Official Ashes Thread

You just dont get away with the amount of mistakes England made in this Test against a side of Australias quality.

They really should have won.

Australia will get better. I think England need a couple of changes. 1 they wont make and thats Foakes behind the stumps.

The only change will be Wood probably for Broad.

Moeens ability to bowl long overs in a Test has to be questioned. I really dont know who is good enough to come in though.

Thought the bowling was average especially with the new ball

As much as I thought Stokes shouldn't have declared when he did, it's the missed chances that cost England the game.
Great stuff though.

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Originally Posted by fugsyphil

Thought the bowling was average especially with the new ball

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It was ok. Dead wicket. One paced attack. Pity Archer and Stone are injured because I think they are protecting Wood. He has to play 2nd Test though. Its a must win.

After Robinson's antics and the constant monotonous droning of that 'we're the right side, left side over here 'nonsense , I've never been so happy to see England lose. I don't think the Aussies got out of 3rd gear, they're going to need to for the next match. Not sure if they were purposely trying to be 'anti bazball', but the ultra negative style of play really doesn't suit them as a side.

Stokes need to tone it down, Cummins and the Aussies need to fire it up a bit. What a great match to set up the series.

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Originally Posted by The Bloop

As much as I thought Stokes shouldn't have declared when he did, it's the missed chances that cost England the game.
Great stuff though.

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Yeah I agree. I think Australia were rattled and if the chances were taken theyd have won.

It would have been a big win after such a declaration. You just can miss big chances like England did on a wicket like that.

England play as if losing doesn’t matter. They lost their previous game (I don’t count the Ireland match) after enforcing the follow on and lost this one because their Bazball keeper missed some chances Foakes would have taken - we can now say that the declaration definitely didn’t work and they wouldn’t have lost if they’d batted on and scored the fifty more they could have managed with Root going the way he was.

I’m not saying England’s approach is wrong, but questions are going to start being asked if they keep on losing games they shouldn’t have (especially Ashes ones).

One last thing, another reason why England lost was that their number one spinner was largely incapacitated through the decisive part of the game on a turning wicket - that was just bad luck (although it was a gamble to pick Moeen when he’d not bowled in red ball cricket for a couple of years) and had nothing to do with Bazball.

Moeens injury was bad luck but his selection was a gamble.

Also bit of bad luck Ducket and Crawley both going in between bad weather.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

England play as if losing doesn’t matter. They lost their previous game (I don’t count the Ireland match) after enforcing the follow on and lost this one because their Bazball keeper missed some chances Foakes would have taken - we can now say that the declaration definitely didn’t work and they wouldn’t have lost if they’d batted on and scored the fifty more they could have managed with Root going the way he was.

I’m not saying England’s approach is wrong, but questions are going to start being asked if they keep on losing games they shouldn’t have (especially Ashes ones).

One last thing, another reason why England lost was that their number one spinner was largely incapacitated through the decisive part of the game on a turning wicket - that was just bad luck (although it was a gamble to pick Moeen when he’d not bowled in red ball cricket for a couple of years) and had nothing to do with Bazball.

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Haven't England won 10 of their last 14?

The declaration meant a result was possible. There were 6 overs left, with the tail and then it is a new day, Root has to get in again. The big mistakes are Anderson is so undercooked, Bairstow too. There isn't a front line spinner to step in for Leach, and not taking the new ball was mental.

Also, on Bairstow. He is a world class batter and I'm pretty sure that's the worst he's ever kept.

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Originally Posted by Pedro de la Rosa

Haven't England won 10 of their last 14?

The declaration meant a result was possible. There were 6 overs left, with the tail and then it is a new day, Root has to get in again. The big mistakes are Anderson is so undercooked, Bairstow too. There isn't a front line spinner to step in for Leach, and not taking the new ball was mental.

Also, on Bairstow. He is a world class batter and I'm pretty sure that's the worst he's ever kept.

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I'd argue they'd have been able to move the game on quicker without declaring. I think there were 6 overs left in the day when they declared, lost 2 overs due to it so the Aussies faced 4 overs. Bright blue skies, pitch not doing much and root pinging sixes into the crowd. Just let root carry on playing T20 style for the last 6. They could well have ended up with another 50/60 quick runs against what was a tired looking bowling attack. As it was , Warner and khawaja had to face 4 overs in good conditions, they were probably glad to get out for a bat. If it was September and cloudy , and the ball was swinging round corners it would have made a lot more sense

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Originally Posted by Pedro de la Rosa

Haven't England won 10 of their last 14?

The declaration meant a result was possible. There were 6 overs left, with the tail and then it is a new day, Root has to get in again. The big mistakes are Anderson is so undercooked, Bairstow too. There isn't a front line spinner to step in for Leach, and not taking the new ball was mental.

Also, on Bairstow. He is a world class batter and I'm pretty sure that's the worst he's ever kept.

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It was the 1st day. The result was always possible.

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Originally Posted by Hilts

It was the 1st day. The result was always possible.

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They won with 5/6 overs to spare. So if Australia had the same 2 innings, the result wasn't possible.

The declaration is a much better decision than some of the choices made in the last hour, and the non selection of Wood.

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Originally Posted by Pedro de la Rosa

Haven't England won 10 of their last 14?

The declaration meant a result was possible. There were 6 overs left, with the tail and then it is a new day, Root has to get in again. The big mistakes are Anderson is so undercooked, Bairstow too. There isn't a front line spinner to step in for Leach, and not taking the new ball was mental.

Also, on Bairstow. He is a world class batter and I'm pretty sure that's the worst he's ever kept.

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Disagree about the declaration, Root hit something like fourteen off the over before the declaration, so six overs of him playing like that might have seen something like fifty scored. A result would have been possible if they’d batted on as it was only the firSt day. I’m not arguing against Bazball, but there are consequences to playing it - you win games you shouldn’t have, but we’re now starting to see that you lose games you shouldn’t.

There’s also consequences to picking Bairstow as wicketkeeper (someone said on Test Match Special that it’s a few years since Bairstow has played as a test wicketkeeper and that his body shape had changed in that time - they weren’t surprised that his wicket keeping, which was never top class, had declined).

My point is that the whole Bazball thing seems doomed to failure to me because as soon as things start to go wrong, there’ll be influential people within the game down on it like a ton of bricks saying I told you so - even if England come back and win the Ashes playing like they have been for the past year, I can’t see it becoming the norm in test cricket in the future (if test cricket has a future).

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

Disagree about the declaration, Root hit something like fourteen off the over before the declaration, so six overs of him playing like that might have seen something like fifty scored. A result would have been possible if they’d batted on as it was only the firSt day. I’m not arguing against Bazball, but there are consequences to playing it - you win games you shouldn’t have, but we’re now starting to see that you lose games you shouldn’t.

There’s also consequences to picking Bairstow as wicketkeeper (someone said on Test Match Special that it’s a few years since Bairstow has played as a test wicketkeeper and that his body shape had changed in that time - they weren’t surprised that his wicket keeping, which was never top class, had declined).

My point is that the whole Bazball thing seems doomed to failure to me because as soon as things start to go wrong, there’ll be influential people within the game down on it like a ton of bricks saying I told you so - even if England come back and win the Ashes playing like they have been for the past year, I can’t see it becoming the norm in test cricket in the future (if test cricket has a future).

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England lost this game because they stopped attacking/playing Baseball. They had Australia 8 down, with 60 needed and stopped attacking. They scored enough runs to have it sewn up, and for some reason they didn't take the new ball and let them back into the game. England have made test cricket exciting again and they've won far more games than they've "lost". Nobody wins in Pakistan without doing what England did. Who cares about the "influential people" in the game? They all wanted the crisp tournament and let the IPL turn into a monster without any intervention. England were going at 5/6 an over for an entire day, their Bazball batting meant a result was possible, regardless of the declaration.

I dont understand the thinking of delaying the new ball after Carey went.

Problem for Stokes is despite it being a brilliant competitive game the declaration and that decision will be questioned as they lost.

Bairstow continuing behind the stumps , adding Wood and sorting out the no balls really all needed to be looked at whatever the result.

We just got Willow TV here in Canada and subscription is the equivalent of £4.50 a month, so I paid for 2 months. I’m really only interested in test cricket these days and the last 5 days were a great spectacle - love it. Great to watch, and both teams should be applauded. Much rather see a result either way than a draw.
The dinosaur traditionalist pundits will undoubtedly be critical but that was some pretty exciting stuff to watch

Entertaining game but looking a bit ominous for England. Home advantage, won the toss and still they lost. Can’t see both Smith and Labuschagne not getting big runs in either innings happening again. The declaration looked a silly gimmick at the time and so it proved. Think Australia can only improve but can England? Wood and Foakes must start to have any chance.

Only an idiot declares on the first day of a test match in an ashes series.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

There’s also consequences to picking Bairstow as wicketkeeper (someone said on Test Match Special that it’s a few years since Bairstow has played as a test wicketkeeper and that his body shape had changed in that time - they weren’t surprised that his wicket keeping, which was never top class, had declined).

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Sky showed an interesting comparison of Bairstows missed stumping and Carey's stumping of Root.
Bairstow's whole upper body had to move to try to catch the ball, as if his back was stiff and shoulders frozen, whereas Carey's arms and hands moved much quicker and independently to stumping Root.
I was quite supportive of Bairstows inclusion as keeper but I've changed my mind. Trouble is,the current squad has been picked for the first 2 tests, so barring injury, Bairstow will keep in the 2nd aswell.

I didn't realise Australia had won until just now as I had to take the wife to the hospital.

Fantastic result, one more win should see the Ashes retained.

Always want England to win but some of the football chanting over the last few days was OTT in my opinion. The chant at Lyon was just embarrassing especially as he is the clear difference between the two teams. Banter is great but constant shouts of wanker, wanker, wanker is for beered up dick heads not proper cricket fans. Well done both teams for a magnificent game

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Originally Posted by chrisp_1927

I'd argue they'd have been able to move the game on quicker without declaring. I think there were 6 overs left in the day when they declared, lost 2 overs due to it so the Aussies faced 4 overs. Bright blue skies, pitch not doing much and root pinging sixes into the crowd. Just let root carry on playing T20 style for the last 6. They could well have ended up with another 50/60 quick runs against what was a tired looking bowling attack. As it was , Warner and khawaja had to face 4 overs in good conditions, they were probably glad to get out for a bat. If it was September and cloudy , and the ball was swinging round corners it would have made a lot more sense

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Yep this. A huge gamble that failed.

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Originally Posted by Harry Lime

Always want England to win but some of the football chanting over the last few days was OTT in my opinion. The chant at Lyon was just embarrassing especially as he is the clear difference between the two teams. Banter is great but constant shouts of wanker, wanker, wanker is for beered up dick heads not proper cricket fans. Well done both teams for a magnificent game

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A lot of the players don’t hear chanting apparently.

With regards to OTT chanting I take it you never watched a test at Eden Gardens in the very late 70’s and 80’s ?

All good fun.

I get the annoyance with the chanting but having been to Australia for the cricket there is nothing worse than a pissed up Australian. By that I mean about 2 beers.

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Originally Posted by Hilts

I get the annoyance with the chanting but having been to Australia for the cricket there is nothing worse than a pissed up Australian. By that I mean about 2 beers.

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No doubt, I can imagine. Our version is more orchestrated, as a result it dominates the background noise. No wonder there are increasing alcohol free areas at cricket grounds

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Originally Posted by Des Parrot

Yep this. A huge gamble that failed.

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it was all about billy big bollocks stokes look at what im doing, its obvious he shouldnt have played with the little bowling he could manage and when ali got a blister they were out of it, as said earlier let root have a go for half an hour them runs would have helped being with being what was 2 bowlers short

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Originally Posted by Harry Lime

Always want England to win but some of the football chanting over the last few days was OTT in my opinion. The chant at Lyon was just embarrassing especially as he is the clear difference between the two teams. Banter is great but constant shouts of wanker, wanker, wanker is for beered up dick heads not proper cricket fans. Well done both teams for a magnificent game

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:thumbup:

As much as I disagreed with stokes declaration, feel a bit sorry for him with some of the post game slatings I'm seeing for it around the press . Talk of him having to 'defend' it etc. You don't have the benefit of hindsight when making the decision, whereas some critics were happy to stay quiet for days then pipe up at end of the game.

If England had won we'd have been subjected to thousands of words from these same hacks on how 'the tone of the match was set from the first ball 4' and how the Aussies never recovered blah blah blah.

Also quite surprised to see England's approach being lauded in some quarters as the reason the game was so compelling. Maybe I'm just a cricket nerd, but the first ashes test when the teams are perceived to be evenly matched is always an exciting, supercharged event. Can't wait for the next test, think it's going to be an absolute cracker .

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Originally Posted by poc

it was all about billy big bollocks stokes look at what im doing, its obvious he shouldnt have played with the little bowling he could manage and when ali got a blister they were out of it, as said earlier let root have a go for half an hour them runs would have helped being with being what was 2 bowlers short

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Nobody complained about Billy Big Bollocks Stokes when we won 3-0 in Pakistan. This reaction is pathetic.

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Originally Posted by Pedro de la Rosa

Nobody complained about Billy Big Bollocks Stokes when we won 3-0 in Pakistan. This reaction is pathetic.

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England had a few key elements of luck go against them in this test. They would have won comfortably otherwise.

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Originally Posted by TWGL1

England had a few key elements of luck go against them in this test. They would have won comfortably otherwise.

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If you offered anyone that England would need to get 2 tailenders out, with 60 runs to play with, they’d have snapped your hands off.

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Originally Posted by Pedro de la Rosa

If you offered anyone that England would need to get 2 tailenders out, with 60 runs to play with, they’d have snapped your hands off.

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I was quite surprised to see Pat Cummins average was only about 16. In my head the blokes an all rounder, seen him play some wonderful innings. Although the stats would suggest that test wise he's a bowler who can bat a bit.

I'm just looking through some stats and I never knew what a graveyard Lord's has been for England in the Ashes.

37 tests played at Lord's between the two - England have 7 wins, 15 draws and 15 Aussie victories. That might not look too bad, but England won 4 of the first 6 tests between the two at Lords. So, until England won in 2009 at Lord's, they'd only one won test against Australia at Lord's in 113 years. Australia have won 6 of the last 10 with 2 England victories and 2 draws. Both the recent draws were as a result of rain - in 1997 England made a whopping 77 all out in the first innings but batted out a draw after rain delays with relative ease.

Quite a poignant story about that one England win in one hundred and thirteen years as well. Hedley Verity took fifteen wickets in England's victory at Lords in 1934 and was killed in action nine years later through wounds suffered during the Allies invasion of Sicily.

A question for older cricket fans on here - the Ashes weren't being contested in the only England v Australia test I've seen at Lords, when was the game played?

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

Quite a poignant story about that one England win in one hundred and thirteen years as well. Hedley Verity took fifteen wickets in England's victory at Lords in 1934 and was killed in action nine years later through wounds suffered during the Allies invasion of Sicily.

A question for older cricket fans on here - the Ashes weren't being contested in the only England v Australia test I've seen at Lords, when was the game played?

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How old?
I thought i heard mentioned the other day about a one-off centenary test in 1980? Don't remember if myself as the only centenary test I recall was in Australia in 1977 when Derek Randall got a big score.

I want to say the 1980's centenary test but not entirely sure on this.

I know there was a centenary test in Australia when Randall scored a century. There have been regular highlights of Randalls performance that day.

i would say the it was in the seventies but not sure

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Originally Posted by The Bloop

How old?
I thought i heard mentioned the other day about a one-off centenary test in 1980? Don't remember if myself as the only centenary test I recall was in Australia in 1977 when Derek Randall got a big score.

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Yes, I went to the first day of the 1980 Centenary test, from memory, Kim Hughes scored a century (I see Graeme Wood got one as well which, obviously, made no impression on me!). The game wasn’t a patch on the one from three years earlier you mention which finished with exactly the same result as the game it was celebrating - this one fizzled out into a dull, rain affected, draw.

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/...full-scorecard

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

Yes, I went to the first day of the 1980 Centenary test, from memory, Kim Hughes scored a century (I see Graeme Wood got one as well which, obviously, made no impression on me!). The game wasn’t a patch on the one from three years earlier you mention which finished with exactly the same result as the game it was celebrating - this one fizzled out into a dull, rain affected, draw.

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/...full-scorecard

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All pace attack chosen for Lords including Josh Tongue

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/66022952