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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
Mazyouna Damoo, her mother and her sister (all injured in the same Israeli attack) crossed into Jordan early this morning. Her father was not allowed to go with them and has been left behind in Gaza. I can't see any details of when they will be able to travel on to the USA for surgery and further treatment.
This may be 'an answer to your prayers'. But I think it is more likely a response to negative international press coverage that was causing major embarrassment to the Israeli government. But the vast majority of the 2,500 children in Gaza in the same position did not get that level of international exposure and are going nowhere.
Thanks for that update. There has been a lot of negative international press coverage about the whole Gaza situation but I don't see much in the way of embarrassment within the Israeli government!
I don't expect to get a reply from the Israeli ambassador but if I do I think it will say something along the lines of "look, we ARE helping the Palestinian children - we have allowed the girl you named to leave with her mother and sister to go to Jordan" and quietly forgetting about the thousands of others as you say.
Let's see how this case works out. I'd be happy to write to the ambassador again and remind her of these anonymous children who are in a similar position. As you may remember I posted a while back that I have already written to my previous M.P. and the previous Home Secretary about a Kindertransport type scheme for Palestinian children but this idea has been rejected out of hand because of the sheer scale of the problem; but if limited to just those children who are in need of immediate surgical intervention, then in conjunction with medical charities it may be viable?
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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
That reply will have been noted.
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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
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Originally Posted by
truthpaste
That reply will have been noted.
By yor invisible, secret friend? Wow!
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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
truthpaste
I am saying nothing has changed since the days of David, God has (for reasons only known to Himself) chosen one race of people to be the race that He ultimately blesses the world with, He already knew in advance of their disobedience when He made the *promise to their father, Abraham, yet He honoured and continues to honour that promise. I'm sure like many of us, He is appalled at their recent actions, and not for the first time. However as His prophet Zechariah stated around 520BC, Jerusalem would prove to be “An Immovable Rock for all Nations” (12:3). Anyone with even a passing interest in history would be be aware of this.
* That promise - “I will make you into a great nation, and I will bless you; I will make your name great, and you will be a blessing. I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you. (Genesis 12:2-3)
I don’t pay much attention to what you post normally, but you’re a Christian aren’t you? Are you seriously saying that all Christians have no alternative but to pardon the atrocities Israel has committed in 2024 because of what 12:3 of what I presume is the book of Genesis says?
If you aren’t a Christian and you’re a Jew, there are hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of them who would have a problem with your interpretation based, as it is, on the book which says the world was created in six days.
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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...against-israel
About time this sort of article appeared in the mainstream media. No surprise who wrote it.
....
And last Monday, there was global outrage at the killing of two Gazan footballers, Eyad Abu-Khater and Hisham Al-Thaltini, in Israeli air strikes.
Obviously I’m joking about the last one. Nobody gave a shit about that. Or any of the 344 Palestinian footballers killed by Israel since last October, or the fact that teams from Israel’s West Bank settlements play in their domestic league in violation of Fifa rules, or that the Palestinian West Bank league has been suspended indefinitely.
In the face of this, inaction begins to feel like its own conscious choice. It’s six months since Fifa promised a prompt ruling on whether or not to impose sanctions on Israel’s national team for the actions of its government, and we’re still waiting. It’s four months since Israeli athletes competed at the Olympic Games after the International Olympic Committee president, Thomas Bach, declared: “We are not in the political business.” It’s two months since a major Israeli assault on Jenin, in the occupied West Bank, destroyed the town’s main football stadium.
....
But we know, or we should know, right from wrong. Killing children is wrong. A government that declares some humans as more worthless than others is wrong. Presiding over a famine is wrong. How is this complicated? How is this the start of a debate, rather than the end of one? How is it remotely possible to frame this horrific extravaganza of violence as the benign option, and the resistance to it — even when it comes from Jews themselves — as some kind of sublimated hatred, rather than the simplest act of conscience there is?
To resist this Israeli regime is not incompatible with resisting a Saudi World Cup or a Russian Olympic team or a Taliban ban on women’s sport. Indeed this is one and the same resistance: a resistance to the doctrine of untouchable power, a resistance to violence and othering as the solution to our common problems. And even if sport is a blunt and pointless tool of social change, it must nonetheless be deployed. Because there remains – even in this warped, ****ed fairground mirror of a world – a thing called right and a thing called wrong.
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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
I don’t pay much attention to what you post normally, but you’re a Christian aren’t you? Are you seriously saying that all Christians have no alternative but to pardon the atrocities Israel has committed in 2024 because of what 12:3 of what I presume is the book of Genesis says?
If you aren’t a Christian and you’re a Jew, there are hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of them who would have a problem with your interpretation based, as it is, on the book which says the world was created in six days.
In contrast, I do pay attention to much of what you post as I too have watched the City for a long time, in my case almost six decades and already knew many of the characters in your chosen profile picture when they were in their prime (from 67/68). Your spiritual outlook is similar to many born in the 1940's and I have had the pleasure of discussing these issues on faith and Israel with many of your generation - some people are still happy to do that without getting a swift nosebleed. Two points to raise from your initial comment:-
1. Yes, I've been a Christian since 1968, and as I tried to point out using the example of King David, God did NOT approve of his behaviour on more than one occasion in his young life; yet after his deep regret and change in attitude (repentance), God honoured the promise made to Him and he went on to be a superb King.
So just like I (and any other reasonable Bible believers) do not pardon the actions of the leaders of Israel, we also recognise that there is a bigger picture playing out here. This doesn't provide Israel with a blank cheque and the ability to do as they wish as far as God is concerned, and if they (as in the case of David) don't react to recent history as God would want them to do, and if they continue to have at any point an inappropriate attitude towards fellow human beings in the future, then they will be held accountable. What you (and others) need to consider as an agnostic/ atheist, is why justice/ accountability/ human rights matter at all; if we are all the result of a chance random process, then why would anything be right or wrong? Atheists seem to want to borrow such qualities from the Laws written on our hearts by a God who doesn't exist?
2. I assume your 6 days comment is a reference to the fact that any rational human being, and certainly a respected scientist would not entertain such a notion, as science has blown away the idea of a 'young' earth and six days.
Here is an article published by the Guardian in 2006, I have heard many lectures by Professor Andrew McIntosh, who is Professor of Thermodynamics at Leeds, also Professor Stuart Burgess, Head of the Department of Mechanical Engineering at Bristol University.
I have spoken with both of these men who would be delighted to answer your questions on more technical matters and why they hold to God's account of creation. As you can see from the article, there is a massive scale of difference between both positions, but the more popular position may not be as watertight as you and others may expect.
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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
'What you (and others) need to consider as an agnostic/ atheist, is why justice/ accountability/ human rights matter at all; if we are all the result of a chance random process, then why would anything be right or wrong? Atheists seem to want to borrow such qualities from the Laws written on our hearts by a God who doesn't exist?' (Truthpaste - 22 November 2024)
What a load of arrogant, self-obsessed cobblers.
Justice, accountability and human rights are not the preserve of one strand of 'god botherers' - if it is their preserve at all (much of the evidence says otherwise). People of other religions and none are social animals, and we have developed concepts of justice and rights without reference to a stone/bronze age set of tribal foundation myths from the eastern edge of the Mediterranean.
Acceptance of the theory of evolution in no way undermines the social framework that many different people have developed over recent millenia and over very different parts of the planet.
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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
'What you (and others) need to consider as an agnostic/ atheist, is why justice/ accountability/ human rights matter at all; if we are all the result of a chance random process, then why would anything be right or wrong? Atheists seem to want to borrow such qualities from the Laws written on our hearts by a God who doesn't exist?' (Truthpaste - 22 November 2024)
What a load of arrogant, self-obsessed cobblers.
Justice, accountability and human rights are not the preserve of one strand of 'god botherers' - if it is their preserve at all (much of the evidence says otherwise). People of other religions and none are social animals, and we have developed concepts of justice and rights without reference to a stone/bronze age set of tribal foundation myths from the eastern edge of the Mediterranean.
Acceptance of the theory of evolution in no way undermines the social framework that many different people have developed over recent millenia and over very different parts of the planet.
Most of the popultion of the planet aren't Christians but seem to have moral codes of various descriptions (and some are a lot less cruel than the acts of "God" in The Bible). It's truly laughable to think that truthpaste's deity informs even those who don't believe in it.
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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
'What you (and others) need to consider as an agnostic/ atheist, is why justice/ accountability/ human rights matter at all; if we are all the result of a chance random process, then why would anything be right or wrong? Atheists seem to want to borrow such qualities from the Laws written on our hearts by a God who doesn't exist?' (Truthpaste - 22 November 2024)
What a load of arrogant, self-obsessed cobblers.
Justice, accountability and human rights are not the preserve of one strand of 'god botherers' - if it is their preserve at all (much of the evidence says otherwise). People of other religions and none are social animals, and we have developed concepts of justice and rights without reference to a stone/bronze age set of tribal foundation myths from the eastern edge of the Mediterranean.
Acceptance of the theory of evolution in no way undermines the social framework that many different people have developed over recent millenia and over very different parts of the planet.
Untrue, as in using the evolutionary model of the survival of the fittest, Hitler sought to fast-track this idea by promoting those he considered to be 'superior' and removing those he considered to be 'weaker'.
Your other point about man-made religions is weakened by the fact that the majority borrow the Biblical teaching of considering your fellow 'man' to be greater then yourself, which in fact is a million miles from the idea that is evolution.
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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
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Originally Posted by
JamesWales
Excellent, I hope they now have the sense to keep their missiles north of the Israeli boarder.
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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
truthpaste
Excellent, I hope they now have the sense to keep their missiles north of the Israeli boarder.
Yes and that Israel keep their missiles south of the Lebanese border and allow humanitarian aid into Gaza and that Hamas releases any remaining hostages.
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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
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Originally Posted by
stevo
Yes and that Israel keep their missiles south of the Lebanese border and allow humanitarian aid into Gaza and that Hamas releases any remaining hostages.
Iran have already said they will rebuild Hezbollah and even in July this year Newsweek reported:
"There has been a significant escalation in Hezbollah rocket attacks targeting Israel since October 7, with a total of 13,931 rocket alerts, averaging out at 47 per day"
So let's get some proportion here, Hezbollah has been bombarding Israel constantly for years, and long before this new Iran/ Israel development - we are not reporting for the BBC :shrug:
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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
truthpaste
Iran have already said they will rebuild Hezbollah and even in July this year Newsweek reported:
"There has been a significant escalation in Hezbollah rocket attacks targeting Israel since October 7, with a total of 13,931 rocket alerts, averaging out at 47 per day"
So let's get some proportion here, Hezbollah has been bombarding Israel constantly for years, and long before this new Iran/ Israel development - we are not reporting for the BBC :shrug:
Aggression is not confined to Hezbollah and Hamas do you not think about what is happening in the West Bank?
People burnt out of their homes by settelers with the help of the IDF.
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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jeepster
Aggression is not confined to Hezbollah and Hamas do you not think about what is happening in the West Bank?
People burnt out of their homes by settelers with the help of the IDF.
So when a point is made re Hezbollah you switch to a separate conflict? I, and almost everyone on this board have expressed an opinion that certain individuals in Israel have a lot to answer for when all the facts emerge re the details of the situation in Gaza. I don't believe every single claim but I do call for a comprehensive investigation and full accountability and justice from both sides when all the dust has settled.
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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
One small and isolated piece of good news. Any reply to your letter Gofer?
https://www.theguardian.com/global-d...ical-treatment
According to the UN children’s aid agency, Unicef, there are an estimated 2,500 children in Gaza in urgent need of medical treatment they cannot receive in the territory, where most health infrastructure has been destroyed over the past 14 months of war. It said children were being evacuated at a rate of fewer than one a day.
FAJR Scientific, a medical aid organisation, has been trying to evacuate Mazyouna for treatment to the US since June. “Due to months of delays, Mazyouna’s condition has deteriorated significantly,” said Mosab Nasser, chief executive officer at FAJR Scientific, who flew to Jordan on Wednesday to accompany the family to the US for treatment.
Nasser said children in Gaza were being denied the medical care that could save them and were then prevented from leaving for places where help awaited them, with the Israeli authorities making exceptions “only when it’s too late”.
He cited the example of four-year-old Elia Younis, who suffered fourth-degree burns and amputations after an Israeli airstrike near her home. Her mother, Eslam, also suffered severe burns and blood infection but was denied medical evacuation and died last month.
“We recently evacuated Elia to Jordan but she now has sepsis and is lying in an ICU in Amman,” said Nasser. “Doctors warn she might not make it – all this could have been avoided if she had just been allowed to evacuate sooner.”
Update on the little girl Maziona Damo -
https://www.tiktok.com/@dthrockmorti...07158921104686
I cried when I watched this video but also conscious that she is just one of hundreds, maybe thousands, of children who are suffering in similar circumstances or have possibly even died of their injuries. I will be making a donation to this organisation FAJR* in gratitude for their work. If anyone else would like to do the same this is the link:
https://fajr.org/donate/
*a not-for-profit organisation based in the USA. Active in Gaza.
Please note: I have no affiliation to this organisation and indeed had never heard of them until jon1959 posted the article about them.
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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
More info on the work of FAJR Scientific in Gaza:
https://fajr.org/support-children/
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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gofer Blue
Great to hear some good news,hope for more.
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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gofer Blue
Great news Gofer, Jordan has and will continue to have a key role to play in middle eastern affairs; I'm sure you've read about Petra.
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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
FAO Gofer Blue - Following on from the discussion earlier in the thread about writing letters (any reply from the Israeli ambassador yet?) I got a fairly comprehensive mop-up letter from my MP today on the back of months of letters, emails and petitions hitting her in box.
It may be of interest given the particular focus you have had on Israel/Palestine and as an example of politicians responding to constituent pressure:
Dear Jon....,
Thank you for contacting me about appalling events unfolding in Gaza, the West Bank and Lebanon.
We are contacting you as you have been in touch regarding the war in Gaza and Lebanon. While I have not been able to reply to every email, I would like to reassure you that all emails sent to my office have been read, and your views have been taken into consideration where I have been acting politically on this important issue. Below is an update from me on my views and the actions I have taken regarding the war in Gaza and Lebanon.
Since October 2023, I’ve consistently called for an immediate and permanent ceasefire, hostage return, and the adequate supply of aid. I’ve written to government Ministers on multiple occasions urging them to:
- Respect the interim findings of the ICJ and the independence and jurisdiction of the ICC.
- Lift the previous government’s suspension of UNRWA funding.
- Embargo arms licensing to Israel and publish their legal advice on the issue.
- And criticising the previous government’s approach to holding Israeli authorities accountable for the attack on Rafah.
During the last parliament I signed the following EDMs
1685, for an immediate cessation of hostilities.
177, for an arms embargo on Israel.
377 supporting the authority of the ICJ.
352 and 255, calling on government to publish legal advice.
While in this parliament I have signed the following EDMs
221 supporting the UN’s resolution calling for an end to Israeli presence in the occupied Palestinian territories and calling on the government to ban military exports to Israel alongside goods imports from the Israeli settlements.
363 calling for a Gaza family visa scheme.
And letters
On using hunger as a weapon of war
https://www.caabu.org/news/news/brit...war-gaza-faces
On a ceasefire
https://caabu.org/news/news/over-100...ceasefire-gaza
On forced evictions
https://www.caabu.org/news/news/uk-p...s-palestinians
https://www.caabu.org/news/news/over...t-palestinians
To call for the UK Government to impose sanctions on Israel following the International Court of Justice’s Landmark Advisory Opinion.
Reports by Human Rights Watch, the UN Commission of Inquiry on the Occupied Palestinian Territory, Amnesty International, and others cite Israel’s practise of apartheid and violations of international humanitarian law, including acts of torture and unlawful attacks. The level of violence witnessed in the occupied Gaza strip and Lebanon, including the repeated attacks on the Jabalia camp and the attacks on UN Peacekeepers are nothing short of horrendous.
It is deeply concerning that UK-made military equipment and technology is being used by the Israeli government in the bombardment of the occupied Gaza strip and Lebanon. Whilst I am pleased that the government has already suspended 30 of the 350 arms licences, I believe we should go much further. I have since written to the Secretary of State, David Lammy, highlighting that the UK is required to prevent the transfer of military equipment where there is a clear or overriding risk that such exports might be used to commit or facilitate a serious violation of international humanitarian law or international human rights law, as affirmed by Articles 6 and 7 of the Arms Trade Treaty, and criteria 1 and 2 of the UK’s Strategic Export Licensing Criteria. I believe that it is not only a moral but also a legal necessity that the UK halt all arms sales and licensing with Israel. You can find a copy of my letter here.
In Parliament, I have urged the Foreign Secretary to bring vulnerable children from Gaza to the UK for urgent medical care. I have also raised Israel’s targeting of medical personnel, which is a crime under international law, and called for sanctions. Prior to the General Election, I lobbied the previous Government to introduce an emergency family reunion scheme for those forced to leave Gaza.
I have been pleased to see the agreement and initial implementation of a ceasefire in Lebanon and hope that this is a step towards an end to this conflict.
In the face of an escalating crisis in the Middle East, I will continue to champion the rights of Palestinians to live in freedom, security, and dignity.
Thank you once again for taking the time to write to me.
Kind Regards,
Olivia Blake MP
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1 Attachment(s)
Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Olivia Blake's letter to David Lammy on 14 October 2024:
Attachment 6331
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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
jon1959 - result! Well done. Quite a lengthy reply too. Towards the end of the reply she does make a mention of evacuating vulnerable children from Gaza and asking Lammy to get on the case. I have written to Lammy (c/o the Foreign Office) twice - once by letter and once by email with a link to the video concerning the case of the little girl Mazyouna Damoo. No response as yet.
Sorry, but I can't read your M.P.'s letter to Lammy. It's too small and if I try to expand the page the text is blurred.
I have had no response from the Israeli ambassador as yet (one letter and one email sent, again with link to the Damoo video).
Also I have had no response from our new M.P. - for now I keep giving him the benefit of the doubt as he is new and is probably being bombarded with letters/emails about more important matters such pot holes and the dire state of the NHS in our neck of the woods!
Just before 10pm tonight there was an item on Al Jazeera concerning an organisation called PCRF. I looked them up on the web as I had not heard of them:
https://www.pcrf.net/about-us
One of their objectives is sending injured children from Gaza abroad for medical treatment. The PCRF spokesman on Al Jazeera said that delays are caused by the Israeli government being deliberately obstructive and very few injured children are getting out.
According to the front page of the CCMB there are 290 active members. Imagine what effect that could have if everyone of these wrote to Lammy and the Israeli ambassador. I get so frustrated when I hear people whinging about situations but do nothing about it (apart from moan)!
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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gofer Blue
Good work Gofer and Jon - I should have done more here, but have made a donation at the link above.
