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Re: Disabled but fit for work? - Make a will
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feedback wrote on Sat, 29 August 2015 16:46
May I apologise to monkfish and others for some of my comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gluey wrote on Sat, 29 August 2015 16:38
They were over the top and uncalled for
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gluey wrote on Fri, 28 August 2015 15:36
But some of you remain I'll informed on this matter and don't have a clue what's going on
Quote:
Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY wrote on Fri, 28 August 2015 07:56
I will be visiting a centre later that provides free advice and information to people scared out of their site , one woman lost her son to suicide a few years ago , she herself is on massive amounts of psychiatric medication to deal with this mental pain, her consultant psychiatrist wrote supporting information to tell them she suffered massive levels of anxiety .......a medically trained consultant ?.....and the govt said she was fit to work , its currently under appeal
Here we go again .. http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/hehe.gif
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Re: Disabled but fit for work? - Make a will
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feedback wrote on Sat, 29 August 2015 09:08
According to Gluey and everyone else that assumes correlation equals causation, do you also believe
Storks bring babies?
If you want honest politics where we debate facts, where we use evidence based policy then I can't see anyone turning against you. At the moment though it seems like this correlation means nothing because it's being used to criticise this government. Correlations do not mean causation but they are not meaningless, can suggest things and can be discussed.
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Re: Disabled but fit for work? - Make a will
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gluey wrote on Sat, 29 August 2015 16:48
May I apologise to monkfish and others for some of my comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feedback wrote on Sat, 29 August 2015 16:46
They were over the top and uncalled for
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gluey wrote on Sat, 29 August 2015 16:38
But some of you remain I'll informed on this matter and don't have a clue what's going on
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gluey wrote on Fri, 28 August 2015 15:36
I will be visiting a centre later that provides free advice and information to people scared out of their site , one woman lost her son to suicide a few years ago , she herself is on massive amounts of psychiatric medication to deal with this mental pain, her consultant psychiatrist wrote supporting information to tell them she suffered massive levels of anxiety .......a medically trained consultant ?.....and the govt said she was fit to work , its currently under appeal
Quote:
Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY wrote on Fri, 28 August 2015 07:56
Shes very very I'll , you can see the fear in her face as she waits to sit before an appeal panel
It's a straight forward question. What evidence do you have?
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Re: Disabled but fit for work? - Make a will
Quote:
Originally Posted by surge wrote on Sat, 29 August 2015 16:49
According to Gluey and everyone else that assumes correlation equals causation, do you also believe
Storks bring babies?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feedback wrote on Sat, 29 August 2015 09:08
I'm all for debate and discussion and where evidence suggests it, for policy change - I'd support that. But we aren't seeing that here, we are seeing anti tory rhetoric based on the flimsiest of evidence. UK politics is far too partisan for meaningful discussion or debate. Posters such as yourself are few and far between.
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Re: Disabled but fit for work? - Make a will
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feedback wrote on Sat, 29 August 2015 16:49
May I apologise to monkfish and others for some of my comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gluey wrote on Sat, 29 August 2015 16:48
They were over the top and uncalled for
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feedback wrote on Sat, 29 August 2015 16:46
But some of you remain I'll informed on this matter and don't have a clue what's going on
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gluey wrote on Sat, 29 August 2015 16:38
I will be visiting a centre later that provides free advice and information to people scared out of their site , one woman lost her son to suicide a few years ago , she herself is on massive amounts of psychiatric medication to deal with this mental pain, her consultant psychiatrist wrote supporting information to tell them she suffered massive levels of anxiety .......a medically trained consultant ?.....and the govt said she was fit to work , its currently under appeal
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gluey wrote on Fri, 28 August 2015 15:36
Shes very very I'll , you can see the fear in her face as she waits to sit before an appeal panel
Quote:
Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY wrote on Fri, 28 August 2015 07:56
It's a shocking situation
What evidence do you have that it wasn't?
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Re: Disabled but fit for work? - Make a will
Quote:
Originally Posted by surge wrote on Sat, 29 August 2015 16:49
The vast majority of people get their information from the mainstream media, so that survey is hardly surprising is it.
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Re: Disabled but fit for work? - Make a will
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gluey wrote on Sat, 29 August 2015 16:59
May I apologise to monkfish and others for some of my comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feedback wrote on Sat, 29 August 2015 16:49
They were over the top and uncalled for
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gluey wrote on Sat, 29 August 2015 16:48
But some of you remain I'll informed on this matter and don't have a clue what's going on
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feedback wrote on Sat, 29 August 2015 16:46
I will be visiting a centre later that provides free advice and information to people scared out of their site , one woman lost her son to suicide a few years ago , she herself is on massive amounts of psychiatric medication to deal with this mental pain, her consultant psychiatrist wrote supporting information to tell them she suffered massive levels of anxiety .......a medically trained consultant ?.....and the govt said she was fit to work , its currently under appeal
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gluey wrote on Sat, 29 August 2015 16:38
Shes very very I'll , you can see the fear in her face as she waits to sit before an appeal panel
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gluey wrote on Fri, 28 August 2015 15:36
It's a shocking situation
Quote:
Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY wrote on Fri, 28 August 2015 07:56
Shes not pretending to have a bad back and climbing up and down ladders or jetting around the world on holiday
Im not making any claim regarding the data. I am taking it at face value. You have made a claim that the evidence is obscured and have done so on several occasions. It is therefore up to you to prove your claim by providing evidence.
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Re: Disabled but fit for work? - Make a will
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feedback wrote on Sat, 29 August 2015 16:54
According to Gluey and everyone else that assumes correlation equals causation, do you also believe
Storks bring babies?
Quote:
Originally Posted by surge wrote on Sat, 29 August 2015 16:49
It was only released due to a court order, and in a purposely obscured format.
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Re: Disabled but fit for work? - Make a will
For want of repeating myself, what evidence do you have that it was released in a puposely obscured format?
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Re: Disabled but fit for work? - Make a will
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gluey wrote on Sat, 29 August 2015 17:16
Talking of evidence, IDS said only recently that this data regarding the deaths of 'fit for work' disabled people never even existed.
Note that the data doesn't even show a correlation. It's just a single data point. From the original article it only quotes a fall in the mortality rate of all benefit claimants over a period. The deaths figure is a single point of data so there is no relationship that can be inferred.
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Re: Disabled but fit for work? - Make a will
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feedback wrote on Sat, 29 August 2015 17:19
For want of repeating myself, what evidence do you have that it was released in a puposely obscured format?
5. Statisticians and analysts say that the released data is in an obscure format, thus preventing proper analysis.
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Re: Disabled but fit for work? - Make a will
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gluey wrote on Sat, 29 August 2015 17:30
For want of repeating myself, what evidence do you have that it was released in a puposely obscured format?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feedback wrote on Sat, 29 August 2015 17:19
1. Existence of data denied by IDS.
Who said it was presented as an obscure format? What was obscure about it, and what format do you think it should have been presented as?
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Re: Disabled but fit for work? - Make a will
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gluey wrote on Sat, 29 August 2015 17:30
For want of repeating myself, what evidence do you have that it was released in a puposely obscured format?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feedback wrote on Sat, 29 August 2015 17:19
1. Existence of data denied by IDS.
http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/thumbup.gif
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Re: Disabled but fit for work? - Make a will
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Mears wrote on Sat, 29 August 2015 17:36
For want of repeating myself, what evidence do you have that it was released in a puposely obscured format?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gluey wrote on Sat, 29 August 2015 17:30
1. Existence of data denied by IDS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feedback wrote on Sat, 29 August 2015 17:19
2. Great lengths taken to thwart FOI request.
I read an article by the Guardian that claimed the info released did not fit the FOI request, which they say is a regular occurence with potentially embarassing government FOI requests. Anyone got a link?
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Re: Disabled but fit for work? - Make a will
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Mears wrote on Sat, 29 August 2015 17:36
For want of repeating myself, what evidence do you have that it was released in a puposely obscured format?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gluey wrote on Sat, 29 August 2015 17:30
1. Existence of data denied by IDS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feedback wrote on Sat, 29 August 2015 17:19
2. Great lengths taken to thwart FOI request.
The facts need to be heard in a court of law or in a public inquiry, and we all know that is never going to happen. So feel free to carry on defending the indefensible http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/thumbup.gif
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Re: Disabled but fit for work? - Make a will
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gluey wrote on Sat, 29 August 2015 17:30
For want of repeating myself, what evidence do you have that it was released in a puposely obscured format?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feedback wrote on Sat, 29 August 2015 17:19
1. Existence of data denied by IDS.
Incidentally, don't always trust statisticians - they will tell you if you sleep with your feet in a fridge and head in an oven on average you will feel comfortable.
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Re: Disabled but fit for work? - Make a will
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gluey wrote on Sat, 29 August 2015 18:41
For want of repeating myself, what evidence do you have that it was released in a puposely obscured format?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Mears wrote on Sat, 29 August 2015 17:36
1. Existence of data denied by IDS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gluey wrote on Sat, 29 August 2015 17:30
2. Great lengths taken to thwart FOI request.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feedback wrote on Sat, 29 August 2015 17:19
3. Court order required for it's release.
So we finally get to your issue - that the data wasn't in the prescribed format rather than the data is showing a correlatory effect
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Re: Disabled but fit for work? - Make a will
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gluey wrote on Sat, 29 August 2015 18:41
For want of repeating myself, what evidence do you have that it was released in a puposely obscured format?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Mears wrote on Sat, 29 August 2015 17:36
1. Existence of data denied by IDS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gluey wrote on Sat, 29 August 2015 17:30
2. Great lengths taken to thwart FOI request.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feedback wrote on Sat, 29 August 2015 17:19
3. Court order required for it's release.
http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/bow.gif http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/bow.gif http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/thumbup.gif
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Re: Disabled but fit for work? - Make a will
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gluey wrote on Sat, 29 August 2015 18:41
For want of repeating myself, what evidence do you have that it was released in a puposely obscured format?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Mears wrote on Sat, 29 August 2015 17:36
1. Existence of data denied by IDS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gluey wrote on Sat, 29 August 2015 17:30
2. Great lengths taken to thwart FOI request.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feedback wrote on Sat, 29 August 2015 17:19
3. Court order required for it's release.
I thought you were privy to the facts? Are you now suggesting you don't know the full facts and all of this guff has been your usual brand of wisdom and insight?
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Re: Disabled but fit for work? - Make a will
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feedback wrote on Sat, 29 August 2015 18:55
For want of repeating myself, what evidence do you have that it was released in a puposely obscured format?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gluey wrote on Sat, 29 August 2015 18:41
1. Existence of data denied by IDS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Mears wrote on Sat, 29 August 2015 17:36
2. Great lengths taken to thwart FOI request.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gluey wrote on Sat, 29 August 2015 17:30
3. Court order required for it's release.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feedback wrote on Sat, 29 August 2015 17:19
4. DWP finally release the data with the caveat "Any causal effects cannot be assumed."
You really are clever aren't you http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/homer.gif
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Re: Disabled but fit for work? - Make a will
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gluey wrote on Sat, 29 August 2015 18:57
For want of repeating myself, what evidence do you have that it was released in a puposely obscured format?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feedback wrote on Sat, 29 August 2015 18:55
1. Existence of data denied by IDS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gluey wrote on Sat, 29 August 2015 18:41
2. Great lengths taken to thwart FOI request.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Mears wrote on Sat, 29 August 2015 17:36
3. Court order required for it's release.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gluey wrote on Sat, 29 August 2015 17:30
4. DWP finally release the data with the caveat "Any causal effects cannot be assumed."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feedback wrote on Sat, 29 August 2015 17:19
5. Statisticians and analysts say that the released data is in an obscure format, thus preventing proper analysis.
You were the one saying you knew the facts. Now you have changed tack and said we need a public enquiry to establish the full facts. You need to make your mind up as you appear confused
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Re: Disabled but fit for work? - Make a will
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feedback wrote on Sat, 29 August 2015 18:59
For want of repeating myself, what evidence do you have that it was released in a puposely obscured format?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gluey wrote on Sat, 29 August 2015 18:57
1. Existence of data denied by IDS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feedback wrote on Sat, 29 August 2015 18:55
2. Great lengths taken to thwart FOI request.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gluey wrote on Sat, 29 August 2015 18:41
3. Court order required for it's release.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Mears wrote on Sat, 29 August 2015 17:36
4. DWP finally release the data with the caveat "Any causal effects cannot be assumed."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gluey wrote on Sat, 29 August 2015 17:30
5. Statisticians and analysts say that the released data is in an obscure format, thus preventing proper analysis.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feedback wrote on Sat, 29 August 2015 17:19
Who said it was presented as an obscure format? What was obscure about it, and what format do you think it should have been presented as?
Facts and law are two different things. You can bend the law either way using the same facts.
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Re: Disabled but fit for work? - Make a will
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gluey wrote on Sat, 29 August 2015 19:02
For want of repeating myself, what evidence do you have that it was released in a puposely obscured format?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feedback wrote on Sat, 29 August 2015 18:59
1. Existence of data denied by IDS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gluey wrote on Sat, 29 August 2015 18:57
2. Great lengths taken to thwart FOI request.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feedback wrote on Sat, 29 August 2015 18:55
3. Court order required for it's release.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gluey wrote on Sat, 29 August 2015 18:41
4. DWP finally release the data with the caveat "Any causal effects cannot be assumed."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Mears wrote on Sat, 29 August 2015 17:36
5. Statisticians and analysts say that the released data is in an obscure format, thus preventing proper analysis.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gluey wrote on Sat, 29 August 2015 17:30
Who said it was presented as an obscure format? What was obscure about it, and what format do you think it should have been presented as?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feedback wrote on Sat, 29 August 2015 17:19
What are the facts here then - facts that you can prove.
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Re: Disabled but fit for work? - Make a will
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feedback wrote on Sat, 29 August 2015 19:04
For want of repeating myself, what evidence do you have that it was released in a puposely obscured format?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gluey wrote on Sat, 29 August 2015 19:02
1. Existence of data denied by IDS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feedback wrote on Sat, 29 August 2015 18:59
2. Great lengths taken to thwart FOI request.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gluey wrote on Sat, 29 August 2015 18:57
3. Court order required for it's release.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feedback wrote on Sat, 29 August 2015 18:55
4. DWP finally release the data with the caveat "Any causal effects cannot be assumed."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gluey wrote on Sat, 29 August 2015 18:41
5. Statisticians and analysts say that the released data is in an obscure format, thus preventing proper analysis.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Mears wrote on Sat, 29 August 2015 17:36
Who said it was presented as an obscure format? What was obscure about it, and what format do you think it should have been presented as?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gluey wrote on Sat, 29 August 2015 17:30
The facts need to be heard in a court of law or in a public inquiry, and we all know that is never going to happen. So feel free to carry on defending the indefensible
http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/thumbup.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feedback wrote on Sat, 29 August 2015 17:19
I thought you were privy to the facts? Are you now suggesting you don't know the full facts and all of this guff has been your usual brand of wisdom and insight?
Most people know what is going on here. Sadly, you are just making a fool of yourself by ignoring the bigger picture and focusing on the semantics.
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Re: Disabled but fit for work? - Make a will
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gluey wrote on Sat, 29 August 2015 19:08
For want of repeating myself, what evidence do you have that it was released in a puposely obscured format?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feedback wrote on Sat, 29 August 2015 19:04
1. Existence of data denied by IDS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gluey wrote on Sat, 29 August 2015 19:02
2. Great lengths taken to thwart FOI request.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feedback wrote on Sat, 29 August 2015 18:59
3. Court order required for it's release.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gluey wrote on Sat, 29 August 2015 18:57
4. DWP finally release the data with the caveat "Any causal effects cannot be assumed."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feedback wrote on Sat, 29 August 2015 18:55
5. Statisticians and analysts say that the released data is in an obscure format, thus preventing proper analysis.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gluey wrote on Sat, 29 August 2015 18:41
Who said it was presented as an obscure format? What was obscure about it, and what format do you think it should have been presented as?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Mears wrote on Sat, 29 August 2015 17:36
The facts need to be heard in a court of law or in a public inquiry, and we all know that is never going to happen. So feel free to carry on defending the indefensible
http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/thumbup.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gluey wrote on Sat, 29 August 2015 17:30
I thought you were privy to the facts? Are you now suggesting you don't know the full facts and all of this guff has been your usual brand of wisdom and insight?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feedback wrote on Sat, 29 August 2015 17:19
It would appear that you want to be able to challenge others but don't want to be challenged yourself. Why didn't you just say so at the outset?