Read 7 and 8 and what year they were written and then people thought this is the way.Quote:
Originally Posted by truthpaste
Do you know what you are saying?Does it make any sense?
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Read 7 and 8 and what year they were written and then people thought this is the way.Quote:
Originally Posted by truthpaste
Do you know what you are saying?Does it make any sense?
Will there be free pens?
Just red scarfsQuote:
Originally Posted by Alan Lung
Ok, putting aside the modern (recent) examples for a moment, do you deny that the Jesus spoken of in the Bible lived just over 2000 years ago and died via Crucifixian? Do you KNOW if evidence outside of the Bible points to the fact of the Resurrection?Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepster
If you have spent MORE than 24 month (without doing your usual job) and have more key contacts in history, archaeology, ancient texts etc than *this guy - a journalist - who looked at all the facts as an atheist; then maybe you need to write to him to put him straight.
This verified event (as I know *20 minutes of your attention is probably too much to ask) outside the writings of the Bible was predicted 800 years before it happened by Isaiah and 1000 years before by King David - and Jews in this situation (if claiming to be God) were supposed to be stoned to death.
It is still unproven,this guy it is just his opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by truthpaste
Just watched it. It's garrulous fluff from someone who couldn't imagine living a non-hedonistic lifestyle with religion.Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepster
Lie all you like, he was as devastated as any atheist would be (in one sense) to discover his former atheistic wife was now believing in something that all the details from his extensive research couldn't deny as historical fact.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie
Christ rose from the dead, stop wasting your time denying it and start to process what that now means for you and everyone.
What lie did I tell, oh unpleasant one?Quote:
Originally Posted by truthpaste
In the opening minutes they make an excellent case for atheism covering most of the points we often read on this forum. The resurrection is the basis of Christian faith and if it can be proved that it did not happen, then Christianity is dead in the water. Obviously as a one-off historical event it can neither be proven or disproven in the scientific sense, so we have to look at the available evidence. This is something I did myself, but not until many years (20 or so?) after I had dismissed any notion of a loving creator God during my atheistic teenager days when I thought science could explain everything.Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepster
I read two books - "Who moved the stone" and "The case for Christ". These are both in-depth studies into what I suppose could be described as the sociology of the Holy Land at the time as a background to the events surrounding the resurrection,as well as aspects of the event itself. Both books were written by skeptics who set out to try to disprove the resurrection and deal with all the usual criticisms such as Jesus wasn't really dead in the first place, the disciples stole the body, Jesus had an identical twin brother, the disciples suffered some kind of mass hallucination, it was all wishful thinking etc. etc.
I'm pretty confident that no-one who contributes to this debate will bother to read either of these as it will take some considerable time/effort and will instead probably take a short cut and read a summary critique by some well known atheist. So this then is my challenge to you, as indeed I was challenged. Read them for yourself in their entirety and only then decide whether to accept or reject the resurrection. I try to be a constant witness to the Christian faith but you can lead a horse to water etc..... :wink:
I do not have the tenacity of Truthpaste so I will not labour the point. I've done my bit, now over to you.
Can you quote me ever writing a denial about Christmas not rising from the dead? Or have you just made that up? You do seem to imagine
things at times before you go off at irrelevant tangents?
Christmas = ChristQuote:
Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie
I do respect you but Truthpaste can be very cutting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gofer Blue
Truthpaste and Gofer - sorry, I can’t remember if I asked this before but would the proof of non-human intelligence (aliens) contradict your beliefs?
Also, do you believe in the firmament as described in the Bible, which suggests the Earth is flat? Thanks in advance. I’m genuinely interested in this topic.
TP and I are both believers in, and followers of, Jesus. TP is very much “in your face” and reminds unbelievers upfront that they are unrepentant sinners and are on the broad, easy road to hell – which is true, sadly. My approach is somewhat different. I first try to get folk to question why the world is the way it is today. God came in the form of Jesus to show us how to live but as G.K.Chesterton said, Christianity has not been tried and found wanting, it has been found too difficult and left untried. Not by everyone of course, otherwise there would not be millions of people around the world who are Christians including TP and myself.Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepster
That is not to say that it is not difficult to be one. At worst in the U.K. Christians are subject to ridicule but in some parts of the world their lives are on the line – I personally know of pastors in India for example who have been murdered and their homes/churches burnt down.
We are Christians not because we believe we are somehow better, i.e. morally superior, to most people but quite the opposite – we recognise that however “good” we are, we are still sinners who fall way short of the goodness of God/Jesus. It is only by grace that we are saved. I like to leave that thought with people and let them ponder these things for themselves. At some point they will either become convicted of the truth that they are sinners in need of that grace or they will not. It is not my job to convert people, but just to sow the seeds.
Sure, I can be very direct, less so if I get to have a full converstion with individuals and in over 40 years of doing so I've had hundreds of atheists shake my hand, some have agreed to disagree but still say they've appreciated the converstion and often found out something about the Bible they'd not realised before.Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepster
What they wisely didn't do is dismiss what the Bible says without a second thought or fail to ask questions respectfully.
I would suggest we all try to do likewise on any subject and we won't hear so much from those who don't suffer fools gladly.
Non human life that wasn't angelic in origin would not fit with the Scriptures, why do you think secular scientists have thrown away, and will continue to burn billions of dollars (etc) trying to prove there is alien life!Quote:
Originally Posted by stevo
The firnament has nothing to do with a flat-earth but relates to a water-vapour canopy that was part of a very different ecology prior to the worldwide flood; this filtered out much of the radiation that now pentrates the current atmospheric layers which all ties into the reason humans lived so much longer, particularly prior to the flood which itself was mainly caused by the firament releasing its waters:-
Genesis 7:11 - In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, on the seventeenth day of the second month—on that day all the springs of the great deep burst forth, and the floodgates of the heavens were opened. 12 And rain fell on the earth forty days and forty nights.
What happened to your investigation into the 'drones' - did you get an conclusive answer?
A ‘water vapour canopy’ filtered out radiation and allowed people to live to fantastical ages?Quote:
Originally Posted by truthpaste
Keep up the good work!
Keep reading the Guardian, it occasionally comments on such matters :xmasthumbup:Quote:
Originally Posted by jon1959
Best put up or apologise.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie
Your above comment was on Strobel speaking on the historical evidence for the Resurrection, yet at the same time you imply you've never denied the Resurrection!Quote:
Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie
So with Strobels two year investigation was focused on the bodily resurrection of Christ, can you tell us clearly - fluff or fact?
Tell me what lie I specifically told.Quote:
Originally Posted by truthpaste
Dancing around this eh, as you wish. You dismissed his evidence as fluff. Now have the bottle to explain why or retire to it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie
The content in the video was garrulous fluff. No evidence was presented.Quote:
Originally Posted by truthpaste
Now tell me what lie I told.
From 10.45mins - 16.30mins in the >> interview Strobel provides numerous reasons why the Bible's claim of the Resurrection more than stands up against other ancient writings that are widely accepted as historical fact today.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie
Are these points fluff or not?
I've no more time to spend on you just using denial, if you believe the resurrection then just say so, your lack of doing so will tell others all they need to know - God already knows.
It's one person's opinion and it wasn't back up with anything like a scintilla of evidence. Still, if you believe in talking snakes and donkeys you will believe in anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by truthpaste
If you are really confident that there is no evidence OUTSIDE of the Bible for the Resurrection then here are no less than 4 proofs in this 2 minute video which point to 'an avalanche of evidence' - pick any one of these and we can examine the evidence behind it publicly (here).Quote:
Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie
I watched that video. Obviously I regret it now.Quote:
Originally Posted by truthpaste
It is just like most of the embarrassing crap you post. No evidence of anything. Just empty assertions backed by BTEC graphics to imply significance.
No significance. No evidence. No argument. Just a lot of gushing words!
Lame brain nonsense (again)!
Where did he go again? I missed that bitQuote:
Originally Posted by truthpaste
You seem to endlessly present strawman arguments based on specific statements I have never made. You haven't come up with evidence for me lying, by the way.Quote:
Originally Posted by truthpaste
But it's EVIDENCE, John! It can't be denied that donkeys spoke, Lot's wife was turned to salt and water was turned into wine. Lee Strobel said so in videos.Quote:
Originally Posted by jon1959
I can't remember ever specifically discussing the resurrection, that's why.Quote:
Originally Posted by truthpaste
Interesting info about Strobel's fluff:
https://valerietarico.com/2019/03/20...id-fitzgerald/
Truthpaste will believe any thing talking donkeys ect.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie
My first go-to thoughts on any question regarding Biblical content are: did Jesus have anything to say on the matter? i.e. matters concerning the human condition. As far as I know Jesus had nothing to say about the shape of the earth or extraterrestrial beings, so any response I could give would have to be my own personal opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by stevo
Firstly, re aliens. It's an interesting question which I have thought about from time to time but I can't say it's kept me awake at night! If there are sentient beings out there similar to us, then like everything else in nature they were created by God. That does not in any way demean us, human kind. Perhaps we are unique in the sense that we alone acknowledge that there is a creator (God) which gives us a special relationship with him – who knows? So, no, proof of the existence of alien beings would not contradict my beliefs.
Secondly, re flat earth. I suspect Jesus wouldn't have wasted time discussing the shape of the earth and being God in human form he would have known the shape as he created it! What bearing would such knowledge have on what he would have regarded as being important in life? What use would such knowledge be to a blind beggar on the streets of Jerusalem in the 1st century or an orphaned child in Gaza in the 21st? These are the things he cares about.
My prophecy came true then!...Quote:
Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie
I'm pretty confident that no-one who contributes to this debate will bother to read either of these as it will take some considerable time/effort and will instead probably take a short cut and read a summary critique by some well known atheist.
In the evidence for the Resurrection we should expect the likes of Fitzgerald and many others to try and discredit anyone who dares to suggest that history and science confirm what would be disasterous for the agnostic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gofer Blue
I note the response from one qualifed Doctor of Philosophy:-
People coming to read your article are told by Fitzgerald that Strobel is interviewing preachers, who have no expertise in New Testament history, and he provides the example of a person who has a PhD in the topic and who publishes in peer-reviewed New Testament journals! That is misleading. Utterly and objectively. But then this is Fitzgerald, the guy who routinely massacres classical history in his polemical books. He has a pretty long and substantiated record of playing loose with the facts in order to score an ideological point (e.g. his use and appeal to Seneca, Philo, Aramaic etc is just as troublesome). The phrase people in glass houses shouldn’t throw bricks rather springs to mind.
Strobel addresses the attempts to discredit his research You can look up each individual from the information in the article linked below.
FULL ARTICLE (small section below)
Why did I choose these scholars to interview for the book after having thoroughly studied literature from atheists, skeptics, left-wing professors, and others? Because after assessing the wide range of scholarship, I concluded that the views of these scholars most closely cohered to the historical record. The experts I interviewed have PhDs from Cambridge, Brandeis, Princeton, Durham, USC, Purdue and other major institutions. Incidentally, in his online post the atheist sought to disparage one interviewee by saying he was merely a “Baptist pastor,” neglecting to mention that he has a doctorate in New Testament from the University of Aberdeen and is a widely published and respected professor at a major seminary.
My books report extensively on the evidence for Christianity. I conducted each interview as reported, tape recorded them, edited them to fit the space (as my books disclose), and even allowed each interviewee, whether skeptic or Christian, to review the finished chapter before publication to ensure I hadn’t accidentally introduced any errors in the editing process. I gave each of them free rein to correct anything that was not accurate.
Now, twenty years after The Case for Christ came out, along comes this Internet post with the provocative headline that I somehow “fabricated” my story. That is false, plain and simple. In fact, if you read the post carefully, you’ll see he never really disputes that I was a spiritual skeptic who came to faith through an investigation of the evidence. Rather, he uses innuendo, half-truths, inaccuracies and twisted facts in an unsuccessful attempt to cast doubt on the credibility of my books.
Well first of all I watched the whole of the video that truthpaste linked to and I found it less than evidence per se. I also thought, and stated so on here, that his earlier hedonistic lifestyle being due to not being a Christian, was lacking in intellectual rigour. So rather than waste more time I looked him up on the net.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gofer Blue
If I posted a link on here regarding what I would consider to be related to humanity's possibly most important figure, I would hope that such a link was not authored by someone who is less than authorititve and whose comments and professional integrity seem to be questioned.
I didn't state that Strobel's detractors were right and I simply stated that the comments concerened were interesting. However, they did seem to have a similarity or two in parts that I detected from the video but I don't hold up their comments as authorititve.
If I posted a link to a book on evolution I would understand if you read up on the author before committing to reading the book - and if it transpires that he also believed in fairies you may be a tad reticent to swallow his work whole.
By the way, using your own logic, have you ever read an authorititve book on evolution that has been revised this century? If so, which one and what flaws did you find in it?
Noted. So what type of evidence would convince you that Christ died, and was then seen alive after His death?Quote:
Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie
Grainy 12fps CCTV footage in black and whiteQuote:
Originally Posted by truthpaste