Talking of Takeover's - Gareth Bale part 2 UPDATED

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Originally Posted by jon1959

Unless I have misunderstood Tan has put in £250m (ish) and owns a League One club with some assets and some liabilities (including debts to himself) that has a probable value of 20% or less of what he has put in.

You are both talking as if some of the club income over the past 15 years has gone in to Tan’s pocket - not through the club accounts.

I don’t think that is so. I don’t know why you think that has happened or is even possible. Any monies repaid to Tan would have to be shown in the annual accounts - and they haven’t. He has put a ridiculous amount in over 15 years, has taken nothing out, and has made shit decisions that have taken the club (and its value) backwards.

But I’ll leave it there. I am not an accountant and this ‘discussion’ is going nowhere.

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So if it’s been put in the club’s accounts, it’s been used by the club for transfer fees, wages, day to day running etc. Someone above quoted that we’ve received about £250 million from various sources during his tenure, if that’s true and he’s put in about the same + Dalman’s loans that’s over half a billion quid!!!!! Something’s not adding up.

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Originally Posted by splott parker

So if it’s been put in the club’s accounts, it’s been used by the club for transfer fees, wages, day to day running etc. Someone above quoted that we’ve received about £250 million from various sources during his tenure, if that’s true and he’s put in about the same + Dalman’s loans that’s over half a billion quid!!!!! Something’s not adding up.

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It is quite easy to quantify when up to 90% of your turnover are wages and salaries alone.

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Originally Posted by Mr Ducie

It is quite easy to quantify when up to 90% of your turnover are wages and salaries alone.

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So does it mean we’ve gone through over £500 million in the last 10 years or so? Split between the owner’s input & various payouts from outside sources.

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Originally Posted by City123

About this time last year Martin Shipton & Will Hayward effectively brought down the First Minister through Nation Cymru & Wales Online

The standard of journalism has declined but I don't see how replacing it with AI is going to make any of our lives better. Anyway that's beyond the scope of this thread. Hopefully Bale's consortium take over if only to bring a little buzz back

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AI is slop and I think ill of anyone that uses it. It's absolute garbage, often wrong and open to manipulation. It won't replace proper journalism, mainly because it can't.

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Originally Posted by splott parker

So if it’s been put in the club’s accounts, it’s been used by the club for transfer fees, wages, day to day running etc. Someone above quoted that we’ve received about £250 million from various sources during his tenure, if that’s true and he’s put in about the same + Dalman’s loans that’s over half a billion quid!!!!! Something’s not adding up.

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Our wage bill was over 30m a year for most of the time he's been here. That's where it's gone. It was 42.5m in 2018/19 for example, and was 31.2m in 17/18. That's your half a billion quid right there.

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Originally Posted by jon1959

Unless I have misunderstood Tan has put in £250m (ish) and owns a League One club with some assets and some liabilities (including debts to himself) that has a probable value of 20% or less of what he has put in.

You are both talking as if some of the club income over the past 15 years has gone in to Tan’s pocket - not through the club accounts.

I don’t think that is so. I don’t know why you think that has happened or is even possible. Any monies repaid to Tan would have to be shown in the annual accounts - and they haven’t. He has put a ridiculous amount in over 15 years, has taken nothing out, and has made shit decisions that have taken the club (and its value) backwards.

But I’ll leave it there. I am not an accountant and this ‘discussion’ is going nowhere.

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If he’s really lost £15 million a year then he’s either insane or ridiculously rich and clearly it means nothing whatever happens really

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Originally Posted by goats

But he can’t have put in £15 million a year can he? He’s had money back to, probably more than £250 million? Wasn’t it almost £200 million alone the last time we got promoted with the parachutes? I reckon he’s lost about £5 million a year which is entirely his own making really but listening to no one whilst having little clue about football business. If I did the same thing running my own business I’d have to suck it up too….is he still sitting on his nice big boat talking about 10 years in the PL? Talk about head in the sand…..

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Having just had a quick look through the independently audited annual accounts for the 14 year period from the May 2011 accounts to the May 2024 ones (the most recent ones on the public register) , Vincent Tan has invested a net sum of £206m into the club. He then converted £120m of this into shares to reduce the loan repayable and wrote off a further £10m as well. This took the balance owed to him down to the £76m figure shown in the 31 May 2024 balance sheet.

Whatever his faults - and there are many in the way he controls and runs the club well worthy of criticism - not investing very heavily to the above extent is not a criticism that can fairly be made .Also . he has never paid himself interest on any of those loans.

I think in your post where you refer to income figures you are completely forgetting against the costs of running the club (player wages are high enough for a start) which are offset against that income. In every year bar one , the club made a net loss in each of those 14 years because of those costs.

Just as a point of interest the total club income over those 14 years came to £574m which is only an average of £41m. If you strip out the exceptional income years of 2019 (£125m) and 2014 (£83m) then the average income over the other 12 years comes comes down a lot to £30m

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Originally Posted by goats

If he’s really lost £15 million a year then he’s either insane or ridiculously rich and clearly it means nothing whatever happens really

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The average net investment in cash he has put in calculates as £14.7m a year over 14 years and totals £206m. he then converted £120m of that into shares and wrote off another £10m

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Originally Posted by Ninian1962

Having just had a quick look through the independently audited annual accounts for the 14 year period from the May 2011 accounts to the May 2024 ones (the most recent ones on the public register) , Vincent Tan has invested a net sum of £206m into the club. He then converted £120m of this into shares to reduce the loan repayable and wrote off a further £10m as well. This took the balance owed to him down to the £76m figure shown in the 31 May 2024 balance sheet.

Whatever his faults - and there are many in the way he controls and runs the club well worthy of criticism - not investing very heavily to the above extent is not a criticism that can fairly be made .Also . he has never paid himself interest on any of those loans.

I think in your post where you refer to income figures you are completely forgetting against the costs of running the club (player wages are high enough for a start) which are offset against that income. In every year bar one , the club made a net loss in each of those 14 years because of those costs.

Just as a point of interest the total club income over those 14 years came to £574m which is only an average of £41m. If you strip out the exceptional income years of 2019 (£125m) and 2014 (£83m) then the average income over the other 12 years comes comes down a lot to £30m

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Keith, are the current value / ownership of shares known. For example, the £120m conversion you mention above would be on top of what pre-existing value of shares?

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Originally Posted by Des Parrot

Keith, are the current value / ownership of shares known. For example, the £120m conversion you mention above would be on top of what pre-existing value of shares?

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The total cost of shares in issue in the May 2024 accounts was just over £150m. That includes a share premium of around £15m because the shares are 10p shares but most had a conversion/issue rate of about 15.7p

The club is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. The debt is another matter. That's Tan's problem and he's going to have to negotiate. If he's stupid enough to think he can dig out of this mess by himself, we're ****ed.