20mph online petition

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Originally Posted by HiVis

Why would I do that? I enjoy reading your posts, its good comedy reading on a dull day like today.

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:hehe:

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Originally Posted by Rjk

ok, well you also do more speeding up and slowing down at 30 than you do at 20 :shrug:

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Think of the very cautious drivers at junctions and how not being able to go above 20mph will impact there ability to keep the traffic flowing.

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Originally Posted by HiVis

Think of the very cautious drivers at junctions and how not being able to go above 20mph will impact there ability to keep the traffic flowing.

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People will get hit crossing the roads as well assuming they'll have plenty of time and miss judge because 80% won't be obeying the limit most of the time, it's just added another layer of confusion and frustration to the roads.

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Originally Posted by HiVis

Think of the very cautious drivers at junctions and how not being able to go above 20mph will impact there ability to keep the traffic flowing.

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surely it'll be a slower motion version of 30. So the cautious drivers should love that

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Originally Posted by superfeathers

surely it'll be a slower motion version of 30. So the cautious drivers should love that

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knowing you cannot exceed 20mph means you can't accelerate as fast as you did previously. This adds to the time taken for the cautious drivers as the gap between cars that they require will become even larger.

RJK conveniently ignored by earlier comment. Being hit by bus or lorry at 20mph and you're dead. Are we slowing these vehicles down to 5 mph or is the safety aspect just a smokescreeen?

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Originally Posted by HiVis

knowing you cannot exceed 20mph means you can't accelerate as fast as you did previously. This adds to the time taken for the cautious drivers as the gap between cars that they require will become even larger.

RJK conveniently ignored by earlier comment. Being hit by bus or lorry at 20mph and you're dead. Are we slowing these vehicles down to 5 mph or is the safety aspect just a smokescreeen?

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I ignored it because it was moronic.

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Originally Posted by superfeathers

surely it'll be a slower motion version of 30. So the cautious drivers should love that

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Yes, slower oncoming traffic means its better for pulling out of junctions and traffic flow. As Gabalfa roundabout is when knobheads aren't flying around there at 30+.

That petition isn't worth a wank anymore as you got people who pissed at Covid lockdowns 2 years signing just to "get one over" on Drakeford.

Seeing some people lose their collective minds over a 10mph reduction in certain areas has been hilarious. If it angers the absolute melts then I hope it stays around. :popcorn:

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Originally Posted by HiVis

knowing you cannot exceed 20mph means you can't accelerate as fast as you did previously. This adds to the time taken for the cautious drivers as the gap between cars that they require will become even larger.

RJK conveniently ignored by earlier comment. Being hit by bus or lorry at 20mph and you're dead. Are we slowing these vehicles down to 5 mph or is the safety aspect just a smokescreeen?

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That makes no sense at all. You couldn't previously exceed 30mph, it's the same thing, except slower.

Car coming out of junction onto 30mph traffic knows he/she can't go over 30mph pulling out, but has 30mph cars going each way.

Car coming out of junction onto 20mph traffic knows he/she can't go over 20mph pulling out, but has 20mph cars going each way. So it's easier. They're going slower. Cautious drivers will love this.

The people who won't love it will be the people who rev the shit out of their cars to zip out of a junction really quickly over 30 will be caught short. But it'll mean those people shunt into the back of queuing traffic less. Another benefit.

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Originally Posted by Rjk

1 or 2 minutes added to journeys

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So this morning on Cathedral road - I was sat in traffic for 20 mins - due to the new bus lane issues. Sat in a vehicle wit my engine running - like everyone else - dont you think that the resulting traffic jams will result in more air pollution ?

ps - what is the total cost the the economy of delayed journey times ?

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Originally Posted by pipster

So this morning on Cathedral road - I was sat in traffic for 20 mins - due to the new bus lane issues. Sat in a vehicle wit my engine running - like everyone else - dont you think that the resulting traffic jams will result in more air pollution ?

ps - what is the total cost the the economy of delayed journey times ?

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why would 20mph speed limits make more traffic jams, or more cars on the road?

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Originally Posted by superfeathers

That makes no sense at all. You couldn't previously exceed 30mph, it's the same thing, except slower.

Car coming out of junction onto 30mph traffic knows he/she can't go over 30mph pulling out, but has 30mph cars going each way.

Car coming out of junction onto 20mph traffic knows he/she can't go over 20mph pulling out, but has 20mph cars going each way. So it's easier. They're going slower. Cautious drivers will love this.

The people who won't love it will be the people who rev the shit out of their cars to zip out of a junction really quickly over 30 will be caught short. But it'll mean those people shunt into the back of queuing traffic less. Another benefit.

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of course it makes sense you're just not thinking clearly.

in a flow of traffic at 30mph the gaps between cars will be greater than if they are travelling at 20mph. All the dithering idiots waiting at junctions to join the flow of traffic, the gaps between cars are now going to be smaller, meaning they are less likely to join the traffic in an expeditious manner. Instead they'll wait for longer waiting for a gap that they feel comfortable joining.

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Originally Posted by Rjk

why would 20mph speed limits make more traffic jams, or more cars on the road?

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density wave theory, look it up. its what causes bunching on motorways.

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Originally Posted by HiVis

density wave theory, look it up. its what causes bunching on motorways.

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and is that more prevalent at higher or lower speeds....

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Originally Posted by nomad blue

Yes, slower oncoming traffic means its better for pulling out of junctions and traffic flow. As Gabalfa roundabout is when knobheads aren't flying around there at 30+.

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Some still will be some won't the difference between the fast and slow will be greater making it harder to judge and more crashes at junctions.

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Originally Posted by HiVis

of course it makes sense you're just not thinking clearly.

in a flow of traffic at 30mph the gaps between cars will be greater than if they are travelling at 20mph. All the dithering idiots waiting at junctions to join the flow of traffic, the gaps between cars are now going to be smaller, meaning they are less likely to join the traffic in an expeditious manner. Instead they'll wait for longer waiting for a gap that they feel comfortable joining.

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Be gentle he hasn't got a clue that one, have you read his posts, just ignore he'll never grasp it.

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Originally Posted by Rjk

and is that more prevalent at higher or lower speeds....

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At lower speeds densities become greater resulting in a compound effect, slowing down vehicles even more, resulting in greater densities.

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Originally Posted by HiVis

At lower speeds densities become greater resulting in a compound effect, slowing down vehicles even more, resulting in greater densities.

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then why do they lower motorway speeds at times of high traffic volume to avoid this type of traffic jam?

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Originally Posted by HiVis

of course it makes sense you're just not thinking clearly.

in a flow of traffic at 30mph the gaps between cars will be greater than if they are travelling at 20mph. All the dithering idiots waiting at junctions to join the flow of traffic, the gaps between cars are now going to be smaller, meaning they are less likely to join the traffic in an expeditious manner. Instead they'll wait for longer waiting for a gap that they feel comfortable joining.

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anyone who has ever driven a car can tell you that it's easier to join a flow of traffic at 20mph compared to 30mph.
apart from anything else at the more relaxed pace of 20mph I've noticed that people drive a lot more politely and are more likely to let people out.

by your logic should we increase the road speeds to 50 to help nervous drivers pull out of junctions?

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Originally Posted by HiVis

of course it makes sense you're just not thinking clearly.

in a flow of traffic at 30mph the gaps between cars will be greater than if they are travelling at 20mph. All the dithering idiots waiting at junctions to join the flow of traffic, the gaps between cars are now going to be smaller, meaning they are less likely to join the traffic in an expeditious manner. Instead they'll wait for longer waiting for a gap that they feel comfortable joining.

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It's easier to pull out into slower moving traffic, because you can reach their speed more quickly.

Mark Drakeford was not my choice to lead Labour in Wales but he has shown real leadership during his tenure. He provided consistent leadership during Covid, unlike the fools in Westminster, which was backed by the majority of people in Wales.

With the 20 mph limit he has shown true leadership. He is willing to be unpopular with a section of Welsh Society, the right wing press and the raving libertarians, to ensure to push through legislation that will benefit society in the long run. Contrast his leadership with Sunak and the Tories. Until recently they were all more than happy to display their green credentials and attend climate change summits and get their faces in the news showing how Green they are. Then came the Boris by-election, where they scrapped through on an anti-ULEZ vote. They realised that can get an extra few votes by being anti-green and now they are back tracking on all their promises. Therefore putting votes and trying to cling onto power ahead of the good of the country and the lives of future generations.

There have no idea of what leadership requires. It is easy to be popular and to pander to peoples prejudices, as in the case of Boris and the rest of his mob. It is much harder to undertake the less popular options that will take time to come to fruition but which benefit society.

I can remember the outcry when seat belts were made compulsory and the holding of phones when driving. Now most people will not consider driving without a seatbelt or hold a phone whilst driving. We all adjust and eventually get used to changes.

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Originally Posted by Rjk

anyone who has ever driven a car can tell you that it's easier to join a flow of traffic at 20mph compared to 30mph.
apart from anything else at the more relaxed pace of 20mph I've noticed that people drive a lot more politely and are more likely to let people out.

by your logic should we increase the road speeds to 50 to help nervous drivers pull out of junctions?

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That slows the traffic down even further, don't let people out, they wait for the gaps, keep the roads flowing.

Everyone so irate around my way you never get let out……:hehe:

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Originally Posted by 79blue

Mark Drakeford was not my choice to lead Labour in Wales but he has shown real leadership during his tenure. He provided consistent leadership during Covid, unlike the fools in Westminster, which was backed by the majority of people in Wales.

With the 20 mph limit he has shown true leadership. He is willing to be unpopular with a section of Welsh Society, the right wing press and the raving libertarians, to ensure to push through legislation that will benefit society in the long run. Contrast his leadership with Sunak and the Tories. Until recently they were all more than happy to display their green credentials and attend climate change summits and get their faces in the news showing how Green they are. Then came the Boris by-election, where they scrapped through on an anti-ULEZ vote. They realised that can get an extra few votes by being anti-green and now they are back tracking on all their promises. Therefore putting votes and trying to cling onto power ahead of the good of the country and the lives of future generations.

There have no idea of what leadership requires. It is easy to be popular and to pander to peoples prejudices, as in the case of Boris and the rest of his mob. It is much harder to undertake the less popular options that will take time to come to fruition but which benefit society.

I can remember the outcry when seat belts were made compulsory and the holding of phones when driving. Now most people will not consider driving without a seatbelt or hold a phone whilst driving. We all adjust and eventually get used to changes.

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Welsh Labour Party Press Release

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Welsh Labour Party Press Release

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Whatever it is it’s a damn sight more measured and sensible than some loons on here.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Welsh Labour Party Press Release

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From the one man defence of this Tory Govt.🤣🤣🤣

To be fair being better than Sunak , Truss or The bufoon doesnt make Drakeford any good.

The standard of politician at the front of British politics is utterly abysmal.

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Originally Posted by Dave Blue

Whatever it is it’s a damn sight more measured and sensible than some loons on here.

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It really isn't. Most of the country object to the imposition of 20mph where it isn't necessary. Its as simple as that. It's a bad policy decision.

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Originally Posted by Hilts

From the one man defence of this Tory Govt.🤣🤣🤣

To be fair being better than Sunak , Truss or The bufoon doesnt make Drakeford any good.

The standard of politician at the front of British politics is utterly abysmal.

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As I will point out again. It would only be a defence in the face of people like you who write unhinged stuff. No one is complimenting any govt here..they are pointing out that the WG probably have this policy wrong.

I suspect you probably know that yourself now really.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

As I will point out again. It would only be a defence in the face of people like you who write unhinged stuff. No one is complimenting any govt here..they are pointing out that the WG probably have this policy wrong.

I suspect you probably know that yourself now really.

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Sunak is doing a good job of calming things down, as is Starmer he won't go for any of this 20mph nonsense.

Boris, Corbyn, Truss, Sturgeon, Davies, Khan and Drakeford, are all useless and should be nowhere near power.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

As I will point out again. It would only be a defence in the face of people like you who write unhinged stuff. No one is complimenting any govt here..they are pointing out that the WG probably have this policy wrong.

I suspect you probably know that yourself now really.

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It's unpopular, that doesn't mean it is wrong.

I think it'll need to be assessed after it has been in place for a year at least before we can make a call on whether it is wrong or not

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Originally Posted by Rjk

It's unpopular, that doesn't mean it is wrong.

I think it'll need to be assessed after it has been in place for a year at least before we can make a call on whether it is wrong or not

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Another back peddler, he's seeing sense, Jesus it takes ages with some of them.

I think that's all of them now :thumbup:

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Originally Posted by North Cardiff Blue

Another back peddler, he's seeing sense, Jesus it takes ages with some of them.

I think that's all of them now :thumbup:

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I haven't back peddled on anything you strange little man

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Originally Posted by 79blue

Mark Drakeford was not my choice to lead Labour in Wales but he has shown real leadership during his tenure. He provided consistent leadership during Covid, unlike the fools in Westminster, which was backed by the majority of people in Wales.

With the 20 mph limit he has shown true leadership. He is willing to be unpopular with a section of Welsh Society, the right wing press and the raving libertarians, to ensure to push through legislation that will benefit society in the long run.

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...and what sort of mushrooms have you been gathering lately?

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Originally Posted by Rjk

I haven't back peddled on anything you strange little man

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You've been saying it's a good idea for ten pages, you can hardly say OK I've been a tit it is daft and caused Labour in Wales a massive problem, so to try and save face you've said "I think it'll need to be assessed"

Anyway well done, it sounds like that's already happening.

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Originally Posted by North Cardiff Blue

You've been saying it's a good idea for ten pages, you can hardly say OK I've been a tit it is daft and caused Labour in Wales a massive problem, so to try and save face you've said "I think it'll need to be assessed"

Anyway well done, it sounds like that's already happening.

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OK to explain myself more clearly, it's pointless trying to make any kind of judgement about it now, as it has only just been introduced, if after 12 months we can see that as expected deaths and serious injuries are significantly reduced, and only minimal amounts are added to journey times then that is the time to make an assessment of it.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Welsh Labour Party Press Release

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Sorry to burst your bubble but I have no affiliation with any political party. I am just a concerned citizen who has witnessed the country being wrecked by populist fools and charlatans over the last decade. We have ruled by people who are in it only for self enhancement. At least Drakeford has the balls to try to improve society, even if it makes him unpopular. Whether you like his politics or not, you should admit that he is brave.

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Originally Posted by HiVis

of course it makes sense you're just not thinking clearly.

in a flow of traffic at 30mph the gaps between cars will be greater than if they are travelling at 20mph. All the dithering idiots waiting at junctions to join the flow of traffic, the gaps between cars are now going to be smaller, meaning they are less likely to join the traffic in an expeditious manner. Instead they'll wait for longer waiting for a gap that they feel comfortable joining.

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Sorry but this is just total nonsense. It's easier to get out in a 20 than a 30, people still need stopping distances and so on. Well, most people, who aren't looking to crash or run people over (so excluding a few in this thread).

I'm probably about a year ahead of a lot of people on here as all of the roads nearest to me changed to 20 some time ago. You get used to it after a week or so.

To sum this thread up, old people don't like change. I believe a straw poll of the demographic of this board was done fairly recently.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

It really isn't. Most of the country object to the imposition of 20mph where it isn't necessary. Its as simple as that. It's a bad policy decision.

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The country voted for it. It was in both the Welsh Labour and Plaid Cymru manifestos.

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Originally Posted by Maurice Swan

...and what sort of mushrooms have you been gathering lately?

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Unfortunately I am not in a position to gather mushrooms as I am unable to walk due to Motor Neurone Disease.

A more considered reply would have been appreciated.

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Originally Posted by Rjk

then why do they lower motorway speeds at times of high traffic volume to avoid this type of traffic jam?

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It's an attempt to stem the flow of traffic arriving at the density wave, at a rate thats less than the traffic leaving the density wave. It doesn't work in practice because a density wave only collapses when the objects caught therein can escape. It has nothing to do with entry speed.

Traffic management seemingly know little of density wave theory.