nelson try to make a play on that ball? It was definitely playable but he just stood there like a statue. For me, he is the biggest culprit.

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looks like he thinks about going for it and then pulls away, as though he was worried about an OG

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Originally Posted by City123

There's a whole host of errors that led to that goal, just blaming Bagan is unfair imo. Yes, he's followed his man inside (probably too far), but had he kept his width then odds are people would complain at Bagan's man being given too much space in midfield. For some reason Bacuna had vacated the left flank which allowed such a huge run, hence Collins being the one chasing back. Pack, our experience sitting midfielder, decided to go on a mad rampage and was miles out of position (this seems to be a feature of our play, I don't really get why we send the slow midfielder to close down, but whatever), leaving an ocean of space behind him which McGuinness (I think) went to fill. Suddenly Barnsley have acres of space. Flint & Nelson, being the experienced defenders they are, probably should have shuffled across to fill the space but didn't. What was particularly infuriating is that Barnsley took an age to play the ball wide and half the Canton Stand were screaming for someone to fill the huge gap in our defence, but it just didn't happen. It was really poor by the whole team and probably indicative of a team who haven't properly practiced pressing as a team, they're all over the place.

On the other hand, it was very clever play from Barnsley to pull us onto them like that, create a gap and exploit it, but it was far too easy.

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I think that the easiest way to look at is that both Collins and Bagan were out of position. Bagan reacted to Collins getting caught ball watching and having zero awareness of what is going on around him. Bagan Should've probably called Collins and told him to get back in, although he doesn't because he's inexperienced and making Collins poor play his problem. Bagans's natural position for that play would probably be half way between the man Collins should've picked up and the player who made the run, albeit, a little deeper.