Re: Rumours doing the rounds
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
Well, Whitts’ season at Blackburn rather proved that the decision to release him when we did was the right one. For me, he was at his peak around 2012, but for every year until 2016, when he thirty two, he was well worth a new contract in my opinion.
I accept that what players do when not in possession has become more important, but I don’t think Colwill just stands about doing nothing when we don’t have the ball, he tries to do what he is, no doubt, told to do constantly, but he isn’t the best at it.
This takes me on to the seven/four situation - that seemed the right balance to me during Toshack’s time and it still does now, despite the changes in approach you talk about. If you look at the teams Steve Morison tended to pick, I’d say the balance tended to be eight/three and, like so many managers he was preoccupied more with getting the three or four to help the seven or eight out rather than vice versa.
You could argue to some extent that players like Colwill have been less effective because the seven/eight were not doing their jobs well enough. It was noticeable over the three seasons following our relegation how often the Colwill equivalent players in our team (Tomlin and Wilson) were anonymous in the first half of matches in 19/20 and 20/21and, on the rare occasions he started under Morison in 21/22, Colwill was a spectator most of the time during the opening forty five minutes All of this points to long standing inability to pass the ball accurately enough - it was only in the second half, as opponents tired, that the players I mentioned came into their own.
As for Manchester United, I’d say they had too many players who should have been in the seven who thought they were one of the four - they were a team short of piano lifters in the same way we had too few piano players.
Finally, as for as get stuck in merchants are concerned, I agree that you need more than that these days even to be a piano lifter, but that message has taken longer to sink at Cardiffthan most other clubs. For me, this summer has given us a nucleus of hard working players with better ability on the ball- players of the type that should be equipped to give the Tomkins, Wilson’s and Colwill’s of this world the sort of service which would see them get more involved. It’s frustrating therefore that Morison seemed reluctant to commit fully to the seven/four divide, the most adventurous he tended to get was a seven and half, three and a half arrangement with Sawyers expected to do a bit of both.
Such a good post, really well explained. I'm pretty sure there's no exact right or wrong answer to this but it's hard to argue with the points you've made. The piano player/lifter analogy is a good one, I was explaining it to my eldest earlier. Soon after, the camera panned to Mark Harris on the Wales bench and I said to my lad that there's an example of someone who thought they were a player but, after a third failed loan spell and surely on his way out of here, suddenly realised he was going to have to do a bit of lifting too if he wanted a career in the game.
I don't see Colwill as lazy particularly but there always seems to be a lack of zip and general athleticism about him that I feel he needs to sort out. I saw criticism of Sam Bowen earlier in the season for not working hard enough off the ball and he hasn't played in the league for Newport for a month now. Like I said earlier, just being a player isn't enough anymore, almost everyone's expected to do their share of lifting.
Re: Rumours doing the rounds
The bust up rumours were all about, straight after the dismissal.
Re: Rumours doing the rounds
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
The bust up rumours were all about, straight after the dismissal.
?....
Re: Rumours doing the rounds
Quote:
Originally Posted by
2b2bdoo
Issue is that you need to build The entire team and formation around Colwill if you want him to flourish. Is he yah good? I’m just not sure. If I was manager would I? Probably not.
I've seen comparisons with Harry Wilson on this thread, there is no comparison, Harry Wilson is miles better, maybe build a team around him but not Colwill.
Re: Rumours doing the rounds
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Loramski
Such a good post, really well explained. I'm pretty sure there's no exact right or wrong answer to this but it's hard to argue with the points you've made. The piano player/lifter analogy is a good one, I was explaining it to my eldest earlier. Soon after, the camera panned to Mark Harris on the Wales bench and I said to my lad that there's an example of someone who thought they were a player but, after a third failed loan spell and surely on his way out of here, suddenly realised he was going to have to do a bit of lifting too if he wanted a career in the game.
I don't see Colwill as lazy particularly but there always seems to be a lack of zip and general athleticism about him that I feel he needs to sort out. I saw criticism of Sam Bowen earlier in the season for not working hard enough off the ball and he hasn't played in the league for Newport for a month now. Like I said earlier, just being a player isn't enough anymore, almost everyone's expected to do their share of lifting.
I thought Colwill was impressive last night.
He was always looking for the ball and constructive in his distribution.
He certainly didn't look bereft of confidence in the least.
Page obviously rates and trusts him to bring him on at a crucial point in the match - ie twenty minutes from the end.
Wasn't there a question mark about his fitness early on in the season?
Re: Rumours doing the rounds
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
What do you think constitutes a Championship quality player? What members of the current City squad do you rate as Championship quality?
Shame there’s been no replies to this point. I’d love to know the answer.
Re: Rumours doing the rounds
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Cyclops
I thought Colwill was impressive last night.
He was always looking for the ball and constructive in his distribution.
He certainly didn't look bereft of confidence in the least.
Page obviously rates and trusts him to bring him on at a crucial point in the match - ie twenty minutes from the end.
Wasn't there a question mark about his fitness early on in the season?
I was surprised to see Colwill come on after his omission from the match day squad on Thursday- I assumed his stop, start (mostly stop) club season was working against him. I mentioned in my blog piece that Wales spent the first eighty minutes playing a bit like headless chickens and only really started getting somewhere in the last ten minutes when I thought they started using their heads a bit more. Colwill played a part in that and I’m a lot more confident of him making the squad for Qatar now than I was on Friday.
What would clinch it would be a good month of club form and, surely, his very low scoring club will finally start giving this home, grown talent who is/was highly rated by every manager he’s played for in senior football apart from Steve Morison.
Re: Rumours doing the rounds
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
I was surprised to see Colwill come on after his omission from the match day squad on Thursday- I assumed his stop, start (mostly stop) club season was working against him. I mentioned in my blog piece that Wales spent the first eighty minutes playing a bit like headless chickens and only really started getting somewhere in the last ten minutes when I thought they started using their heads a bit more. Colwill played a part in that and I’m a lot more confident of him making the squad for Qatar now than I was on Friday.
What would clinch it would be a good month of club form and, surely, his very low scoring club will finally start giving this home, grown talent who is/was highly rated by every manager he’s played for in senior football apart from Steve Morison.
Steve Morison has described Colwill as very talented - said the world's his oyster, and said he was too important for us to rush him back from injury. i don't think he doesnt rate him
Re: Rumours doing the rounds
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rjk
Steve Morison has described Colwill as very talented - said the world's his oyster, and said he was too important for us to rush him back from injury. i don't think he doesnt rate him
Actions speak louder than words.
Re: Rumours doing the rounds
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric the Half a Bee
That's not quite how I remember Whittingham's last seasons with us. From memory, the big dilemma was that he delivered from set pieces, even if not scoring any more from direct free kicks, but from open play he no longer did much.
I recall Whitts first few seasons with us. He divided opinions then. Allegedly Forest bid £2m for him and I reckon half of our supporters would have taken it. Then Dave Jones put him on penalty duties and give him a freer role as an attacking wide man. All of a sudden Whitts became (rightfully) a legend.
Colwill is too young to have firm opinions on. It is certain that, unless he produces moments of brilliance on some sort of regular basis, he will divide opinion. Having a moment of magic is fantastic if it happens every game. Every 3 games is great. Every 10, less so, and so on. If one of your specialisms is creating moments of genius but you have little else, those moments need to be regular.
Good post this, I meant to reply to it sooner. I think it sums it up well. Of course there can be an element of blame to put on the manager for not getting the best out of a player but, equally, the player himself has to make an impact when the chances come along or the patience of the fans starts to run out. It had happened by the end with Whitts (I was surprised at the level of negativity towards him on here) and it seems to be building a bit with Colwill but hopefully he'll put that right soon.
By the way, it's not how I remember Whitts' last seasons with us either. I was surprised to see I'd written it to be honest. I remember him being played forward in a midfield three which never worked and I'm guessing he may have played out wide too (I remember Slade playing Ralls there, maybe he swapped the two of them now and again?). He sat in front of a back three under Trollope too which didn't work but by and large I'd have thought his last couple of seasons here were spent as a centre-mid in front of a four. You mentioning his set-piece delivery reminds me that I'd also said that Slade's greatest legacy here was that no other fanbase in world football was more obsessed with corner taking than we were. There wasn't much else to talk about to be fair.
Re: Rumours doing the rounds
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rjk
Steve Morison has described Colwill as very talented - said the world's his oyster, and said he was too important for us to rush him back from injury. i don't think he doesnt rate him
Absolutely agree. We are saying the same in the car. But fans love a conspiracy theory,
Didn’t matter how many times SM said he wasn’t fully fit it still came back to them saying ‘he just doesn’t like him’
I sometimes wonder how people’s lives work away from football- are they also full of rumours and thinking people are lying to them ?
Can’t be much fun
Re: Rumours doing the rounds
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lawnmower
Absolutely agree. We are saying the same in the car. But fans love a conspiracy theory,
Didn’t matter how many times SM said he wasn’t fully fit it still came back to them saying ‘he just doesn’t like him’
I sometimes wonder how people’s lives work away from football- are they also full of rumours and thinking people are lying to them ?
Can’t be much fun
I believe in this conspiracy theory and I started to do so when Morison started leaving Colwill out of the eighteen early this year.
Re: Rumours doing the rounds
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lawnmower
Absolutely agree. We are saying the same in the car. But fans love a conspiracy theory,
Didn’t matter how many times SM said he wasn’t fully fit it still came back to them saying ‘he just doesn’t like him’
I sometimes wonder how people’s lives work away from football- are they also full of rumours and thinking people are lying to them ?
Can’t be much fun
It’s probably just a case of people looking to reinforce the narrative they’ve either created or the one they’d like to believe. In this thread there are some comical posts, some of them from normally articulate posters.
