Re: FT: HUDDERSFIELD TOWN 2 - 1 CARDIFF CITY. Match thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trigger
I'm just a bit bored of us having 20-30% of the ball.
In the last six games under Morison (starting with the game at Barnsley), City have averaged 37% possession.
In McCarthy's last six games as manager, City averaged 44% possession.
Obviously the side is in better shape now than it was during McCarthy's last few months, and obviously possession stats aren't especially important in isolation, but they do demonstrate that the style of play the team is currently employing is not markedly different to what was being served up under McCarthy. Better, definitely, but not as different as some would have you believe.
Huddersfield are on a really good run, but they are certainly no great shakes. They have recently drawn 0-0 with Preston and Sheffield United, they beat Barnsley 1-0 and just over a month ago they drew 1-1 with Swansea. This is not a team who are a major force by Championship standards.
If you look at Huddersfield's possession stats in their last five games, they read as follows:
62% v Barnsley
45% v Preston
50% v Sheffield Utd
31% v Fulham
73% v Cardiff
It's not as if they're a team who usually dominate possession. Indeed, when they drew 1-1 at home with the Jacks in January, they only had 30% possession!
Re: FT: HUDDERSFIELD TOWN 2 - 1 CARDIFF CITY. Match thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rjk
Really strange reading this thread back.
First half everyone seemed to be in agreement that we played well, probably deserved to be a goal up, against a good team away from home.
Then we score a good goal.
Ultimately we disappointingly lose to 2 very late goals and all of a sudden the morison out brigade come creeping out of the woodwork.
We shouldn't be thinking about appointing managers based on individual results and especially not 20 minute periods at the end of games - but the general direction they are taking us.
I'm not saying that Morison is definitely the best man for the job, but let's at least judge him on the right things, not some pre-conceivd agenda
I think that we can all see that some of the recent results and performances have been decent and that is pleasing to see, but last night was very frustrating, going from what would have been an excellent 3 points to a very disappointing defeat in the space of half an hour, and people are probably over reacting to that.
The nature of the defeat was pretty galling as well - the tactics, lack of discipline, time wasting, bookings (especially in the second half), all of which point to the manager, is I suspect behind some of the dismay on here.
I didn't think that Huddersfield were especially good and you saw that when we took the game to them we created more decent chances (look at the first half alone and the shot count over the whole game).
Hence the frustration - we could have got more from the game with a different approach.
Re: FT: HUDDERSFIELD TOWN 2 - 1 CARDIFF CITY. Match thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rjk
Really strange reading this thread back.
First half everyone seemed to be in agreement that we played well, probably deserved to be a goal up, against a good team away from home.
Then we score a good goal.
Ultimately we disappointingly lose to 2 very late goals and all of a sudden the morison out brigade come creeping out of the woodwork.
We shouldn't be thinking about appointing managers based on individual results and especially not 20 minute periods at the end of games - but the general direction they are taking us.
I'm not saying that Morison is definitely the best man for the job, but let's at least judge him on the right things, not some pre-conceivd agenda
Agree. There are people on this board who would want Morison out, even if we won all of the last 13 games. We beat Peterborough comprehensively recently and played good football in the process but with only 32% possession and yet people still bang on about not being happy about having this level of possession in a game. Its ridiculous. Its what you do with the ball when you have it that counts. Spurs beat Man City away last weekend with only 29% possession !
Re: FT: HUDDERSFIELD TOWN 2 - 1 CARDIFF CITY. Match thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dml1954
Its what you do with the ball when you have it that counts.
Indeed. And last night that wasn't nearly enough as far as City are concerned.
Re: FT: HUDDERSFIELD TOWN 2 - 1 CARDIFF CITY. Match thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bobby Dandruff
I think that we can all see that some of the recent results and performances have been decent and that is pleasing to see, but last night was very frustrating, going from what would have been an excellent 3 points to a very disappointing defeat in the space of half an hour, and people are probably over reacting to that.
The nature of the defeat was pretty galling as well - the tactics, lack of discipline, time wasting, bookings (especially in the second half), all of which point to the manager, is I suspect behind some of the dismay on here.
I didn't think that Huddersfield were especially good and you saw that when we took the game to them we created more decent chances (look at the first half alone and the shot count over the whole game).
Hence the frustration - we could have got more from the game with a different approach.
Good post.
Re: FT: HUDDERSFIELD TOWN 2 - 1 CARDIFF CITY. Match thread
For me I thought we were unlucky last night but hope we learn the lessons where we need to
It seems that a % of posters enjoy revelling in the negative side of our club regardless considering that the board doesn't appear to have a high number of individual posters in real terms
I suppose its like the fact that bad news stories sells papers not good news stories
This board can suck the life out of you sometimes but hey ho as long as they are happy elsewhere in their lives that's the main thing
Re: FT: HUDDERSFIELD TOWN 2 - 1 CARDIFF CITY. Match thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Nobody's Rep
I suppose its like the fact that bad news stories sells papers not good news stories
Maybe. Or perhaps it's the fact that supporters are witnessing the club's poorest season for around 15 years and City currently have an interim manager who sharply divides opinion.
Re: FT: HUDDERSFIELD TOWN 2 - 1 CARDIFF CITY. Match thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Lone Gunman
Maybe. Or perhaps it's the fact that supporters are witnessing the club's poorest season for around 15 years and City currently have an interim manager who sharply divides opinion.
Which is in the process of improving, overall, as the weeks fly by.
Re: FT: HUDDERSFIELD TOWN 2 - 1 CARDIFF CITY. Match thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Lone Gunman
Maybe. Or perhaps it's the fact that supporters are witnessing the club's poorest season for around 15 years and City currently have an interim manager who sharply divides opinion.
Periods of this season have been bad but I have been overall happy since McCarthy went as the guy was deluded and if there was anyone who didn't divide the fan base it was him - everyone thought he was shit
I can see progress and yes it's not stellar but it is a change of direction and happy with the young ones that have come in and "established themselves"
As for the last 15 years I think there have been worse periods including various visits to the courts with the risk of administration to poor performances on the pitch and I would class this season in there at the top
It is also about how you see the world and I was quite happy to accept relegation because over the course of a season if that's what you get it is what you normally deserve (taking aside any points deduction which isn't the players fault)
So for me it is enjoying the football in the moment and spending time with those you wish to spend time with and not to get to high with isolated results and not to low over poor results
Re: FT: HUDDERSFIELD TOWN 2 - 1 CARDIFF CITY. Match thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Nobody's Rep
So for me it is enjoying the football in the moment and spending time with those you wish to spend time with and not to get to high with isolated results and not to low over poor results
I'm sure most of us think along similar lines to greater or lesser degrees. However, you were suggesting that people are "revelling in the negative side of our club." I was merely pointing out that there are concrete reasons why people are unimpressed with the current situation. Cardiff City are, after all, presently on course for their lowest finish in the Championship for many years, so you can't expect people to be turning cartwheels. Meanwhile, the club's rookie manager is very much someone who divides opinion and there are good reasons for that too.
Re: FT: HUDDERSFIELD TOWN 2 - 1 CARDIFF CITY. Match thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trigger
I'm just a bit bored of us having 20-30% of the ball.
I get it against far superior clubs and teams, but is it really necessary against Huddersfield? Do we really have absolutely no chance against them if we try to play a bit more?
Because when we did press a little more forward (not much beyond our half but at times) in the first half they looked a little wobbly at the back on the night.
Second half we retreated almost to our own box at times and we're still getting beaten down the flanks.
I know Huddersfield are obviously better than us at the moment and play a slower tempo passing game so how they play will dictate how we do to an extent. But our tactics of sitting right off undoubtedly gave them far more time than was needed.
Defending deeply is OK providing you stop at least some their crosses getting in. They were getting the ball to their two wide men with ease almost every attack, and apart from one poor corner, they always looked dangerous in those situations. We just couldn't get Bagan and Drameh into the same sort of positions - that's the benefit of a ball-playing midfield, I suppose.
Re: FT: HUDDERSFIELD TOWN 2 - 1 CARDIFF CITY. Match thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Lone Gunman
I'm sure most of us think along similar lines to greater or lesser degrees. However, you were suggesting that people are "revelling in the negative side of our club." I was merely pointing out that there are concrete reasons why people are unimpressed with the current situation. Cardiff City are, after all, presently on course for their lowest finish in the Championship for many years, so you can't expect people to be turning cartwheels. Meanwhile, the club's rookie manager is very much someone who divides opinion and there are good reasons for that too.
Absolutely it is all about degrees but you will find the same people in the threads about the ticket office or whatever the latest moan about the club is - that was my point not just necessarily about the current side and its manager and not sure I agree its been that bad or not as bad as some I can remember so again it's about degrees
Re: FT: HUDDERSFIELD TOWN 2 - 1 CARDIFF CITY. Match thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Lone Gunman
I'm sure most of us think along similar lines to greater or lesser degrees. However, you were suggesting that people are "revelling in the negative side of our club." I was merely pointing out that there are concrete reasons why people are unimpressed with the current situation. Cardiff City are, after all, presently on course for their lowest finish in the Championship for many years, so you can't expect people to be turning cartwheels. Meanwhile, the club's rookie manager is very much someone who divides opinion and there are good reasons for that too.
Sure, this is going to be the worst season at this level for a long time. But it was always going to be that way.
As soon as the premier league money ran out, and we were left with a group of overpaid, under-performing, ageing players then it was always going to be a struggle this season.
It's the first season in a decade or more, that we haven't had a significant financial advantage over the majority of the sides in the division.
We are now operating in the same world as the Prestons, Bristol Cities and a bunch of other middling championship clubs, with the added disadvantage of having so much of our budget tied up in the underperforming players previously mentioned. We have been fighting with one arm tied behind our backs effectively.
Back at the start of the season, I said that I thought a good season would be to stay clear of relegation and manage to bring through 2 or 3 players from the academy sides, to make the rebiulding easier the next season. I believe at the same time you were saying you'd be amazed if we weren't in the playoffs.
Well we've stayed a lot closed to relegation than I would have wanted, but done well with the youth introduction. If we manage to get Denham a run of games before the end of the year you could even argue its been a good season.
It's all about expectations I suppose.
As for the manager dividing opinions, that's definitely true. I can't quite work out why some people are so dead against him, but that's their perogative I suppose. I hope he does well, but if we bring in another manager I'm not going to start any wailing and gnashing of teeth about it - as long as it isn't Warnock or similar.
Re: FT: HUDDERSFIELD TOWN 2 - 1 CARDIFF CITY. Match thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rjk
Sure, this is going to be the worst season at this level for a long time. But it was always going to be that way.
As soon as the premier league money ran out, and we were left with a group of overpaid, under-performing, ageing players then it was always going to be a struggle this season.
It's the first season in a decade or more, that we haven't had a significant financial advantage over the majority of the sides in the division.
We are now operating in the same world as the Prestons, Bristol Cities and a bunch of other middling championship clubs, with the added disadvantage of having so much of our budget tied up in the underperforming players previously mentioned. We have been fighting with one arm tied behind our backs effectively.
Back at the start of the season, I said that I thought a good season would be to stay clear of relegation and manage to bring through 2 or 3 players from the academy sides, to make the rebiulding easier the next season. I believe at the same time you were saying you'd be amazed if we weren't in the playoffs.
Well we've stayed a lot closed to relegation than I would have wanted, but done well with the youth introduction. If we manage to get Denham a run of games before the end of the year you could even argue its been a good season.
It's all about expectations I suppose.
As for the manager dividing opinions, that's definitely true. I can't quite work out why some people are so dead against him, but that's their perogative I suppose. I hope he does well, but if we bring in another manager I'm not going to start any wailing and gnashing of teeth about it - as long as it isn't Warnock or similar.
Good post. We used to go round and round in circles on the Academy thread debating how we were ever going to bring our youngsters through when the first team set up so differently to how they're used to playing. It was never going to be a quick fix but it feels like we're finally edging towards that now and hopefully we'll see more signs of it once safety is assured.
I don't get the anti-Morison stuff either but each to their own. The match day thread won't be a pretty sight if we lose to Swansea, that's for sure.
Re: FT: HUDDERSFIELD TOWN 2 - 1 CARDIFF CITY. Match thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trigger
I'm just a bit bored of us having 20-30% of the ball.
I get it against far superior clubs and teams, but is it really necessary against Huddersfield? Do we really have absolutely no chance against them if we try to play a bit more?
Because when we did press a little more forward (not much beyond our half but at times) in the first half they looked a little wobbly at the back on the night.
Second half we retreated almost to our own box at times and we're still getting beaten down the flanks.
I know Huddersfield are obviously better than us at the moment and play a slower tempo passing game so how they play will dictate how we do to an extent. But our tactics of sitting right off undoubtedly gave them far more time than was needed.
I agree with you on possession percentages. I get their not all important now, but, in a funny way, I think people are being short changed when their team goes out happy to let the opposition have, say, seventy per cent of the ball - no one got into football as a youngster because they admired the defensive shape of a team they were watching. That said, while City appear content to let their opponents have the ball, I’m still not convinced that we’re in a position to play a proper passing game yet - if the desire was there to do so. We’re still not good enough in possession to beat a concerted press and too many of our players lack the awareness to fully see the options available to them.
Re: FT: HUDDERSFIELD TOWN 2 - 1 CARDIFF CITY. Match thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rjk
Sure, this is going to be the worst season at this level for a long time. But it was always going to be that way. As soon as the premier league money ran out, and we were left with a group of overpaid, under-performing, ageing players then it was always going to be a struggle this season.
I don't accept that it was inevitable this season was going to be a struggle. City finished 8th in 2020/21 and were the 6th-best side during the second half of the season. The team averaged 1.77 points per game after McCarthy arrived and the Bluebirds were seen by many pundits as a decent bet for promotion given the obvious weakness of the division this time around.
City were ranked 5th in most of the bookmakers' pre-season lists. It's interesting looking at the title betting from August in retrospect as only two sides in the top ten back then have been nowhere near the promotion shake-up - Cardiff and Swansea.
The pre-season odds for the Championship title were as follows:
5/1 - Fulham
6/1 - West Brom
7/1 - Sheffield United
9/1 - Bournemouth
16/1 - Cardiff
20/1 - Middlesbrough
20/1 - Nottingham Forest
22/1 - Stoke
22/1 - Swansea
25/1 - QPR
I remember you were relatively pessimistic about City's chances this season, but yours wasn't the general opinion. Most fans and pundits expected the team to do a whole lot better than it has. I hear what you say about the lack of parachute payments this season, but the same is true for no less than 19 other Championship clubs, so it's hardly an excuse for the current league position.
You've suggested that if Morison gives Denham a run of games, it could even be argued that 2021/22 has been a good season. Considering the campaign has included a club-record run of defeats, a run of 25 league games without a clean sheet, 9 home defeats (so far) and has seen the team hovering just above the relegation zone for six months, I think that suggestion is just ludicrous. The season hasn't been a disaster as the club won't get relegated, but it certainly hasn't been good.
Re: FT: HUDDERSFIELD TOWN 2 - 1 CARDIFF CITY. Match thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
I agree with you on possession percentages. I get their not all important now, but, in a funny way, I think people are being short changed when their team goes out happy to let the opposition have, say, seventy per cent of the ball - no one got into football as a youngster because they admired the defensive shape of a team they were watching. That said, while City appear content to let their opponents have the ball, I’m still not convinced that we’re in a position to play a proper passing game yet - if the desire was there to do so. We’re still not good enough in possession to beat a concerted press and too many of our players lack the awareness to fully see the options available to them.
If nothing else I would like Morison's priority during the summer transfer period to be developing a team fit to play a reasonable passing game. With a clear out of the old guard and even a fairly modest transfer pot I think it could be achieved. My own preference would be to move to 4-4-2, particularly in away matches.
Re: FT: HUDDERSFIELD TOWN 2 - 1 CARDIFF CITY. Match thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dorcus
If nothing else I would like Morison's priority during the summer transfer period to be developing a team fit to play a reasonable passing game. With a clear out of the old guard and even a fairly modest transfer pot I think it could be achieved. My own preference would be to move to 4-4-2, particularly in away matches.
Good luck with that :hehe:.
Also Morison failed to implement an effective passing style of play with Doyle, Drameh, Bagan, Ralls, Wintle etc. He's going to have to do it without most of them, and Ralls, Vaulks, Pack, Flint, Morrison, Hugill, Smithies etc etc. Some of them may be positives but they all need replacing. There's also some very good players in our side and he still can't get them to play. He can say all he wants about passing football but if he can't get us to pass the ball with Drameh, Bagan, Wintle, Ralls and Doyle in them team, when can he? I know it just isn't about the midfield but Hugill is his man, Ng is as good a passer as we'll get and McGuinness is certain to play next season. That leaves Morrison/Flint and Davies (who can play).