40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

You are spot on

Completely wasting your time though , he's incapable of being wrong , ever

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How do my views on the war differ to yours Sludge?

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Excuse me? What is my view on the Israeli - Gaza war then Stevo?

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Originally Posted by truthpaste

Neither of us have said that the IDF are faultless? All we have highlighted are those who lit the match before the 'building' was set completely alight.

Out of interest, what view would you prefer us to have? And why?

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You have both put the blame for the death of 10s of thousands of Palestinians wholly on Hamas and none of it on Israel.

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Originally Posted by truthpaste

What an interesting take you have on Christian life :hehe:

Later it is, assuming you survive R.I.P. ?

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I've survived. A day on the beer takes it out of me but back to the question at hand.

Israel helped Hamas, it tacitly funded them and continued to do so via Qatar until last October. Israels strategy here can be likened to one of these stupid, steroided up to the eyeballs, tattooed knobheads that keep an XL Pitbull and encourages the dog to act like an aggressive and intimidate all and wthen wonders why the dog named Hamas has then attacked everyone in the kitchen at their house party when they've been dancing to the Sugababes?

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/comment...failed-policy/

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe...as-2024-01-19/

There's a lot more in depth reporting on this out there some really interesting in relation to the Israeli motives.

I'll state my opinion that both Hamas and the current Israeli government are both a gaggle of *****.

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Originally Posted by Jordi Culé

I've survived. A day on the beer takes it out of me but back to the question at hand.

Israel helped Hamas, it tacitly funded them and continued to do so via Qatar until last October. Israels strategy here can be likened to one of these stupid, steroided up to the eyeballs, tattooed knobheads that keep an XL Pitbull and encourages the dog to act like an aggressive and intimidate all and wthen wonders why the dog named Hamas has then attacked everyone in the kitchen at their house party when they've been dancing to the Sugababes?

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/comment...failed-policy/

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe...as-2024-01-19/

There's a lot more in depth reporting on this out there some really interesting in relation to the Israeli motives.

I'll state my opinion that both Hamas and the current Israeli government are both a gaggle of *****.

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Cracking post:thumbup:

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Originally Posted by Jordi Culé

I've survived. A day on the beer takes it out of me but back to the question at hand.

Israel helped Hamas, it tacitly funded them and continued to do so via Qatar until last October. Israels strategy here can be likened to one of these stupid, steroided up to the eyeballs, tattooed knobheads that keep an XL Pitbull and encourages the dog to act like an aggressive and intimidate all and wthen wonders why the dog named Hamas has then attacked everyone in the kitchen at their house party when they've been dancing to the Sugababes?

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/comment...failed-policy/

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe...as-2024-01-19/

There's a lot more in depth reporting on this out there some really interesting in relation to the Israeli motives.

I'll state my opinion that both Hamas and the current Israeli government are both a gaggle of *****.

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:thumbup:

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Originally Posted by stevo

You have both put the blame for the death of 10s of thousands of Palestinians wholly on Hamas and none of it on Israel.

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Completely false, so you kindly retract that!

I said that Hamas could have prevented a lot of Palestinians dying since October by not sanctioning a slaughter at a festival and by not kidnapping people and holding them as hostages. Manifestly, that would have prevented many deaths that have come from Israeli hands.

I also said many protests [in the west] have been wrong in failing to call out Hamas enough. I think that would have helped the situation more by piling pressure on Hamas to release them.

I've no interest in any Zionism or "from the river to the sea" bollocks. Two state solution is the only viable solution and that requires changes in behaviour and government in both countries, not just one.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

I said that Hamas could have prevented a lot of Palestinians dying since October by not sanctioning a slaughter at a festival and by not kidnapping people and holding them as hostages. Manifestly, that would have prevented many deaths that have come from Israeli hands.

I also said many protests [in the west] have been wrong in failing to call out Hamas enough. I think that would have helped the situation more by piling pressure on Hamas to release them.

I've no interest in any Zionism or "from the river to the sea" bollocks. Two state solution is the only viable solution and that requires changes in behaviour and government in both countries, not just one.

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Had you equally ascribed bollocks to Zionism you might have appeared a tad more credible but I doubt it was an oversight. Also it's worth remembering that the end goal of Zionism is "from the river to the sea".

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Originally Posted by Dorcus

Had you equally ascribed bollocks to Zionism you might have appeared a tad more credible but I doubt it was an oversight. Also it's worth remembering that the end goal of Zionism is "from the river to the sea".

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Happy to confirm, I was applying "bollocks" to both of those ideas / slogans.

In that case, I retract my statement with full apologies. I’m sorry.

But only as far as you’re concerned. There are others in here who are clearly putting 100% of the blame on Hamas.

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Originally Posted by stevo

In that case, I retract my statement with full apologies. I’m sorry.

But only as far as you’re concerned. There are others in here who are clearly putting 100% of the blame on Hamas.

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I've not seen anyone do that? Sure, a few have pointed out that Hamas lit the flame in a massive way, but that's not the same that saying every life lost is soley due to Hamas.

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Originally Posted by stevo

In that case, I retract my statement with full apologies. I’m sorry.

But only as far as you’re concerned. There are others in here who are clearly putting 100% of the blame on Hamas.

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No need to apologise, but appreciate the message 👍

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Originally Posted by stevo

In that case, I retract my statement with full apologies. I’m sorry.

But only as far as you’re concerned. There are others in here who are clearly putting 100% of the blame on Hamas.

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Originally Posted by truthpaste

I've not seen anyone do that? Sure, a few have pointed out that Hamas lit the flame in a massive way, but that's not the same that saying every life lost is soley due to Hamas.

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"How many times have we seen weeping Palestinian mothers holding the corpses of their children and asking what did he/she do to deserve this? The answer of course is nothing but is 100% down to the actions of Hamas."

I wonder who wrote this and who piled in to support it? (Clue - many bibles were bashed that day!)

To put it bluntly - Benjamin Netanyahu is the enemy of the Israeli people, the Palestinian people, and of every person on this earth who values human life. He is also personally responsible for October 7. The fact that he spoke in Congress, with tens of thousands dead in Gaza and no hostage deal in sight, is an embarrassment to Congress and to every single representative who attended.

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...e-him-to-speak

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

I said that Hamas could have prevented a lot of Palestinians dying since October by not sanctioning a slaughter at a festival and by not kidnapping people and holding them as hostages. Manifestly, that would have prevented many deaths that have come from Israeli hands.

I also said many protests [in the west] have been wrong in failing to call out Hamas enough. I think that would have helped the situation more by piling pressure on Hamas to release them.

I've no interest in any Zionism or "from the river to the sea" bollocks. Two state solution is the only viable solution and that requires changes in behaviour and government in both countries, not just one.

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The two-state solution is generally accepted in modern times to be THE solution. It would appear from our perspective in 2024 to be the lessor of many evils, but it will never provide the peace that we all want to see. The need to eradicate the Jews has never gone away since the rise of Hitler in the 1930's; different vessels are employed to complete the task, but the chief enemy (of Israel) will not stop his efforts until he is dealt with himself, and at the right time, he will be.

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Originally Posted by truthpaste

The two-state solution is generally accepted in modern times to be THE solution. It would appear from our perspective in 2024 to be the lessor of many evils, but it will never provide the peace that we all want to see. The need to eradicate the Jews has never gone away since the rise of Hitler in the 1930's; different vessels are employed to complete the task, but the chief enemy (of Israel) will not stop his efforts until he is dealt with himself, and at the right time, he will be.

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THE solution would be a single democratic state in which Jews, Christians, Muslims and people of no faith or belief could live side by side with the same laws, the same rights and the same security. Not a Jewish state. Not an Islamic state. Just a democratic state.

We are on a path to a single state - a Political Zionist state - in which non-Jews are either killed or expelled (in the occupied territories) and kept as exploited second class citizens with reduced rights (in Israel).

Two states is supported by the vast majority of the world as the best viable compromise solution that gives some rights to the indigenous people of Palestine - but it can only happen (even for the short-medium term) if the illegal settlers are removed from the West Bank and East Jerusalem. Israel has spent all the years since Oslo changing 'the facts on the ground' so that two states is unviable. If the world is serious about two states (the West isn't) Israeli expansionism and ethnic cleansing will have to be rolled back, and the 1967 border re-established.

There is no place in the world of 2024 for settler-colonialism, for ethnic cleansing, or for white/Jewish supremacy (or for any other kind of racist supremacy). Unfortunately that ideology, and the war crimes, human rights abuses and genocide that come from it, have many supporters - even on Cardiff City message boards!.

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Originally Posted by jon1959

THE solution would be a single democratic state in which Jews, Christians, Muslims and people of no faith or belief could live side by side with the same laws, the same rights and the same security. Not a Jewish state. Not an Islamic state. Just a democratic state.

We are on a path to a single state - a Political Zionist state - in which non-Jews are either killed or expelled (in the occupied territories) and kept as exploited second class citizens with reduced rights (in Israel).

Two states is supported by the vast majority of the world as the best viable compromise solution that gives some rights to the indigenous people of Palestine - but it can only happen (even for the short-medium term) if the illegal settlers are removed from the West Bank and East Jerusalem. Israel has spent all the years since Oslo changing 'the facts on the ground' so that two states is unviable. If the world is serious about two states (the West isn't) Israeli expansionism and ethnic cleansing will have to be rolled back, and the 1967 border re-established.

There is no place in the world of 2024 for settler-colonialism, for ethnic cleansing, or for white/Jewish supremacy (or for any other kind of racist supremacy). Unfortunately that ideology, and the war crimes, human rights abuses and genocide that come from it, have many supporters - even on Cardiff City message boards!.

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Your wishes are clear. The future reality will unfold just as clearly as it did from 1867 to 1917 and then 1917 to 1967, and it will be interesting to see how people react to those events.

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Originally Posted by jon1959

"How many times have we seen weeping Palestinian mothers holding the corpses of their children and asking what did he/she do to deserve this? The answer of course is nothing but is 100% down to the actions of Hamas."

I wonder who wrote this and who piled in to support it? (Clue - many bibles were bashed that day!)

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As you know I wrote that and I stick by what I said, although it has been misinterpreted to suggest that I meant Hamas are directly responsible for the slaughter of Palestinian children. Obviously that is not the case – as far as I know Hamas have not gone around blowing up houses in Gaza. They are 100% responsible in the sense that the massacre last October triggered the events that followed.

As I wrote previously Hamas were either stupid or deliberate when they launched that attack and I would opt for the latter. Every man and his brother knows that Israel is not a nation to “turn the other cheek” and if attacked will hit back twice as hard – witness the current reaction to the missile strike on the football pitch in the north. I'm pretty sure they needed very little excuse to turn their sights on Hezbollah inside Lebanon – witness the interview with frightened Israelis who live near the Lebanon border as they know that war could be coming to them any time soon. Likewise the people living on the other side of the border are probably anticipating Gaza Mk.2 especially if Hezbollah are embedded amongst the population as Hamas are in Gaza. That doesn't make the Israeli response justifiable, just inevitable of course.

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Originally Posted by Gofer Blue

As you know I wrote that and I stick by what I said, although it has been misinterpreted to suggest that I meant Hamas are directly responsible for the slaughter of Palestinian children. Obviously that is not the case – as far as I know Hamas have not gone around blowing up houses in Gaza. They are 100% responsible in the sense that the massacre last October triggered the events that followed.

As I wrote previously Hamas were either stupid or deliberate when they launched that attack and I would opt for the latter. Every man and his brother knows that Israel is not a nation to “turn the other cheek” and if attacked will hit back twice as hard – witness the current reaction to the missile strike on the football pitch in the north. I'm pretty sure they needed very little excuse to turn their sights on Hezbollah inside Lebanon – witness the interview with frightened Israelis who live near the Lebanon border as they know that war could be coming to them any time soon. Likewise the people living on the other side of the border are probably anticipating Gaza Mk.2 especially if Hezbollah are embedded amongst the population as Hamas are in Gaza. That doesn't make the Israeli response justifiable, just inevitable of course.

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Ethically the question is shouldn't Israel turn the other cheek if the result will be slaughtering innocents? Maybe they should take their losses but maintain the moral high ground!

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Originally Posted by Dorcus

Ethically the question is shouldn't Israel turn the other cheek if the result will be slaughtering innocents? Maybe they should take their losses but maintain the moral high ground!

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Fat chance!! Quote from BBC report today: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c6p2j85k8dro

Israel’s Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has promised that Hezbollah will pay "a heavy price" for an attack that killed 12 children at a football pitch in Majdal Shams on the Israeli-occupied Golan Heights on Saturday.

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Originally Posted by Gofer Blue

Fat chance!! Quote from BBC report today: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c6p2j85k8dro

Israel’s Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has promised that Hezbollah will pay "a heavy price" for an attack that killed 12 children at a football pitch in Majdal Shams on the Israeli-occupied Golan Heights on Saturday.

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Too many innocents will die before a ceasefire is agreed.(both sides)

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Originally Posted by Gofer Blue

Fat chance!! Quote from BBC report today: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c6p2j85k8dro

Israel’s Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has promised that Hezbollah will pay "a heavy price" for an attack that killed 12 children at a football pitch in Majdal Shams on the Israeli-occupied Golan Heights on Saturday.

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Then if it's fat chance that's nothing to do with Hamas: that's Israel's ethical problem.

"It's better to die on your feet rather than live on your knees" Humans will resist poverty, subservience and humiliation. That's just the way we are.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cj506dzqmqlo

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...s-party-muslim

Top Hamas leader killed

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/c4ng7g74xppt
Would be nice to think this will result in less civilians being killed, but I suspect it will only lead to more [sigh]