EUROS FINAL. FT: ENGLAND 1 - 2 SPAIN

Commentators almost celebrating Man City Rodri's injury whilst not really appreciating that some Spanish clubs Zubimendi is a good bloody player that will just slot into the "team" almost seamlessly.

That's where Spain won this for me, just a great team throughout and played as one. They are better technically when under pressure too but ultimately they played to their strengths and seemed completely comfortable with what they were trying to do.

Second half they really should have been out of sight.

I feel for Southgate a bit, always seems a really decent guy.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

I disagree. Traditionally, England have been a more physical, power based team that did not seem to place technique as high up their list of priorities as most other international teams did, but that’s changed gradually to the extent that I would say they now have a squad that is as technically proficient as most others in the world. It’s clear that England’s record since the 2016s Euros places them among the very top teams in Europe and their tournament record recently has them probably in the top five in the world.

It’s great that what has generally been a pretty miserable tournament has been won by the team that wanted to play front foot football no matter who the opposition was. Spain were the best team in the competition in terms of results and performance, but I’d still say it was an opportunity wasted for England because they had a man in charge who just would not release the handbrake as far as playing to what should have been England’s strengths was concerned.

As England went further in the competition and the performances improved to some degree, those who, rightly, were critical of Gareth Southgate found themselves under fire as if his approach had been vindicated - it hadn’t in my view, England made it to the Final despite Gareth Southgate, not because of him.

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I don't accept that England are now as technically proficient as the rest of the top teams in the world. Nearly every team they've come up against this tournament has at times displayed a level of composure and vision on the ball that seems to be beyond English players. And we're not just talking about Spain. At times Slovenia, Slovakia and Denmark made English players look so uncomfortable in and out of possession. If they were that accomplished technically they would not have looked so decidedly second-rate.

Over the years English players have improved their ball skills and maintained their physicality but it doesn't appear to be in their DNA to play with the same finesse as the serial tournament winners. A change of manager may or may not help them but I wouldn't put money on the new manager being able to take them to the next level.

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Originally Posted by Moodybluebird

I don't accept that England are now as technically proficient as the rest of the top teams in the world. Nearly every team they've come up against this tournament has at times displayed a level of composure and vision on the ball that seems to be beyond English players. And we're not just talking about Spain. At times Slovenia, Slovakia and Denmark made English players look so uncomfortable in and out of possession. If they were that accomplished technically they would not have looked so decidedly second-rate.

Over the years English players have improved their ball skills and maintained their physicality but it doesn't appear to be in their DNA to play with the same finesse as the serial tournament winners. A change of manager may or may not help them but I wouldn't put money on the new manager being able to take them to the next level.

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I'd say I'd agree with a bit of both of you.

England players can probably do what any of the Spanish players can. But just as being a freestyler doesn't mean you'll be any use in a team, the England players haven't learned how to do it as a team.

Spain can move the ball around with their eyes closed. England can't. It's not that English players are not as good at passing, there is something deeper that's different.

Your last paragraph is spot on. Even the Spanish goalkeeper was dissecting the English midfield with his passing ! Spain's passing is not telegraphed. Watching on TV I had no idea who they were going to pass the ball to next, nor I suspect did the English players. Can this almost telepathic understanding be taught ? I really don't know but it seems to be the difference between good sides and great sides.

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Originally Posted by BLUETIT

You said:—-
“Apart from probabaly Spain, more English players have won the Champions League in the last 10 years than the rest of the countries you mention.”

Without going into it in depth, although Chelsea, Liverpool, Man City, Manure have won the European Cup, their teams didn’t comprise of mainly English players .
I would hazard a guess that it was about half and half

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Go back to bed. You dont even rate Nico Williams. A sensible football debate is impossible with someone who sees the game as you do.

England have as much talent as any other team in this competition.
their tactics meant that most of the time they were trying to attack against set defences and with their lone striker gone AWOL .

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Originally Posted by splott parker

You’ve mentioned 4 Man City players as multiple Premier League winners, very good players yes, but surrounded by non UK team mates with a Spanish manager. It’s been proved time and time again that a team of 100% Englishmen aren’t up to winning a tournament. They have had esteemed non English managers in the past and it was still the same outcome.

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There are more English players in the Man City team than any other single country, yet its Man City winning PL after PL in spite of the English players not because of them? Come on, be sensible.

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

If you had to take a guess, what would you say i meant?

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No idea. There could be a scale where there are A, AA and AAA footballing nations for all I know. As England haven't won anything for well over half a century and as there are other teams at a standard above them a simple explanation wouldn't go amiss.

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Originally Posted by Kind of Blue

I think England “deserved” the last Euros more than this one in what I’d watched of it. Although in ‘21 they had a hell of a lot of home field advantage, this tournement they had one of the easiest routes to a final for a major nation and were fairly underwhelming throughout. Only play what’s in front of you etc.

Anyway, I had a very nice evening having a meal in Italy instead of watching the match. Didn’t pass a single place tonight that looked remotely like they’d be playing the game. You’d never know a Euros final was on.

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I watched the quarters in Italy and really had to go looking for places to watch it. Was told once Italy get knocked out they are no longer interested

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Originally Posted by Henry Hill

There are more English players in the Man City team than any other single country, yet its Man City winning PL after PL in spite of the English players not because of them? Come on, be sensible.

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There are only TWO English players who are regulars in the Man City first team, Foden and Walker. Stones was in and out of the team last season, same as Grealish. In effect they are a multi-national team, with no nationality being more dominant than another.

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

No idea. There could be a scale where there are A, AA and AAA footballing nations for all I know. As England haven't won anything for well over half a century and as there are other teams at a standard above them a simple explanation wouldn't go amiss.

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Are the batteries inserted up their rear ends ?

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Originally Posted by fugsyphil

I watched the quarters in Italy and really had to go looking for places to watch it. Was told once Italy get knocked out they are no longer interested

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Yeah, assumed that must’ve been the case. Also been a little surprised how few English (or British) people I’ve heard or seen here so far (feels like it’s been mainly Italians and Yanks). Not a single shirt etc last night, although a few Spanish flags draped about shoulders.

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Originally Posted by Moodybluebird

There are only TWO English players who are regulars in the Man City first team, Foden and Walker. Stones was in and out of the team last season, same as Grealish. In effect they are a multi-national team, with no nationality being more dominant than another.

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Well said young sir/madam/they/etc, etc,etc :thumbup:

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Originally Posted by Henry Hill

Go back to bed. You dont even rate Nico Williams. A sensible football debate is impossible with someone who sees the game as you do.

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At what point did I say I didn’t rate him ?

I only pointed out, that there was very rarely a finished product to all his work ethic

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Originally Posted by Moodybluebird

There are only TWO English players who are regulars in the Man City first team, Foden and Walker. Stones was in and out of the team last season, same as Grealish. In effect they are a multi-national team, with no nationality being more dominant than another.

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Pretty sure Stones had a number of injuries during 2023/24.

I thought England came out of that pretty well to be honest. It took conceding (again) to make changes and get on the front foot, but if that beautiful second goal had been just the other side of a kneecap then it was still game-on. I would have still bet on Spain to win it but I wouldn't have been putting the house on it.

Spain were a level above England but I struggle to even think of the length of the gap with Wales. Is there something longer than light-years ?

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Originally Posted by caerkid

I thought England came out of that pretty well to be honest. It took conceding (again) to make changes and get on the front foot, but if that beautiful second goal had been just the other side of a kneecap then it was still game-on. I would have still bet on Spain to win it but I wouldn't have been putting the house on it.

Spain were a level above England but I struggle to even think of the length of the gap with Wales. Is there something longer than light-years ?

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No point dragging Wales into the debate. With our very small pool of players we know our place in the grand scheme of things.

England's attack just didn't make any sense, very little to do with the skill levels of the players involved I'd say, but a coaching and tactics issue.
they were fortunate to et the the final in both the games and the way the draw panned out for them. They were relatively decent in the last 2 tournaments, but definitely not as good this time.
if they have any sense they'll take the opportunity to bring some fresh ideas in

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Originally Posted by Moodybluebird

There are only TWO English players who are regulars in the Man City first team, Foden and Walker. Stones was in and out of the team last season, same as Grealish. In effect they are a multi-national team, with no nationality being more dominant than another.

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Both Stones and Grealish were injured a fair bit last season. They both started the Champions Legaue final and were certainly regulars and in the first choice XI for the important games in the treble winning team of 2022/23.

Stones when fit is definitely a 1st choice player at Man City when fit.

I think Foden and Bellingham have been below their best at the tournament. Kane obviously miles off his best.

I think Gordon has a right to be upset that he didn't get more opportunities.

tldr: Henry Winter - Southgate must go

https://talksport.com/football/19619...ro-2024-final/

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Originally Posted by Hilts

I think Foden and Bellingham have been below their best at the tournament. Kane obviously miles off his best.

I think Gordon has a right to be upset that he didn't get more opportunities.

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Toney and Watkins will be glad to see the back of Southgate too. Kane wasnt fit all tournament yet he still kept getting selected. People can say the Kane should have pulled himself out of the games for the good of the team but if Southgate had anything about him he would have taken the decision out of Kanes hands.

I don’t know if it’s Kane not being fit as much as he was trying to play in the exact same space that Foden and Bellingham were for most of the tournament. Seems to me like it’s maybe a convenient excuse at this point for a player whose game has never been based on his speed and physicality.

Whatever the truth, it was obvious very early on that Watkins or Toney would have been a far better option in terms of form and tactical fit.

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Originally Posted by Moodybluebird

I don't accept that England are now as technically proficient as the rest of the top teams in the world. Nearly every team they've come up against this tournament has at times displayed a level of composure and vision on the ball that seems to be beyond English players. And we're not just talking about Spain. At times Slovenia, Slovakia and Denmark made English players look so uncomfortable in and out of possession. If they were that accomplished technically they would not have looked so decidedly second-rate.

Over the years English players have improved their ball skills and maintained their physicality but it doesn't appear to be in their DNA to play with the same finesse as the serial tournament winners. A change of manager may or may not help them but I wouldn't put money on the new manager being able to take them to the next level.

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At times, it was like watching Cardiff ...