20mph online petition

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Originally Posted by superfeathers

Sorry but this is just total nonsense. It's easier to get out in a 20 than a 30, people still need stopping distances and so on. Well, most people, who aren't looking to crash or run people over (so excluding a few in this thread).

I'm probably about a year ahead of a lot of people on here as all of the roads nearest to me changed to 20 some time ago. You get used to it after a week or so.

To sum this thread up, old people don't like change. I believe a straw poll of the demographic of this board was done fairly recently.

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Just because you don't like it doesn't make it nonsense. And if I agreed with you we'd both be wrong.

The point being is that cautious drivers are going to take longer to pull out because the gaps in traffic are smaller.

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Originally Posted by HiVis

Just because you don't like it doesn't make it nonsense. And if I agreed with you we'd both be wrong.

The point being is that cautious drivers are going to take longer to pull out because the gaps in traffic are smaller.

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It's not that I don't like it, it's that I don't see it to be true in practice. Having spent a year of driving around 20mph roads around me, with one being a main arterial road adjacent to where I live and have to pull onto daily, I haven't once had an issue where the difference in speed limit has affected the ability to pull out in any way other than positively.

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Originally Posted by 79blue

Sorry to burst your bubble but I have no affiliation with any political party. I am just a concerned citizen who has witnessed the country being wrecked by populist fools and charlatans over the last decade. We have ruled by people who are in it only for self enhancement. At least Drakeford has the balls to try to improve society, even if it makes him unpopular. Whether you like his politics or not, you should admit that he is brave.

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NHS, M4 Brynglas car park, Economy, traffic speed, cycle lanes, bus lanes, road blocks, road closures, schools, kids coming out of care free money, free prescriptions for billionaires, can't travel five miles, lockdown longer when the need has already passed, pay towards University fees, ban the English, triple council tax for 2nd homes in tourist areas, crackpot ideas that make Wales worse, that's not brave it's stupidity.

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Originally Posted by North Cardiff Blue

NHS, M4 Brynglas car park, Economy, traffic speed, cycle lanes, bus lanes, road blocks, road closures, schools, kids coming out of care free money, free prescriptions for billionaires, can't travel five miles, lockdown longer when the need has already passed, pay towards University fees, ban the English, triple council tax for 2nd homes in tourist areas, crackpot ideas that make Wales worse, that's not brave it's stupidity.

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🤣🤣🤣

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Originally Posted by North Cardiff Blue

NHS, M4 Brynglas car park, Economy, traffic speed, cycle lanes, bus lanes, road blocks, road closures, schools, kids coming out of care free money, free prescriptions for billionaires, can't travel five miles, lockdown longer when the need has already passed, pay towards University fees, ban the English, triple council tax for 2nd homes in tourist areas, crackpot ideas that make Wales worse, that's not brave it's stupidity.

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Right now I know it's a wind up. You're the first person I've ever come across who doesn't agree with having schools.

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Originally Posted by superfeathers

Right now I know it's a wind up. You're the first person I've ever come across who doesn't agree with having schools.

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I have no idea how many people in Wales benefit from free prescriptions.

Probably in this cost of living crisis id say it helps many thousands.

Id love to know how much money a year is spent on Welsh billionaires prescriptions.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

It really isn't. Most of the country object to the imposition of 20mph where it isn't necessary. Its as simple as that. It's a bad policy decision.

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293,311 signatures

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Originally Posted by superfeathers

Right now I know it's a wind up. You're the first person I've ever come across who doesn't agree with having schools.

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You're living proof of the state of them :hehe:

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Originally Posted by 79blue

Unfortunately I am not in a position to gather mushrooms as I am unable to walk due to Motor Neurone Disease.

A more considered reply would have been appreciated.

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I am not going to offer platitudes, however much I sympathise with your condition....you by definition have no idea how ludicrous it is to drive at 20mph.....with the probable exception of schools.


293,311 signatures to date apparently....it's not brave, it's ludicrous and stupid.

A lot of the time on my route around Cardiff above 20 was a treat anyway.

What I most dislike is the mess they made of the roll out. It's like they chose which roads to keep 30 based on throwing darts at a map.

That or they still haven't taken down most of the 30 signs.

Shambles.

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Originally Posted by North Cardiff Blue

NHS, M4 Brynglas car park, Economy, traffic speed, cycle lanes, bus lanes, road blocks, road closures, schools, kids coming out of care free money, free prescriptions for billionaires, can't travel five miles, lockdown longer when the need has already passed, pay towards University fees, ban the English, triple council tax for 2nd homes in tourist areas, crackpot ideas that make Wales worse, that's not brave it's stupidity.

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Take off your blinkers and look at the real world around you.


M4 Brynglas car park – add a couple of extra lanes and within a few years hey will become clogged, but we can always do this ad infinitum.

Economy – the majority of the economy is under the influence of central government.

Traffic speed, cycle lanes, bus lanes, road blocks, road closures – all done to reduce particulate pollution, which will be soon be a significant health risk and to reduce road injuries and deaths (I have significant experience here after 30 years as a paramedic).

Kids coming out of care free money – These children have been disadvantaged all their short lives, moving from homes to foster care and back. What is wrong with giving them support. This is a fraction of what the rich get from tax avoidance.

Free prescriptions for billionaires – I’m sure you can count the number of billionaires in Wales on one hand

Lockdown longer when the need has already passed – That's based on just your opinion and politics. He took expert advice and based his decision on that, not politics as Boris did.

Pay towards University fees – the majority of university educated people complaining of this had their university education for free. The extra tax paid over their lifetime due to their degree more than paid for it.

Ban the English – show me the legislation that bans the English from Wales.

Triple council tax for 2nd homes in tourist areas – if local people cannot buy housing in these areas due to house inflation from second home buyers, then over time these areas will wither and die due to lack of workforce.

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Originally Posted by North Cardiff Blue

You're living proof of the state of them :hehe:

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That's as may be, but I'm still glad that we have schools :shrug::shrug:

How dare those 5 Welsh billionaires have free prescriptions (assuming they all live here). Don't they realise the damage they're causing 😊

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Originally Posted by 79blue

Take off your blinkers and look at the real world around you.


M4 Brynglas car park – add a couple of extra lanes and within a few years hey will become clogged, but we can always do this ad infinitum.

Economy – the majority of the economy is under the influence of central government.

Traffic speed, cycle lanes, bus lanes, road blocks, road closures – all done to reduce particulate pollution, which will be soon be a significant health risk and to reduce road injuries and deaths (I have significant experience here after 30 years as a paramedic).

Kids coming out of care free money – These children have been disadvantaged all their short lives, moving from homes to foster care and back. What is wrong with giving them support. This is a fraction of what the rich get from tax avoidance.

Free prescriptions for billionaires – I’m sure you can count the number of billionaires in Wales on one hand

Lockdown longer when the need has already passed – That's based on just your opinion and politics. He took expert advice and based his decision on that, not politics as Boris did.

Pay towards University fees – the majority of university educated people complaining of this had their university education for free. The extra tax paid over their lifetime due to their degree more than paid for it.

Ban the English – show me the legislation that bans the English from Wales.

Triple council tax for 2nd homes in tourist areas – if local people cannot buy housing in these areas due to house inflation from second home buyers, then over time these areas will wither and die due to lack of workforce.

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You conveniently chose to overlook schools

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Originally Posted by North Cardiff Blue

293,311 signatures

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Dictator wouldn’t care if it hit a million….probably all the people in Wales who actually drive.

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Originally Posted by Maurice Swan

I am not going to offer platitudes, however much I sympathise with your condition....you by definition have no idea how ludicrous it is to drive at 20mph.....with the probable exception of schools.


293,311 signatures to date apparently....it's not brave, it's ludicrous and stupid.

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I stopped driving in May but I have driven on plenty of roads with a 20mph limit with no difficulties.

I do though have considerable experience of dealing with the consequences of pedestrians being struck by motor vehicles doing over 20mph, after 30 years as a paramedic. Just hope it is not something that you ever have to handle on your own.

293,311 signatures to date apparently - what has that to do with the rights or wrongs of this discussion?

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Originally Posted by Maurice Swan

...and what sort of mushrooms have you been gathering lately?

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The same ones you were crunching and munching when you championed Le pen.

https://www.gov.wales/sites/default/...2022to2027.pdf

Welsh Government National Transport Delivery Plan

Drakeford Out ( senior that is)

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Originally Posted by The Bloop

How dare those 5 Welsh billionaires have free prescriptions (assuming they all live here). Don't they realise the damage they're causing ��

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Jesus the straw clutches are out in force, that was an extreme example but anyone but the poorest shouldn't have anything for free because it leads to wastage, that's elementary economics, if they gave people free electricity, how much do you think people's bills would be.

And yes people will continue to take drugs forever if they are free even if they don't think they are appropriate anymore because they are free, gluten-free bread pasta, etc., and all the nonsense. If that was stopped it would save a fortune and that could be used for the NHS or to improve services.

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Originally Posted by 79blue

Take off your blinkers and look at the real world around you.


M4 Brynglas car park – add a couple of extra lanes and within a few years hey will become clogged, but we can always do this ad infinitum.

Economy – the majority of the economy is under the influence of central government.

Traffic speed, cycle lanes, bus lanes, road blocks, road closures – all done to reduce particulate pollution, which will be soon be a significant health risk and to reduce road injuries and deaths (I have significant experience here after 30 years as a paramedic).

Kids coming out of care free money – These children have been disadvantaged all their short lives, moving from homes to foster care and back. What is wrong with giving them support. This is a fraction of what the rich get from tax avoidance.

Free prescriptions for billionaires – I’m sure you can count the number of billionaires in Wales on one hand

Lockdown longer when the need has already passed – That's based on just your opinion and politics. He took expert advice and based his decision on that, not politics as Boris did.

Pay towards University fees – the majority of university educated people complaining of this had their university education for free. The extra tax paid over their lifetime due to their degree more than paid for it.

Ban the English – show me the legislation that bans the English from Wales.

Triple council tax for 2nd homes in tourist areas – if local people cannot buy housing in these areas due to house inflation from second home buyers, then over time these areas will wither and die due to lack of workforce.

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So, as of now, over 300,000 people have signed the petition and this is increasing quickly every minute. According to you these 300,000 people are wrong and you are right. Staggering.

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Originally Posted by goats

Dictator wouldn’t care if it hit a million….probably all the people in Wales who actually drive.

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You don't have to be in Wales to enter some details on the petition.

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Originally Posted by 79blue

Take off your blinkers and look at the real world around you.


M4 Brynglas car park – add a couple of extra lanes and within a few years hey will become clogged, but we can always do this ad infinitum.

Economy – the majority of the economy is under the influence of central government.

Traffic speed, cycle lanes, bus lanes, road blocks, road closures – all done to reduce particulate pollution, which will be soon be a significant health risk and to reduce road injuries and deaths (I have significant experience here after 30 years as a paramedic).

Kids coming out of care free money – These children have been disadvantaged all their short lives, moving from homes to foster care and back. What is wrong with giving them support. This is a fraction of what the rich get from tax avoidance.

Free prescriptions for billionaires – I’m sure you can count the number of billionaires in Wales on one hand

Lockdown longer when the need has already passed – That's based on just your opinion and politics. He took expert advice and based his decision on that, not politics as Boris did.

Pay towards University fees – the majority of university educated people complaining of this had their university education for free. The extra tax paid over their lifetime due to their degree more than paid for it.

Ban the English – show me the legislation that bans the English from Wales.

Triple council tax for 2nd homes in tourist areas – if local people cannot buy housing in these areas due to house inflation from second home buyers, then over time these areas will wither and die due to lack of workforce.

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If you believe that you are either his Son, if so how have you got hold of a phone, or completely brainwashed by some crazy cult or something because it is all utter nonsense?

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Originally Posted by dml1954

So, as of now, over 300,000 people have signed the petition and this is increasing quickly every minute. According to you these 300,000 people are wrong and you are right. Staggering.

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Just realised he doesn't drive, so it no longer impacts him, that's why he is in the minority and doesn't care about people with busy lives who are being affected by stupid ideas, like don't drive five miles, don't drive faster than twenty.

It is great the petition is growing it shows people have had enough, and there is much more chance of backtracking, we are seeing the first signs already, and support for it is non-existent now.

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Originally Posted by nomad blue

You don't have to be in Wales to enter some details on the petition.

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Yes you do, you have to have a Welsh address/postcode otherwise you cant vote. This is capable of being checked and the system filters out anyone who has already voted or is not in a Welsh area.

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Originally Posted by dml1954

So, as of now, over 300,000 people have signed the petition and this is increasing quickly every minute. According to you these 300,000 people are wrong and you are right. Staggering.

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Stop being pedantic.

If the number reaches 3 million then yes the country is against it. But the population of Wales is approximately 3.2 million, with 300,000 petitioning against it. That gives a total of
9.4% of the population against it. Not exactly a landslide.

It is not whether I am right or wrong, it is a question of whether it better for the citizens of this country or not. Time will show which side is right, but I would rather be on the side that tries to improve the country than the side that says that nothing can be done.

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Originally Posted by 79blue

Stop being pedantic.

If the number reaches 3 million then yes the country is against it. But the population of Wales is approximately 3.2 million, with 300,000 petitioning against it. That gives a total of
9.4% of the population against it. Not exactly a landslide.

It is not whether I am right or wrong, it is a question of whether it better for the citizens of this country or not. Time will show which side is right, but I would rather be on the side that tries to improve the country than the side that says that nothing can be done.

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9.4% of the population is massive, for a petition!!!!

It's not an election, people have had to find it and take their own time to sign it, this is big news whether you like it or not.

If you add in all the population that it doesn't affect like yourself, it's even more impressive.

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Originally Posted by North Cardiff Blue

Just realised he doesn't drive, so it no longer impacts him, that's why he is in the minority and doesn't care about people with busy lives who are being affected by stupid ideas, like don't drive five miles, don't drive faster than twenty.

It is great the petition is growing it shows people have had enough, and there is much more chance of backtracking, we are seeing the first signs already, and support for it is non-existent now.

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He was a paramedic, so he would have witnessed the aftermath of what it was like for a person who had been hit by a vehicle ar 30 mph. You think it's a bad idea, fair enough. Then why don't you set up a protest group or something similar instead of repeating yourself on here. Get out there, the fresh air will do you some good.

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Originally Posted by North Cardiff Blue

If you believe that you are either his Son, if so how have you got hold of a phone, or completely brainwashed by some crazy cult or something because it is all utter nonsense?

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There is no need to get personal. That just shows that you have lost the argument. It also shows that you cannot argue your point so you have to resort to infantile language.

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

He was a paramedic, so he would have witnessed the aftermath of what it was like for a person who had been hit by a vehicle ar 30 mph. You think it's a bad idea, fair enough. Then why don't you set up a protest group or something similar instead of repeating yourself on here. Get out there, the fresh air will do you some good.

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I will, and it will, just have to watch while the overtaking of the cars when I walk down the hill :hehe:

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Originally Posted by dml1954

Yes you do, you have to have a Welsh address/postcode otherwise you cant vote. This is capable of being checked and the system filters out anyone who has already voted or is not in a Welsh area.

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I thought you could sign the petition from outside Wales. Your signature would be included in the total but not in the constituency map that breaks down the figures. ART says that 96% of signatories are from within Wales.

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Originally Posted by 79blue

There is no need to get personal. That just shows that you have lost the argument. It also shows that you cannot argue your point so you have to resort to infantile language.

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Ok fair enough it is nonsense, people shouldn't try and defend things that are daft, but you are entitled to your opinion :thumbup:

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Originally Posted by North Cardiff Blue

Just realised he doesn't drive, so it no longer impacts him, that's why he is in the minority and doesn't care about people with busy lives who are being affected by stupid ideas, like don't drive five miles, don't drive faster than twenty.

It is great the petition is growing it shows people have had enough, and there is much more chance of backtracking, we are seeing the first signs already, and support for it is non-existent now.

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So you are saying that because I no longer drive I’m not allowed to have my opinion, despite driving for more than 40 years. I did not ask to have MND, but don’t worry I will not be alive this time next year to argue with you, so you win.

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Originally Posted by 79blue

There is no need to get personal. That just shows that you have lost the argument. It also shows that you cannot argue your point so you have to resort to infantile language.

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It is his way
pathetic

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Originally Posted by 79blue

So you are saying that because I no longer drive I’m not allowed to have my opinion, despite driving for more than 40 years. I did not ask to have MND, but don’t worry I will not be alive this time next year to argue with you, so you win.

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His argument is flawed, unless he discounts a certain percentage of people who have signed the petition who aren't drivers. That would knock a few thousand off the total.

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Originally Posted by jeepster

It is his way
pathetic

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It is pathetic, and sad. I have no issues with people who are against the 20 mph speed limit in built up areas, more power to them, even though I don't agree with them. But to sit on a football message board day after day regurgitating the same bollocks is pretty ****ing desperate.

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Originally Posted by goats

20 in 4th? No chance…..you like talking nonsense right?

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Originally Posted by 79blue

Stop being pedantic.

If the number reaches 3 million then yes the country is against it. But the population of Wales is approximately 3.2 million, with 300,000 petitioning against it. That gives a total of
9.4% of the population against it. Not exactly a landslide.

It is not whether I am right or wrong, it is a question of whether it better for the citizens of this country or not. Time will show which side is right, but I would rather be on the side that tries to improve the country than the side that says that nothing can be done.

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I’m not sure what proportion of the 3.2 Million are adults or even drivers
But if it’s around 1.5 Million, then 20% of the electorate have signed a petition to raise their concerns about the idea or the way it’s being introduced.

Whatever way you slice it and dice it, to me it demonstrates that WAG has either totally underestimated the feelings of the electorate, or haven’t done enough work to sell the idea properly
and that just comes across as arrogance on their part.

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Originally Posted by olderblue

I’m not sure what proportion of the 3.2 Million are adults or even drivers
But if it’s around 1.5 Million, then 20% of the electorate have signed a petition to raise their concerns about the idea or the way it’s being introduced.

Whatever way you slice it and dice it, to me it demonstrates that WAG has either totally underestimated the feelings of the electorate, or haven’t done enough work to sell the idea properly
and that just comes across as arrogance on their part.

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And this is a well reasoned post, no points scoring :thumbup:

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Originally Posted by dml1954

Yes you do, you have to have a Welsh address/postcode otherwise you cant vote. This is capable of being checked and the system filters out anyone who has already voted or is not in a Welsh area.

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Incorrect.

I signed the petition and I have a postcode in England.

Whether they filter out non-Welsh postcodes subsequently is another matter but you can definitely sign the petition without having a Welsh postcode.

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Originally Posted by Bobby Dandruff

Incorrect.

I signed the petition and I have a postcode in England.

Whether they filter out non-Welsh postcodes subsequently is another matter but you can definitely sign the petition without having a Welsh postcode.

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people in Zimbabwe, China and Korea have also signed it, you can see a lost on the website

I don't think the petition will change Mark Drakefords mind. What could though, is if a few MS's start raising concerns, if their constituents pressurise them to do so.