Re: Disabled but fit for work? - Make a will
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gluey wrote on Fri, 28 August 2015 16:15
Has anyone ever died whilst working who hasn't needed to have these assessments? Or is it only those who have assessments that die?
Re: Disabled but fit for work? - Make a will
Re: Disabled but fit for work? - Make a will
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feedback wrote on Fri, 28 August 2015 16:22
http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/hehe.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gluey wrote on Fri, 28 August 2015 16:15
You really do type some dross. The stats were presented in a fair format.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feedback wrote on Fri, 28 August 2015 16:05
I'd like to see further analysis as there may well be truth in what you claim, and if substantiated then government policy would need to be changed. However without that further analysis it's just not possible to form an opinion either way
What's that got to do with it? http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/sherlock.gif
Re: Disabled but fit for work? - Make a will
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gluey wrote on Fri, 28 August 2015 16:57
http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/hehe.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feedback wrote on Fri, 28 August 2015 16:22
You really do type some dross. The stats were presented in a fair format.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gluey wrote on Fri, 28 August 2015 16:15
I'd like to see further analysis as there may well be truth in what you claim, and if substantiated then government policy would need to be changed. However without that further analysis it's just not possible to form an opinion either way
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feedback wrote on Fri, 28 August 2015 16:05
I doubt very much we are seeing terminally ill people being signed off as fit for work. I suspect we are seeing people who are deemed fit for work as per the assessment who then proceed to die from causes unrelated to their illness or disability
Re: Disabled but fit for work? - Make a will
Quote:
Originally Posted by Auntie Andy wrote on Thu, 27 August 2015 20:34
How would you feel Feedy if this was your brother?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feedback wrote on Thu, 27 August 2015 20:29
Unfortunately there are the many scroungers, who 'play at that', along with the usual 'bad back' and 'migraines' when not genuinely ill at all that leads to a generally suspicious overview, which sadly leads to the genuinely ill being affected.
Re: Disabled but fit for work? - Make a will
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feedback wrote on Fri, 28 August 2015 15:42
Gluey
Anyone remember what Feedback's response to the fictional sanctions stories was?
Re: Disabled but fit for work? - Make a will
"
it is your baseline. you are making the assumption that these people have died as a result of their illness and therefore should not have been working. However the cause of death is important here because if it is unrelated to their illness then the fit for work test is irrelevant.
I doubt very much we are seeing terminally ill people being signed off as fit for work. I suspect we are seeing people who are deemed fit for work as per the assessment who then proceed to die from causes unrelated to their illness or disability"
I am very tempted to say "bollocks" but if I did I expect that you would ask what evidence I based that statement on http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/getmycoat.gif
"I doubt very much we are seeing terminally ill people being signed off as fit for work."
And you are basing the above statement on what evidence ?
The long & the short of it is that nearly 100 people per month, who are diagnosed as not fit for work by health professionals, die within 2 weeks of being deemed fit for work by the DWP.
Is there a part of that that you don"t understand ?
If you were a reasonably fit & healthy individual with no long term health problems, be they physical or mental, would you expect to die within 2 weeks of being told that you are fit for work http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/sherlock.gif
headlight
Re: Disabled but fit for work? - Make a will
Quote:
Originally Posted by purple haze2 wrote on Fri, 28 August 2015 18:03
How would you feel Feedy if this was your brother?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Auntie Andy wrote on Thu, 27 August 2015 20:34
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newsvideo/11827875/The-DWP-a ccused-of-killing-people-after-fit-for-work-death-figures-re leased.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feedback wrote on Thu, 27 August 2015 20:29
People with aspergers can work but need constant supervision - I'm talking from a position of experience here. I don't know the full details but you've already made your individual up that this lads death is a direct result if government policy rather than underlying issues surrounding his disability.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Auntie Andy wrote on Thu, 27 August 2015 19:53
It's far better for those with similar mental conditions if we understand the root cause of what went wrong here than assuming it is due to government policy reform - it may well be due to that but without evidence your comments are just knee jerk reaction to an 3 motion al article written in such a way as to illicit a response
It was the Tories who parked the long-term sick and disabled onto Incapacity benefit prior to 1997 http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/thumbup.gif
Re: Disabled but fit for work? - Make a will
"Unfortunately there are the many scroungers"
Who the govt"s own figures show to be less than 1% of claimants.
headlight
Re: Disabled but fit for work? - Make a will
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feedback wrote on Fri, 28 August 2015 17:33
http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/hehe.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gluey wrote on Fri, 28 August 2015 16:57
You really do type some dross. The stats were presented in a fair format.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feedback wrote on Fri, 28 August 2015 16:22
I'd like to see further analysis as there may well be truth in what you claim, and if substantiated then government policy would need to be changed. However without that further analysis it's just not possible to form an opinion either way
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gluey wrote on Fri, 28 August 2015 16:15
I think it's fairly easy to form the opinion that vast numbers of people are dying two weeks after being found fit for work
http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/thumbup.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feedback wrote on Fri, 28 August 2015 16:05
Has anyone ever died whilst working who hasn't needed to have these assessments? Or is it only those who have assessments that die?
OK you will have to make a FOI request to the DWP for the information. Good luck with that because they don't want you, or anybody else to see such incriminating evidence.
Re: Disabled but fit for work? - Make a will
Quote:
Originally Posted by surge wrote on Fri, 28 August 2015 18:04
Gluey
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feedback wrote on Fri, 28 August 2015 15:42
Why is it wrong to ask whether there is any correlation? Why is it wrong to ask whether the cause of death was related or unrelated to their illness?
I don't there was any evidence to suggest IDS wasn't directly involved but there you go.
Re: Disabled but fit for work? - Make a will
Quote:
Originally Posted by surge wrote on Fri, 28 August 2015 18:22
Gluey
Quote:
Originally Posted by surge wrote on Fri, 28 August 2015 18:04
Why is it wrong to ask whether there is any correlation? Why is it wrong to ask whether the cause of death was related or unrelated to their illness?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feedback wrote on Fri, 28 August 2015 15:42
Some people want to get to the truth based on evidence rather than just trying to score very cheap political points. Making an argument to denounce a government using such a topic is crass imho. By all means challenge the government and their policy but do it based on sound evidence and not emotional outbursts and rants favoured by you, Sludge et al
Surely the person in charge takes the rap for what those below them do? It's called leadership.
Re: Disabled but fit for work? - Make a will
Quote:
Originally Posted by headlight wrote on Fri, 28 August 2015 18:09
"
The stress of losing his benefit may have contributed towards accelerating his food phobia but we don't know that for sure.
Re: Disabled but fit for work? - Make a will
the tossers at the top of the pile are the ones to target, unfortunately while you have a conservative government with cameron in charge, who does not know his arse from his elbow, then the people at the bottom of the pile will always be the scapegoats for the economy. http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/thumbup.gif
they are never going to attack or criticise their own voters, but eventually the chickens will come home to roost, you cannot paper over the cracks forever. http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/thumbup.gif
the people who panicked and voted tory in the last election should hang their heads in shame, they will be far worse to come, until the vast majority realise how bad the state of this so called great nation is in. http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/thumbup.gif
Re: Disabled but fit for work? - Make a will
Quote:
Originally Posted by surge wrote on Fri, 28 August 2015 18:04
Gluey
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feedback wrote on Fri, 28 August 2015 15:42
Why is it wrong to ask whether there is any correlation? Why is it wrong to ask whether the cause of death was related or unrelated to their illness?
Anyone remember what Feedback's response to the fictional sanctions stories was?I'm not sure of the relevance but my view was that it was pretty lame and whilst IDS denied it (and there was no evidence to say he was involved) if he was found to be involved then he should go.
Re: Disabled but fit for work? - Make a will
Quote:
Originally Posted by headlight wrote on Fri, 28 August 2015 18:13
"Unfortunately there are the many scroungers"
You've inadvertently explained the reason why we have these teats. The government doesn't know who the 1% are so they have to weed them out. If no one cheated the system then we wouldn't need these tests.
Re: Disabled but fit for work? - Make a will
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gluey wrote on Fri, 28 August 2015 18:25
Gluey
Quote:
Originally Posted by surge wrote on Fri, 28 August 2015 18:22
Why is it wrong to ask whether there is any correlation? Why is it wrong to ask whether the cause of death was related or unrelated to their illness?
Quote:
Originally Posted by surge wrote on Fri, 28 August 2015 18:04
Some people want to get to the truth based on evidence rather than just trying to score very cheap political points. Making an argument to denounce a government using such a topic is crass imho. By all means challenge the government and their policy but do it based on sound evidence and not emotional outbursts and rants favoured by you, Sludge et al
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feedback wrote on Fri, 28 August 2015 15:42
Anyone remember what Feedback's response to the fictional sanctions stories was?
What if those below acted beyond their authority
Re: Disabled but fit for work? - Make a will
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feedback wrote on Fri, 28 August 2015 18:52
Gluey
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gluey wrote on Fri, 28 August 2015 18:25
Why is it wrong to ask whether there is any correlation? Why is it wrong to ask whether the cause of death was related or unrelated to their illness?
Quote:
Originally Posted by surge wrote on Fri, 28 August 2015 18:22
Some people want to get to the truth based on evidence rather than just trying to score very cheap political points. Making an argument to denounce a government using such a topic is crass imho. By all means challenge the government and their policy but do it based on sound evidence and not emotional outbursts and rants favoured by you, Sludge et al
Quote:
Originally Posted by surge wrote on Fri, 28 August 2015 18:04
Anyone remember what Feedback's response to the fictional sanctions stories was?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feedback wrote on Fri, 28 August 2015 15:42
He said it was wrong but then said there was no way of proving it was IDS or the government and not the civil service...down with the state.
In this case they may have acted beyond their authority but they've not acted beyond their current job objective.
Re: Disabled but fit for work? - Make a will
try attacking the tax dodgers, the top ten percent of this country. http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/thumbup.gif get some money off them tossers.
answer, oh no we cant because they vote tory http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/hehe.gif , that plus the immigration farce is going to lead britain into widescale anarchy in the not too distant future.
britain is not capable of looking after millions of immigrants, it is as plain as day. its only a matter of time before the shit hits the fan.
cameron will probably retreat to oxford, inside his ivory tower. http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/thumbup.gif
Re: Disabled but fit for work? - Make a will
I can assure you that I haven"t innadvertantly explained anything.
The poster stated that "Unfortunately there are the many scroungers" & I pointed out that even the govt admit that it is less than 1 person in every hundred.
How about the govt going after the "many" tax dodgers with equal gusto ?
headlight
Re: Disabled but fit for work? - Make a will
Quote:
Originally Posted by surge wrote on Fri, 28 August 2015 18:59
Gluey
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feedback wrote on Fri, 28 August 2015 18:52
Why is it wrong to ask whether there is any correlation? Why is it wrong to ask whether the cause of death was related or unrelated to their illness?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gluey wrote on Fri, 28 August 2015 18:25
Some people want to get to the truth based on evidence rather than just trying to score very cheap political points. Making an argument to denounce a government using such a topic is crass imho. By all means challenge the government and their policy but do it based on sound evidence and not emotional outbursts and rants favoured by you, Sludge et al
Quote:
Originally Posted by surge wrote on Fri, 28 August 2015 18:22
Anyone remember what Feedback's response to the fictional sanctions stories was?
Quote:
Originally Posted by surge wrote on Fri, 28 August 2015 18:04
He said it was wrong but then said there was no way of proving it was IDS or the government and not the civil service...down with the state.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feedback wrote on Fri, 28 August 2015 15:42
I don't there was any evidence to suggest IDS wasn't directly involved but there you go.
In this case they may have acted beyond their authority but they've not acted beyond their current job objective. how do you know what their job objective is?
Re: Disabled but fit for work? - Make a will
Quote:
Originally Posted by headlight wrote on Fri, 28 August 2015 19:00
I can assure you that I haven"t innadvertantly explained anything.
This government has done more to tackle aggressive avoidance and evasion than any other. The two can happen in tandem.
Re: Disabled but fit for work? - Make a will
Quote:
Originally Posted by headlight wrote on Fri, 28 August 2015 19:00
I can assure you that I haven"t innadvertantly explained anything.
This government has done more to tackle aggressive avoidance and evasion than any other. The two can happen in tandem.
Re: Disabled but fit for work? - Make a will
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feedback wrote on Fri, 28 August 2015 19:05
I can assure you that I haven"t innadvertantly explained anything.
Quote:
Originally Posted by headlight wrote on Fri, 28 August 2015 19:00
The poster stated that "Unfortunately there are the many scroungers" & I pointed out that even the govt admit that it is less than 1 person in every hundred.
Tax avoidance and tax evasion have only really become major issues in the public domain in recent years though Feedback leaving the Govt of the day little choice but to clampdown. I don't see much evidence of a clampdown and it seems to me the Tories are very keen to take benefits away from those they consider workshy with disastrous consequences on occasions. They don't seem that motivated to deal with tax avoidance. More rhetoric than action from what I can tell.
Re: Disabled but fit for work? - Make a will
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pearcey wrote on Fri, 28 August 2015 19:13
I can assure you that I haven"t innadvertantly explained anything.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feedback wrote on Fri, 28 August 2015 19:05
The poster stated that "Unfortunately there are the many scroungers" & I pointed out that even the govt admit that it is less than 1 person in every hundred.
Quote:
Originally Posted by headlight wrote on Fri, 28 August 2015 19:00
How about the govt going after the "many" tax dodgers with equal gusto ?
Wish i posted that http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/bow.gif