Lineker dropped from Match of the Day

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

It's consistency

Either political view and political action is allowed .....or it ain't

Alan Sugar pleaded with people to vote Tory to stop corbyn .....nothing happened

Lineker ......suspended for his view of government policy

Current BBC chairman only recently under investigation for donating to the tory party

All is fair in love and war but if the conservatives can influence things then I want a level playing field or the gloves are off

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Sludge, you need to correct something. Lineker has not been suspended for his view of government policy. He didn't express any opinion of government policy. He made a comparison on the use of language used. Completely different.

Conversations similar to this thread are going on today all over the country. This is what this vile Tory government wants, people arguing amongst themselves about refugees to stoke hate and division. It’s not a few thousand refugees arriving on boats that have caused everyone’s ills in the UK and Europe, it’s those arriving on private jets and yachts.

We’ve already had the far right firebombing refugees in this country, what next?

I will always side and support those most in need, whether it’s refugees, the homeless, the hungry etc etc.

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

Sludge, you need to correct something. Lineker has not been suspended for his view of government policy. He didn't express any opinion of government policy. He made a comparison on the use of language used. Completely different.

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Well I think he was having a stab at tory policy

And I agreed with him

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Originally Posted by logic

Blah blah blah

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Thanks for the history lesson. Coming from a Jewish family who lost members during the Holocaust, and being someone who has studied that period in history extensively, I didn't really need it. But thanks all the same.

In his tweet, Lineker said the language currently being used in relation to refugees is not dissimilar to the language used in Germany in the 1930's. You claimed Nazi 'rhetoric' was aimed at a specific demographic of German society and Lineker's comparison was ignorant. You were wrong on both counts, but I'm not going to argue the toss with you. This sort of shit makes me genuinely angry, so I'm going to leave it there.

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

It's consistency

Either political view and political action is allowed .....or it ain't

Alan Sugar pleaded with people to vote Tory to stop corbyn .....nothing happened

Lineker ......suspended for his view of government policy

Current BBC chairman only recently under investigation for donating to the tory party

All is fair in love and war but if the conservatives can influence things then I want a level playing field or the gloves are off

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Than there is this. Different rules for right wing presenters such as Andrew Neil https://twitter.com/spinarellodogma/...ZQyp-iO2wYo4Kg

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Originally Posted by ninian opinian

Than there is this. Different rules for right wing presenters such as Andrew Neil https://twitter.com/spinarellodogma/...ZQyp-iO2wYo4Kg

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Chairman of BBC ......tory donor on 800 k

Director General ......stood as a tory Councillor

Impartial !

Lineker is a contractor not an employee
There are conditions in that contract that he has infringed (I believe - and not for the first time)
The govt was democratically elected and they are not executing people in the street - like they did in Germany in the 1930's

So his comparison is incorrect - and he is using his status on twitter (which the bbc has helped promote) to broadcast his political views.

As for Jason Mohammed and the rest of the pundits - yes please - can you all withdraw your services and give someone else a go.

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Originally Posted by pipster

Lineker is a contractor not an employee
There are conditions in that contract that he has infringed (I believe - and not for the first time)
The govt was democratically elected and they are not executing people in the street - like they did in Germany in the 1930's

So his comparison is incorrect - and he is using his status on twitter (which the bbc has helped promote) to broadcast his political views.

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"Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience."

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Originally Posted by pipster

Lineker is a contractor not an employee
There are conditions in that contract that he has infringed (I believe - and not for the first time)
The govt was democratically elected and they are not executing people in the street - like they did in Germany in the 1930's

So his comparison is incorrect - and he is using his status on twitter (which the bbc has helped promote) to broadcast his political views.

As for Jason Mohammed and the rest of the pundits - yes please - can you all withdraw your services and give someone else a go.

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He didn't say the government are executing people in the street , you have

He's said the language used by the Conservative government is extreme and harks back to 1930s Germany

And it does

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Originally Posted by pipster

Lineker is a contractor not an employee
There are conditions in that contract that he has infringed (I believe - and not for the first time)
The govt was democratically elected and they are not executing people in the street - like they did in Germany in the 1930's

So his comparison is incorrect - and he is using his status on twitter (which the bbc has helped promote) to broadcast his political views.

As for Jason Mohammed and the rest of the pundits - yes please - can you all withdraw your services and give someone else a go.

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How many bloody times are people going to spread these lies? READ THE TWEET AGAIN FFS.

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Originally Posted by WJ99mobile

Whether you agree or disagree with Linekars views to me is irrelevant.

It’s firstly whether you should be able to have a view separate of your employer if it doesn’t impact your work and secondly is it really necessary to air your personal views all the time.

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I think people should indeed be free to air their own views even if it's antithetic to their employers. People aren't slaves any more though there's a fair number of employers who think they should be. It's the easiest thing on the World for an employer to publicly distance themselves from their employees' views without curtailing free speech

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Originally Posted by pipster

Lineker is a contractor not an employee
There are conditions in that contract that he has infringed (I believe - and not for the first time)
The govt was democratically elected and they are not executing people in the street - like they did in Germany in the 1930's

So his comparison is incorrect - and he is using his status on twitter (which the bbc has helped promote) to broadcast his political views.

As for Jason Mohammed and the rest of the pundits - yes please - can you all withdraw your services and give someone else a go.

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The Nazis were also democratically elected and there were no executions in the streets early on

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Jon, you do normally make reasoned posts even if I don't always agree with you, but with respect, you are not doing so here.

We all know what people are saying when they accuse someone of apeing 1930s Germany. They are accusing someone or something of being like one of the greatest mass murdering regimes in history.

I do support his right to say what he wants, but it was a stupid and ignorant comment.

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The German government spent the '30s changing laws, increasing their power and demonizing certain people and races. The mass murder took place in the '40s. This may sound pedantic, but there is a difference. I don't think Lineker said anything wrong.

Sadly the main fallout from this will be that more people have now heard of a government policy that unfortunately they will very likely support.

Watching the mental gymnastics of right wingers who are having to do handbrake turns after droning on about the all powerful liberal elite and the dangers of cancel culture , is still very satisfying though.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

I'm not saying this and other analogies are not a monumental load of bollocks, but you do realize that Jews were not desperate to enter Germany during the rise of the nazis, right? indeed, they fled for their lives.

That isn't happening here. If the analogy were remotely true (it isn't) then people wouldn't be trying to come here.

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Jews were not desperate to enter Germany during the rise of the Nazis because they were already ensconced there as were they in much of Eastern Europe. It had been their home for a thousand years. There had always been some form of anti Jewish feeling but overall they were tolerated and could live peacefully. Many took German names which helped with their integration.

The "stab in the back" criticisms grew after the First World War and we know from history this lie and the German military and economic collapse gave rise to the Nazi movement

It's remarkable just how quickly afterwards evil people managed to mobilise the collective hatred against minority groups by means of scapegoating them by the use of demonizing language.

Funny thing is many of the people i've spoken to that have a view on this don't actually know what the policy is

It's either;

Tories = bad
Immigrants = bad

Usually when someone invokes Godwins's law into any debate - then it's usually all over. Godwins law being anyone that uses the line of 'that's how the Nazi's started' in defence of their opinion, which he inferred

WJ99 - I used to think bbc = football = lineker not bbc = football = lineker = his political opinion

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Originally Posted by Gofer Blue

I never watch Match of the Day as I have no interest in the Premier League but this turn of events could have interesting consequences. Suppose those who do watch MOTD discover that actually having no pundits is not a bad thing and Lineker et al are rather superfluous. The BBC could dispose of their services and save quite a bit of cash in the process. Obviously the likes of SKY would be happy to take him off their hands I would imagine.

Incidentally whilst I agree Lineker has every right to express his personal opinion what he said was totally idiotic. There is no way the current situation resembles Germany in the 1930's. If it did, we would be "disposing" of boat people very shortly after they arrive in the UK.

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I wonder if his TV pundit colleagues would be defending Lineker if he had tweeted that he actually supported the "get tough" language used by the government?

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Originally Posted by Dorcus

Jews were not desperate to enter Germany during the rise of the Nazis because they were already ensconced there as were they in much of Eastern Europe. It had been their home for a thousand years. There had always been some form of anti Jewish feeling but overall they were tolerated and could live peacefully. Many took German names which helped with their integration.

The "stab in the back" criticisms grew after the First World War and we know from history this lie and the German military and economic collapse gave rise to the Nazi movement

It's remarkable just how quickly afterwards evil people managed to mobilise the collective hatred against minority groups by means of scapegoating them by the use of demonizing language.

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But we're in a new world now with new age media.

Death camps thank heavens will NEVER happen again in a civilised democrasy

People have said this 'hostile environment' rhetoric could lead to something much worse. I completely disagree. But I do admit it doesn't do anything positive for the poor souls that do lose their lives on these boats.

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Originally Posted by Gofer Blue

I wonder if his TV pundit colleagues would be defending Lineker if he had tweeted that he actually supported the "get tough" language used by the government?

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I wonder if he would have been asked to stand down from MOTD if he had.

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Originally Posted by Gofer Blue

I wonder if his TV pundit colleagues would be defending Lineker if he had tweeted that he actually supported the "get tough" language used by the government?

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I wonder if his colleagues actually read what he wrote? Judging by your previous contribution (which you have quoted), you didn’t.

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Originally Posted by WJ99mobile

But we're in a new world now with new age media.

Death camps thank heavens will NEVER happen again in a civilised democrasy

People have said this 'hostile environment' rhetoric could lead to something much worse. I completely disagree. But I do admit it doesn't do anything positive for the poor souls that do lose their lives on these boats.

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You say you disagree but how do you conclusively know the "hostile environment" rhetoric will not lead to tragedy?

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Originally Posted by pipster

Usually when someone invokes Godwins's law into any debate - then it's usually all over. Godwins law being anyone that uses the line of 'that's how the Nazi's started' in defence of their opinion, which he inferred

WJ99 - I used to think bbc = football = lineker not bbc = football = lineker = his political opinion

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So when innocent people were being massacred in Bosnia and Rwanda for example years back was anyone using any comparison to the Nazis invoking Godwin's Law?

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Originally Posted by J R Hartley

You’re getting embroiled with Sludge again, never a good sign :hehe:

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Find it easier to come on here and be a **** and be able to carry on being nice to the people around me when I'm having a rough time ;)

Better to let steam off with strangers than take it out on family and people in work. I'm a ****ing genius son.

CCMB = Free therapy

We’re a weird old country, the withdrawing of labour by a number off BBC presenters, many ex footballers has brought a few hoorays from people with the view that they’re overpaid, no good etc. These presenters, especially the ex pros, are mostly working class people who’ve actually done what school advised them, work hard at your chosen vocation, use your skills to get on. The jealousy of the wages they earn is quite pathetic, they’ve reached the point they’re at through hard work and dedication. Perhaps the brainwashing by the right wing, old money ‘upper class’ through their controlling of the media with a ‘how dare they have as much wealth as my family has and have had for centuries’ is to blame, they know a lot of folk, sadly, will join in their disgust.

It’s not a race to the bottom and we should be proud of people who have come from the same walk of life as us, council estates etc, and they’ve highly achieved. Do other countries snipe at people who’ve got on in life like the UK does?

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Originally Posted by Gofer Blue

I wonder if his TV pundit colleagues would be defending Lineker if he had tweeted that he actually supported the "get tough" language used by the government?

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Jason Mohammed, Shearer, Wright etc - all worship Linekers @rse it seems and dote on his every word - in the hope it also boosts their public rating etc. They want to be associated with him - so I think whatever Lineker thinks - they would agree with him.

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Originally Posted by Dorcus

So when innocent people were being massacred in Bosnia and Rwanda for example years back was anyone using any comparison to the Nazis invoking Godwin's Law?

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Do a bit of research of what the German Govt was up to in the 1930's and you get this https://www.annefrank.org/en/anne-fr...-dictatorship/ - it's an interesting read of 1930's German Govt

"Jews and well-known Germans in particular had a rough time of it. SS guards at the Dachau camp, near Munich, for instance, took four Jewish prisoners outside the gates, where they shot them dead. The guards then claimed that the victims had tried to escape."

There are many other quotes in the article, I think it's a bit of a stretch for Lineker to make a similar comparison - but everyone is entitled to their opinion - unless of course they have signed a contract which has clauses re publishing - in which case the contract would be in breach - I presume Lineker is in breach - as this is the 3rd time he has been warned about it.

Let's take it to court and see what the contract lawyers make of it

no match of the day at all now


:hehe:

oh how the mighty fall... seemed to be a bit of a boycott by the viewers brewing too, so they have pulled the show

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Originally Posted by splott parker

We’re a weird old country, the withdrawing of labour by a number off BBC presenters, many ex footballers has brought a few hoorays from people with the view that they’re overpaid, no good etc. These presenters, especially the ex pros, are mostly working class people who’ve actually done what school advised them, work hard at your chosen vocation, use your skills to get on. The jealousy of the wages they earn is quite pathetic, they’ve reached the point they’re at through hard work and dedication. Perhaps the brainwashing by the right wing, old money ‘upper class’ through their controlling of the media with a ‘how dare they have as much wealth as my family has and have had for centuries’ is to blame, they know a lot of folk, sadly, will join in their disgust.

It’s not a race to the bottom and we should be proud of people who have come from the same walk of life as us, council estates etc, and they’ve highly achieved. Do other countries snipe at people who’ve got on in life like the UK does?

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I don't begrudge players a penny; it would only go in a director's pocket instead. But I don't think Lineker and Shearer (especially) in their current roles provide value for money. Few would miss them if they were replaced and in the latter's case a hatstand would be more informative and the (public) money better spent. However, this situation looks like it'll die down and MOTD will return to its usual boring, complacent old pals format.

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Originally Posted by pipster

Do a bit of research of what the German Govt was up to in the 1930's and you get this https://www.annefrank.org/en/anne-fr...-dictatorship/ - it's an interesting read of 1930's German Govt

"Jews and well-known Germans in particular had a rough time of it. SS guards at the Dachau camp, near Munich, for instance, took four Jewish prisoners outside the gates, where they shot them dead. The guards then claimed that the victims had tried to escape."

There are many other quotes in the article, I think it's a bit of a stretch for Lineker to make a similar comparison - but everyone is entitled to their opinion - unless of course they have signed a contract which has clauses re publishing - in which case the contract would be in breach - I presume Lineker is in breach - as this is the 3rd time he has been warned about it.

Let's take it to court and see what the contract lawyers make of it

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So you're saying there were never any instances of violence in Bosnia and Rwanda?

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Originally Posted by Dorcus

So you're saying there were never any instances of violence in Bosnia and Rwanda?

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That's a very weak straw man argument - "so what you're saying" - that is what did for Cathy Newman on channel 4 news. You tried to widen the debate by introducing Rwanda / Bosnia and then attempted the "so what your saying is" trick

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nS9W-wlJHPA

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Originally Posted by pipster

That's a very weak straw man argument - "so what you're saying" - that is what did for Cathy Newman on channel 4 news. You introduced Rwanda / Bosnia

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nS9W-wlJHPA

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No not at all. You were spouting on about this ridiculous "Godwin's Law" and I asked if it applied to people making comparisons with Nazi history at the time of the massacres in Bosnia and Rwanda.

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Originally Posted by pipster

Jason Mohammed, Shearer, Wright etc - all worship Linekers @rse it seems and dote on his every word - in the hope it also boosts their public rating etc. They want to be associated with him - so I think whatever Lineker thinks - they would agree with him.

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None of them have said they support what Lineker has said. They support his right to speak his mind cos if he can't then none of them can.

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Originally Posted by Dorcus

No not at all. You were spouting on about this ridiculous "Godwin's Law" and I asked if it applied to people making comparisons with Nazi history at the time of the massacres in Bosnia and Rwanda.

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Lol 'spouting' - go look up Godwin's law yourself (it's not ridiculous btw)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jXqVGtxFppQ#bottom-sheet

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Originally Posted by pipster

Lol 'spouting' - go look up Godwin's law yourself (it's not ridiculous btw)

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Oh great. Hitler's back under a different username.

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Originally Posted by fugsyphil

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jXqVGtxFppQ#bottom-sheet

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Excellent! As usual.

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Originally Posted by The Bloop

None of them have said they support what Lineker has said. They support his right to speak his mind cos if he can't then none of them can.

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but if they had any "balls" they would support what he said .

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Originally Posted by The Bloop

None of them have said they support what Lineker has said. They support his right to speak his mind cos if he can't then none of them can.

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Originally Posted by ToTaL ITK

but if they had any "balls" they would support what he said .

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That's not the point. They're not allowed to express their views either way, even if they think Bravermans policy was the dogs b0ll0cks.

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Originally Posted by ToTaL ITK

but if they had any "balls" they would support what he said .

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Why does that take balls? Coming up with no solution and just throwing insults on social media from the comfort of a big house isn't "ballsy" at all. Its the easiest thing in the world.

Making difficult decisions is ballsy.