Re: Talking of Takeover's - Gareth Bale part 2 UPDATED
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Originally Posted by
Nobody's Rep
Wales online are a joke - just rehashing the same article time and time again with sensational headlines that have no bearing on the content of the report - they don't seem have any leads or info of their own - just use other sources
It gets the advertising revenue rolling in.
Re: Talking of Takeover's - Gareth Bale part 2 UPDATED
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Nobody's Rep
Wales online are a joke - just rehashing the same article time and time again with sensational headlines that have no bearing on the content of the report - they don't seem have any leads or info of their own - just use other sources
AI probably writes the report from here daily, there won't be journalists in a year or two, and maybe not a WOL.
Re: Talking of Takeover's - Gareth Bale part 2 UPDATED
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Originally Posted by
North Cardiff Blue
AI probably writes the report from here daily, there won't be journalists in a year or two, and maybe not a WOL.
AI is entirely dependent on input, often from journalists, collates the info and often gets things wrong. The annoying google AI that you can't get rid of at the top of the search engine is regularly incorrect in my experience
It would be a pretty bleak reality if AI replaces actual journalism
Re: Talking of Takeover's - Gareth Bale part 2 UPDATED
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Originally Posted by
City123
AI is entirely dependent on input, often from journalists, collates the info and often gets things wrong. The annoying google AI that you can't get rid of at the top of the search engine is regularly incorrect in my experience
It would be a pretty bleak reality if AI replaces actual journalism
When was the last time you actually read an article that was written by a hard hitting journalist, I don’t think they exist anymore.
Re: Talking of Takeover's - Gareth Bale part 2 UPDATED
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Originally Posted by
jon1959
You may both be right - but I don’t think so.
My understanding from the summaries of the annual accounts done by Keith and others over the years is that Tan has put in about £250m and taken nothing out. Some of his ‘loans’ to the club have been cancelled. Some have been converted to equity. There have been several share re-issues. Tan doesn’t charge interest on his loans - unlike Dalman via Tormen Finance.
Previous creditors have been paid off. The club has assets and it has outstanding debts to Tan and to Tormen (maybe a few other smaller debts).
None of that suggests that there is a ‘net’ figure for Tans financial support that is less than £250m because of other income the club has received over the years. It is all in there together - the income and expenditure - and explained in the accounts. I am not clear whether the Sala legal costs have come from the club or Tan direct or how any settlement will be treated. But none of that changes what he has put into the club. That is not where the problems with Tan lie.
But he can’t have put in £15 million a year can he? He’s had money back to, probably more than £250 million? Wasn’t it almost £200 million alone the last time we got promoted with the parachutes? I reckon he’s lost about £5 million a year which is entirely his own making really but listening to no one whilst having little clue about football business. If I did the same thing running my own business I’d have to suck it up too….is he still sitting on his nice big boat talking about 10 years in the PL? Talk about head in the sand…..
Re: Talking of Takeover's - Gareth Bale part 2 UPDATED
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Originally Posted by
North Cardiff Blue
You're mixing me up, I'm a big fan of what Warnock achieved.
I wasn’t talking about you, I was talking about Tan you numpty….:hehe:
Re: Talking of Takeover's - Gareth Bale part 2 UPDATED
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Originally Posted by
goats
But he can’t have put in £15 million a year can he? He’s had money back to, probably more than £250 million? Wasn’t it almost £200 million alone the last time we got promoted with the parachutes? I reckon he’s lost about £5 million a year which is entirely his own making really but listening to no one whilst having little clue about football business. If I did the same thing running my own business I’d have to suck it up too….is he still sitting on his nice big boat talking about 10 years in the PL? Talk about head in the sand…..
Spot on!
Re: Talking of Takeover's - Gareth Bale part 2 UPDATED
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Originally Posted by
Mr Ducie
When was the last time you actually read an article that was written by a hard hitting journalist, I don’t think they exist anymore.
About this time last year Martin Shipton & Will Hayward effectively brought down the First Minister through Nation Cymru & Wales Online
The standard of journalism has declined but I don't see how replacing it with AI is going to make any of our lives better. Anyway that's beyond the scope of this thread. Hopefully Bale's consortium take over if only to bring a little buzz back
Re: Talking of Takeover's - Gareth Bale part 2 UPDATED
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Originally Posted by
goats
I wasn’t talking about you, I was talking about Tan you numpty….:hehe:
:hehe:
Re: Talking of Takeover's - Gareth Bale part 2 UPDATED
Quote:
Originally Posted by
goats
But he can’t have put in £15 million a year can he? He’s had money back to, probably more than £250 million? Wasn’t it almost £200 million alone the last time we got promoted with the parachutes? I reckon he’s lost about £5 million a year which is entirely his own making really but listening to no one whilst having little clue about football business. If I did the same thing running my own business I’d have to suck it up too….is he still sitting on his nice big boat talking about 10 years in the PL? Talk about head in the sand…..
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dorcus
Spot on!
Unless I have misunderstood Tan has put in £250m (ish) and owns a League One club with some assets and some liabilities (including debts to himself) that has a probable value of 20% or less of what he has put in.
You are both talking as if some of the club income over the past 15 years has gone in to Tan’s pocket - not through the club accounts.
I don’t think that is so. I don’t know why you think that has happened or is even possible. Any monies repaid to Tan would have to be shown in the annual accounts - and they haven’t. He has put a ridiculous amount in over 15 years, has taken nothing out, and has made shit decisions that have taken the club (and its value) backwards.
But I’ll leave it there. I am not an accountant and this ‘discussion’ is going nowhere.
Re: Talking of Takeover's - Gareth Bale part 2 UPDATED
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Originally Posted by
jon1959
Unless I have misunderstood Tan has put in £250m (ish) and owns a League One club with some assets and some liabilities (including debts to himself) that has a probable value of 20% or less of what he has put in.
You are both talking as if some of the club income over the past 15 years has gone in to Tan’s pocket - not through the club accounts.
I don’t think that is so. I don’t know why you think that has happened or is even possible. Any monies repaid to Tan would have to be shown in the annual accounts - and they haven’t. He has put a ridiculous amount in over 15 years, has taken nothing out, and has made shit decisions that have taken the club (and its value) backwards.
But I’ll leave it there. I am not an accountant and this ‘discussion’ is going nowhere.
So if it’s been put in the club’s accounts, it’s been used by the club for transfer fees, wages, day to day running etc. Someone above quoted that we’ve received about £250 million from various sources during his tenure, if that’s true and he’s put in about the same + Dalman’s loans that’s over half a billion quid!!!!! Something’s not adding up.
Re: Talking of Takeover's - Gareth Bale part 2 UPDATED
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Originally Posted by
splott parker
So if it’s been put in the club’s accounts, it’s been used by the club for transfer fees, wages, day to day running etc. Someone above quoted that we’ve received about £250 million from various sources during his tenure, if that’s true and he’s put in about the same + Dalman’s loans that’s over half a billion quid!!!!! Something’s not adding up.
It is quite easy to quantify when up to 90% of your turnover are wages and salaries alone.
Re: Talking of Takeover's - Gareth Bale part 2 UPDATED
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Originally Posted by
Mr Ducie
It is quite easy to quantify when up to 90% of your turnover are wages and salaries alone.
So does it mean we’ve gone through over £500 million in the last 10 years or so? Split between the owner’s input & various payouts from outside sources.
Re: Talking of Takeover's - Gareth Bale part 2 UPDATED
Quote:
Originally Posted by
City123
About this time last year Martin Shipton & Will Hayward effectively brought down the First Minister through Nation Cymru & Wales Online
The standard of journalism has declined but I don't see how replacing it with AI is going to make any of our lives better. Anyway that's beyond the scope of this thread. Hopefully Bale's consortium take over if only to bring a little buzz back
AI is slop and I think ill of anyone that uses it. It's absolute garbage, often wrong and open to manipulation. It won't replace proper journalism, mainly because it can't.
Re: Talking of Takeover's - Gareth Bale part 2 UPDATED
Quote:
Originally Posted by
splott parker
So if it’s been put in the club’s accounts, it’s been used by the club for transfer fees, wages, day to day running etc. Someone above quoted that we’ve received about £250 million from various sources during his tenure, if that’s true and he’s put in about the same + Dalman’s loans that’s over half a billion quid!!!!! Something’s not adding up.
Our wage bill was over 30m a year for most of the time he's been here. That's where it's gone. It was 42.5m in 2018/19 for example, and was 31.2m in 17/18. That's your half a billion quid right there.
Re: Talking of Takeover's - Gareth Bale part 2 UPDATED
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
Unless I have misunderstood Tan has put in £250m (ish) and owns a League One club with some assets and some liabilities (including debts to himself) that has a probable value of 20% or less of what he has put in.
You are both talking as if some of the club income over the past 15 years has gone in to Tan’s pocket - not through the club accounts.
I don’t think that is so. I don’t know why you think that has happened or is even possible. Any monies repaid to Tan would have to be shown in the annual accounts - and they haven’t. He has put a ridiculous amount in over 15 years, has taken nothing out, and has made shit decisions that have taken the club (and its value) backwards.
But I’ll leave it there. I am not an accountant and this ‘discussion’ is going nowhere.
If he’s really lost £15 million a year then he’s either insane or ridiculously rich and clearly it means nothing whatever happens really
Re: Talking of Takeover's - Gareth Bale part 2 UPDATED
Quote:
Originally Posted by
goats
But he can’t have put in £15 million a year can he? He’s had money back to, probably more than £250 million? Wasn’t it almost £200 million alone the last time we got promoted with the parachutes? I reckon he’s lost about £5 million a year which is entirely his own making really but listening to no one whilst having little clue about football business. If I did the same thing running my own business I’d have to suck it up too….is he still sitting on his nice big boat talking about 10 years in the PL? Talk about head in the sand…..
Having just had a quick look through the independently audited annual accounts for the 14 year period from the May 2011 accounts to the May 2024 ones (the most recent ones on the public register) , Vincent Tan has invested a net sum of £206m into the club. He then converted £120m of this into shares to reduce the loan repayable and wrote off a further £10m as well. This took the balance owed to him down to the £76m figure shown in the 31 May 2024 balance sheet.
Whatever his faults - and there are many in the way he controls and runs the club well worthy of criticism - not investing very heavily to the above extent is not a criticism that can fairly be made .Also . he has never paid himself interest on any of those loans.
I think in your post where you refer to income figures you are completely forgetting against the costs of running the club (player wages are high enough for a start) which are offset against that income. In every year bar one , the club made a net loss in each of those 14 years because of those costs.
Just as a point of interest the total club income over those 14 years came to £574m which is only an average of £41m. If you strip out the exceptional income years of 2019 (£125m) and 2014 (£83m) then the average income over the other 12 years comes comes down a lot to £30m
Re: Talking of Takeover's - Gareth Bale part 2 UPDATED
Quote:
Originally Posted by
goats
If he’s really lost £15 million a year then he’s either insane or ridiculously rich and clearly it means nothing whatever happens really
The average net investment in cash he has put in calculates as £14.7m a year over 14 years and totals £206m. he then converted £120m of that into shares and wrote off another £10m
Re: Talking of Takeover's - Gareth Bale part 2 UPDATED
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ninian1962
Having just had a quick look through the independently audited annual accounts for the 14 year period from the May 2011 accounts to the May 2024 ones (the most recent ones on the public register) , Vincent Tan has invested a net sum of £206m into the club. He then converted £120m of this into shares to reduce the loan repayable and wrote off a further £10m as well. This took the balance owed to him down to the £76m figure shown in the 31 May 2024 balance sheet.
Whatever his faults - and there are many in the way he controls and runs the club well worthy of criticism - not investing very heavily to the above extent is not a criticism that can fairly be made .Also . he has never paid himself interest on any of those loans.
I think in your post where you refer to income figures you are completely forgetting against the costs of running the club (player wages are high enough for a start) which are offset against that income. In every year bar one , the club made a net loss in each of those 14 years because of those costs.
Just as a point of interest the total club income over those 14 years came to £574m which is only an average of £41m. If you strip out the exceptional income years of 2019 (£125m) and 2014 (£83m) then the average income over the other 12 years comes comes down a lot to £30m
Keith, are the current value / ownership of shares known. For example, the £120m conversion you mention above would be on top of what pre-existing value of shares?
Re: Talking of Takeover's - Gareth Bale part 2 UPDATED
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Originally Posted by
Des Parrot
Keith, are the current value / ownership of shares known. For example, the £120m conversion you mention above would be on top of what pre-existing value of shares?
The total cost of shares in issue in the May 2024 accounts was just over £150m. That includes a share premium of around £15m because the shares are 10p shares but most had a conversion/issue rate of about 15.7p
