Aeroplane Over The Etihad

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Originally Posted by Pedro de la Rosa

Black people are paid less, and are in poorer jobs comparatively compared to their skill set. There is systematic and deep rooted racism in this country. You think Windrush would have happened to white people?

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Report by cardiff university out today about systematic and institutionalised racism in wales in terms of healthcare , social opportunities , housing and employment

But what do professors at universities know when you have facebook and social media

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Originally Posted by Baloo

I was in the park just this afternoon and two old couples nearby were discussing the protests. One piped-up that if black people wanted equal rights they should first go out and get an education.

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You can forgive pensioners but when people a lot younger than that come out with such nonsense you realise how deep seated racism in this country is

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Originally Posted by WJ99mobile

What do you mean in terms of the UK?

I understand the problems in America, but here? As a country the UK has progressed so so far from 40 years ago

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Utter, utter bollocks - Windrush anyone?

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Originally Posted by life on mars

Same for me I worked in west bute street for years everyone got on fine , can't honestly say I've seen ever seen or heard anything racist , if I had I had I would have intervened and tried to stop it .

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Anecdotes? I have never worked in West Bute Street but I have seen many examples of overt racism. I was at college with a guy who was in the BNP (Chelsea fan) who constantly reminisced about beating up "pakis" in Southall. Utterly vile. Don't tell me there is no racism in the UK.

Have you heard of "institutionalized" racism? It's difficult to "see" but it's pervasive. How do you intend to intervene?

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Originally Posted by life on mars

Same for me I worked in west bute street for years everyone got on fine , can't honestly say I've seen ever seen or heard anything racist , if I had I had I would have intervened and tried to stop it .

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You have used 'natural born UK citizens' as a synonym for white people on here, so forgive me if I don't believe you could recognise a racist comment when you heard it.

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Originally Posted by az city

Anecdotes? I have never worked in West Bute Street but I have seen many examples of overt racism. I was at college with a guy who was in the BNP (Chelsea fan) who constantly reminisced about beating up "pakis" in Southall. Utterly vile. Don't tell me there is no racism in the UK.

Have you heard of "institutionalized" racism? It's difficult to "see" but it's pervasive. How do you intend to intervene?

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Closer to home went on a supporters club bus from bridgend to coventry to see cardiff

As we were driving through hill fields, a predominantly asian area of coventry several guys on the bus banged the windows when we passed an asian person and one was mocking the accent of an asian shop keeper saying " get out of my shop " , about as racist as you can get suggesting all corner shops are run by Pakistanis.......which is bollocks as most of them are run by patels , indian people

I fecking blew my top turned round and said you are all wankers coming out with all that racist crap , this is a supporters club bus ff sake , it's got a code of conduct , reported em to steward , he did feck all so I went back to my seat gave em the finger and sat down , one twat said oh it's only a joke mun so I told him to feck off as well

Reported it to supporters club , heard nothing

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Originally Posted by trampie09

Birdwatch, I seen what you did there, I thought that bloke in the bushes broke a 'moral' code.

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Asking a lady to put her dog on a lead? Google Amy Cooper and see what she did. She could have easily got Christian Copper killed.

It's a shame, but I feel like have to post this again.

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Originally Posted by NYCBlue

It's a shame, but I feel like have to post this again.

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Fair play. That's is kind of beautiful.

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Originally Posted by blue lewj

I joined it to question the gammon name that was in the second post in the thread.

If you didn't like me mentioning it or thought it took the thread off track then replying to me doesn't help. I actually gave my opinion on the subject matter in the first sentence of my first post.

You say it is the red face that people are drawing attention to. Do you think a black man would be described as a gammon? If you do then we will have to disagree.
If it is specifically aimed at white people purely because of the colour of their skin, regardless of political leanings, then again we'll have to disagree.

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I took a lot of time to put my last message to you together, but reading this reply, I feel like it was time wasted. I'm just going to say one more thing on "gammon" and then I'm finished with this particular discussion.

There was something on Twitter and You Tube a few years back highlighting about ten of the audience in an episode of Question Time whose appearance was very similar - they were all middle aged or older, they were all men, they all had ruddy complexions, they all appeared to be very agitated and they all had the same opinion on Brexit.

Now, if they had all been sat together and right in the middle of them was a black man who was agreeing with everything they were saying and then said his piece to great applause from the others, then I wouldn't think to myself "they're gammon except for the black bloke", I would just think "they're gammon", so, for me at least, the colour of the skin is not as important as their opinion.

Moving on to more general matters, it seems to me that there are a lot of people who think of a racist as someone who behaves and speaks in a manner which says they may as well have "I'm a racist" stamped to their forehead. I'll admit that until their last few weeks, I was one of them, but I'd say that one of the lessons from the aftermath of George Floyd's death is that the penny has dropped for at least some of those who thought that - racism is more subtle than that and I'm coming around to thinking that "institutionalised racism" is not too strong a description for what we have in this country.

I accept that many of those saying that they aren't racist are being genuine when they say that - they abhor the sort of stereotypical racist I mentioned above, but the problem some of them apparently have with the concept of BLM is revealing. On the radio yesterday I heard the thinking behind BLM alluded to in a way which, for me, captured what that movement is about - when people said "save the whale", was it taken to mean that they meant it should be saved at the expense of every other species? Of course they didn't, that didn't need saying and yet some are expecting that needless proviso from BLM backers now.

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

I guess that's true in some respects, but what they have also done is highlight just how big the problem is in this country and expose plenty of individuals for what they really are. That's no bad thing in my opinion.

What's been happening in the UK in recent years hasn't been happening by accident. The sooner everybody faces up to the realities of the situation, the better things will be in the long term.

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I've just read through this thread and will make a few comments:

I am surprised that no-one has mentioned the fact that a few days ago three white people were murdered by a Libyan terrorist, and a lot more were injured. All were white. Was it a racist attack or just coincidence?

A few years a go I went to get some specialist work done to a satellite system. It was in Birmingham. Other than the staff at the centre I saw no white people in the few hours I was there. I went to a shop to get a newspaper and I was laughed at for requesting an English language newspaper. I felt uneasy and was completely at odds in the area.

The proprietor at the centre told me that he no longer takes work on a Friday because he's close to a mosque and people's cars completely black the entrance to his workshop. He made it clear that the locals want him out of the area so that they can expand the mosque. It was racism but turned on its head

If black people feel as uneasy as I did when in predominantly white areas they have my complete sympathy.

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Originally Posted by lisvaneblue

I've just read through this thread and will make a few comments:

I am surprised that no-one has mentioned the fact that a few days ago three white people were murdered by a Libyan terrorist, and a lot more were injured. All were white. Was it a racist attack or just coincidence?

A few years a go I went to get some specialist work done to a satellite system. It was in Birmingham. Other than the staff at the centre I saw no white people in the few hours I was there. I went to a shop to get a newspaper and I was laughed at for requesting an English language newspaper. I felt uneasy and was completely at odds in the area.

The proprietor at the centre told me that he no longer takes work on a Friday because he's close to a mosque and people's cars completely black the entrance to his workshop. He made it clear that the locals want him out of the area so that they can expand the mosque. It was racism but turned on its head

If black people feel as uneasy as I did when in predominantly white areas they have my complete sympathy.

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Jesus ****...

Another point, what newspaper were you buying?

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Originally Posted by blue lewj

By your reckoning if a Golliwog was the brain child of a black person then it would be fine as would the name and label attached to it.

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Is it me or has this board become almost surreal in recent weeks?

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

It is beyond question that black people in a predominantly white western world suffer racism. This has gone on for centuries. Black people have usually had to play second best.Yet again another black person suffered at the hands of a racist policeman, losing his life. Black lives matter is simply that we should all unite and say we've had enough of racism towards black people. It is to show solidarity.

I support BLM as I'm fed up to the back teeth of racism by my own white people towards black and ethnic minorites, regardless of how casual and innocuous it is. I support their right to be equal to white people and to live without fear.

I do not say that black lives are more important, or suggest others are less important. I don't tolerate racism from any sources.

What I don't accept is this tag line of white lives matter or all lives matter IN RESPONSE to black lives matter. Almost everyone who comes out with all lives matter or the new white lives matter will not support black lives matter. These are missing the point. BLM is asking everyone to support the end of racism towards black people yet so many won't support this particular aim. Instead they twist the argument to say they want all lives to matter, unable to side with those wanting an end of racism towards black people.

One day, perhaps after years of suffering racism, white people will feel a need to want to stop being the victim of racism and then, by all means, have a campaign. But to use white or all lives matter as a response to a request for everyone to agree that black lives matter is crass, ill-judged and shows how divided the country still is over race. A friend of mine said to me that this BLM/all lives thing shouldn't be about race, but he's wrong. It's about striving for an end to racial hatred towards people due to the colour of their skin. Either you support that and be proud to say Black Lives Matter or you don't.

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Eric, I've got black friends, always have. I'm from Grangetown. But you say BLM and Premier League plaster it over every shirt, say WLM and Burnley want to ban the fan for life. Absolute ridiculous. BLM are a far left party, hence the support for them by many on here. Fact, black lives lost to murder are committed by other blacks. Riot and looting in the apartment store in US after the killing was black people. Rioting over here, pulling down statues, demanding others are taken down, Churchill needed to be boarded up. No, this BLM movement needs crushing. They are big trouble brewing. Enoch was right all those years ago.

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Originally Posted by WJ99mobile

I wasn’t expecting that response but I suppose I can’t really comment on racism in the UK if I’m not black; but personally I’ve never actually encountered or seen anything racist myself here.

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Never encountered or seen anything racist in Brexit Britain. Surreal.

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Originally Posted by lisvaneblue

I am surprised that no-one has mentioned the fact that a few days ago three white people were murdered by a Libyan terrorist, and a lot more were injured. All were white.

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Out of interest, how do you know that?

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Originally Posted by Talksport

BLM are a far left party, hence the support for them by many on here.

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BLM is a far left party? Really? I wasn't aware of that. What elections has this party fielded candidates in?

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Originally Posted by lisvaneblue

The proprietor at the centre told me that he no longer takes work on a Friday because he's close to a mosque and people's cars completely black the entrance to his workshop.

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A Freudian slip perhaps?

:biggrin:

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Originally Posted by Talksport

Eric, I've got black friends, always have. I'm from Grangetown. But you say BLM and Premier League plaster it over every shirt, say WLM and Burnley want to ban the fan for life. Absolute ridiculous. BLM are a far left party, hence the support for them by many on here. Fact, black lives lost to murder are committed by other blacks. Riot and looting in the apartment store in US after the killing was black people. Rioting over here, pulling down statues, demanding others are taken down, Churchill needed to be boarded up. No, this BLM movement needs crushing. They are big trouble brewing. Enoch was right all those years ago.

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More than 50 years have passed since Enoch Powell made his so-called 'Rivers of Blood' speech and in that speech he quoted someone saying to him that "In this country in 15 or 20 years' time the black man will have the whip hand over the white man".
All in all, Powell wasn't right at all.
Black people are seeking equality and justice. They are hardly making the River Tiber foam with blood, which was something else that he alluded to.

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

A Freudian slip perhaps?

:biggrin:

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Beat me to it :hehe:

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Originally Posted by lisvaneblue

I've just read through this thread and will make a few comments:

I am surprised that no-one has mentioned the fact that a few days ago three white people were murdered by a Libyan terrorist, and a lot more were injured. All were white. Was it a racist attack or just coincidence?

A few years a go I went to get some specialist work done to a satellite system. It was in Birmingham. Other than the staff at the centre I saw no white people in the few hours I was there. I went to a shop to get a newspaper and I was laughed at for requesting an English language newspaper. I felt uneasy and was completely at odds in the area.

The proprietor at the centre told me that he no longer takes work on a Friday because he's close to a mosque and people's cars completely black the entrance to his workshop. He made it clear that the locals want him out of the area so that they can expand the mosque. It was racism but turned on its head

If black people feel as uneasy as I did when in predominantly white areas they have my complete sympathy.

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Piss off.

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Originally Posted by lisvaneblue

I've just read through this thread and will make a few comments:

I am surprised that no-one has mentioned the fact that a few days ago three white people were murdered by a Libyan terrorist, and a lot more were injured. All were white. Was it a racist attack or just coincidence?

A few years a go I went to get some specialist work done to a satellite system. It was in Birmingham. Other than the staff at the centre I saw no white people in the few hours I was there. I went to a shop to get a newspaper and I was laughed at for requesting an English language newspaper. I felt uneasy and was completely at odds in the area.

The proprietor at the centre told me that he no longer takes work on a Friday because he's close to a mosque and people's cars completely black the entrance to his workshop. He made it clear that the locals want him out of the area so that they can expand the mosque. It was racism but turned on its head

If black people feel as uneasy as I did when in predominantly white areas they have my complete sympathy.

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Not interested in the rest of your post but it wasn't that guy's fault, he had mental health issues that the NHS hadn't addressed because of the mishandling of the virus, and he wouldn't have been able to stab so many so quickly if they had been properly observing lockdown social distancing and been at least 2 metres apart.

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Originally Posted by Talksport

Eric, I've got black friends, always have. I'm from Grangetown. But you say BLM and Premier League plaster it over every shirt, say WLM and Burnley want to ban the fan for life. Absolute ridiculous. BLM are a far left party, hence the support for them by many on here. Fact, black lives lost to murder are committed by other blacks. Riot and looting in the apartment store in US after the killing was black people. Rioting over here, pulling down statues, demanding others are taken down, Churchill needed to be boarded up. No, this BLM movement needs crushing. They are big trouble brewing. Enoch was right all those years ago.

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OK.

What’s your view on the Statue Defence League / Britain First and similar groups who were playing up a few weekends ago?

Do they need “crushing” too?

Genuine question.

No charges for the time being, probably for the best.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...ircraft-banner
Police say Burnley 'White Lives Matter' stunt not a criminal offence
Lancashire police say ‘there are no criminal offences that have been disclosed at this time’
Attachment 3917
And a quote from Marx to lighten the mood...
Humanity is not at its best when racist. A madness at the heart of racism
was captured in a letter Groucho Marx wrote to an exclusive country
club that had just barred his family from its swimming pool as it did not
admit Jews. Marx wrote to the club, referring to his daughter Melinda,
and asked, ‘Since my daughter is only half-Jewish would it be alright if
she went in the pool only up to her waist?’

The Burnley captain was superb.

Really depressing reading some of these posts.

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Originally Posted by cyril evans awaydays

If you are unsure on the legality or otherwise of being prosecuted for urinating in a public place why don't you pop down to the top of Queens St this Saturday and empty your bladder next to Aneurin Bevan's statue? That should sort it out for you.

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It's not illegal. The man had his back to the street and was not urinating on a statue, wasn't breaking any law. But they sent him to prison anyway.

Enoch Powell was right. Well this thread was heading there and we finally arrived.

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Originally Posted by Hilts

The Burnley captain was superb.

Really depressing reading some of these posts.

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Depressing but also shocking. I don't know whether attitudes have regressed over the past 5 years (with the Brexit campaign as a trigger) or if the change in political culture and pervasiveness of social media has taken the lid off what was hiding before.

The massive positive is the way the BLM camapign has grown - and it feels in some places that a tipping point has passed. The stance of English and Welsh clubs - the NHS/BLM support on the shirts, giving the knee etc - may have much more of an impact than the demonstrations and removals of slaver-related symbols.

But politics has polarised everywhere (led by what has happened in the USA), in some places society has polarised, and there is no doubt that opinions on this board have polarised. Depressing.

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Originally Posted by xsnaggle

Not interested in the rest of your post but it wasn't that guy's fault, he had mental health issues that the NHS hadn't addressed because of the mishandling of the virus, and he wouldn't have been able to stab so many so quickly if they had been properly observing lockdown social distancing and been at least 2 metres apart.

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****ing hell. What's boris doing reducing it to 1m then, needs to be lockdown in case people go around accidentally stabbing each other.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

I took a lot of time to put my last message to you together, but reading this reply, I feel like it was time wasted. I'm just going to say one more thing on "gammon" and then I'm finished with this particular discussion.

There was something on Twitter and You Tube a few years back highlighting about ten of the audience in an episode of Question Time whose appearance was very similar - they were all middle aged or older, they were all men, they all had ruddy complexions, they all appeared to be very agitated and they all had the same opinion on Brexit.

Now, if they had all been sat together and right in the middle of them was a black man who was agreeing with everything they were saying and then said his piece to great applause from the others, then I wouldn't think to myself "they're gammon except for the black bloke", I would just think "they're gammon", so, for me at least, the colour of the skin is not as important as their opinion.

Moving on to more general matters, it seems to me that there are a lot of people who think of a racist as someone who behaves and speaks in a manner which says they may as well have "I'm a racist" stamped to their forehead. I'll admit that until their last few weeks, I was one of them, but I'd say that one of the lessons from the aftermath of George Floyd's death is that the penny has dropped for at least some of those who thought that - racism is more subtle than that and I'm coming around to thinking that "institutionalised racism" is not too strong a description for what we have in this country.

I accept that many of those saying that they aren't racist are being genuine when they say that - they abhor the sort of stereotypical racist I mentioned above, but the problem some of them apparently have with the concept of BLM is revealing. On the radio yesterday I heard the thinking behind BLM alluded to in a way which, for me, captured what that movement is about - when people said "save the whale", was it taken to mean that they meant it should be saved at the expense of every other species? Of course they didn't, that didn't need saying and yet some are expecting that needless proviso from BLM backers now.

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Right, let's start with the wall of gammon. Let's say that wall contained 9 black people and was called the wall of ***insert a food that looks like a black man***. It would be labelled racist I'm almost sure of it regardless of who posted the original piece. It would be especially so if hijacked by say Britain First and used by them.

I don't like being labelled as racist when I am not simply falling in line with what certain posters post here. I think people who do this need a look at themselves.
I'm also not sure why you're giving me a BLM lesson again. I haven't once knocked the BLM. Respond to the posters who have questioned it.

TLG posts that it can't be a racist term because it was thought up by white people. By that reckoning most black names would not be racist if they were originally from a black person to another.
I believe they would/could be as names can evolve and take on different meanings, being used in other ways and also be looked at differently with time. The name is based on somebody's skin colour, be it enraged and flushed or not. Put what spin you like on it, a gammon can only be a white man.

TLG just has his little clever remarks when he has nothing further and will question the other posters intellect while carefully picking through the posts and picking the parts he thinks he can respond to. A gem in this thread that sums him up is 'Let me have a wild guess, are you 40-70, white male.....'. Who does he think he is? He really does see himself as some kind of font of knowledge around here doesn't he.

Carry on lads. Sorry for even questioning it.
Carry on shooting down anybody that dare move from what the more prominent posters say.

I would add though that if I was boycotting and said I would never watch the club again and was then found to be attending I wouldn't be on here acting all high and mighty. Each to their own.

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Originally Posted by jon1959

Depressing but also shocking. I don't know whether attitudes have regressed over the past 5 years (with the Brexit campaign as a trigger) or if the change in political culture and pervasiveness of social media has taken the lid off what was hiding before.

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I think it's very much the latter. Throughout the Brexit campaign the truth about beliefs and attitudes of large swathes of the general public in the UK was gradually revealed and the whole affair clearly emboldened the legions of bigots and racists among us. I don't think there's any doubt about that.

Bandying around terms such as 'snowflake' and 'gammon' do not help intelligent debate. Neither does irrelevant analogies and the use of what is referred to these days as 'whatabaoutisms'.

End of sermon.

Bless you all.

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Originally Posted by blue lewj

TLG posts that it can't be a racist term because it was thought up by white people.

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That's not what I said, but discussing this subject with you is clearly pointless. You asked a question, and yet it was blatantly rhetorical as you'd obviously already made up your mind that 'gammon' is a racist term, and in order to reinforce your belief you've used some utterly ridiculous examples. You didn't want a discussion, you wanted to make a point and it was a daft one.

Incidentally, if you read the thread back I didn't state you were a white male aged 40 to 70 either, but don't let that bother you. You clearly don't understand plain English as you've demonstrated clearly in your comments about my re-brand protests.

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

That's not what I said, but discussing this subject with you is clearly pointless. You asked a question, and yet it was blatantly rhetorical as you'd obviously already made up your mind that 'gammon' is a racist term, and in order to reinforce your belief you've used some utterly ridiculous examples. You didn't want a discussion, you wanted to make a point and it was a daft one.

Incidentally, if you read the thread back I didn't state you were a white male aged 40 to 70 either, but don't let that bother you. You clearly don't understand plain English as you've demonstrated clearly in your comments about my re-brand protests.

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There you go again. Self appointed judge and jury of CCMB. Well done.

It's a shame you're so far up your own arse as it's a lovely day outside.

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Originally Posted by blue lewj

It's a shame you're so far up your own arse as it's a lovely day outside.

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It's a shame you're so far up your own arse as it's a lovely day outside.

But as you're posting on a message board, just like me, why not take a few minutes to enjoy a racist video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGxS...lopianCanoeist

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Originally Posted by lisvaneblue

I've just read through this thread and will make a few comments:

I am surprised that no-one has mentioned the fact that a few days ago three white people were murdered by a Libyan terrorist, and a lot more were injured. All were white. Was it a racist attack or just coincidence?

A few years a go I went to get some specialist work done to a satellite system. It was in Birmingham. Other than the staff at the centre I saw no white people in the few hours I was there. I went to a shop to get a newspaper and I was laughed at for requesting an English language newspaper. I felt uneasy and was completely at odds in the area.

The proprietor at the centre told me that he no longer takes work on a Friday because he's close to a mosque and people's cars completely black the entrance to his workshop. He made it clear that the locals want him out of the area so that they can expand the mosque. It was racism but turned on its head

If black people feel as uneasy as I did when in predominantly white areas they have my complete sympathy.

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The Libyan bloke involved in that attack was either a muslim fundamentalist or he was homophobic as all the men killed were gay

I dont think he was a racist , most of his mates were white

He also had serious mental health problems

Many inner city areas of large cities are predominately mixed or muslim or afro Caribbean, birds of a feather etc , its surely no surprise to you that you went to an inner city area of birmingham and there were mostly non white people and the local shop catered for the local ethnic minority population ?

I live near a school and a catholic church . During term time the roads are blocked and driveways blocked with parents cars , and on a Sunday the church lot turn up to do the same .

It's annoying but it doesnt make me feel uneasy

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Originally Posted by Jordi Culé

Jesus ****...

Another point, what newspaper were you buying?

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The morning star

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Originally Posted by Talksport

Eric, I've got black friends, always have. I'm from Grangetown. But you say BLM and Premier League plaster it over every shirt, say WLM and Burnley want to ban the fan for life. Absolute ridiculous. BLM are a far left party, hence the support for them by many on here. Fact, black lives lost to murder are committed by other blacks. Riot and looting in the apartment store in US after the killing was black people. Rioting over here, pulling down statues, demanding others are taken down, Churchill needed to be boarded up. No, this BLM movement needs crushing. They are big trouble brewing. Enoch was right all those years ago.

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Feck me. This goes down as one of the most ignorant messages I've ever read. You have capably shown how you've misjudged the entire thing and shifted it to your far right agenda. I've been through your post history and you make Nick Griffin look like a moderate.

The fact you want to crush anyone in solidarity with black people against racism towards them makes you a rather dangerous racist.

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Originally Posted by Talksport

Eric, I've got black friends, always have. I'm from Grangetown. But you say BLM and Premier League plaster it over every shirt, say WLM and Burnley want to ban the fan for life. Absolute ridiculous. BLM are a far left party, hence the support for them by many on here. Fact, black lives lost to murder are committed by other blacks. Riot and looting in the apartment store in US after the killing was black people. Rioting over here, pulling down statues, demanding others are taken down, Churchill needed to be boarded up. No, this BLM movement needs crushing. They are big trouble brewing. Enoch was right all those years ago.

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Enoch was right ?

You are clearly a far right thatcher loving puppet and you are speaking about the protests in exactly the same way those right wing racist knuckle heads the football lads alliance did the other day

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Originally Posted by Jordi Culé

OK.

What’s your view on the Statue Defence League / Britain First and similar groups who were playing up a few weekends ago?

Do they need “crushing” too?

Genuine question.

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No they are Patriots, defending our culture

Of slave trading