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They don’t stop whining these NHS workers.Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
They already get, a round of applause every Thursday, they’ll receive £60000 if they die on the job, a minutes silence later on today and the (in)sincere thanks from the one and only Prime Minister.
What more do they want?
What was that you said? PPE.
Incompetent? No ****ing way, it’s China’s fault.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hilts
I like to give reference to things I have hinted at so please see Lib Dem page referencing the pandemic report reportedly not acted on: https://www.libdemvoice.org/dr-phill...ort-64162.htmlQuote:
Originally Posted by surge
Just to get this straight.... you think the "real story" isn't the massive cock-ups, cover-ups and pig-headedness from Westminster in regards to Covid-19 that led to a delay in taking action on social distancing, leaving front-line workers without protective equipment, not having enough tests for NHS staff and leading to more deaths than what they said would be a "good" number...Quote:
Originally Posted by life on mars
it's actually "Human personal responsibility for ones own behaviour to keep others safe" - something that has always relevant in modern society and why the vast majority of people don't go around endangering others on a daily basis.
Can you see the difference and why one isn't even a "story" to begin with?
😘Quote:
Originally Posted by ToTaL ITK
I listened to that and heard the presenter come back with the "but they're a Communist state, can we believe them?" line - the person being interviewed (who I think was someone who worked in research into viruses) answered yes, I believe them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rjk
You are the odd one , comparing a bloke with no criminal record to a sex offenderQuote:
Originally Posted by stan butler
What an asshole
The 'real story' is a mix of complacency and inaction. Yep, the UK gov got it wrong and did too little to late in terms of lockdown. So did the Wales Government, which as Mark Drakeford keeps reminding us, has the power to do it's own thing. However, apart from a few minor tweaks it hasn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Heisenberg
Then we have dependence on the inner sanctum of scientific experts called SAGE, which again seems to debate the whole thing as if it's some sort of academic exercise.
On top of that we seem to have an inept civil service throughout the UK, and an NHS that is cumbersome beyond. Inadequate stocking of PPE by the NHS although they were warned to stock up in 2016. Care homes the same, and although they charge a lot for their services they expect the government to supply them with PPE.
Civil servants losing e-mails from the EU re ventilators, not securing PPE, tests, swabs etc. All smacks of a bureaucratic
nightmare.
Closer to home Wales has as nearly as many cases as Scotland, but only half the population, and In Cardiff one person in approx 220 has got Covid. A month ago it was one in 5,000. Why? Is the lockdown not tight enough? Have people decided that it doesn't apply to them and find themselves as guilty as the governments of complacency?
We know other countries have successfully handled the crisis, so why do we find it so difficult?
We had months to prepare before the virus really hit and wasted them, we had our first case at the end of January and did feck all in February and for most of MarchQuote:
Originally Posted by chris lee
Also, they're the government, its their job not to get caught cold and to plan for every eventuality
Just look at the 'highest rated' comments on this article entitled Coronavirus: UK failed to stockpile crucial PPE
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-52440641
Delusional Tory voting c*nts refusing point blank to accept any sort of reality and bury their head in the sand while screaming "Don't blame the party I voted for! It's not their fault!". They actually have the gall to blame the BBC for reporting this like they went digging like an old News of the World special.
And I though Trump supporters lived in their own bubble.
I think it's far too early to be attributing blame as the full facts are not yet known. Certainly the government have serious questions to answer in relation to testing, PPE and why the lockdown wasn't imposed earlier.Quote:
Originally Posted by celticknight
On PPE there were stockpiles of equipment but the vast amounts used made it impractical to hold more as up to about a week ago 5 acres of warehousing space would have been needed for the PPE used so far and you also have to bear in mind that much of this equipment has an expiry date and won't last forever. So, even with 5 acres of warehousing, that equipment would have been used up by now. The fact there has been unprecedented global demand hasn't helped either. However, the government does have questions to answer as to why they haven't made better use of domestic manufacturers as several firms have offered to produce the stuff and have been ignored.
Commentators use the death statistics to "prove" the government have done badly and hold up Germany as an example of a country that has done well. However, Germany collect stats rather differently to us. At the beginning, before they even began community testing, COVID deaths were only recorded as such if there were confirmed cases much like us. But, unlike us, if COVID hadn't been confirmed they weren't recorded with death rates attributed to either pneumonia or influenza meaning their overall figures for deaths in the community were much lower. As testing is now very good in Germany there will be more cases but they start from a lower base. (As for Vietnam, their stats are so good because they have had experience of dealing with pandemics such as SARS. I guess when we get our next pandemic we will do better as well.)
Today's ONS statistics show deaths if COVID is mentioned on the death certificates alongside other possibilities. Many show influenza/ pneumonia/ COVID. Given that 4000+ people in the UK die of influenza each year it is easy to see how the COVID figures might be higher than they really are. Other countries also collect stats in a different way.
Having criticised the government I would have to conclude they have also done some things well such as the swift building of the Nightingale hospitals, sorting out the logistics of PPE delivery (500 places increased to 58000 places) and the furlough arrangements. Of course we will have to pay for this later but the priority given to health over the economy is the correct one in my view.
So, overall I think we should avoid becoming armchair experts and await the outcome of the many enquiries that will take place when this pandemic is over. It's not about Party politics as some allege; it's far more serious than that.
Some people wouldn't even want any enquiries as "they've been doing the best they can". The mindset of certain individuals that the government is beyond reproach and anyone who dares say otherwise is a "Guardian-reading Labour activist with an agenda" is bloody infuriating.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vindec
As you said though I hope this is the UK's (and others) wake up call like the SARS outbreak back in 2015 was for countries like S. Korea. If the UK botch the next pandemic after this then we're shafted :hehe:
Why do you feel the need to use the word c*nts? Is it because you disagree with them, because you are naturally offensive, or because you believe they vote for the Conservatives?Quote:
Originally Posted by celticknight
I've got no problem with people who vote Conservative when it comes to this virus, but that changes if they then start defending the Government on it as a reflex defence mechanism in a manner they would never do if a Labour Government had acted in exactly the same way as this one has.Quote:
Originally Posted by xsnaggle
Just a reminder that the NHS in Wales is not run or supported by delusional Tory voting c*nts, but by a Labour government who do their own procurement for the NHS and have proved to be equally as ineffective as their English neighboursQuote:
Originally Posted by celticknight
Thanks , I was sadly trying to articulate of course government is responsible as is NHS which makes it own decisions , and so many decisions have been made on the back of scientist we rely on as do MP's ,and to be fair we are learning as this virus migrates , this is new to everyone .Quote:
Originally Posted by lisvaneblue
However the big story for me is the part people have played in relation to their own responsibilities and behaviors to stop the spread .
As usual with most things it turns into a Tory bashing event ,even in these extraordinary times , of course they have got stuff wrong, who wouldn't , sciences has got it wrong so has WHO ,as has the NHS logistics capabilities in the PPE arena at times .
I'm sure a Corbyn / Labour government would have made huge errors based on inexperience's of not being in government for such a long time , the only difference sadly , they would get less of an outcry from the usual hate squad suspects .
But that isn't what I asked, is it?Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
As to your point, I think if a Labour Government did exactly the same there would be voices on here, whom you could easaily identify, defending them to the hilt, and I think you're too honest a person to deny that.
Didn't we hear that Welsh NHS had some big orders in place for PPE that were diverted to England at the last minuteQuote:
Originally Posted by lisvaneblue
I honestly don't think there would be, I haven't seen anyone defending the **** ups the welsh government have made.Quote:
Originally Posted by xsnaggle
And even if there was it doesn't make the number of fools on here defending the government at all costs any less weird.
I don't think that's true. I used to do a lot of medicine procurement contracts with the UK health bodies and they are quite distinct. What you suggest is a bit like saying Sainsbury's had an order but it was diverted to Tesco.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rjk
Maybe someone was trying to cover something up, a bit like the 5,000 tests a day story.
More crystal ball shite. No one knows if labour would have done better or worse, no one knows what posters on here would be writing if the government were a different party. Don't discard people's opinions just because you have put them in a certain box, that is exactly why I don't take part in the whole 'tories think this' bashing that goes on.Quote:
Originally Posted by life on mars
Say it as you see it, if you think the government have done well then say it. If you think they have done shite then say it but as ever, people shouldn't get precious/defensive when they are questioned about views they willingly put online.
Things they have done well
- increasing capacity of NHS
- some economic measures (initially and not all)
Things they have done badly
- too concerned with providing a narrative than the truth/transparency for instance around PPE and testing.
- daily briefings are now pointless sideshows
- they have been fooled into thinking this 100k testing target is relevant, they shouldn't ever have said it and they certainly shouldnt be trying to manipulate the situation to achieve it.
Of course there would, you do know it really. Is blaming England the 'English' goverment and the english NHS not the same as defending the Welsh Government?Quote:
Originally Posted by Croesy Blue
As has been pointed out, the Welsh Government and the Welsh NHS has its own mandate and does not have to rely on the Westminster Government to be told what to do, so what excuse do they have for fouling this up? All the arguing on here about the Westminster Goverment's handling of this is really irrelevant here in Wales, they do not control us.
This is not a political question it is a very personal one because I live here and when the f*ck up the f*ck up my life and my family's lives.
You keep saying the same thing but not explaining why you think this.Quote:
Originally Posted by life on mars
You waited for someone else to respond to my post and then piggybacked onto it to make the same point again without addressing it.
Why don't you try to explain why you think "the part people have played in relation to their own responsibilities and behaviors to stop the spread" is the "real" or "big story" as you've now called it?
another mistake by bodies that are independent of government it happens to everyone , suspect we should be more considerate in these times of people under real pressure , were not
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-52458608