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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Netanyahu admits ‘tragic mistake’ - The Telegraph
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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
What about the other tens of thousands of killed civilians, Netanyahu? Not to mention the tragic living conditions for those lucky enough to survive.
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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Another beneficial aspect of the Biden peace proposals?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cz55y6k0p5go
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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
'Below is a letter signed by ten Holocaust survivors condemning the genocide in Gaza and the misuse of antisemitism accusations by politicians'.
https://mondoweiss.net/2024/06/ten-h...gaza-genocide/
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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Palestinian anger towards Hamas grows. Citing hiding in and around residential areas etc.
Good. They have bought such suffering on their people
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0vewvp14zdo
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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
ISIS tactics, schools, hospitals, and houses, horrendous situation, where will it ever end?
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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
I think the problem up until now is that normal Palestinians have been too afraid to speak up but things have got to a point where they just don’t care anymore and are calling them out for what they are.
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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
Jon so glad you posted this i was unable to do do,what a terrible war crime this is.
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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
One of the earliest and biggest tests for Starmer and Lammy - stop the arms sales, refund UNRWA, respect the ICC.
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...eech-amendment
International law and basic morality are clear - but I am not confident.
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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
stevo
I think the problem up until now is that normal Palestinians have been too afraid to speak up but things have got to a point where they just don’t care anymore and are calling them out for what they are.
Sadly too little, too late. How many times have we seen weeping Palestinian mothers holding the corpses of their children and asking what did he/she do to deserve this? The answer of course is nothing but is 100% down to the actions of Hamas.
We often hear that the IDF act in response to "specific intelligence" - does this mean that there are Israeli spies living amongst the Palestinians or are some of the Palestinians acting as spies for the IDF? As long as Hamas are embedded amongst the population there will be no end to the conflict. Having said that I completely get it, as I have written in previous posts, what would you or I do if a militant group decided to set up a missile launcher in my back yard or store weapons in my house? I don't think a refusal would be taken too kindly.
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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gofer Blue
Sadly too little, too late. How many times have we seen weeping Palestinian mothers holding the corpses of their children and asking what did he/she do to deserve this? The answer of course is nothing but is 100% down to the actions of Hamas.
We often hear that the IDF act in response to "specific intelligence" - does this mean that there are Israeli spies living amongst the Palestinians or are some of the Palestinians acting as spies for the IDF? As long as Hamas are embedded amongst the population there will be no end to the conflict. Having said that I completely get it, as I have written in previous posts, what would you or I do if a militant group decided to set up a missile launcher in my back yard or store weapons in my house? I don't think a refusal would be taken too kindly.
True they do have no choice,probably better to wait until the IDF turn up.
A terrible situation for them to be in.
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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gofer Blue
Sadly too little, too late. How many times have we seen weeping Palestinian mothers holding the corpses of their children and asking what did he/she do to deserve this? The answer of course is nothing but is 100% down to the actions of Hamas.
We often hear that the IDF act in response to "specific intelligence" - does this mean that there are Israeli spies living amongst the Palestinians or are some of the Palestinians acting as spies for the IDF? As long as Hamas are embedded amongst the population there will be no end to the conflict. Having said that I completely get it, as I have written in previous posts, what would you or I do if a militant group decided to set up a missile launcher in my back yard or store weapons in my house? I don't think a refusal would be taken too kindly.
I didn't have you down as such a crass apologist for the perpetrators of daily war crimes and genocide!
Hamas and the other Islamist organisations are often violent and always authoritarian. They forced the secular Fatah/PLO out of Gaza (with plenty of help from Likud and especially Netanyahu doing their 'divide and rule' act) and have at times used intimidation and violence to maintain their position. They were guilty of war crimes on 7 October 2023. But Hamas is part of the population of Gaza. There is no where else for them to go. They are doctors, nurses, police, administrators, sewage workers and also fighters. They are not embedded (as a journalist might be), they are part of an overcrowded and strangled concentration camp.
When it comes to the daily killing (dismembering, burning, crushing) of Palestinian civilians (especially the 15,000 plus children) it is 100% down to the actions of Israel - the IDF/IOF. And there is a mountain of evidence that this is not 'just' down to mistakes, or 'collateral damage' where murdering a hundred non-combatants is acceptable if there is a chance of also killing a Palestinian fighter. It is clear that many of these civilian deaths are the result of a government policy of killing, terrorising and making life impossible in order to clear Gaza for Israeli Jewish occupation. The ruling coalition have not been shy of boasting about this aim.
Israel has been 'mowing the grass' in Gaza for decades - remember the white phosphorus, the murder of kids playing football on the beach, the bombing of residential blocks - and has been murdering (through settlers or the IDF) in increasing numbers on the West Bank as part of its ethnic cleansing plans (no Hamas there).
Hamas and Islamic Jihad are guilty of their crimes and Israel is guilty of its crimes. And Israel (with its UK/US/German supplied arms) is already at 40x the death toll achieved by Hamas. So no - the corpses of Palestinian children in their mothers arms are not there because of the actions of Hamas. To pretend that is dishonest and shameful!
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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
I didn't have you down as such a crass apologist for the perpetrators of daily war crimes and genocide!
Hamas and the other Islamist organisations are often violent and always authoritarian. They forced the secular Fatah/PLO out of Gaza (with plenty of help from Likud and especially Netanyahu doing their 'divide and rule' act) and have at times used intimidation and violence to maintain their position. They were guilty of war crimes on 7 October 2023. But Hamas is part of the population of Gaza. There is no where else for them to go. They are doctors, nurses, police, administrators, sewage workers and also fighters. They are not embedded (as a journalist might be), they are part of an overcrowded and strangled concentration camp.
When it comes to the daily killing (dismembering, burning, crushing) of Palestinian civilians (especially the 15,000 plus children) it is 100% down to the actions of Israel - the IDF/IOF. And there is a mountain of evidence that this is not 'just' down to mistakes, or 'collateral damage' where murdering a hundred non-combatants is acceptable if there is a chance of also killing a Palestinian fighter. It is clear that many of these civilian deaths are the result of a government policy of killing, terrorising and making life impossible in order to clear Gaza for Israeli Jewish occupation. The ruling coalition have not been shy of boasting about this aim.
Israel has been 'mowing the grass' in Gaza for decades - remember the white phosphorus, the murder of kids playing football on the beach, the bombing of residential blocks - and has been murdering (through settlers or the IDF) in increasing numbers on the West Bank as part of its ethnic cleansing plans (no Hamas there).
Hamas and Islamic Jihad are guilty of their crimes and Israel is guilty of its crimes. And Israel (with its UK/US/German supplied arms) is already at 40x the death toll achieved by Hamas. So no - the corpses of Palestinian children in their mothers arms are not there because of the actions of Hamas. To pretend that is dishonest and shameful!
Not a rational response to Gofers comment.
I know it's warm today, but overheating and going OTT on what is a reasonable comment is pointless.
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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
I didn't have you down as such a crass apologist for the perpetrators of daily war crimes and genocide!
Hamas and the other Islamist organisations are often violent and always authoritarian. They forced the secular Fatah/PLO out of Gaza (with plenty of help from Likud and especially Netanyahu doing their 'divide and rule' act) and have at times used intimidation and violence to maintain their position. They were guilty of war crimes on 7 October 2023. But Hamas is part of the population of Gaza. There is no where else for them to go. They are doctors, nurses, police, administrators, sewage workers and also fighters. They are not embedded (as a journalist might be), they are part of an overcrowded and strangled concentration camp.
When it comes to the daily killing (dismembering, burning, crushing) of Palestinian civilians (especially the 15,000 plus children) it is 100% down to the actions of Israel - the IDF/IOF. And there is a mountain of evidence that this is not 'just' down to mistakes, or 'collateral damage' where murdering a hundred non-combatants is acceptable if there is a chance of also killing a Palestinian fighter. It is clear that many of these civilian deaths are the result of a government policy of killing, terrorising and making life impossible in order to clear Gaza for Israeli Jewish occupation. The ruling coalition have not been shy of boasting about this aim.
Israel has been 'mowing the grass' in Gaza for decades - remember the white phosphorus, the murder of kids playing football on the beach, the bombing of residential blocks - and has been murdering (through settlers or the IDF) in increasing numbers on the West Bank as part of its ethnic cleansing plans (no Hamas there).
Hamas and Islamic Jihad are guilty of their crimes and Israel is guilty of its crimes. And Israel (with its UK/US/German supplied arms) is already at 40x the death toll achieved by Hamas. So no - the corpses of Palestinian children in their mothers arms are not there because of the actions of Hamas. To pretend that is dishonest and shameful!
Top post again Jon. :thumbup:
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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
truthpaste
Not a rational response to Gofers comment.
I know it's warm today, but overheating and going OTT on what is a reasonable comment is pointless.
Nothing reasonable about the comment at all. Hamas are not 100% responsible for the war crimes of Israel. I'm disappointed that Gofer has bought into that warped way of thinking. It gives cover for continued genocide. As a supporter of ethnic cleansing I would have expected it from you - but I hoped for better from Gofer given his previous comments on Israel/Palestine.
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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gofer Blue
Sadly too little, too late. How many times have we seen weeping Palestinian mothers holding the corpses of their children and asking what did he/she do to deserve this? The answer of course is nothing but is 100% down to the actions of Hamas.
We often hear that the IDF act in response to "specific intelligence" - does this mean that there are Israeli spies living amongst the Palestinians or are some of the Palestinians acting as spies for the IDF? As long as Hamas are embedded amongst the population there will be no end to the conflict. Having said that I completely get it, as I have written in previous posts, what would you or I do if a militant group decided to set up a missile launcher in my back yard or store weapons in my house? I don't think a refusal would be taken too kindly.
MOSSAD is embedded in many states (including the UK). It's scary just how much influence they have. Have you even heard of Pegasus?
https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2...illance-device
Weird how the IDF know who everyone is yet they need to kill 1000's of innocent people and destroy vital life-supporting infrastructure to achieve their aims in GAZA. Also really weird how the HAMAS attacks were never flagged and prevented in the first place. Israel has one of the most complex and aggressive surveillance agencies in the world.
Who's profiting? Oh look.....manufacturers of death products (US/UK). https://caat.org.uk/news/new-stats-s...-in-the-world/
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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
I realise that those figures only go up to 2020 re. arms sales but it doesn't take much of leap to deduce that sales will have increased re. Ukraine and Israel from 2020.
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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
Nothing reasonable about the comment at all. Hamas are not 100% responsible for the war crimes of Israel. I'm disappointed that Gofer has bought into that warped way of thinking. It gives cover for continued genocide. As a supporter of ethnic cleansing I would have expected it from you - but I hoped for better from Gofer given his previous comments on Israel/Palestine.
They could have prevented their own people being murdered by not sanctioning the slaughter of people at a festival, not kidnapping people and refusing to release them and not hiding their operatives amongst the men, women and children of Gaza mind.
More progress would likely have been made if many of the protesters in the west has recognised these facts a bit more.
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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
They could have prevented their own people being murdered by not sanctioning the slaughter of people at a festival, not kidnapping people and refusing to release them and not hiding their operatives amongst the men, women and children of Gaza mind.
More progress would likely have been made if many of the protesters in the west has recognised these facts a bit more.
Another apologist. No surprise!
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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
Another apologist. No surprise!
As if. Its all abhorrant. I'm just saying more lives would likely have been saved if your fellow protesters had pushed more for peace and less for being anti Israel.
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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
I didn't have you down as such a crass apologist for the perpetrators of daily war crimes and genocide!
Hamas and the other Islamist organisations are often violent and always authoritarian. They forced the secular Fatah/PLO out of Gaza (with plenty of help from Likud and especially Netanyahu doing their 'divide and rule' act) and have at times used intimidation and violence to maintain their position. They were guilty of war crimes on 7 October 2023. But Hamas is part of the population of Gaza. There is no where else for them to go. They are doctors, nurses, police, administrators, sewage workers and also fighters. They are not embedded (as a journalist might be), they are part of an overcrowded and strangled concentration camp.
When it comes to the daily killing (dismembering, burning, crushing) of Palestinian civilians (especially the 15,000 plus children) it is 100% down to the actions of Israel - the IDF/IOF. And there is a mountain of evidence that this is not 'just' down to mistakes, or 'collateral damage' where murdering a hundred non-combatants is acceptable if there is a chance of also killing a Palestinian fighter. It is clear that many of these civilian deaths are the result of a government policy of killing, terrorising and making life impossible in order to clear Gaza for Israeli Jewish occupation. The ruling coalition have not been shy of boasting about this aim.
Israel has been 'mowing the grass' in Gaza for decades - remember the white phosphorus, the murder of kids playing football on the beach, the bombing of residential blocks - and has been murdering (through settlers or the IDF) in increasing numbers on the West Bank as part of its ethnic cleansing plans (no Hamas there).
Hamas and Islamic Jihad are guilty of their crimes and Israel is guilty of its crimes. And Israel (with its UK/US/German supplied arms) is already at 40x the death toll achieved by Hamas. So no - the corpses of Palestinian children in their mothers arms are not there because of the actions of Hamas. To pretend that is dishonest and shameful!
Wow. I suppose it must be very non-PC these days then to even dare to question the role of Hamas in the destruction of Palestine as you immediately label me as a crass apologist for the IDF. Lets be straight here – both sides have blood on their hands and I condemn them both.
Do you deny then that Hamas fighters are hiding in (or under) buildings housing ordinary Palestinians? You admit that Hamas use violence and intimidation to maintain their position, so should it be a surprise that they would use such intimidation to hide behind civilians in their homes, schools and hospitals? Of course they have a grievance against Israel for all the years of suppression but they should have known full well what the Israeli response to the events of October 2023 would be.
The whole situation is a tragedy and I cannot see any end to it. I watch Al Jazeera most days and it breaks my heart to see, in particular, the children who are suffering and traumatised by the daily onslaught. (This is why I have written to my M.P. about some kind of Kinder-transport for orphaned Palestinian into European countries including the U.K. but only got a negative response sadly).
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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gofer Blue
Wow. I suppose it must be very non-PC these days then to even dare to question the role of Hamas in the destruction of Palestine as you immediately label me as a crass apologist for the IDF. Lets be straight here – both sides have blood on their hands and I condemn them both.
Do you deny then that Hamas fighters are hiding in (or under) buildings housing ordinary Palestinians? You admit that Hamas use violence and intimidation to maintain their position, so should it be a surprise that they would use such intimidation to hide behind civilians in their homes, schools and hospitals? Of course they have a grievance against Israel for all the years of suppression but they should have known full well what the Israeli response to the events of October 2023 would be.
The whole situation is a tragedy and I cannot see any end to it. I watch Al Jazeera most days and it breaks my heart to see, in particular, the children who are suffering and traumatised by the daily onslaught. (This is why I have written to my M.P. about some kind of Kinder-transport for orphaned Palestinian into European countries including the U.K. but only got a negative response sadly).
I don't care about PC or non PC.
I think everyone has a right to question (and condemn if they choose) the actions or even the existence of Hamas.
But you claimed that the death (murder) of Palestinian children is '100% down to the actions of Hamas'.
Not Israel.
That is what I responded to and what I called a 'crass apologist' claim. That is what it is.
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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gofer Blue
Wow. I suppose it must be very non-PC these days then to even dare to question the role of Hamas in the destruction of Palestine as you immediately label me as a crass apologist for the IDF. Lets be straight here – both sides have blood on their hands and I condemn them both.
Do you deny then that Hamas fighters are hiding in (or under) buildings housing ordinary Palestinians? You admit that Hamas use violence and intimidation to maintain their position, so should it be a surprise that they would use such intimidation to hide behind civilians in their homes, schools and hospitals? Of course they have a grievance against Israel for all the years of suppression but they should have known full well what the Israeli response to the events of October 2023 would be.
The whole situation is a tragedy and I cannot see any end to it. I watch Al Jazeera most days and it breaks my heart to see, in particular, the children who are suffering and traumatised by the daily onslaught. (This is why I have written to my M.P. about some kind of Kinder-transport for orphaned Palestinian into European countries including the U.K. but only got a negative response sadly).
I note that you have mentioned a couple of times about Palestinian children being brought to the UK but wouldn't they find Arabic countries less alien?
