you choose not to beleive the thing you think I made up. that's OK. Have a nice day lolQuote:
Originally Posted by delmbox
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you choose not to beleive the thing you think I made up. that's OK. Have a nice day lolQuote:
Originally Posted by delmbox
Name these people, then. Actually, f**k it... Name a person whom you are referring to.Quote:
Originally Posted by xsnaggle
Easy to ask that because you know it's never going to happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Heisenberg
What are you on about? The onus is on you to provide evidence if you are making an accusation. If you can't name a single person who wants the pubs to stay closed then why would you even suggest it?Quote:
Originally Posted by xsnaggle
It's not true in the slightest, mate.
What's never going to happen?Quote:
Originally Posted by xsnaggle
It is true. Whether you believe me or not isn't relevant. If you honestly think there are not people like that in Wales then you must live in a bubble. But that's up to you. as I have told you so often, this is just a football message board. What it certainly is not is a group with its finger on the pulse of the nation, not by a long chalk!! :hehe:Quote:
Originally Posted by Heisenberg
He means the pubs won't stay closed so we won't get to find out who these imaginary people who want them to stay closed are.Quote:
Originally Posted by Croesy Blue
Who are they? And what influence do they have?Quote:
Originally Posted by xsnaggle
If the pubs won't stay closed why is he even worrying about these people? :hehe: And how shit is their "undue influence"Quote:
Originally Posted by Heisenberg
But you've got your finger on the pulse of the nation as you know of all these people that you speak of who want pubs to remain closed - "people with influence", even.Quote:
Originally Posted by xsnaggle
Yet, you have failed to name a single person who you accuse of having these thoughts/beliefs/intentions... because you're making it up.
I'm not "accusing" anyone. It's not a crime or something but they do have a disproportionate influence on people who make decisions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Heisenberg
I spoke about some of these in a previous thread. I'm not going to repeat myself. Take it as my opinion, then you can either agree or not but it isn't going to change any time soon.
Link me to what you said about these people then, because you're chatting shit, xsnaggle :hehe:Quote:
Originally Posted by xsnaggle
Like I said, its my opinion, take it or leave it. If you're so anxious to find it you look for it. I can't be bothered, but I seem to recall it was in this thread some weeks ago, if that helps. Enjoy searching. lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Heisenberg
So it’s your opinion that these people exist who don’t want pubs to open and have undue influence over people in power ? :hehe:
In the welsh community, yes, definitely, just as you might say Cummins has an undue influence with boris.Quote:
Originally Posted by Croesy Blue
It's your opinion now. OK then, because you didn't pre-empt any of your previous musings about the topic with an "in my opinion" or "it's my belief" - it was stated as fact.Quote:
Originally Posted by xsnaggle
"Some people believe that all pubs should be closed and never allowed to reopen" doesn't sound like an opinon to me.
Does he not want to open pubs? :hehe:Quote:
Originally Posted by xsnaggle
Unlike some on here I never state something as 'fact' unless its something I have actually done. Many state things as fact when they are not in the hope that if they repeat it often enough it will be accepted as fact. A theory very close to Gobbells' heart I believe. I honestly fail to see why people are so interested in what i say as to keep on and on about it. you must be very very bored!Quote:
Originally Posted by Heisenberg
You mean like your "Some people believe that all pubs should be closed and never allowed to reopen" theory that you've repeated several times :hehe:Quote:
Originally Posted by xsnaggle
But I never said it was a fact where as often on here people do. I don't give a toss who believes what. When we chat we never prefix or qualify things we say with "This is a fact" or "this is conjecture" or whatever, we just say what we think. That's what I do. It's other people who love to pick at a certain word or a certain interpretation they put on it and try to make out the person said or meant something he didn'tQuote:
Originally Posted by Heisenberg
as I said, you can go on all day, argue amongst yourselves if you wish,Ii really don't give a toss. :-) Lets wait and see what the governemt actually does shall we? Because we on this board certainly are not going to influence anything.
You've only just admitted that it was your opinion - despite being challenged by several posters on different occasions... that's why we're having this conversation now.Quote:
Originally Posted by xsnaggle
I never said it was fact but on here people want chapter and verse for everything said, 'link' 'where did you see' that 'prove it' etc. its nonsense. You would never conduct an ordinary conversation in a pub like that. Anyone would think it was a court of law. It's not. Nothing said on here will ever affect anything, its just a football chat site. nothing more. Chat and enjoy. All the the Faux outrage, the righteous indignation and the 'holier than thou' PCposturing is just a load of bollox.Quote:
Originally Posted by Heisenberg
You did the same with Cyril yesterday about EU regs :hehe:Quote:
Originally Posted by xsnaggle
What the **** are you going on about now :hehe:Quote:
Originally Posted by xsnaggle
If someone said to me in real life "there are people with undue influence trying to stop pubs opening!" I would definitely ask who they are. :hehe:
There is no faux outrage, you are genuinley just chatting shit.
I asked him where he got it from and he told me. I accepted it. I didn't continue to question it are trawl the web trying to find something that contradicts it like some on here might.Quote:
Originally Posted by Heisenberg
Yes but you won't tell us where you've got this nonsense from.Quote:
Originally Posted by xsnaggle
It is from my own observations and general knowledge, my experiences from living here. And i trust my won experiences and instincts a lt more than some of the shite touted on her believe me. Now that's enough. i'm not going to change my opinion and nothing you say will alter it so there is no point in prolonging this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Croesy Blue
So you’ve seen with your own observations people with undue influence who don’t want pubs to ever open again?
He had to answer to you twice as you didn't accept his first answer :hehe:Quote:
Originally Posted by xsnaggle
Look, I'm not having a go - but if these are the standards that you are setting for your discussions, at least have the decency to stick to them yourself.
I often ask people their sources because it may be a topic that interests me, but I don't question every thing that every person says. i never intentionally apply double standards, I do'tn'trawl the web to try to prove somebody wrong just because I disagree with them as some clearly do and, as I said, I never state anything as 'fact' unless it is something that I have done.Quote:
Originally Posted by Heisenberg
i say things on here as one might say them to one's mate in the pub (I use the term 'one' as I have been pulled up today for using the word 'you' by someone who chose not to understand that i was speaking generally) Its is not a court of law it just a chat sitr, I'm sick of saying that. In fact I'm sick of this stupid argument. If you do not believe that there are people who have an undue influence that's fine. So for example Cummins doesn't have an undue influence on Boris. I'm glad we sorted something out.
Why do you people always change things to suit your reply and to suit your agenda.Quote:
Originally Posted by xsnaggle
No one has said there are not people with undue influence (like Cummings). They have just queried your wild claim that the South Wales chapters of Soda and the Temperance Society have undue influence with policymakers who control pub licensing and opening hours.
It is just highlighting the difference between fact and fiction - or reality and made up nonsense.
I have no idea what SODA is not being a political animal as you are, and I never mentioned the temperance society, but some of these people would probably be members of it if it still existed. I did not say they have undue influence with the people who control pub licencing and opening hours either. you ar changing things to suit your agenda.Quote:
Originally Posted by jon1959
I said there are certain kinds of people who dislike pubs and drinking and they would be happier the longer that pubs are closed and if it means a lot will never reopen then they will be happy. They have no thought for the people who's livelihoods rely on them. And these people do have the ear of the government and do exert a level of influence that the average man in the street never could. That is my belief, if it isn't your well that for you. I don't really care.
Why do people persist with this? i'm not going to change my belie and you're not going to change yours. Live with it, I can!
:hehe:Quote:
Originally Posted by Heisenberg
Quote:
Originally Posted by Croesy Blue
He was asked about this weeks ago, and couldn't back it up with anything other than anecdotal evidence.
He dropped it, but seems like he has put it back up for debate. I can only assume that is because he has some much stronger evidence this time.
You said "but they do have a disproportionate influence on people who make decisions." - that may be your opinion, but you say it as if it is factual. Who are these people with influence, where are they? W hy has it taken them centuries to get pubs to close down at a national level. What changed to cause them to finally get all the pubs closed in the country, and to keep them closed?Quote:
Originally Posted by xsnaggle
".. the Welsh Government have said they MAY allow some resumption of the tourism before the END of summer..". The difference between UK/England and BJ and Drakeford is BJ has one eye limiting the catastrophic damage to jobs, economy etc., whereas Drakeford isn't bothered - just showing how different he can be. Of course he's "one of us ", so exempt from criticism here in Wales,Quote:
Originally Posted by xsnaggle
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heisenberg
He has spoken about them in a previous thread - maybe even this one. He didn't say who these people were then, he won't say who they are now, and he will probably never say it.
I think he grew up in a religious, chapel going setting. I'm not knocking that for a minute. However, not many people grow up in those settings these days (I am assuming xsnaggle is in his 70s), and I would be amazed if the chapel goers had any influence at any level (national, local, or even street) at any stage of the last 100 years. That is, of course, assuming he is talking about some sort of temperance society.
I know the Temperance Societies had some success in valleys towns, making areas of towns pub free at a time when there was literally a pub on every street corner. Especially in hard working areas like Ebbw Vale, Tredegar, Merthyr and so on - but a lot of that success stems from the 19th Century.
I wonder if he is talking about these groups, or someone else?
Do you really think Drakeford is basing all his decisions on a "let's be different from England" approach? Welsh schools are reopening to pupils across all school years from June 29th, and the school term has been extended by one week. I suspect that is based on the scientific evidence rather than a "let's beat England" mindset. Similarly, I suspect Drakeford is also basing the tourism roadmap on the scientific evidence being presented to him.Quote:
Originally Posted by A Quiet Monkfish
But his minister said the 5 mile rule. would still apply and that people would only be allowed in places where they have their own bathroom and kitchen because there would be not restaurants or what have you available. But even if someone in Cardiff wants to go to England to (for example go to the beach) he/she will break the 5 mile rule before getting anywhere near England and someone coming from England the other way will have a similar problem. Are they going to allow an Englishman to drive to a cottage in Pembroke for his holiday but tell me I can't drive 8 miles to Barry island? It's nonsense.Quote:
Originally Posted by A Quiet Monkfish