FT: TURKEY 2 - 0 WALES. Match thread

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Originally Posted by Bobby Dandruff

Did you SEE the stud marks on the Turkish player?

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It's a physical game or used to be

Just because somebody has a mark from a challenge doesn't mean the tackler intended to injure that person

Timing is crucial and often makes a situation look worse than it was

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

It's a physical game or used to be

Just because somebody has a mark from a challenge doesn't mean the tackler intended to injure that person

Timing is crucial and often makes a situation look worse than it was

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If had been the other way around we’d expect the opposition player to be sent off.

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Originally Posted by Bobby Dandruff

If had been the other way around we’d expect the opposition player to be sent off.

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I beg to differ

I can't stand over reactions

It would have stung a bit but in rugby they get on with it

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

We overperformed hugely courtesy of Bale and we are simply returning to the status quo given our very limited resources.

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True, but I still think that these players can deliver more and I’m starting to doubt that Page is capable of making that happen.

There are lots of examples where he fails to make changes that could affect a game when most people can see that certain tactics aren’t working. Proactive management.

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Originally Posted by Bobby Dandruff

If had been the other way around we’d expect the opposition player to be sent off.

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Absolutely. No place for tackles like that in football.

I couldn't give a shit if it was slightly mistimed, any tackle like that could cause serious injury.

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

I beg to differ

I can't stand over reactions

It would have stung a bit but in rugby they get on with it

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You're happy for players to show studs in a tackle in football. Says all I need to know.

Two nil away to Turkey is not that bad , thier a decent side, in their last 5 matches they've won 4

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Originally Posted by life on mars

Two nil away to Turkey is not that bad , thier a decent side, in their last 5 matches they've won 4

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It could have been 5, but 2, thanks to a penalty save and VAR makes things much better.

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

It's a physical game or used to be

Just because somebody has a mark from a challenge doesn't mean the tackler intended to injure that person

Timing is crucial and often makes a situation look worse than it was

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It was never that physical. That would have always been a sending off.

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Originally Posted by Bobby Dandruff

If had been the other way around we’d expect the opposition player to be sent off.

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Disagree Bobby.
Dealt a very harsh hand IMHO.
The last decade apart, we have grown accustomed to this type of decision.

Some barren years ahead I fear.

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Originally Posted by life on mars

Two nil away to Turkey is not that bad , thier a decent side, in their last 5 matches they've won 4

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Turkey were crap, we’re so bad currently that they won comfortably despite themselves.

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

We overperformed hugely courtesy of Bale and we are simply returning to the status quo given our very limited resources.

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Deservedly losing 4-2 at home to Armenia would have been a shocking result in any era of Welsh football.

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Originally Posted by NYCBlue

It was never that physical. That would have always been a sending off.

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Not a hundred per cent sure of that, but it definitely was one in this era.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

Not a hundred per cent sure of that, but it definitely was one in this era.

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It was the softest definite red ever, but by the letter of the law a definite red

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

I beg to differ

I can't stand over reactions

It would have stung a bit but in rugby they get on with it

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In rugby, the challenge on Ampadu in the air would have been a red. And so was this one even though it was unintentional. Very dangerous.

We can argue about how poor a manager Page is, but they look like a group of players who don't have a manager - or even worse and which I suspect - have no confidence or respect for him. The Moore and Morrell reds were simply ill-discipline. Again, sorry to harp on about him, but what on earth does Ramsey bring to the team nowadays ?

As much as I really like Rob Page, seems like a lovely bloke - he should never have been allowed to stay on after the World Cup. It was a shambles, and continues to be a shambles. They look a total mess.

I think the talk of going back to the bad old days is premature, there’s a lot of good players there, but they need a real manager who can get them playing as a unit again with a proper system that makes the best of what we have. I don’t see him walking so the faw need to act. He’s probably a great coach, not a manager

Good time to change manager. No matches now until September and the next game's a friendly.

One win in twelve now for Page’s miserable and indisciplined Wales.

https://mauveandyellowarmy.net/

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Originally Posted by A Quiet Monkfish

We can argue about how poor a manager Page is, but they look like a group of players who don't have a manager - or even worse and which I suspect - have no confidence or respect for him. The Moore and Morrell reds were simply ill-discipline. Again, sorry to harp on about him, but what on earth does Ramsey bring to the team nowadays ?

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More than Morrell? What would be your midfield without him?

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

Deservedly losing 4-2 at home to Armenia would have been a shocking result in any era of Welsh football.

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Yes but bear in mind Bob, like most international teams, Armenia has improved: the Armenia of today is far better than the Armenia of yesteryear. We could say the same about Wales (recent history apart).

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Originally Posted by Dorcus

Yes but bear in mind Bob, like most international teams, Armenia has improved: the Armenia of today is far better than the Armenia of yesteryear. We could say the same about Wales (recent history apart).

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Armenia were winless in nine (seven of which were lost) going into Friday’s game, they’d conceded thirty three in their last eleven and needed a last minute goal to beat Latvia - they may be improving, but there wasn’t much sign of it before they played us.

For me it's no coincidence that it all started going tits up when Albert Stuivenberg left. Just as I don't think it's a coincidence that Arsenal have improved massively while he's been there full time. He's an elite coach with an advanced understanding of tactics and modern football.

The squad is not at the same level as the golden generation. Some are not good enough (Mepham, Roberts). Some are past it (Ramsey). And some haven't quite developed as we would have liked, for various reasons (Rodon, Ampadu, Brooks, James).

But there's undeniably enough ability and experience there to be a B tier nation that qualifies semi-regularly for tournaments (especially the Euros in it's expanded format).

Under the current manager, there is no philosophy, no plan, no discipline, no direction, and no hope. I believe he's lost the dressing room (if rumours are to be believed about Gareth Bale's dislike of Page, then that's a pretty good barometer of what the rest think about him). We need a manager who can take us back to basics, make us hard to beat again, and build from that.

At the moment teams don't have to do anything to beat us. The longer it goes on, the more people momentum we'll lose, and the more difficult it will be to turn things around. In the meantime, our best players will lose interest, attendances will dwindle, and the next thing you know we're back to 8,000 crowds at the Liberty.

I don't care how much it will cost to pay off his contract, they need to sack him ASAP or all the work of the last 10 years will be meaningless.

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Originally Posted by FormerlyJohnnyBreadhead

For me it's no coincidence that it all started going tits up when Albert Stuivenberg left. Just as I don't think it's a coincidence that Arsenal have improved massively while he's been there full time. He's an elite coach with an advanced understanding of tactics and modern football.

The squad is not at the same level as the golden generation. Some are not good enough (Mepham, Roberts). Some are past it (Ramsey). And some haven't quite developed as we would have liked, for various reasons (Rodon, Ampadu, Brooks, James).

But there's undeniably enough ability and experience there to be a B tier nation that qualifies semi-regularly for tournaments (especially the Euros in it's expanded format).

Under the current manager, there is no philosophy, no plan, no discipline, no direction, and no hope. I believe he's lost the dressing room (if rumours are to be believed about Gareth Bale's dislike of Page, then that's a pretty good barometer of what the rest think about him). We need a manager who can take us back to basics, make us hard to beat again, and build from that.

At the moment teams don't have to do anything to beat us. The longer it goes on, the more people momentum we'll lose, and the more difficult it will be to turn things around. In the meantime, our best players will lose interest, attendances will dwindle, and the next thing you know we're back to 8,000 crowds at the Liberty.

I don't care how much it will cost to pay off his contract, they need to sack him ASAP or all the work of the last 10 years will be meaningless.

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The lack is shape/plan for the team is the most shocking. I know the defenders and particularly the midfield are getting stick and it’s warranted but the midfield seem to be chasing shadows and the defence unsure of themselves. That comes from structure and a game plan even if the quality isn’t what it used to be they are still mostly premier league and championship players.

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Originally Posted by FormerlyJohnnyBreadhead

For me it's no coincidence that it all started going tits up when Albert Stuivenberg left. Just as I don't think it's a coincidence that Arsenal have improved massively while he's been there full time. He's an elite coach with an advanced understanding of tactics and modern football.

The squad is not at the same level as the golden generation. Some are not good enough (Mepham, Roberts). Some are past it (Ramsey). And some haven't quite developed as we would have liked, for various reasons (Rodon, Ampadu, Brooks, James).

But there's undeniably enough ability and experience there to be a B tier nation that qualifies semi-regularly for tournaments (especially the Euros in it's expanded format).

Under the current manager, there is no philosophy, no plan, no discipline, no direction, and no hope. I believe he's lost the dressing room (if rumours are to be believed about Gareth Bale's dislike of Page, then that's a pretty good barometer of what the rest think about him). We need a manager who can take us back to basics, make us hard to beat again, and build from that.

At the moment teams don't have to do anything to beat us. The longer it goes on, the more people momentum we'll lose, and the more difficult it will be to turn things around. In the meantime, our best players will lose interest, attendances will dwindle, and the next thing you know we're back to 8,000 crowds at the Liberty.

I don't care how much it will cost to pay off his contract, they need to sack him ASAP or all the work of the last 10 years will be meaningless.

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Excellent summary

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Originally Posted by NYCBlue

The players are not great, but they're not terrible either. They all play at a high level. Something we couldn't always boast. I think a decent tactician and game manager could get more out of them. This team was quite capable of picking up 4 points over these last two games if they played to a better game plan. The defensive organisation has been ridiculous.

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Completely agree, this isn't a bunch of League 1 and 2 players but they're playing like they are. Complete lack of structure is making them look much worse than they actually are. The bulk of this team qualified for the Euros and the World Cup, of course Bale had a big influence, but the rest rarely looked this shambolic

I also think Page doesn't instil the right attitude in the players and we're seeing that in our poor discipline

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Originally Posted by FormerlyJohnnyBreadhead

For me it's no coincidence that it all started going tits up when Albert Stuivenberg left. Just as I don't think it's a coincidence that Arsenal have improved massively while he's been there full time. He's an elite coach with an advanced understanding of tactics and modern football.

The squad is not at the same level as the golden generation. Some are not good enough (Mepham, Roberts). Some are past it (Ramsey). And some haven't quite developed as we would have liked, for various reasons (Rodon, Ampadu, Brooks, James).

But there's undeniably enough ability and experience there to be a B tier nation that qualifies semi-regularly for tournaments (especially the Euros in it's expanded format).

Under the current manager, there is no philosophy, no plan, no discipline, no direction, and no hope. I believe he's lost the dressing room (if rumours are to be believed about Gareth Bale's dislike of Page, then that's a pretty good barometer of what the rest think about him). We need a manager who can take us back to basics, make us hard to beat again, and build from that.

At the moment teams don't have to do anything to beat us. The longer it goes on, the more people momentum we'll lose, and the more difficult it will be to turn things around. In the meantime, our best players will lose interest, attendances will dwindle, and the next thing you know we're back to 8,000 crowds at the Liberty.

I don't care how much it will cost to pay off his contract, they need to sack him ASAP or all the work of the last 10 years will be meaningless.

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Mepham made 26 appearances for Bournemouth in the Premier League last season. Robert played 43 times for a Burnley team that finished top of the Championship. They're never going to be world-beaters, but there is absolutely no way that they should be getting embarrassed like they have done recently for Wales. Either they don't care about how they perform in international football, which I don't believe, or they're playing in a team that is being set up to fail.

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Originally Posted by FormerlyJohnnyBreadhead

For me it's no coincidence that it all started going tits up when Albert Stuivenberg left. Just as I don't think it's a coincidence that Arsenal have improved massively while he's been there full time. He's an elite coach with an advanced understanding of tactics and modern football.

The squad is not at the same level as the golden generation. Some are not good enough (Mepham, Roberts). Some are past it (Ramsey). And some haven't quite developed as we would have liked, for various reasons (Rodon, Ampadu, Brooks, James).

But there's undeniably enough ability and experience there to be a B tier nation that qualifies semi-regularly for tournaments (especially the Euros in it's expanded format).

Under the current manager, there is no philosophy, no plan, no discipline, no direction, and no hope. I believe he's lost the dressing room (if rumours are to be believed about Gareth Bale's dislike of Page, then that's a pretty good barometer of what the rest think about him). We need a manager who can take us back to basics, make us hard to beat again, and build from that.

At the moment teams don't have to do anything to beat us. The longer it goes on, the more people momentum we'll lose, and the more difficult it will be to turn things around. In the meantime, our best players will lose interest, attendances will dwindle, and the next thing you know we're back to 8,000 crowds at the Liberty.

I don't care how much it will cost to pay off his contract, they need to sack him ASAP or all the work of the last 10 years will be meaningless.

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A sad day for Welsh football.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57974739

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Originally Posted by Robin Friday's Ghost

In rugby, the challenge on Ampadu in the air would have been a red. And so was this one even though it was unintentional. Very dangerous.

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Glad somebody else saw it. A very cheap shot. Sly glance, stood his ground and leant in.

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Originally Posted by fugsyphil

Excellent summary

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I agree an excellent summary. And we do need to go back to being hard to beat. Mr Giggs was not a popular man as Wales manager but we were simply not conceding in that Nations Cup campaign - and ended up winning the Group and ultimately a play off. It's the corner stone of international football for the vast majority of non-tier 1 nations.

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Originally Posted by Lord Worcester

Glad somebody else saw it. A very cheap shot. Sly glance, stood his ground and leant in.

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Been happening more and more in football, Harry Kane is the master of it

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

You're happy for players to show studs in a tackle in football. Says all I need to know.

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It happens you doughnut

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Originally Posted by FormerlyJohnnyBreadhead

For me it's no coincidence that it all started going tits up when Albert Stuivenberg left. Just as I don't think it's a coincidence that Arsenal have improved massively while he's been there full time. He's an elite coach with an advanced understanding of tactics and modern football.

The squad is not at the same level as the golden generation. Some are not good enough (Mepham, Roberts). Some are past it (Ramsey). And some haven't quite developed as we would have liked, for various reasons (Rodon, Ampadu, Brooks, James).

But there's undeniably enough ability and experience there to be a B tier nation that qualifies semi-regularly for tournaments (especially the Euros in it's expanded format).

Under the current manager, there is no philosophy, no plan, no discipline, no direction, and no hope. I believe he's lost the dressing room (if rumours are to be believed about Gareth Bale's dislike of Page, then that's a pretty good barometer of what the rest think about him). We need a manager who can take us back to basics, make us hard to beat again, and build from that.

At the moment teams don't have to do anything to beat us. The longer it goes on, the more people momentum we'll lose, and the more difficult it will be to turn things around. In the meantime, our best players will lose interest, attendances will dwindle, and the next thing you know we're back to 8,000 crowds at the Liberty.

I don't care how much it will cost to pay off his contract, they need to sack him ASAP or all the work of the last 10 years will be meaningless.

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Rodon has dropped rapidly he was looking like being a good player at one point!

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Originally Posted by Dorcus

Yes but bear in mind Bob, like most international teams, Armenia has improved: the Armenia of today is far better than the Armenia of yesteryear. We could say the same about Wales (recent history apart).

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Seemed to have some very good young players coming through as did Turkey, we looked clueless in both games.

The chickens are coming home to roost for all those who wanted Giggs out. Be careful what you wish for.

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Originally Posted by J R Hartley

The chickens are coming home to roost for all those who wanted Giggs out. Be careful what you wish for.

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I think he was on the right track, I wasn't sure about the initial appointment, but he started to get them playing and it looked like he knew what he was doing, this trial was terrible timing for him.