Ukraine Losses (Allegedly)

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Originally Posted by cyril evans awaydays

Thanks for clarifying that you think the Ukraine war is underplaying the loss of nearly 3k NATO troops. Madness!

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The fact is NATO troops have been in the Ukraine for EIGHT years in a war zone, not on holiday as far as I know.
So, whilst the figures may be inaccurate, (nobody is disputing that) it’s hardly bullshit.

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Originally Posted by TWGL1

The fact is NATO troops have been in the Ukraine for EIGHT years in a war zone, not on holiday as far as I know.
So, whilst the figures may be inaccurate, it’s hardly bullshit.

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I had no idea that the whole of the Ukraine had been a war zone for EIGHT years as Russia still think it's a special operation a year after its invasion of the whole of the country. So in your opinion, whilst the figures of 3k NATO troop fatalities (total bullshit) may be inaccurate, but hardly bullshit.

My opinion is that NO NATO troop has died in the Ukraine conflict. But you think that the 3k figures may be inaccurate but hardly bullshit.

So you think a number above nil and less than 3k. What number is hardly bullshit in your head?

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Originally Posted by cyril evans awaydays

I had no idea that the whole of the Ukraine had been a war zone for EIGHT years as Russia still think it's a special operation a year after its invasion of the whole of the country. So in your opinion, whilst the figures of 3k NATO troop fatalities (total bullshit) may be inaccurate, but hardly bullshit.

My opinion is that NO NATO troop has died in the Ukraine conflict. But you think that the 3k figures may be inaccurate but hardly bullshit.

So you think a number above nil and less than 3k. What number is hardly bullshit in your head?

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I’m not a military analyst, why don’t you ask the Hollywood A-listers or Richard Branson :hehe:but according to Sky News the “Leaked” documents cite the US Defence Intelligence Agency as estimating the number of casualties are around 10 times bigger than any public figures published by either Moscow or Kyiv.

On a separate note , I don’t think Russia has invaded the whole of the country, and as the NATO casualties have not been on the BBC I don’t expect you to think outside the box anyway.

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Originally Posted by TWGL1

I’m not a military analyst, why don’t you ask the Hollywood A-listers or Richard Branson :hehe:but according to Sky News the “Leaked” documents cite the US Defence Intelligence Agency as estimating the number of casualties are around 10 times bigger than any public figures published by either Moscow or Kyiv.

On a separate note , I don’t think Russia has invaded the whole of the country.

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You started quoting 3K NATO casualties. In justification you want me, anyone to ask Hollywood A-listers or Richard Branson :hehe: to presumably conclude the answer is higher than one.

Separately you don't think that Russia invaded the whole of Ukraine. Which bits were off limits?

As I said earlier today.

Why do person/people who start silly posts keep on returning to those posts to continue to highlight their initial silliness and additional hole digging contributions? It's almost like they are looking for some vindication for their initial stupidity that only they can see!

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Originally Posted by cyril evans awaydays

You started quoting 3K NATO casualties. In justification you want me, anyone to ask Hollywood A-listers or Richard Branson :hehe: to presumably conclude the answer is higher than one.

Separately you don't think that Russia invaded the whole of Ukraine. Which bits were off limits?

As I said earlier today.

Why do person/people who start silly posts keep on returning to those posts to continue to highlight their initial silliness and additional hole digging contributions? It's almost like they are looking for some vindication for their initial stupidity that only they can see!

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Not looking for any vindication to satisfy anybody, especially you. I think you are incorrect in respect of the fact that you think that Russia has invaded the whole country it’s mainly Eastern Ukraine. I can’t spend all night bickering with you , so if you want to get personal leave it there and don’t embarrass yourself.

I think you are incorrect in respect of the fact that you think that Russia has invaded the whole country it’s mainly Eastern Ukraine.

Is this like saying someone would be incorrect in respect of the fact, whatever that means, by saying that in 1914, Germany didn't invade France, just the eastern part of it before it was stopped?

Bizarre!

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Originally Posted by cyril evans awaydays

I think you are incorrect in respect of the fact that you think that Russia has invaded the whole country it’s mainly Eastern Ukraine.

Is this like saying someone would be incorrect in respect of the fact, whatever that means, by saying that in 1914, Germany didn't invade France, just the eastern part of it before it was stopped?

Bizarre!

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How is it bizarre , if you’re correct , well done I missed it, no big deal is , you’re an avid user of a football message-board nothing more ok.

Can you post a link

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Originally Posted by TWGL1

How is it bizarre , if you’re correct , well done I missed it, no big deal is , you’re an avid user of a football message-board nothing more ok

Can you post a link

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I need to post a link to show that Russia's initial thrust to conquer Ukraine was towards Kyiv in the west of Ukraine, to conquer the whole of Ukraine but they got driven back into Belarus and now the front is the East of Ukraine.

Bizarre!

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Originally Posted by cyril evans awaydays

I need to post a link to show that Russia's initial thrust to conquer Ukraine was towards Kyiv in the west of Ukraine, to conquer the whole of Ukraine but they got driven back into Belarus and now the front is the East of Ukraine.

Bizarre!

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I’ve asked because I was under the impression it was mainly in the east and Crimea, as like most of us it only became mainstream last year. As far as I know I didn’t realise it was a full scale invasion and WiKi suggests that also , so if you can post a link, that would be awesome.

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Originally Posted by TWGL1

I’ve asked because I was under the impression it was mainly in the east and Crimea, as like most of us it only became mainstream last year. As far as I know I didn’t realise it was a full scale invasion and WiKi suggests that also , so if you can post a link, that would be awesome.

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You quote the Wiki entry. This is what it said about the breadth of the Russian invasion.

Russian air strikes and a ground invasion were launched along a northern front from Belarus towards Kyiv, a north-eastern front towards Kharkiv, a southern front from Crimea, and a south-eastern front from the Donbas.

The only reason Russian troops are not currently patrolling the streets of Kyiv, Odessa and Lviv is that the Ukranian Army repulsed the thrust to Kviv sent the Russians back into Belarus from whence they came and first halted then reversed Russian advances elsewhere.

Crimea has been in Russian hands since they took it by force for almost a decade.

Hope that has been awesome for you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia...ion_of_Ukraine

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Originally Posted by cyril evans awaydays

You quote the Wiki entry. This is what it said about the breadth of the Russian invasion.

Russian air strikes and a ground invasion were launched along a northern front from Belarus towards Kyiv, a north-eastern front towards Kharkiv, a southern front from Crimea, and a south-eastern front from the Donbas.

The only reason Russian troops are not currently patrolling the streets of Kyiv, Odessa and Lviv is that the Ukranian Army repulsed the thrust to Kviv sent the Russians back into Belarus from whence they came and first halted then reversed Russian advances elsewhere.

Crimea has been in Russian hands since they took it by force for almost a decade.

Hope that has been awesome for you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia...ion_of_Ukraine

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I’m sorry to disagree but what you have quoted hardly consists of a full scale invasion, more so when I know of three friends who have been visiting Ukraine for various reasons since 2011. They have never said to me that they felt uncomfortable or under threat during this time. One had a long time girlfriend and was back and forth. He even brought over a French Bulldog as they were cheap compared to the UK.
Flights to and from Ukraine were common and actually fairly expensive as it was deemed a popular place to go for stag do’s

What’s strange is that NATO has had a significant presence within the country yet prior to a year ago most UK news outlets looked upon Ukraine in a negative light.

With regards to official data Ukraine's leaders say they don’t see a major U.S. intelligence leak as gravely damaging future offensives. A key reason: They have long held back on sharing their most sensitive operational information, doubting Washington's ability to keep their secrets safe, so we may never know the full extent of losses etc (on both sides)for many years to come.

Hopefully the conflict will be resolved sooner rather than later.

Hope that helps.

https://www.britannica.com/news/2204...55d0f52f9cac2d

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Originally Posted by TWGL1

[B]I’m sorry to disagree but what you have quoted hardly consists of a full scale invasion, more so when I know of three friends who have been visiting Ukraine for various reasons since 2011. [B]They have never said to me that they felt uncomfortable or under threat during this time. One had a long time girlfriend and was back and forth. He even brought over a French Bulldog as they were cheap compared to the UK.
Flights to and from Ukraine were common and actually fairly expensive as it was deemed a popular place to go for stag do’s

What’s strange is that NATO has had a significant presence within the country yet prior to a year ago most UK news outlets looked upon Ukraine in a negative light.

With regards to official data Ukraine's leaders say they don’t see a major U.S. intelligence leak as gravely damaging future offensives. A key reason: They have long held back on sharing their most sensitive operational information, doubting Washington's ability to keep their secrets safe, so we may never know the full extent of losses etc (on both sides)for many years to come.

Hopefully the conflict will be resolved sooner rather than later.

Hope that helps.

https://www.britannica.com/news/2204...55d0f52f9cac2d

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It was probably Putin's intention to invade and fully control the whole of the Ukraine but Russia's incursion was halted by the Ukranians.
I'm not sure if Cyril intimated that most of the population in Ukraine felt extremely threatened before 2022 (and I visited a few places there myself, although not in the Donbass/Crimea areas). As for the playing down of the leaked intelligence, that was always going to happen and was highly predicatable. The fact is that the US will be playing a large part behind the scenes, just as they aided the UK in the Falklands War and despite posing as relatively neutral in that conflict.

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

It was probably Putin's intention to invade and fully control the whole of the Ukraine but Russia's incursion was halted by the Ukranians.
I'm not sure if Cyril intimated that most of the population in Ukraine felt extremely threatened before 2022 (and I visited a few places there myself, although not in the Donbass/Crimea areas). As for the playing down of the leaked intelligence, that was always going to happen and was highly predicatable. The fact is that the US will be playing a large part behind the scenes, just as they aided the UK in the Falklands War and despite posing as relatively neutral in that conflict.

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It was a rather strange response that had little to do with the fact that the Russians launched a major assault a year ago aimed at seizing the capital and taking control of the levers of power of an independent sovereign state.

A year earlier my original schedule to watch Wales in the delayed Euros was a Ukraine Air stop over in Kyiv en-route to Baku before covid put the kybosh on that. The idea that people never felt uncomfortable or under threat commuting after the invasion I thought he was talking about is laughable. Presumably the 8m Ukranians who fled the country after the invasion weren't doing so because they found a lucrative means of exporting French Bulldogs.

Since the Russians were kicked out north of Kyiv and elsewhere, the invasion force is still threatening the whole of Ukraine. Their rockets have sought to destroy vital energy and water supply infrastructure as far west as Lviv, causing civilian casualties in their wake.

Still TWGL1's mates had a few good nights way before all this started so any suggestion that this was an invasion aimed at control of the whole of Ukraine is obviously nonsense!

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Originally Posted by cyril evans awaydays

It was a rather strange response that had little to do with the fact that the Russians launched a major assault a year ago aimed at seizing the capital and taking control of the levers of power of an independent sovereign state.

A year earlier my original schedule to watch Wales in the delayed Euros was a Ukraine Air stop over in Kyiv en-route to Baku before covid put the kybosh on that. The idea that people never felt uncomfortable or under threat commuting after the invasion I thought he was talking about is laughable. Presumably the 8m Ukranians who fled the country after the invasion weren't doing so because they found a lucrative means of exporting French Bulldogs.

Since the Russians were kicked out north of Kyiv and elsewhere, the invasion force is still threatening the whole of Ukraine. Their rockets have sought to destroy vital energy and water supply infrastructure as far west as Lviv, causing civilian casualties in their wake.

Still TWGL1's mates had a few good nights way before all this started so any suggestion that this was an invasion aimed at control of the whole of Ukraine is obviously nonsense!

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I see you have totally bypassed the main points as it doesn’t fit your mainstream agenda does it , you’re hilarious at times. What are you going to do with yourself when this agenda pivots, which it will, wet the bed :hehe:

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Originally Posted by TWGL1

I see you have totally bypassed the main points as it doesn’t fit your mainstream agenda does it , you’re hilarious at times. What are you going to do with yourself when this agenda pivots, which it will, wet the bed :hehe:

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What are the main points so the bemused of this thread are clear?

I think Putin wanted to occupy all of Ukraine but only to install a different govt to act as a buffer against the west. A bit like Belarus. He probably would have wanted to (and still wants to) absorb parts of eastern Ukraine into Russia, which there is a linguistic reasoning for if nothing else.

God knows what will happen now. Real stalemate situation but that can't last forever

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Originally Posted by cyril evans awaydays

What are the main points so the bemused of this thread are clear?

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It’s been obvious for a while that every post you contribute to displays a conformation bias , therefore , you’re wasting mine (and your own) time. It’s pointless debating with you.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

I think Putin wanted to occupy all of Ukraine but only to install a different govt to act as a buffer against the west. A bit like Belarus. He probably would have wanted to (and still wants to) absorb parts of eastern Ukraine into Russia, which there is a linguistic reasoning for if nothing else.

God knows what will happen now. Real stalemate situation but that can't last forever

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A lot of Ukranians whose first language is Russian and who lived in what are now cities destroyed by the Russians won't necessaily appreciate the concept of 'linguistic reasoning'.

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

A lot of Ukranians whose first language is Russian and who lived in what are now cities destroyed by the Russians won't necessaily appreciate the concept of 'linguistic reasoning'.

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Of course not. The entire war is entirely unjustifiable on every level. However, I thought we were considering Putin's actions and reasoning? In which case, it is a fact that much of eastern Ukraine is Russian speaking and the protection of said population is a reasoning that Putin would use. I don't think he would ever have sought to occupy the entirety of Ukraine

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Originally Posted by TWGL1

It’s been obvious for a while that every post you contribute to displays a conformation bias , therefore , you’re wasting mine (and your own) time. It’s pointless debating with you.

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I guess we have reached the point in the thread where anyone wanting to know what you think the non-confirmation bias main points are needs to send you a pm to find out!

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Of course not. The entire war is entirely unjustifiable on every level. However, I thought we were considering Putin's actions and reasoning? In which case, it is a fact that much of eastern Ukraine is Russian speaking and the protection of said population is a reasoning that Putin would use. I don't think he would ever have sought to occupy the entirety of Ukraine

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I don't agree. Putin sees Belarus, Ukraine and Russia as an historic entity built on the history of shared Rus culture. Kyiv/Kiev is predominantly a Ukranian-speaking city but was regarded as the cultural capital of that entity way before Moscow came to prominence.

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

I don't agree. Putin sees Belarus, Ukraine and Russia as an historic entity built on the history of shared Rus culture. Kyiv/Kiev is predominantly a Ukranian-speaking city but was regarded as the cultural capital of that entity way before Moscow came to prominence.

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And I'm sure that he would not have wanted a pro-western rump of Western Ukraine between Russian-occupied Ukraine and Transnistria.

Not everyone has lost through the Ukraine war:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...od-price-surge

Hedge funds have emerged as some of the biggest winners from the global food price spike that followed Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, with the world’s 10 biggest hedge funds alone making profits estimated at nearly $2bn.

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Originally Posted by jon1959

Not everyone has lost through the Ukraine war:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...od-price-surge

Hedge funds have emerged as some of the biggest winners from the global food price spike that followed Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, with the world’s 10 biggest hedge funds alone making profits estimated at nearly $2bn.

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Those bastards always win.

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Originally Posted by jon1959

Not everyone has lost through the Ukraine war:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...od-price-surge

Hedge funds have emerged as some of the biggest winners from the global food price spike that followed Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, with the world’s 10 biggest hedge funds alone making profits estimated at nearly $2bn.

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In case you didn't notice, the past 3 years has seen a huge transfer of wealth upwards, and they haven't even finished yet!

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Originally Posted by Wales-Bales

In case you didn't notice, the past 3 years has seen a huge transfer of wealth upwards, and they haven't even finished yet!

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this

whilst the CBDC will save us useless eaters !

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Originally Posted by MOZZER2

this

whilst the CBDC will save us useless eaters !

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The gutting of the middle classes, but I did not care because I wasn't middle class :biggrin:

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Originally Posted by Wales-Bales

In case you didn't notice, the past 3 years has seen a huge transfer of wealth upwards, and they haven't even finished yet!

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Yes I i noticed. I expect most active posters on this board noticed. The Old World Order is enriching itself at an exponential rate.

https://www.oxfam.org/en/press-relea...past-two-years

Meanwhile some people have a mission to distract us from that fact with culture wars, woke angst and dumb conspiracy theories!

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Originally Posted by jon1959

Yes I i noticed. I expect most active posters on this board noticed. The Old World Order is enriching itself at an exponential rate.

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Some people call it a great reset of sorts.

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Originally Posted by Wales-Bales

Some people call it a great reset of sorts.

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George Carlin nails it here

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">“They own everything…They don’t care about you…They got you by the balls.” <br><br>~ George Carlin<br><br>He nailed it. This is absolutely one of the greatest social and political commentaries of the modern era.<br><br> <a href="https://t.co/m565p0lzMf">pic.twitter.com/m565p0lzMf</a></p>&mdash; James Melville (@JamesMelville) <a href="https://twitter.com/JamesMelville/status/1645538148296925194?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 10, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

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Originally Posted by Wales-Bales

Some people call it a great reset of sorts.

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Some people - some on here - call something 'a great reset of sorts', but not that.

There is no reset about the continuing economic and political exploitation of the majority of humanity for the benefit of a small minority. That is business as usual!

The Great Reset proponents - in amongst their extreme and usually alt right fantasies - are taking aim at the opponents of exploiters, at attempts to end pollution and climate catastrophe, at moves to improve health and knowledge. They are mainly the useful idiots who enable the super rich and create the noise and chaff that allows them to do their worst without a spotlight on them. Not that they need that much help on top of the mass and fantasist media, corrupt politics, and inherited power.

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Originally Posted by jon1959

Some people - some on here - call something 'a great reset of sorts', but not that.

There is no reset about the continuing economic and political exploitation of the majority of humanity for the benefit of a small minority. That is business as usual!

The Great Reset proponents - in amongst their extreme and usually alt right fantasies - are taking aim at the opponents of exploiters, at attempts to end pollution and climate catastrophe, at moves to improve health and knowledge. They are mainly the useful idiots who enable the super rich and create the noise and chaff that allows them to do their worst without a spotlight on them. Not that they need that much help on top of the mass and fantasist media, corrupt politics, and inherited power.

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Well let's see what happens with digital ID, CBDC, 15 minute cities, and forever vaccines.

Agenda’s slowly changing….. drip,drip,drip

Ukraine faces corruption investigation by Pentagon Inspector General over aid distribution

https://www.rebelnews.com/ukraine_fa...d_distribution

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Originally Posted by TWGL1

Agenda’s slowly changing….. drip,drip,drip

Ukraine faces corruption investigation by Pentagon Inspector General over aid distribution

https://www.rebelnews.com/ukraine_fa...d_distribution

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Old news. Meanwhile these Pentagon leaks suggest US intelligence claims Ukraine is losing 5 times as many soldiers as Russia.

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Originally Posted by A Quiet Monkfish

Old news. Meanwhile these Pentagon leaks suggest US intelligence claims Ukraine is losing 5 times as many soldiers as Russia.

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That sounds incredible. You don't have a link to support that do you?

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Originally Posted by MOZZER2

George Carlin nails it here

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">“They own everything…They don’t care about you…They got you by the balls.” <br><br>~ George Carlin<br><br>He nailed it. This is absolutely one of the greatest social and political commentaries of the modern era.<br><br> <a href="https://t.co/m565p0lzMf">pic.twitter.com/m565p0lzMf</a></p>— James Melville (@JamesMelville) <a href="https://twitter.com/JamesMelville/status/1645538148296925194?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 10, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

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Whenever I see that clip with his remarks about the media's influence I'm reminded of the Malcolm X quote below.

“The media's the most powerful entity on earth. They have the power to make the innocent guilty and to make the guilty innocent, and that's power. Because they control the minds of the masses.”

Our Munchkins who have been trained through a lifetime of brainwashing to automatically dismiss as conspiracy theories everything that challenges what they've been made to believe is true are on the whole idle sods who have little or no interest in becoming better informed because doing so would impinge upon their addiction to being entertained by purposely tailored made for morons TV programming.

It's not difficult to imagine Taunton Blue Meanie, Canton Kev and some others being superglued to their settees for 90 minutes earlier this evening while being engrossed viewing Britain's Got Talent.

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Originally Posted by TWGL1

Agenda’s slowly changing….. drip,drip,drip

Ukraine faces corruption investigation by Pentagon Inspector General over aid distribution

https://www.rebelnews.com/ukraine_fa...d_distribution

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Seymour Hersh is claiming that Green T shirt man and his crew have creamed off at least $400 million of western aid. :sherlock:

I see that Mr. "Nice Guy" Prigozhin of Wagner Mercenary Army fame announces that he will be pulling his troops out of Bakhmut because they are running out of ammo. Yet more embarrassment for Putin. However seeing is believing - it may just be a con to fool the Ukrainians into a false sense of security. One wonders if Mr. Prigozhin may soon have an accidental fall from an open window on the 20th floor of his apartment block?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-65493008

Ukraine were running out of ammo a few weeks ago although the BBC report about it has been removed.

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion...-ukraine-ammo/

There's often been claims (propaganda?) suggesting Russia has shortages of all sorts of munitions and equipment.

Vlad might be desperate enough to source ICBMs, warships and rocket launchers off of eBay and Amazon.