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Re: Political post.. @Yescymru
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TISS
I've yet to meet any English man or woman who harbours this mythical dislike of the Welsh. In fact, a lot of the English I speak to love Wales and its people.
the dislike is a one way street, they really only like to beat us a rugby, and then only the southerners.
Rubbish. There's Anne Robinson for a start.
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Re: Political post.. @Yescymru
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TISS
I've read this many times and I have no idea what it is you are trying to say.
You said you have more in common with someone from Bristol than North Wales. When I support the Welsh National team. I am surrounded by people from all over Wales. Town and Country. Urban and Rural. North South East and West. Welsh speakingand English speaking. We have everything in common and it feels great.
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Re: Political post.. @Yescymru
Quote:
Originally Posted by
blue matt
I used to be a very strong nationalist, Welsh and nothing, as i left school i would go on pro-wales marches, my dream was a independent Wales, the FWA and MAC were inspirational to a young blue matt, fighting for our freedom, I then met a few gogs on a march, had a few beers and they really didnt like anyone from South Wales, I was welsh through and through , but to these gogs i was almost English, afterall i was from Barry, it was a eye opener for me
I then put my welshness into folliowing cardiff and wales, that was enough for me, i voted PC, job done, as welsh as welsh can be
I then met some girl on holiday, she was from Cheltenham ( so from the evil empire ) she way out of my league so i ignored the fact that she wasnt welsh, I then began to realise that it was all rather stupid, Welsh or English, it makes no difference, look at the current issue with Andy Burnham ( the great north / south divide ), Someone somewhere will decide they are hard done by by someone else, it is always someone else's fault,
I then moved down here ( near Bath ) and not many English dislike the Welsh, when we were doing well in Euro16, alot of English were supporting the Welsh, Wales is alot of people down here 2nd team, they want us to do well, afterall they are our neighbours
You can be Welsh and still British, the English are not really the evil empire
I am not anti-English, I am anti-Westminster. I want the best for Wales. Simple as that.
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Re: Political post.. @Yescymru
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Garth Blue
You said you have more in common with someone from Bristol than North Wales. When I support the Welsh National team. I am surrounded by people from all over Wales. Town and Country. Urban and Rural. North South East and West. Welsh speakingand English speaking. We have everything in common and it feels great.
Its no different from the Niedersachsen / Plaatdeutsch considering themselves Dutch / German but having a common culture.
I can be Welsh and British at the same time
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Re: Political post.. @Yescymru
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TISS
Its no different from the Niedersachsen / Plaatdeutsch considering themselves Dutch / German but having a common culture.
I can be Welsh and British at the same time
Of course you can be should you wish. But it appears that being Welsh means very little to you if you feel you have more in common with someone from Bristol. Supporting my national team means a lot to me. And the feeling when all of Wales comes together to support them is amazing.
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Re: Political post.. @Yescymru
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bluebirdman Of Alcathays
Rubbish. There's Anne Robinson for a start.
I saw a repeat of that recently. It's awful, truly awful and am still really annoyed it was ever broadcast. It was bad then but seeing it in 2020 is even worse. Weakest link was the TV watchdog! https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/apr/16/race.world
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Re: Political post.. @Yescymru
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Garth Blue
Of course you can be should you wish. But it appears that being Welsh means very little to you if you feel you have more in common with someone from Bristol. Supporting my national team means a lot to me. And the feeling when all of Wales comes together to support them is amazing.
I'll never forget the advert on Ely Bridge which went along the lines of "Never forget you're Welsh". But you don't have to live in Wales to know that.
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Re: Political post.. @Yescymru
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Citizen's Nephew
it wasnt the end of the world then, and certainly isnt now, one persons opinion, who really cares ? ?
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Re: Political post.. @Yescymru
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Garth Blue
Of course you can be should you wish. But it appears that being Welsh means very little to you if you feel you have more in common with someone from Bristol. Supporting my national team means a lot to me. And the feeling when all of Wales comes together to support them is amazing.
Thats your opinion but it really doesn't mean cultural differences are made at a line on a map. People are transient, political entities are not.
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Re: Political post.. @Yescymru
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TISS
Its no different from the Niedersachsen / Plaatdeutsch considering themselves Dutch / German but having a common culture.
I can be Welsh and British at the same time
Not if you have a Welsh Nationalist tattoo you cant :popcorn:
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Re: Political post.. @Yescymru
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Garth Blue
I am not anti-English, I am anti-Westminster. I want the best for Wales. Simple as that.
fair enough
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Re: Political post.. @Yescymru
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rjk
Of course he's not saying that.
We can invest in infrastructure projects that will help the economy, but HS2 doesn't benefit us at all, neither does trident.
I'd love to see a severn barrage at some point in the future.
Schemes like this
http://euanmearns.com/the-severn-barrage-revisited/
Suggest they can generate up to 10% of the UKs energy at a very cheap price in comparison with other methods.
That could be enough to provide the whole of wales with cheap energy (which will be attractive to industry) and have enough left over to sell to England.
Even better if it could also include a road bridge to Lavernock or Nash point, as that could really boost the area.
This kind of project SHOULD be easier to achieve in a union like the UK, but it is so London centric that I don't think it would ever happen.
The point is we don't pay for Trident or HS2 currently as we are net beneficiaries of grants and handouts which we're able to spend on the infrastructure projects I listed which we already have(my personal favourite being the Merthyr bypass).
If we were independent we would not have the money for a Severn barrage.
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Re: Political post.. @Yescymru
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Garth Blue
So not that he made a lot of money off the back a Welsh natural resource?
I was answering a statement about all the 'Welsh' millions going to London. The money was made possible by outside investment. Welsh workers got paid cash too.
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Re: Political post.. @Yescymru
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AfricanBluebird
Just seeing what appetite there is on this board for moving towards full independence.
I think the ineptness of the Tories, the arogance & corruption of Westminster and the London-centric / English biased media (including the left-wing media), has made it easier to believe we would be better off on our own.
I'm under no illusions that it will be difficult and we have a long way to go, but has anyone else shifted towards independence recently?
You gotta be F ucking taking the piss !!!!!!!!!!!
You seriously want Donald DUCKford in charge !!!!!!!!
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Re: Political post.. @Yescymru
Quote:
Originally Posted by
blue matt
it wasnt the end of the world then, and certainly isnt now, one persons opinion, who really cares ? ?
I agree, but if you substitute Welsh for any other nationality I'd very much doubt it would have been broadcast.
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Re: Political post.. @Yescymru
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BLUETIT
You gotta be F ucking taking the piss !!!!!!!!!!!
You seriously want Donald DUCKford in charge !!!!!!!!
You're a 70 year old man, grow up.
If Wales ever get independence Labour will not be the ones in charge.
One of the main posters on this thread (against Welsh independence) told me in person that if Wales did something with corporation tax (lowering it I think) that that would cover everything due to the inward investment.
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Re: Political post.. @Yescymru
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ken smith
You're a 69 year old man, grow up.
If Wales ever get independence Labour will not be the ones in charge.
One of the main posters on this thread (against Welsh independence) told me in person that if Wales did something with corporation tax (lowering it I think) that that would cover everything due to the inward investment.
:thumbup:
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Re: Political post.. @Yescymru
I see the important questions haven't been answered such as the currency and the deficit Wales has over England yet still some believe independence is preferable. Mention is made of the Severn Barrage. I doubt it will ever happen even if it makes more sense now than it did 40 years ago when the scheme was first suggested. Other grandiose schemes such as the Severnside Airport won't happen either for the same reason - finance. However, such schemes would be even less likely to happen if Wales were independent; there simply would not be the finance as those in Wales would already be taxed to the hilt to help with the deficit which would probably be a requirement of the UK government if the pound became the currency and also would reinforce the fact Wales could never be truly independent. Wales could never meet the stringent economic requirements of the EU either so the euro would not be an option. The main scheme that is needed - the M4 improvement around Newport - could and should happen but, wait a minute, politics seems to have got in the way. If there was the political will that scheme would be built but it seems the Welsh government are against it even though the scheme would provide jobs by promoting industrial development. So, even if independence were to happen (which it won't) could the politicians be trusted to do the right thing?
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Re: Political post.. @Yescymru
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ken smith
You're a 70 year old man, grow up.
If Wales ever get independence Labour will not be the ones in charge.
One of the main posters on this thread (against Welsh independence) told me in person that if Wales did something with corporation tax (lowering it I think) that that would cover everything due to the inward investment.
That's the policy of the Tory government which Labour oppose.
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Re: Political post.. @Yescymru
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ken smith
You're a 70 year old man, grow up.
If Wales ever get independence Labour will not be the ones in charge.
One of the main posters on this thread (against Welsh independence) told me in person that if Wales did something with corporation tax (lowering it I think) that that would cover everything due to the inward investment.
Then Ireland would just lower theirs
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Re: Political post.. @Yescymru
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Vindec
The main scheme that is needed - the M4 improvement around Newport - could and should happen but, wait a minute, politics seems to have got in the way. If there was the political will that scheme would be built but it seems the Welsh government are against it even though the scheme would provide jobs by promoting industrial development. So, even if independence were to happen (which it won't) could the politicians be trusted to do the right thing?
Environmental impact, climate change and health or not (or should not be) political issues. How is building more roads and carrying on the way we are ever going to end well? We have to stop driving cars. Wales needs to become a healthier place to live and the same old ways of doing things need to change. I say if there was really the political will, we'd be able to change. The arguments of providing jobs is tenuous - that one is always suggested but is either non quantifiable or short-termism.
The fact that a Westminster government can/will intervene with the Seneddd decisions (whatever political party is in power) is not even devolution let alone independence.
I'm genuinely not have a go. It's something I feel very strongly about and only becomes political because I feel I'm given a Hobson's Choice.
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Re: Political post.. @Yescymru
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Citizen's Nephew
Environmental impact, climate change and health or not (or should not be) political issues. How is building more roads and carrying on the way we are ever going to end well? We have to stop driving cars. Wales needs to become a healthier place to live and the same old ways of doing things need to change. I say if there was really the political will, we'd be able to change. The arguments of providing jobs is tenuous - that one is always suggested but is either non quantifiable or short-termism.
The fact that a Westminster government can/will intervene with the Seneddd decisions (whatever political party is in power) is not even devolution let alone independence.
I'm genuinely not have a go. It's something I feel very strongly about and only becomes political because I feel I'm given a Hobson's Choice.
The main problem with the M4 scheme is the payback. I think it cost more than 1bn (which probably means 2 or 3) and doing it would add 20-30 million a year to the economy.
given that 1bn is basically our entire budget for infrastructure spending, we are never going to tie that up for 30 odd years until the m4 relief road pays for itself
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Re: Political post.. @Yescymru
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ken smith
Not if you have a Welsh Nationalist tattoo you cant :popcorn:
who threw you a biscuit
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Re: Political post.. @Yescymru
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rjk
The main problem with the M4 scheme is the payback. I think it cost more than 1bn (which probably means 2 or 3) and doing it would add 20-30 million a year to the economy.
given that 1bn is basically our entire budget for infrastructure spending, we are never going to tie that up for 30 odd years until the m4 relief road pays for itself
we are always told by the left (Labour) that the right (Conservatives) know the cost of everything and the value of nothing, yet here you are advocating the very same approach. What about lowering pollution, or increasing personal utility and happiness instead of being stuck in traffic jams - don't they count?
The fact is the Welsh Government shied away from investing in something which requires significant investment, citing payback is just not a reasonable excuse. Payback over 30 years is not unheard of for large capital projects. The SSC required payback over 25 years or so, perhaps we shouldn't have built that as it only shaves ten minutes of journey times.
We don't have politicians that are prepared to make bold decisions, until we do then independence is pure fantasy
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Re: Political post.. @Yescymru
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TISS
we are always told by the left (Labour) that the right (Conservatives) know the cost of everything and the value of nothing, yet here you are advocating the very same approach. What about lowering pollution, or increasing personal utility and happiness instead of being stuck in traffic jams - don't they count?
The fact is the Welsh Government shied away from investing in something which requires significant investment, citing payback is just not a reasonable excuse. Payback over 30 years is not unheard of for large capital projects. The SSC required payback over 25 years or so, perhaps we shouldn't have built that as it only shaves ten minutes of journey times.
We don't have politicians that are prepared to make bold decisions, until we do then independence is pure fantasy
The SSC should NEVER have taken that long to pay back, only because of the scandalous PPI agreement did it take that long. It cost about 200 million to build yet we ended up paying well over a billion pounds more than that! I genuinely think there should be an enquiry into that deal but that's another point.
The costs for the m4 relief road were already up to 1.6 bn, with some estimates already hitting 2 bn. And the money it generated was pretty low, I can't find the exact figures again, but from memory it was about 25-30 million a year.
If it's 25 million and a 2 billion cost that becomes a payback of 80 years, there are plenty of other things the money can be spent on in south wales that will have a bigger impact. We have limited scope for borrowing and limited resources so it makes sense to spend it on what will have the biggest effect.
The congestion going past newport could be improved significantly by closing half of the newport junctions imo.
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Re: Political post.. @Yescymru
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rjk
The SSC should NEVER have taken that long to pay back, only because of the scandalous PPI agreement did it take that long. It cost about 200 million to build yet we ended up paying well over a billion pounds more than that! I genuinely think there should be an enquiry into that deal but that's another point.
The costs for the m4 relief road were already up to 1.6 bn, with some estimates already hitting 2 bn. And the money it generated was pretty low, I can't find the exact figures again, but from memory it was about 25-30 million a year.
If it's 25 million and a 2 billion cost that becomes a payback of 80 years, there are plenty of other things the money can be spent on in south wales that will have a bigger impact. We have limited scope for borrowing and limited resources so it makes sense to spend it on what will have the biggest effect.
The congestion going past newport could be improved significantly by closing half of the newport junctions imo.
isn't this the argument why London gets all the investment? Yet almost no-one is advocating that anymore.
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Re: Political post.. @Yescymru
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TISS
isn't this the argument why London gets all the investment? Yet almost no-one is advocating that anymore.
the UK can afford to run multiple multi Billion infrastructure projects, it would be good if they weren't all in London.
Wales can pretty much afford to do one at a time
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Re: Political post.. @Yescymru
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rjk
the UK can afford to run multiple multi Billion infrastructure projects, it would be good if they weren't all in London.
such as HS2?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rjk
Wales can pretty much afford to do one at a time
can we? such as what - adding a few pelican crossings and belisha beacons in the Valleys somewhere
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Re: Political post.. @Yescymru
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TISS
such as HS2?
London will be, by far, the main beneficiary from HS2
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TISS
can we? such as what - adding a few pelican crossings and belisha beacons in the Valleys somewhere
That is to say we COULD do a larger project, but only one probably, and that being the case it would need to have a much better case to justify doing it that the M4 relief road had, unless we want all the money tied up for the next 80 years
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Re: Political post.. @Yescymru
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rjk
London will be, by far, the main beneficiary from HS2
do you really think so? If anything, it will mean London's commuter belt extends up to the Midlands and beyond, meaning employment wealth created in London is being spent further away.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rjk
That is to say we COULD do a larger project, but only one probably, and that being the case it would need to have a much better case to justify doing it that the M4 relief road had, unless we want all the money tied up for the next 80 years
why would spending £1bn now mean our money was tied up for 80 years. if it is spent now, then it is spent, next year we have another £1bn to spend.