Riot in Ely

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25-05-23, 08:28
blue matt

Re: Riot in Ely

another Video

https://news.sky.com/video/share-12888585
25-05-23, 09:14
The Bloop

Re: Riot in Ely

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue matt

another Video

https://news.sky.com/video/share-12888585

That shows a gap of ~16 seconds between vehicles. At 20 mph that's a distance of 154m and at 30 mph a distance of 216m.
That's not a chase or pursuit.

The gap is obviously shorter in the earlier video.
25-05-23, 09:49
SLUDGE FACTORY

Re: Riot in Ely

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisp_1927

The second CCTV video released yesterday actually makes it look nothing like a chase. Van was well behind them and then went a different direction. Unfortunately the press seem to sense a 'gotcha' moment and don't really seem to be analysing it

Initially the lads were being closely followed , at 30 mph , by the police

They pulled back
25-05-23, 09:56
SLUDGE FACTORY

Re: Riot in Ely

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue matt

another Video

https://news.sky.com/video/share-12888585

We know all this

We have cctv of the police following the youngsters at 30 mph

Wether they were following them for 500 yards or 50 yards that's what they were doing

The police made initial statements that they were not involved

You cannot blame people for saying hold on a minute I saw you following them ......and it's been proved by cctv

The police from the start should have said .....officers were following two persons , it wasn't a full on chase but we were at speeds of 30 mph ....at a safe distance

This happened for approximately ....2 minutes .....insert time here

Then the scooter continued as our officers turned off the road

Shortly after the fatal accident occurred but we had no vehicles in the area at the time

What's so difficult about that ?
25-05-23, 09:57
the other bob wilson

Re: Riot in Ely

Quote:

Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

The police should be praised when they do a good job .....that's most of the time .....

I'll take your word for it.
25-05-23, 09:59
chrisp_1927

Re: Riot in Ely

Quote:

Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

Initially the lads were being closely followed , at 30 mph , by the police

They pulled back

I'd agree with that. Makes it hard for me to understand that it can be described as a chase. Certainly pushing it to suggest the police were chasing at time of accident.
25-05-23, 10:00
SLUDGE FACTORY

Re: Riot in Ely

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Bloop

That shows a gap of ~16 seconds between vehicles. At 20 mph that's a distance of 154m and at 30 mph a distance of 216m.
That's not a chase or pursuit.

The gap is obviously shorter in the earlier video.

So in the earlier video people seeing that who are not experts in roads policing would think .....those boys are being tailed , followed etc by the police ....

So when the police initially say no police involved in accident then people are understandably going to think 🤔......they are taking the piss here
25-05-23, 10:03
superfeathers

Re: Riot in Ely

Clearly not a chase, still following but having kept a safe speed, lost them? Maybe
Is it just me though or is that police van going at quite a speed for one that's not on blue lights
Speed the boys were going at was crazy though and a tragic accident waiting to happen
25-05-23, 10:43
The Bloop

Re: Riot in Ely

Quote:

Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

So in the earlier video people seeing that who are not experts in roads policing would think .....those boys are being tailed , followed etc by the police ....

So when the police initially say no police involved in accident then people are understandably going to think 🤔......they are taking the piss here

People put together snippets of information/gossip/hearsay and jumped to a conclusion. That's what led to the unrest.

Alun Michael's statement and early involvement was unnecessary and wrong. That's not his job. He should have allowed the police to gather evidence before letting them make a statement. I was speaking to a civilian member of swp last night - the general feeling in the force is that Alun Michael tends to get too involved in day to day matters, and the last couple of days shows that.
25-05-23, 10:53
J R Hartley

Re: Riot in Ely

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Bloop

People put together snippets of information/gossip/hearsay and jumped to a conclusion. That's what led to the unrest.

Alun Michael's statement and early involvement was unnecessary and wrong. That's not his job. He should have allowed the police to gather evidence before letting them make a statement. I was speaking to a civilian member of swp last night - the general feeling in the force is that Alun Michael tends to get too involved in day to day matters, and the last couple of days shows that.

The man is nearly 80 years old, he should be put out to graze.
25-05-23, 11:47
SLUDGE FACTORY

Re: Riot in Ely

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Bloop

People put together snippets of information/gossip/hearsay and jumped to a conclusion. That's what led to the unrest.

Alun Michael's statement and early involvement was unnecessary and wrong. That's not his job. He should have allowed the police to gather evidence before letting them make a statement. I was speaking to a civilian member of swp last night - the general feeling in the force is that Alun Michael tends to get too involved in day to day matters, and the last couple of days shows that.

I would be surprised if he doesn't step down
25-05-23, 13:09
J R Hartley

Re: Riot in Ely

Seek help Sludge.

You started off on ths thread saying the police were not to blame and have now done a full 180 degree turn.
25-05-23, 13:26
TWGL1

Re: Riot in Ely

SW Police need a complete restructure, perhaps like the Police Scotland set up , it’s getting like the RUC in Ulster

Any credibility they perhaps once had has evaporated.
25-05-23, 13:32
Wash DC Blue

Re: Riot in Ely

Quote:

Originally Posted by TWGL1

SW Police need a complete restructure, perhaps like the Police Scotland set up , it’s getting like the RUC in Ulster

Any credibility they perhaps once had has evaporated.

I’m not sure that Police Scotland is a great example.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-65706748
25-05-23, 13:50
TWGL1

Re: Riot in Ely

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wash DC Blue

I’m not sure that Police Scotland is a great example.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-65706748

Yes just saw that but perhaps a restructure would be for the best , there has been far too many mistakes and miscarriages of justice for a force of that size. I also thought the ACC was rude to walk out of the press conference whilst questions were still being put to her yesterday.

Why is there such an insistence of CCTV footage also when there a numerous witnesses saying the children were being pursued?
25-05-23, 13:59
SLUDGE FACTORY

Re: Riot in Ely

Quote:

Originally Posted by J R Hartley

Seek help Sludge.

You started off on ths thread saying the police were not to blame and have now done a full 180 degree turn.

Give your head a wobble

Your first contribution on here was to slag off another poster about what was being said on twitter f f sake ......which turned out to be true basically .....the coppers were following these kids

The fact they pulled back is not the issue because they initially said they only got involved after the crash ......which is not exactly being free with the facts

Is it ?
25-05-23, 14:00
SLUDGE FACTORY

Re: Riot in Ely

Quote:

Originally Posted by TWGL1

Yes just saw that but perhaps a restructure would be for the best , there has been far too many mistakes and miscarriages of justice for a force of that size. I also thought the ACC was rude to walk out of the press conference whilst questions were still being put to her yesterday.

Why is there such an insistence of CCTV footage also when there a numerous witnesses saying the children were being pursued?

Ain't that the truth

Or is it
25-05-23, 14:02
SLUDGE FACTORY

Re: Riot in Ely

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisp_1927

'according to twitter'. I was hardly giving it a ringing endorsement. Is it that you don't understand things? Or just pretend not to

He's a strange boy
25-05-23, 14:05
SLUDGE FACTORY

Re: Riot in Ely

Quote:

Originally Posted by J R Hartley

Well according to the police commisioner himself last night it is not true. They turned up AFTER the collision.

It is being widely reported, locally and nationally, that the police chase was rumours and not fact and those rumours are being blamed for the riots.

According to the alun Micheal?

You think he's OK now do you ?

Make your mind up Freddie
25-05-23, 14:47
blue matt

Re: Riot in Ely

Quote:

Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

The police from the start should have said .....officers were following two persons , it wasn't a full on chase but we were at speeds of 30 mph ....at a safe distance

What's so difficult about that ?

Do you think that would have appeased the mob ? ?

I can only see one thing, 2 lads have died, they were " joy riding " ( is that a term they still use ) on a Fairly high powered E Bike ( reminding me of the early 90's when I used to frequent Ely, always young kids hammering around on Scramblers then ) someone says " the Feds were chasing them " , Mob assembles and have a laugh launchingbricks at the police / setting fire to cars / etc etc

not sure what th police could have said that would have changed the mindless destruction
25-05-23, 15:38
SLUDGE FACTORY

Re: Riot in Ely

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue matt

Do you think that would have appeased the mob ? ?

I can only see one thing, 2 lads have died, they were " joy riding " ( is that a term they still use ) on a Fairly high powered E Bike ( reminding me of the early 90's when I used to frequent Ely, always young kids hammering around on Scramblers then ) someone says " the Feds were chasing them " , Mob assembles and have a laugh launchingbricks at the police / setting fire to cars / etc etc

not sure what th police could have said that would have changed the mindless destruction

I think if the community were being told that the police had been following the boys .....which is what people who saw that would have confirmed ......the chatter on social media and on the estate would have been less anti police than it clearly became

It's up to the police to explain why things happened as they did

I think blind acceptance of the police and their tactics is unbelievably odd given the history of South Wales Police

We all know most coppers are professional people but you only have to remember previous cock ups or are people walking around with their heads in the clouds ?
25-05-23, 15:45
SLUDGE FACTORY

Re: Riot in Ely

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue matt

Do you think that would have appeased the mob ? ?

I can only see one thing, 2 lads have died, they were " joy riding " ( is that a term they still use ) on a Fairly high powered E Bike ( reminding me of the early 90's when I used to frequent Ely, always young kids hammering around on Scramblers then ) someone says " the Feds were chasing them " , Mob assembles and have a laugh launchingbricks at the police / setting fire to cars / etc etc

not sure what th police could have said that would have changed the mindless destruction

As far as people who saw the van driving around after the youngsters ......they were chasing them

You can call it following if you like

So the police saying they were not and no police were involved ......well what conclusion do you think people who saw the van would think ?

If that was me and the police came on the radio and said .....no police were involved ....I would think hold on a minute .....they are fibbing here

That's how these things start . We know the lads shouldn't have been riding around .....but that's sorted ......its how the police dealt with all this that matters and they could be argued to have made a right balls up and helped fan the flames of disorder

You and most of us wouldn't have set cars on fire but that's not the issue
25-05-23, 16:43
SOXY BOY

Re: Riot in Ely

It’s ironic that Labour we’re against the introduction of Police Commissioners but it didn’t stop Alun Michael taking the job. Nice work for a 79 year old on just under £87,000 grand a year. To be honest, I don’t think he’s made any improvement as to how SWP operates.
25-05-23, 16:45
SLUDGE FACTORY

Re: Riot in Ely

Quote:

Originally Posted by SOXY BOY

It’s ironic that Labour we’re against the introduction of Police Commissioners but it didn’t stop Alun Michael taking the job. Nice work for a 79 year old on just under £87,000 grand a year. To be honest, I don’t think he’s made any improvement as to how SWP operates.

That says more about alun Micheal than it does about the labour party
25-05-23, 17:04
RichardM

Re: Riot in Ely

Quote:

Originally Posted by SOXY BOY

It’s ironic that Labour we’re against the introduction of Police Commissioners but it didn’t stop Alun Michael taking the job. Nice work for a 79 year old on just under £87,000 grand a year. To be honest, I don’t think he’s made any improvement as to how SWP operates.

Once they became a thing of course Labour Party put someone up as a candidate for the job.
25-05-23, 17:05
SOXY BOY

Re: Riot in Ely

Sludge, you maybe right there.
25-05-23, 17:18
SLUDGE FACTORY

Re: Riot in Ely

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichardM

Once they became a thing of course Labour Party put someone up as a candidate for the job.

Which is understandable

The conservatives were against the Welsh assembly but fight the seats now
25-05-23, 17:34
J R Hartley

Re: Riot in Ely

Quote:

Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

Give your head a wobble

Your first contribution on here was to slag off another poster about what was being said on twitter f f sake ......which turned out to be true basically .....the coppers were following these kids

The fact they pulled back is not the issue because they initially said they only got involved after the crash ......which is not exactly being free with the facts

Is it ?

Poppycock

They were not giving chase and I called out the poster spreading social media rumours and how dangerous they are.

I still stand by it. They were not killed because of a police chase because there was no chase.

Alun Michaels should have said the police followed them for a short period, yes, but he was right to say there want a chase because quite simply there wasn’t.
25-05-23, 17:39
SLUDGE FACTORY

Re: Riot in Ely

Quote:

Originally Posted by J R Hartley

Poppycock

They were not giving chase and I called out the poster spreading social media rumours and how dangerous they are.

I still stand by it. They were not killed because of a police chase because there was no chase.

Alun Michaels should have said the police followed them for a short period, yes, but he was right to say there want a chase because quite simply there wasn’t.

Bullshit . The only person all over the place on this is you . Were you a copper in a past life ? Or did you fail the fitness test ?
25-05-23, 17:43
J R Hartley

Re: Riot in Ely

Quote:

Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

As far as people who saw the van driving around after the youngsters ......they were chasing them

You can call it following if you like

So the police saying they were not and no police were involved ......well what conclusion do you think people who saw the van would think ?

If that was me and the police came on the radio and said .....no police were involved ....I would think hold on a minute .....they are fibbing here

That's how these things start . We know the lads shouldn't have been riding around .....but that's sorted ......its how the police dealt with all this that matters and they could be argued to have made a right balls up and helped fan the flames of disorder

You and most of us wouldn't have set cars on fire but that's not the issue

You’ve now made up your own version of how the riots started which clearly doesn’t fit the timeline of events.

Alun Michael was being economical with the truth well after the riots had started and ended so how did they “fan the flames”.
25-05-23, 17:45
J R Hartley

Re: Riot in Ely

Quote:

Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

Bullshit . The only person all over the place on this is you . Were you a copper in a past life ? Or did you fail the fitness test ?

What’s bullshit? There was no chase, that is evident from the second video.
25-05-23, 18:35
TWGL1

Re: Riot in Ely

Quote:

Originally Posted by J R Hartley

What’s bullshit? There was no chase, that is evident from the second video.

Every SPG vehicle is fitted with front and rear cameras, I assume the Babylon will release the footage soon in order to stop the speculation.

It’s illegal to pursue children in a police vehicle apparently
25-05-23, 18:58
goats

Re: Riot in Ely

Quote:

Originally Posted by J R Hartley

What’s bullshit? There was no chase, that is evident from the second video.

The bike went through rails didn’t it where the coppers couldn’t follow in the van? Was nowhere near them when they actually crashed?
25-05-23, 19:40
SLUDGE FACTORY

Re: Riot in Ely

Quote:

Originally Posted by J R Hartley

You’ve now made up your own version of how the riots started which clearly doesn’t fit the timeline of events.

Alun Michael was being economical with the truth well after the riots had started and ended so how did they “fan the flames”.

More bullshit

Alun Micheal said there was no police involvement BEFORE things kicked off
25-05-23, 19:43
SLUDGE FACTORY

Re: Riot in Ely

Quote:

Originally Posted by goats

The bike went through rails didn’t it where the coppers couldn’t follow in the van? Was nowhere near them when they actually crashed?

We know all this

It's the police denial of involvement that's the issue , only dealt with AFTER the first video

The second video only shows they were not following when the lads died .....but it does show that the police van was following these lads for a period

And that is what the coppers are not dealing with and so e on here are sweeping away

Quite why I don't know
25-05-23, 21:24
J R Hartley

Re: Riot in Ely

Quote:

Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

More bullshit

Alun Micheal said there was no police involvement BEFORE things kicked off

Wrong. How the **** would he make a statement about the riots BEFORE things kicked off?

Have an hour off the phone or computer Sludge, you are clearly tired and weary.
25-05-23, 21:40
SLUDGE FACTORY

Re: Riot in Ely

Quote:

Originally Posted by J R Hartley

Wrong. How the **** would he make a statement about the riots BEFORE things kicked off?

Have an hour off the phone or computer Sludge, you are clearly tired and weary.

Nope , he said on live radio that the police had not been involved in the crash in the evening before the rioting began
25-05-23, 21:50
J R Hartley

Re: Riot in Ely

Quote:

Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

Nope , he said on live radio that the police had not been involved in the crash in the evening before the rioting began

He said that next morning. Go to bed.
25-05-23, 21:58
SLUDGE FACTORY

Re: Riot in Ely

Quote:

Originally Posted by J R Hartley

He said that next morning. Go to bed.

I thought it was the other way round

Anyway they are still fibbers
25-05-23, 22:10
JamesWales

Re: Riot in Ely

Quote:

Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

That says more about alun Micheal than it does about the labour party

And I am sure you would say the same if he was from another party

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