Boris is back phew

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Originally Posted by Heisenberg

You keep saying the same thing but not explaining why you think this.

You waited for someone else to respond to my post and then piggybacked onto it to make the same point again without addressing it.

Why don't you try to explain why you think "the part people have played in relation to their own responsibilities and behaviors to stop the spread" is the "real" or "big story" as you've now called it?

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cant be bothered , you bore me

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Originally Posted by xsnaggle

Of course there would, you do know it really. Is blaming England the 'English' goverment and the english NHS not the same as defending the Welsh Government?
As has been pointed out, the Welsh Government and the Welsh NHS has its own mandate and does not have to rely on the Westminster Government to be told what to do, so what excuse do they have for fouling this up? All the arguing on here about the Westminster Goverment's handling of this is really irrelevant here in Wales, they do not control us.
This is not a political question it is a very personal one because I live here and when the f*ck up the f*ck up my life and my family's lives.

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I think the main gripes with the UK govt. is the fact that stories keep coming out about how they were warned that this pandemic was a massive probability and they should have stockpiled equipment etc, yet they have repeatedly glossed over the facts or tried to hide them from the public to protect themselves (ironic, eh?).

The critical posts about the Welsh govt. are just as correct as the ones about the UK govt. it's just the scale of the ones about the UK govt. show how devastating their planning and reaction has been the the entire nation, not just Wales.

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Originally Posted by life on mars

cant be bothered , you bore me

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😭

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Originally Posted by xsnaggle

But that isn't what I asked, is it?
As to your point, I think if a Labour Government did exactly the same there would be voices on here, whom you could easaily identify, defending them to the hilt, and I think you're too honest a person to deny that.

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No, but that's what I think, You're probably right that there would be others doing exactly what I'm accusing some on here of doing if a Labour Government were in power, but I wouldn't be one of them as I would like to think I've proved by the way I've been critical of the Assembly Government.

That sort of lazy, reflex, tribalism has no place in a situation like this, but I remember how Labour was held responsible for what happened in 2008 by some Tory supporters - no doubt those same people are bleating on about how things like the virus should not be politicised now.

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Originally Posted by Heisenberg

I think the main gripes with the UK govt. is the fact that stories keep coming out about how they were warned that this pandemic was a massive probability and they should have stockpiled equipment etc, yet they have repeatedly glossed over the facts or tried to hide them from the public to protect themselves (ironic, eh?).

The critical posts about the Welsh govt. are just as correct as the ones about the UK govt. it's just the scale of the ones about the UK govt. show how devastating their planning and reaction has been the the entire nation, not just Wales.

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But people condemn the Westminster Government for these failures and it fact there was no reason for the Welsh or Scottish governments to do that same thing, so shirley a great part of the blame must rest with devolved governments?

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Originally Posted by xsnaggle

But people condemn the Westminster Government for these failures and it fact there was no reason for the Welsh or Scottish governments to do that same thing, so shirley a great part of the blame must rest with devolved governments?

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And plenty of people are blaming them for it

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Originally Posted by xsnaggle

But people condemn the Westminster Government for these failures and it fact there was no reason for the Welsh or Scottish governments to do that same thing, so shirley a great part of the blame must rest with devolved governments?

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I haven't been able to keep with everything written and reported so far, but I thought it wasn't the devolved governments who were privy to all of the information/warnings, just the Westminster folks. You know, the Johnson missing COBRA meetings story etc.

If I've got that wrong, I'll put my hands up.

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Originally Posted by lisvaneblue

I don't think that's true. I used to do a lot of medicine procurement contracts with the UK health bodies and they are quite distinct. What you suggest is a bit like saying Sainsbury's had an order but it was diverted to Tesco.
Maybe someone was trying to cover something up, a bit like the 5,000 tests a day story.

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Plaid Cymru leader Adam Price is currently claiming that only 14% of the ventilators the UK promised to Wales have been delivered as well as only 31 out of 461 mechanical ventilators and none of the ventilators donated to the UK government by the German government

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Originally Posted by xsnaggle

But that isn't what I asked, is it?
As to your point, I think if a Labour Government did exactly the same there would be voices on here, whom you could easaily identify, defending them to the hilt, and I think you're too honest a person to deny that.

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I can't speak hypothetically for anyone else, but I can for myself. If Labour had acted the way the Tories have, I would feel exactly the same.

But it's such a pointless deflection argument; one only worth making when defending the government is a struggle.

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Originally Posted by Heisenberg

I haven't been able to keep with everything written and reported so far, but I thought it wasn't the devolved governments who were privy to all of the information/warnings, just the Westminster folks. You know, the Johnson missing COBRA meetings story etc.

If I've got that wrong, I'll put my hands up.

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COBRA meetings are rarely chaired by the Prime Minister. I recall many years ago a meeting chaired by a civil servant about space ship debris forecast to ditch on land. Normally COBRA meetings are chaired by the relevant Secretary of State. PMs only tend to get in the chair when an event gets serious as in the COVID case.

I think this COBRA thing makes people think of all kinds of secret clandestine things.
COBRA simply stands for Cabinet Office Briefing Room A.
I wouldn't be surprised if some meetings were in COBRB or COBRC but no one would think that was serious. lol

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Originally Posted by Vindec

COBRA meetings are rarely chaired by the Prime Minister. I recall many years ago a meeting chaired by a civil servant about space ship debris forecast to ditch on land. Normally COBRA meetings are chaired by the relevant Secretary of State. PMs only tend to get in the chair when an event gets serious as in the COVID case.

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Are the Welsh Assembly and Scottish Govt. privy to all of the info at these meetings and the ones that warned that the Govt. needed to stockpile PPE etc? That's what I was getting at.

But since you've mentioned it, and I barely know anything about the subject, do the leaders usually miss 5 COBRA meetings - as has been reported?

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Originally Posted by Vindec

COBRA meetings are rarely chaired by the Prime Minister.

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This has been discussed to death, during things like this the primeminister attends COBRA meetings. Even Brown attended COBRA meetings during SARS.

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Originally Posted by xsnaggle

I think this COBRA thing makes people think of all kinds of secret clandestine things.
COBRA simply stands for Cabinet Office Briefing Room A.
I wouldn't be surprised if some meetings were in COBRB or COBRC but no one would think that was serious. lol

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My point is that the stories coming out are making a lot of the public critical of the Govts. lack of preparation to the pandemic and whether they took it seriously.

I want to know if the devolved Govts. had the same information that Westminster did in order to prepare. If they did, then they need to be criticised for the same reasons.

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

This has been discussed to death, during things like this the primeminister attends COBRA meetings. Even Brown attended COBRA meetings during SARS.

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He also chaired meetings about a threatened foot and mouth disease epidemic apparently - for me, the thing about Johnson's five missed meetings is that they only serve to confirm what many suspected of him. He and Cameron are trimmers, not details men, and as someone who often gets into trouble when using a new piece of technology for the first time or when assembling some piece of furniture or another because I just read the first couple of pages of the manual/instructions and then assume I know everything that's required, believe me, I know a trimmer when I see one :hehe:.

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Originally Posted by Heisenberg

Are the Welsh Assembly and Scottish Govt. privy to all of the info at these meetings and the ones that warned that the Govt. needed to stockpile PPE etc? That's what I was getting at.

But since you've mentioned it, and I barely know anything about the subject, do the leaders usually miss 5 COBRA meetings - as has been reported?

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Yes and yes.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

He also chaired meetings about a threatened foot and mouth disease epidemic apparently - for me, the thing about Johnson's five missed meetings is that they only serve to confirm what many suspected of him. He and Cameron are trimmers, not details men, and as someone who often gets into trouble when using a new piece of technology for the first time or when assembling some piece of furniture or another because I just read the first couple of pages of the manual/instructions and then assume I know everything that's required, believe me, I know a trimmer when I see one :hehe:.

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Like the head of any big organisation Boris is a big picture generalist.....a General Manager. He doesn't need to know the detail in the manual because he has expert advisors who know the manual inside out. Now Gordon Brown was a detail man, set in his ways, and methods, but he couldn't see the finished jigsaw because he was too busy looking at each piece.

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Originally Posted by Vindec

Yes and yes.

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https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a9483291.html

Just to confirm, the devolved Govts. got this info and all relevant warnings before it/they were leaked?

Edit: and there's a precedent before BJ for PMs missing 5 consecutive COBRA meetings?

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Originally Posted by lisvaneblue

Like the head of any big organisation Boris is a big picture generalist.....a General Manager. He doesn't need to know the detail in the manual because he has expert advisors who know the manual inside out. Now Gordon Brown was a detail man, set in his ways, and methods, but he couldn't see the finished jigsaw because he was too busy looking at each piece.

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None of the big corporations I've worked for had anyone who conducted themselves like Boris Johnson.
He comes across as winging it 90% of the time. A total chancer who has only got to where he is because of the school he went to.

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Originally Posted by Heisenberg

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a9483291.html

Just to confirm, the devolved Govts. got this info and all relevant warnings before it/they were leaked?

Edit: and there's a precedent before BJ for PMs missing 5 consecutive COBRA meetings?

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If they didn't know Drakeford and Sturgeon will be making some noise. If they stay silent then I'd bet that they did know

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Originally Posted by Rjk

None of the big corporations I've worked for had anyone who conducted themselves like Boris Johnson.
He comes across as winging it 90% of the time. A total chancer who has only got to where he is because of the school he went to.

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Exactly, Boris Johnson is completely the wrong person for the job he faces at the moment.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

Exactly, Boris Johnson is completely the wrong person for the job he faces at the moment.

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He's probably better than Theresa May who reports suggest tended to get bogged down by the detail. But, in reality it's probably Matt Hancock that is running the show with Boris conveying the pretence he is in charge. I agree with the comment that Boris is probably winging it 90% of the time.

I think Boris is winging it 90% of the time also.

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Originally Posted by lisvaneblue

If they didn't know Drakeford and Sturgeon will be making some noise. If they stay silent then I'd bet that they did know

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Interesting viewpoint. Guilty by their silence... I think I'd be saying the same thing though, so can't argue with you there.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

Exactly, Boris Johnson is completely the wrong person for the job he faces at the moment.

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There appears to br plenty of folk in this thread who seem to know it all. Wasted on a football MB.