Wonder how Gazza-Westbank will look in 4yrs.Quote:
Originally Posted by jon1959
Will there be any Palestinians there or full of Israeli real estate agents.
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Wonder how Gazza-Westbank will look in 4yrs.Quote:
Originally Posted by jon1959
Will there be any Palestinians there or full of Israeli real estate agents.
Probably largely depends whether they elect a bunch of racist terrorists or not I guess!? I say that in jest as people shouldn't be held accountable for their governments actions but it is still largely trueQuote:
Originally Posted by jeepster
I sincerely hope the next four years is more peaceful than the last 40 though. You won't have peace of you don't recognise your neighbouring countries right to exist (and that goes for both sides!)
I was listening to a podcast this morning where they were discussing the motivation for Trump to push the ceasefire, and the Israeli government for accepting it (at least stage 1).Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepster
The consensus was that Trump has three drivers: photo op with relatives of Israeli hostages at his inauguration; a massive commercial opportunity for him, his family and his henchmen to exploit (the Jared Kushner vision for Trumpworld on the Med with all those new Gaza hotels and casinos - and very few Palestinians); and a chance to get hold of the Nobel Peace Prize (he is pissed that Obama has one and he doesn't).
Netanyahu's motivation is more immediate and personal - just staying onside with Trump to avoid conviction and gaol, either in Tel Aviv or the Hague. He has lost Ben Gvir from his government, but Smotrich is still there and he is able to govern if Ben Gvir keeps his word not to collapse the government from outside. Very tenuous position, but it is all about kissing Trump's ring (both of them).
But 4 years down the line the Israeli and US governments are both on course to complete the ethnic cleansing of Palestine (maybe with fewer dead babies than recently) and achieving Greater Israel 'from the river to the sea'. If the world stands by and lets it happen it will happen. But I don't think Netanyahu and Trump will have everything their own way.
Not just true but crucial; and with this one comment you have touched on the key issue in this entire mess.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
Yes, the racist terrorists are the key issue:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ceasefire-deal
Time to boycott Microsoft?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-war-microsoft
It does start to show how deeply international Tech companies (like armaments companies) are tied in to repressive regimes - driven by looking for 'favourable' political outcomes as much as making money. Never mind paranoid theories about WEF chat rooms, the Great Reset, black-eyed babies, 5G mind control or deflection racist crap of the sort that dominated much of social media and the Tommy Robinson Fan Club. This is 21st Century capitalism, exploitation and control.Quote:
Originally Posted by stevo
Life isn't as black and white as you make out.
If Microsoft are making moral decisions on investments (which they aren't) is there not a strong argument that the only democracy in the Middle East and the place with by far he greatest human rights etc is in fact the best place to invest?
I have a decent amount of sympathy with criticism of Israels response to the Hamas attacks etc but this is where things start to slip into a purely anti-Israel stance
I understand why you're seeing it that way, but there's only so much we can do as citizen's in another country to make our voices heard. Besides, I'm nearly as much anti-Microsoft (as well as other giant international tech companies) as I am anti-Netenyahu/IDF. So, I'm killing two birds with one stone here.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
Democracy - and a degree of liberalism - for first class Israeli Jewish citizens. Far fewer rights for second class Israeli Arab citizens. And occupied and/or besieged Palestinian Arabs have very few rights at all and are subject to decades of contempt, exploitation and casual murder. It has been in plain sight since the state was founded. It became more explicit after 1973. It became enshrined in the constitution with the adoption of the Nation State Law about 6 years ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
That is not an ‘anti Israel stance’. Many citizens of the state of Israel - Jewish and Arab - have spent their lives fighting that apartheid system. The ease with which people parrot the ‘only democracy in the Middle East’ lie is shocking, whether it is done in ignorance or with a more sinister purpose.
Beyond the legal, systemic and institutional discrimination against non Jews in Israel and the Occupied Territories of Palestine, there are also the more recent attacks on 'Israeli Democracy' by Netanyahu and his allies - the subversion of the independent judiciary, the undermining of the role of the Attorney General, suppression of the free press (or those parts that are not cheerleaders for Netanyahu and his far right - some fascist - allies), and bans on freedom of expression across the state and civil society.
The American Jewish organisation J Street touches on just some of these:
https://jstreet.org/wp-content/uploa...emocracy-1.pdf
Some truth from Owen Jones - who was a speaker at the Palestine demonstration in London last Saturday. I know he triggers some (and I often disagree with him) but he has got this absolutely right. Maybe even underplayed it:
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...al-media-power
Good ol' Owen, he truly is a rat of an individual. He tries to pretend he dislikes the fact that Hamas took hostages but you can see how uncomfortable he is pretending to disagree with it. In terms of food. I didn't see many emaciated faces amongst the baying mobs trying to get at the hostages, the only skeletal people were the poor hostages.
As for dedicating this amount of time to tearing down Dan Hodges. Jesus, talk about an open goal, Hodges is an offensive moron and always has been. Not sure the demented rambling from Jones adds anything
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisp_1927
Hmmm... and little comment on Dan Hodges himself other than 'offensive moron'? Sounds like you're defending him to me.
But of you think Owen is a rat, what does that make Hodges?
You got from 'offensive moron' an implication of defence? Or was it the fact that I described tearing him down as an 'open goal' ?
To clarify what didn't really need clarifying. The point being made was that anyone with a brain knows that Dan Hodges is a complete numpty, not really sure your friend Owen has added anything new to the debate.
So will Hamas release the hostages by Saturday?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...says-netanyahu
Will be interesting to see if netanyahu is referring to the 3 hostages planned, or all of them. I hope it goes ahead, after the state of the last 3 I wonder how much time the others can lastQuote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
Either way, you're certainly more critical of Owen than Dan Hodges. Did you watch the whole video? Why isn't this man being prosecuted for racial hatred?Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisp_1927
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevo
I'm not a lawyer. If you think there is a case for racial hatred I'd suggest asking one. Maybe the anonymous/made up one shrieky Owen asked.
https://www.theguardian.com/global-d...rts-of-torture
At least 160 healthcare workers from Gaza, including more than 20 doctors, are believed to still be inside Israeli detention facilities as the World Health Organisation expressed deep concern about their wellbeing and safety.
Healthcare Workers Watch (HWW), a Palestinian medical NGO, said it had confirmed that 162 medical staff remained in Israeli detention, including some of Gaza’s most senior physicians, and a further 24 were missing after being taken from hospitals during the conflict.
Muath Alser, director of HWW, said the detention of large numbers of doctors, nurses, paramedics and other healthcare workers from Gaza was illegal under international law and was furthering the suffering of civilians by denying them medical expertise and care.
“Israel’s targeting of the healthcare workforce in this manner is having a devastating impact on the provision of healthcare to Palestinians, with extensive suffering, countless preventable deaths, and the effective eradication of whole medical specialities,” said Alser.
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A lawyer representing Dr Hussam Abu Safiya, director of Kamal Adwan hospital, whose detention by Israeli forces in December sparked international condemnation, recently said he had been allowed to visit Abu Safiya in detention in Ofer Prison in Ramallah for the first time and that he said he had been tortured, beaten and denied medical treatment.
The Guardian and the Arab Reporters for Investigative Journalism (ARIJ) have also heard detailed testimony from seven senior doctors who claimed they were taken from hospitals, ambulances and checkpoints in Gaza, illegally transferred across the border into Israeli-run prison facilities and subjected to months of torture, beatings, starvation and inhumane treatment before being released without charge.
“Frankly, no matter how much I talk about what I experienced in detention, it is only a fraction of what truly happened,” said Dr Mohammed Abu Selmia, director of al-Shifa hospital, who was detained for seven months in Israeli prisons before being released without charge.
“I am talking about clubbing, being beaten with rifle butts and being attacked by dogs. There was little to no food, no personal hygiene, no soap inside the cells, no water, no toilet, no toilet paper … I saw people who were dying there … I was beaten so badly I couldn’t use my legs or walk. No day passes without torture.”
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...s-to-west-bank
Waleed Lahlouh was 73, with a shock of white hair that marked his age, when Israeli soldiers shot him dead on a sunny February morning outside his home in Jenin refugee camp. Relatives said he was killed while trying to collect some winter clothes for his family.
He had fled with his children and grandchildren a week earlier when Israeli troops moved into the camp and ordered residents out within an hour. They scrambled to gather documents, valuables and phones, and had little time to pack clothes.
“He went to get some things we need, but he was shot before he even got into the house,” said his daughter Samia Lahlouh, 45. “The grandchildren ask us: ‘Grandpa was old, and didn’t do anything bad, why did they want to kill him?” She didn’t have an answer.
The Lahlouhs are among 40,000 people forced out of their homes in refugee camps across the occupied West Bank this year, the largest displacement since Israel seized the territory in 1967.
The Israeli defence minister, Israel Katz, said on Sunday that “evacuated” Palestinians would not be able to go back home this year, and sent three tanks to Jenin.
Palestinians who have lost homes and loved ones over the past month have described Jenin as a “little Gaza” because of the scale of destruction, death and displacement.