New Party on the Left

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Originally Posted by jon1959

Not wanting a clash of egos at the top of a new party is delusional? OK.

But you are right that the new party (if it ever happens) cannot adopt a platform that is just made up of the points of agreement amongst the (for now) leading figures.

There would probably be a common position on tax, public ownership and public services, Gaza, aid, internationalism, opposing austerity and poverty. But there are major differences around social policies and I expect ‘trans rights’ to be the place where that kicks off.

That said there is more chance of ‘a new kind of politics’ as Corbyn promised when he became Labour leader - which ended up as ‘policies not personalities’ and him asking questions from the public at PMQs. This is his chance to make it a reality.

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Yeah i think it is, as i said politicians go into politics to make the change that they feel strongly about. Inevitably there is going to come a point where someone who feels strongly gets outvoted by the membership or by other prominent folk, what do they do at that point? Ditch the view they have held for years, use the tools at their disposal to change the direction of the party or breakaway again. I mean i cant think of a good example of a successful political party avoiding egos clashing, you could possible cite the lib dems right now but when your job is just to say stuff that feels right, life is simple, their last stint with power during the coalition showed how quickly it can get messy.

The issue with having a manifesto by consensus is a) the above and b) we would find the party adopt positions that are completely incompatible with each other just be because they feel right. For example if you think the governments main priority should be reducing the ratio of fixed monthly costs to salary and one of your main chosen solutions is to build more homes, you cant ignore immigration, whether its high paid or low paid. If you are running a party and the memberships wants cheaper housing and wants to maintain migration, you have a far larger problem to solve.

I see you can now join the Yourparty again.

Not surprisingly I won't be joining.

But it is at Your party.uk for anyone interested.

I see you can now join the Yourparty again.

Not surprisingly I won't be joining.

But it is at Your party.uk for anyone interested.

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Originally Posted by Elwood Blues

I see you can now join the Yourparty again.

Not surprisingly I won't be joining.

But it is at Your party.uk for anyone interested.

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Oh that's devastating Elwood, I was counting on you to join. I thought it would be fun if we went along to party meetings together! Nevertheless, I know we can count on your support from behind the scenes.

https://www.thecanary.co/opinion/202...dmarsdn8syijsb

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Originally Posted by Dorcus

Oh that's devastating Elwood, I was counting on you to join. I thought it would be fun if we went along to party meetings together! Nevertheless, I know we can count on your support from behind the scenes.

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Unfortunately I wash my hair on party meeting nights.
Ok
Otherwise I would of course attend.

Unless I found a freshly painted wall to watch.

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Originally Posted by Elwood Blues

Unfortunately I wash my hair on party meeting nights.
Ok
Otherwise I would of course attend.

Unless I found a freshly painted wall to watch.

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Washing your hair?

Hitler had hair too that he probably washed. What a coincidence.

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Originally Posted by Elwood Blues

Unfortunately I wash my hair on party meeting nights.
Ok
Otherwise I would of course attend.

Unless I found a freshly painted wall to watch.

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Is that one hair? I’m getting closer to that stage myself!

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Washing your hair?

Hitler had hair too that he probably washed. What a coincidence.

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Come on JW don't be naughty; you know we shouldn't take the great man's name in vain, tut tut.

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Originally Posted by Dorcus

Come on JW don't be naughty; you know we shouldn't take the great man's name in vain, tut tut.

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Sorry, I needed one of those dopamine hits you get from comparing someone else to HItler.

My apologies 😔

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Sorry, I needed one of those dopamine hits you get from comparing someone else to HItler.

My apologies ��

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I am still mystified why you compared what I said to Hitler.

My reference to painting a wall was regarding the old saying of watching paint dry not to an obscure historical reference to Hitler.

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Originally Posted by Elwood Blues

I am still mystified why you compared what I said to Hitler.

My reference to painting a wall was regarding the old saying of watching paint dry not to an obscure historical reference to Hitler.

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I was joking! Cos Dorcus and others like to compare people to Hitler at random moments!

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

I was joking! Cos Dorcus and others like to compare people to Hitler at random moments!

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Never randomly JW, only precisely!

https://www.thecanary.co/uk/news/202...dmarsdn8syijsb

Zarah Sultana told attendees at the Northern March for Your Party that:

'Millions are fed up, and so they should be. In fact, they should be ****ing furious: furious that life is getting harder while wages stagnate, furious at privatised water companies, profiteering energy firms and landlords squeezing us dry, furious at waiting for weeks for a GP appointment, furious at being made to pay for the crises we did not cause, and furious at being told there is simply no alternative to this broken system.

'We know that millions of people are crying out for real change. And when Jeremy Corbyn became leader of the Labour Party it finally gave us hope that politics could be about honesty, decency, it could be about solidarity and working-class power. But the establishment attacked him and what he stood for, trying to drive the left out of public life.

'Yet here we are and we are not going anywhere. If you knock on doors in Huddersfield, if you knock on doors in Coventry, you will know that millions of people have lost faith in democracy. They see politicians in Westminster as self-serving, more interested in freebies like Sabrina Carpenter gigs and free clothes than the struggles of working-class people.

'We’re fighting for a thing called socialism. Not tweaks to a broken system, not a wealth tax here and lowering of bills here. We are calling for a fundamental transformation of society…

'We see the political class and we see the super-rich laughing at us. Well, we’re done begging for the crumbs. We’re taking the ****ing lot!

'Reform is not the answer. It is just another wing of the establishment. Funded by billionaires and aristocrats, fronted by a millionaire stockbroker, it is peddling racism to distract us from its real agenda: more privatisation, more deregulation, more handouts for the super-rich, more cuts for everyone else. We are told that there is no money for our schools, for our homes, for our hospitals, yet somehow there is always money for war, corporate bailouts and tax giveaways for the super-rich.

'A few weeks ago, I spoke at the anti-Tommy Robinson demonstration. Because we have a duty to fight back. And I’ve had my fair share of abuse. Tommy Robinson is constantly tweeting me abuse, and a so-called journalist from the Daily Express has supported calls for me to get deported.

'**** off! I’m staying right here and fighting for the country we all deserve.

'We understand that our media class is rotten to the core. They are class enemies. They fight for the super-rich.'

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Originally Posted by jon1959

https://www.thecanary.co/uk/news/202...dmarsdn8syijsb

Zarah Sultana told attendees at the Northern March for Your Party that:

'Millions are fed up, and so they should be. In fact, they should be ****ing furious: furious that life is getting harder while wages stagnate, furious at privatised water companies, profiteering energy firms and landlords squeezing us dry, furious at waiting for weeks for a GP appointment, furious at being made to pay for the crises we did not cause, and furious at being told there is simply no alternative to this broken system.

'We know that millions of people are crying out for real change. And when Jeremy Corbyn became leader of the Labour Party it finally gave us hope that politics could be about honesty, decency, it could be about solidarity and working-class power. But the establishment attacked him and what he stood for, trying to drive the left out of public life.

'Yet here we are and we are not going anywhere. If you knock on doors in Huddersfield, if you knock on doors in Coventry, you will know that millions of people have lost faith in democracy. They see politicians in Westminster as self-serving, more interested in freebies like Sabrina Carpenter gigs and free clothes than the struggles of working-class people.

'WeÂ’re fighting for a thing called socialism. Not tweaks to a broken system, not a wealth tax here and lowering of bills here. We are calling for a fundamental transformation of societyÂ…

'We see the political class and we see the super-rich laughing at us. Well, weÂ’re done begging for the crumbs. WeÂ’re taking the ****ing lot!

'Reform is not the answer. It is just another wing of the establishment. Funded by billionaires and aristocrats, fronted by a millionaire stockbroker, it is peddling racism to distract us from its real agenda: more privatisation, more deregulation, more handouts for the super-rich, more cuts for everyone else. We are told that there is no money for our schools, for our homes, for our hospitals, yet somehow there is always money for war, corporate bailouts and tax giveaways for the super-rich.

'A few weeks ago, I spoke at the anti-Tommy Robinson demonstration. Because we have a duty to fight back. And IÂ’ve had my fair share of abuse. Tommy Robinson is constantly tweeting me abuse, and a so-called journalist from the Daily Express has supported calls for me to get deported.

'**** off! IÂ’m staying right here and fighting for the country we all deserve.

'We understand that our media class is rotten to the core. They are class enemies. They fight for the super-rich.'

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If they had stood today then they would have split the anti reform vote even further and weakened the slim chance plaid had of defeating reform

Labour voters are now split between green , lib dem and this lot

I dont think those on the left of centre have learned a thing and with reform at 30 percent we havnt got time to be backing 3 parties with the low vote available

I think your party shoukd show some brains and withdraw for a while

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Originally Posted by jon1959

https://www.thecanary.co/uk/news/202...dmarsdn8syijsb

Zarah Sultana told attendees at the Northern March for Your Party that:

'Millions are fed up, and so they should be. In fact, they should be ****ing furious: furious that life is getting harder while wages stagnate, furious at privatised water companies, profiteering energy firms and landlords squeezing us dry, furious at waiting for weeks for a GP appointment, furious at being made to pay for the crises we did not cause, and furious at being told there is simply no alternative to this broken system.

'We know that millions of people are crying out for real change. And when Jeremy Corbyn became leader of the Labour Party it finally gave us hope that politics could be about honesty, decency, it could be about solidarity and working-class power. But the establishment attacked him and what he stood for, trying to drive the left out of public life.

'Yet here we are and we are not going anywhere. If you knock on doors in Huddersfield, if you knock on doors in Coventry, you will know that millions of people have lost faith in democracy. They see politicians in Westminster as self-serving, more interested in freebies like Sabrina Carpenter gigs and free clothes than the struggles of working-class people.

'We’re fighting for a thing called socialism. Not tweaks to a broken system, not a wealth tax here and lowering of bills here. We are calling for a fundamental transformation of society…

'We see the political class and we see the super-rich laughing at us. Well, we’re done begging for the crumbs. We’re taking the ****ing lot!

'Reform is not the answer. It is just another wing of the establishment. Funded by billionaires and aristocrats, fronted by a millionaire stockbroker, it is peddling racism to distract us from its real agenda: more privatisation, more deregulation, more handouts for the super-rich, more cuts for everyone else. We are told that there is no money for our schools, for our homes, for our hospitals, yet somehow there is always money for war, corporate bailouts and tax giveaways for the super-rich.

'A few weeks ago, I spoke at the anti-Tommy Robinson demonstration. Because we have a duty to fight back. And I’ve had my fair share of abuse. Tommy Robinson is constantly tweeting me abuse, and a so-called journalist from the Daily Express has supported calls for me to get deported.

'**** off! I’m staying right here and fighting for the country we all deserve.

'We understand that our media class is rotten to the core. They are class enemies. They fight for the super-rich.'

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I like her style! I'm warming to her 👌

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Originally Posted by Dorcus

I like her style! I'm warming to her 👌

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But apart from a lot of shouting surely this is just student politics

Even to get to 15 percent of the vote ....further diluting what's already swilling around on the left and centre left is going to be nigh impossible

We will then have the insane situation of reform being able to rule on 30 percent of the vote , possibly with a few tories and yourparty , labour , greens , lib dems uk wide scrapping for the rest along side snp and plaid


Four or 5 ferrets in a bag fighting each other whilst the house is on fire

Its crazy

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

But apart from a lot of shouting surely this is just student politics

Even to get to 15 percent of the vote ....further diluting what's already swilling around on the left and centre left is going to be nigh impossible

We will then have the insane situation of reform being able to rule on 30 percent of the vote , possibly with a few tories and yourparty , labour , greens , lib dems uk wide scrapping for the rest along side snp and plaid


Four or 5 ferrets in a bag fighting each other whilst the house is on fire

Its crazy

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I disagree come the big vote it will be Reform against the rest and in my opinion "Your Party" are the nearest to addressing the real issues of the working class. Immigrants aren't the enemy, the greedy elite is. You watch tactical voting becoming a work of art when the nerd arises.

Ps. I nearly changed the typo "nerd" but then I realised, Freudian wise, it's a great way to describe Nige!

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Originally Posted by Dorcus

I disagree come the big vote it will be Reform against the rest and in my opinion "Your Party" are the nearest to addressing the real issues of the working class. Immigrants aren't the enemy, the greedy elite is. You watch tactical voting becoming a work of art when the nerd arises.

Ps. I nearly changed the typo "nerd" but then I realised, Freudian wise, it's a great way to describe Nige!

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The problem is having the right vibe only gets you so far when taking over a country with all the structural problems it faces now.

I am fully on board with the 'tweaks arent going to work' vibe, that was my worry with reeves from the start, but all i see from the greens, your party and indeed reform are simple answers to complex problems.

The elephant in the room for the UK is debt and debt interest and its starting to limit what even the best intentioned folk could do when in power.

Labour have chosen to try and outrun this by chasing the mythical creature called 'growth'. Tories and reform would chase the equally mythical 'efficiency savings' creature and when they realise it doesnt exist, they would resort to continuing to destroy peoples lives by cutting and selling everything they can.

The UK has an impending welfare spending crisis coming up due to triple lock and projected benefit spending.

Id have liked to see a far more ambitious programme from labour. Council tax needs a complete overhaul, as does NI.

I thought the university funding announcement said everything. At last years budget they announced that fees would rise but a comprehensive longer term plan would be released next year... cut to next year and that plan? They will rise with inflation. Well worth the wait.

But back to the original point, whatever they are selling, im not buying it until it is something more than hot air coming from someones mouth.

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Originally Posted by Dorcus

I disagree come the big vote it will be Reform against the rest and in my opinion "Your Party" are the nearest to addressing the real issues of the working class. Immigrants aren't the enemy, the greedy elite is. You watch tactical voting becoming a work of art when the nerd arises.

Ps. I nearly changed the typo "nerd" but then I realised, Freudian wise, it's a great way to describe Nige!

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We know that greed is the problem but for most people the simple things are what they worry about and yourparty are yet more boring lectures and talks to people who already agree


We will soon see tonight if people in Caerphilly were bright enough to vote tactically

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Originally Posted by jon1959

Zarah Sultana told attendees at the Northern March for Your Party that:

'Millions are fed up, and so they should be. In fact, they should be ****ing furious

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Current affairs?

Last thing we need in wales is your party sticking their nose in and splitting the vote further now we can vote plaid

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

Last thing we need in wales is your party sticking their nose in and splitting the vote further now we can vote plaid

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I was listening to a New Statesman podcast earlier this week - which was a long discussion with James Schneider, one time bag carrier for Corbyn and one of the main organisers of Your Party. The whole thing was interesting and informative - but towards the end they got onto the approach of Your Party to The Greens under Zack Polanski. It isn't Your Party (whatever it is finally called) policy (yet) but Schneider sketched out his preferred approach around collaboration and electoral pacts. He suggested that the two parties (and maybe some others) should try out joint primaries to select candidates for the mayoral elections the year before the next General Election - so that the best person from a pool (he suggest two YP and two Greens) is selected and all the parties in the process get behind the winner. That involves party members and supporters from the start and avoids reliance on tactical voting decisions by individual voters.

I don't know if that will happen (and be extended to the GE) but the fact it has been discussed so openly so early suggests it might. If it does the 'splitting the vote' argument Sludge constantly makes becomes an irrelevance.

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Originally Posted by jon1959

I was listening to a New Statesman podcast earlier this week - which was a long discussion with James Schneider, one time bag carrier for Corbyn and one of the main organisers of Your Party. The whole thing was interesting and informative - but towards the end they got onto the approach of Your Party to The Greens under Zack Polanski. It isn't Your Party (whatever it is finally called) policy (yet) but Schneider sketched out his preferred approach around collaboration and electoral pacts. He suggested that the two parties (and maybe some others) should try out joint primaries to select candidates for the mayoral elections the year before the next General Election - so that the best person from a pool (he suggest two YP and two Greens) is selected and all the parties in the process get behind the winner. That involves party members and supporters from the start and avoids reliance on tactical voting decisions by individual voters.

I don't know if that will happen (and be extended to the GE) but the fact it has been discussed so openly so early suggests it might. If it does the 'splitting the vote' argument Sludge constantly makes becomes an irrelevance.

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I don't think there will be any "splitting the vote" come the next election. It will be all out war against Reform. It will be The Alamo all over again.

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Originally Posted by Dorcus

I don't think there will be any "splitting the vote" come the next election. It will be all out war against Reform. It will be The Alamo all over again.

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I have spent at least 5 minutes trying to think that one through - and failed! :hehe:

Are Reform the Mexicans under Santa Ana, or the Texans under Travis, Bowie and Crockett?

After a 13 day siege the 200 odd Texans (and friends) in the Alamo were wiped out.

Somehow I can't imagine Reform as either an overwhelming force of victorious Mexicans, or as an heroic (in their myth making) and doomed group represented by John Wayne, Richard Widmark and Laurence Harvey.

Nigel Farage, Richard Tice and 30p Lee Anderson are more of a Carry On cast.

The Battle of Endor is a better analogy - where the Rebel Alliance defeats the Galactic Empire?

I'm giving this too much thought........! :hehe: