The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

I don’t think it does - I thought the Academy was for the players who are too young to have pro contracts (ie under 18s). Even if I’m wrong though, it’s still mad that someone who is nineteen and hasn’t been with us for a year gets the Academy Player of the Year award - it’s like when Callum Paterson won Young Player of the Year.

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https://www.cardiffcityfc.co.uk/club-staff/academy

u21 manager listed as Academy staff.

Benjamin has played well for the u21s and been on the first team bench. It would be churlish not to recognise his good play this season due to not having been with the club long enough.

It may have been the case that the u23s weren't considered an academy side, weren't they down as "development"? That doesn't seem to be the case with the u21s

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Originally Posted by logic

https://www.cardiffcityfc.co.uk/club-staff/academy

u21 manager listed as Academy staff.

Benjamin has played well for the u21s and been on the first team bench. It would be churlish not to recognise his good play this season due to not having been with the club long enough.

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I despair, if the under 21s are still considered Academy players that goes some way to explaining why we’re so crap at developing young full time professional players into first teamers. Cosseting them in Academys until twenty one only gives staff more of an excuse to say they’re not ready yet.

It’s not that long ago that a City team without a home grown youngster in it was considered unusual - having seventeen year olds in the first team was fairly commonplace and you’d occasionally see a sixteen year old. Now we’re in a position where our manager considers twenty one year olds not ready yet because we’re in a relegation scrap - if I were. a member of the Academy’s staff I’d being seeing the fact that someone like Benjamin won the award for Academy Player of the Year as an admission of failure.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

I despair, if the under 21s are still considered Academy players that goes some way to explaining why we’re so crap at developing young full time professional players into first teamers. Cosseting them in Academys until twenty one only gives staff more of an excuse to say they’re not ready yet.

It’s not that long ago that a City team without a home grown youngster in it was considered unusual - having seventeen year olds in the first team was fairly commonplace and you’d occasionally see a sixteen year old. Now we’re in a position where our manager considers twenty one year olds not ready yet because we’re in a relegation scrap - if I were. a member of the Academy’s staff I’d being seeing the fact that someone like Benjamin won the award for Academy Player of the Year as an admission of failure.

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So what were u23s then? No longer Academy kids, but not really senior players so an underclass?

What about u21s playing for he u23s? Would an 18 year old be an academy player or not? Are Crole and Ashford not really Academy players either?

I would be interesting to see analysis if possible because I can't recall seeing 17 yr olds and occasionally 16 yr olds in City sides. Maybe, just maybe at lower levels or in meaningless cup games. That isn't even something particular to us, I cant recall ay Championship side that would be the same. The odd player here and there, maybe.

Again, I refer to to criticism of Benjamin winning the award as being churlish. Like it or not, he's part of the Academy setup and if he breaks into the first team, I'll be cheering him on, not worrying he hasn't been at the club for a decade.

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Originally Posted by logic

So what were u23s then? No longer Academy kids, but not really senior players so an underclass?

What about u21s playing for he u23s? Would an 18 year old be an academy player or not? Are Crole and Ashford not really Academy players either?

I would be interesting to see analysis if possible because I can't recall seeing 17 yr olds and occasionally 16 yr olds in City sides. Maybe, just maybe at lower levels or in meaningless cup games. That isn't even something particular to us, I cant recall ay Championship side that would be the same. The odd player here and there, maybe.

Again, I refer to to criticism of Benjamin winning the award as being churlish. Like it or not, he's part of the Academy setup and if he breaks into the first team, I'll be cheering him on, not worrying he hasn't been at the club for a decade.

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They were categorised as "development" weren't they? A sort of weird halfway house between the academy and the first team

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Originally Posted by City123

They were categorised as "development" weren't they? A sort of weird halfway house between the academy and the first team

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We routinely played u18 eligible kids in u23 games.

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Originally Posted by logic

We routinely played u18 eligible kids in u23 games.

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that filters all the way down the to under 9's playing in a higher age group , under 14's playing in the under 16's etc

reading the last few threads still unsure what the issue is

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Originally Posted by logic

We routinely played u18 eligible kids in u23 games.

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We did occasionally, but weren't the games and regular squad considered a separate thing to the "academy" which was the younger age groups, hence "DVP & academy"? It was restructured back into u21s this season

Not that that has anything to do with the awards anyway, didn't Colwill win it last season? He'd already played about 10 senior games going into that season and was a Wales international!

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Originally Posted by MOZZER2

that filters all the way down the to under 9's playing in a higher age group , under 14's playing in the under 16's etc

reading the last few threads still unsure what the issue is

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The Benjamin apparently isn't "Academy enough" to have received an award.

The academy twitter account's bio says it's U9-U21

the rules from the FA regarding youth development rules

https://resources.premierleague.com/...1-YD-Rules.pdf

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Originally Posted by logic

So what were u23s then? No longer Academy kids, but not really senior players so an underclass?

What about u21s playing for he u23s? Would an 18 year old be an academy player or not? Are Crole and Ashford not really Academy players either?

I would be interesting to see analysis if possible because I can't recall seeing 17 yr olds and occasionally 16 yr olds in City sides. Maybe, just maybe at lower levels or in meaningless cup games. That isn't even something particular to us, I cant recall ay Championship side that would be the same. The odd player here and there, maybe.

Again, I refer to to criticism of Benjamin winning the award as being churlish. Like it or not, he's part of the Academy setup and if he breaks into the first team, I'll be cheering him on, not worrying he hasn't been at the club for a decade.

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Aaron Ramsey and John Toshack played for us as sixteen year olds with The latter becoming a regular selection at that age and the former at seventeen. Chris Gunter had a run of games in the first team as a seventeen year old, as did Adam Matthews and Darcy Blake made his debut at seventeen I believe. Going back further, Lindon Jones, Peter Sayer, and David Giles all debuted at seventeen, Simon Haworth did I think, Earnie did and James Collins may have been seventeen as well.

Think a lot of the praise Benjamin gets is for him being seen as a leader when you often hear talk about how few of those there are in the modern game. I’m not against him in any way, I just don’t think him getting the award reflects well on the Academy especially when you consider that his leadership qualities are hardly likely to have appeared in the past year while he’s been with us.

I always think of Theo Wharton (another who played in the first team at seventeen I think) and Tommy O’Sullivan as explanations as to why under 23 football was wrong - they were still playing age group football every week at twenty two and twenty three and the idea that they could still have been regarded as Academy players at that age is laughable - I think it’s laughable as well that twenty one year old Rubin Colwill could still be considered as a Academy player at City when he’s been to a Euros and A World Cup with his country.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

Aaron Ramsey and John Toshack played for us as sixteen year olds with The latter becoming a regular selection at that age and the former at seventeen. Chris Gunter had a run of games in the first team as a seventeen year old, as did Adam Matthews and Darcy Blake made his debut at seventeen I believe. Going back further, Lindon Jones, Peter Sayer, and David Giles all debuted at seventeen, Simon Haworth did I think, Earnie did and James Collins may have been seventeen as well.

Think a lot of the praise Benjamin gets is for him being seen as a leader when you often hear talk about how few of those there are in the modern game. I’m not against him in any way, I just don’t think him getting the award reflects well on the Academy especially when you consider that his leadership qualities are hardly likely to have appeared in the past year while he’s been with us.

I always think of Theo Wharton (another who played in the first team at seventeen I think) and Tommy O’Sullivan as explanations as to why under 23 football was wrong - they were still playing age group football every week at twenty two and twenty three and the idea that they could still have been regarded as Academy players at that age is laughable - I think it’s laughable as well that twenty one year old Rubin Colwill could still be considered as a Academy player at City when he’s been to a Euros and A World Cup with his country.

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Ramsey was when? Toshack was when? What level were we in when the people youve named made their debuts?

Talented players will make the breakthrough, but we've seen endless youngsters touted here that have gone on do very little. If you'd argued we've had managers unwilling to back youngsters, I'd tend to agree.

Theo Wharton, like Tom James, were named by Mackay as having "big futures ahead of them". O'Sullivan et al. File firmly in the "Where are they now?" category, can hardly claim the club have missed out.

Like it or not, Benjamin is an Academy player. You ay consider it laughable, c'est la vie.

What's more important is that the club need to have a manager willing to give youngsters runs. I don't care if they came fom another Academy or not, but in McGuinness, Denham, Rubin Colwill, Davies, Etete we've a useful young first team crop. If at least one from Benjamin, King, Ashford Leahy, Crole pan out, then great.

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Originally Posted by logic

Ramsey was when? Toshack was when? What level were we in when the people youve named made their debuts?

Talented players will make the breakthrough, but we've seen endless youngsters touted here that have gone on do very little. If you'd argued we've had managers unwilling to back youngsters, I'd tend to agree.

Theo Wharton, like Tom James, were named by Mackay as having "big futures ahead of them". O'Sullivan et al. File firmly in the "Where are they now?" category, can hardly claim the club have missed out.

Like it or not, Benjamin is an Academy player. You ay consider it laughable, c'est la vie.

What's more important is that the club need to have a manager willing to give youngsters runs. I don't care if they came fom another Academy or not, but in McGuinness, Denham, Rubin Colwill, Davies, Etete we've a useful young first team crop. If at least one from Benjamin, King, Ashford Leahy, Crole pan out, then great.

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Apart from Earnie, Haworth and Collins, we were in Division 2/Championship when the players I named first played for us.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

Apart from Earnie, Haworth and Collins, we were in Division 2/Championship when the players I named first played for us.

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In a different era.

Look, talented players will make it if there's a manager willing to play them. We know Warnock didn't. We know McCarthy did, we know Morison and Hudson weren't and we also know Lamouchi generally hasn't.

We've a good core of youngsters that we can build around. Colwill behind Davies and Etete could be very interesting. We've some youngsters below the fist team who might make it. Without a manager willing to do so...

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Originally Posted by logic

https://www.cardiffcityfc.co.uk/club-staff/academy

u21 manager listed as Academy staff.

Benjamin has played well for the u21s and been on the first team bench. It would be churlish not to recognise his good play this season due to not having been with the club long enough.

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I don't want to be pedantic, but Benjamin hasn't been on the 1st team bench. It was the cup game when it was assumed that it was him, but it was actually the U16 keeper with the same surname; who had been selected just to increase the compensation it was assumed that Man City would have to play.

Benjamin snr has had a good season, he's clearly a good defender and leader. But his chances of being a Championship Centre Back, given his height, are very limited. His distribution isn't the best either. Macnamara and Denham are noticeably better in this regard

I'm not sure I see sense in the signings of Benjamin, Antwi, Conte, Kristensen, Leahy, Peake etc. Let's face it none of them are going to be 1st team players. I'm not sure of the cost, but I can't help think that there is something slightly dodgy to do with Agents going on.

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Originally Posted by logic

In a different era.

Look, talented players will make it if there's a manager willing to play them. We know Warnock didn't. We know McCarthy did, we know Morison and Hudson weren't and we also know Lamouchi generally hasn't.

We've a good core of youngsters that we can build around. Colwill behind Davies and Etete could be very interesting. We've some youngsters below the fist team who might make it. Without a manager willing to do so...

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In fairness to Lamouchi, at Forest he made Worrall into a 1st team ever present, Yates and Mighten were match day squad regulars and he gave Johnson his 1st team debut. It will be interesting to see if he does the same with Davies, Colwill, King and Denham from the start of the season when there isn't the same level of pressure/desperation.

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Originally Posted by AdrianAlston

I'm not sure I see sense in the signings of Benjamin, Antwi, Conte, Kristensen, Leahy, Peake etc. Let's face it none of them are going to be 1st team players. I'm not sure of the cost, but I can't help think that there is something slightly dodgy to do with Agents going on.

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Darren Purse said signing Conte and Antwi, for instance, was supposed to bring some "experience" to the team, if that makes any sense. A little while ago a couple of teams (I think one of them was Brighton) actually brought in some proper experience - ie. a 30 something old pro winding down his career - to direct the younger players while playing for their U23s. Not sure if it caught on or was seen as beneficial in the end. It should be noted that Denham was signed after his release from Man U so it's not a complete waste of time as a policy but there's often a feeling of making up the numbers with some of these players.

https://twitter.com/fabrizioromano/s...05477118590979

This could be the reason that Man City's interest in Lewys Benjamin has cooled

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Originally Posted by Bluebirdman Of Alcathays

Darren Purse said signing Conte and Antwi, for instance, was supposed to bring some "experience" to the team, if that makes any sense. A little while ago a couple of teams (I think one of them was Brighton) actually brought in some proper experience - ie. a 30 something old pro winding down his career - to direct the younger players while playing for their U23s. Not sure if it caught on or was seen as beneficial in the end. It should be noted that Denham was signed after his release from Man U so it's not a complete waste of time as a policy but there's often a feeling of making up the numbers with some of these players.

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Totally agree. We might have well played Sang and Whyte in the U21's all season. That would have provided the experience required.

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Originally Posted by AdrianAlston

https://twitter.com/fabrizioromano/s...05477118590979

This could be the reason that Man City's interest in Lewys Benjamin has cooled

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Lewys Benjamin failed his medical didn't he?

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Originally Posted by City123

Lewys Benjamin failed his medical didn't he?

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That would explain whilst he has had to drop out of a few Wales U17's squads. I'm glad he is staying (if he is), whatever the reason. We haven't had an U18 goalkeeper of his height since Dave Richards

https://www.faw.cymru/en/news/cymru-...onship-finals/

7 City players in the Wales U17 squad, as well as 2 who have recently been poached by Premier League Clubs. Trey George the unlucky one to miss out.

Interesting (Welsh) interview here with Iwan Morgan, Wales u17s and Swansea youth player. Cardiff boy and says he was in our academy, that would have been one hell of a crop of him, Biancheri, Crew etc. Interesting that he left, though it doesn't sound like he intends on staying around at Swansea for too long...

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="cy" dir="ltr">“We’re not here to take part. We’re here to take over, baby!” 🎙️<br><br>IWAN MORGAN | Cyfweliad gyda’r ymosodwr ifanc cyn i <a href="https://twitter.com/Cymru?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@Cymru</a> dan 17 deithio i chwarae ym Mhencampwriaeth Euro D17 am y tro cyntaf erioed. <a href="https://twitter.com/SwansOfficial?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@SwansOfficial</a> | <a href="https://twitter.com/swans_academy?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@swans_academy</a> 🦢 <a href="https://t.co/dV8YmJ72C1">pic.twitter.com/dV8YmJ72C1</a></p>&mdash; Sgorio ⚽️ (@sgorio) <a href="https://twitter.com/sgorio/status/1654541991516971010?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 5, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

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Originally Posted by City123

Interesting (Welsh) interview here with Iwan Morgan, Wales u17s and Swansea youth player. Cardiff boy and says he was in our academy, that would have been one hell of a crop of him, Biancheri, Crew etc. Interesting that he left, though it doesn't sound like he intends on staying around at Swansea for too long...

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="cy" dir="ltr">“We’re not here to take part. We’re here to take over, baby!” 🎙️<br><br>IWAN MORGAN | Cyfweliad gyda’r ymosodwr ifanc cyn i <a href="https://twitter.com/Cymru?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@Cymru</a> dan 17 deithio i chwarae ym Mhencampwriaeth Euro D17 am y tro cyntaf erioed. <a href="https://twitter.com/SwansOfficial?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@SwansOfficial</a> | <a href="https://twitter.com/swans_academy?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@swans_academy</a> 🦢 <a href="https://t.co/dV8YmJ72C1">pic.twitter.com/dV8YmJ72C1</a></p>&mdash; Sgorio ⚽️ (@sgorio) <a href="https://twitter.com/sgorio/status/1654541991516971010?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 5, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

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I believe that he is different to Biancheri and Crew in that we released him (stand to be corrected on this). Sounds a proper Kaardiff boy. His Welsh is good, I presume he's a Glantaf boy who's parents were West or North Walians.

He looked handy for Wales U17's, a real bull of a Centre Forward. Definitely one we've missed out on like Poole, Cabango and Lockyear. But they all develop at different ages.

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Originally Posted by City123

Lewys Benjamin failed his medical didn't he?

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He did.

"Oh they can't be after him as they are after another keeper" is a dumb position to make, Prem Academies stockpile ffs.

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Originally Posted by AdrianAlston

I believe that he is different to Biancheri and Crew in that we released him (stand to be corrected on this). Sounds a proper Kaardiff boy. His Welsh is good, I presume he's a Glantaf boy who's parents were West or North Walians.

He looked handy for Wales U17's, a real bull of a Centre Forward. Definitely one we've missed out on like Poole, Cabango and Lockyear. But they all develop at different ages.

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Bro Edern I believe, the new(ish) one in Penylan

His size was noticeable when I watched the u17s. He has something ridiculous like 8 goals in 5 games for them, but that doesn't necesarily mean he'll go on to great things of course, Simon Church was prolific at youth international level for instance

I did think that Biancheri & Crew looked the best of the bunch whenever I've seen the u17s, along with the Southampton player Andrews

Trey George's goals against Burnley. The second one was a cracker. Maybe he should be in the first team to take penalties too! https://twitter.com/CF11Academy/stat...18298343698434

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Originally Posted by Undercoverinwurzelland

Trey George's goals against Burnley. The second one was a cracker. Maybe he should be in the first team to take penalties too! https://twitter.com/CF11Academy/stat...18298343698434

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Maybe we should start lobbying for American Football type special teams to be introduced for dead ball situations and penalties?

By George, what a great goal by George.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

Maybe we should start lobbying for American Football type special teams to be introduced for dead ball situations and penalties?

By George, what a great goal by George.

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I think we should!

One last game, the club website is saying that the under 21s are at home to Crewe this lunchtime - no confirmation of this on any other social media yet, but I'm pretty sure it will be streamed if the match is played today. Hopefully, there'll be confirmation of this later this morning.

Just to confirm that the game with Crewe is today, kick off 1 o clock at Leckwith and it is being streamed.

Quite a few members of the Wales under 17 squad starting for the under 21s today.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

Quite a few members of the Wales under 17 squad starting for the under 21s today.

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A fully Welsh starting XI I believe?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FvrrQN9W...pg&name=medium

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

Quite a few members of the Wales under 17 squad starting for the under 21s today.

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Colwill, Ashford, Crole and the rest from the u18s?

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Originally Posted by Undercoverinwurzelland

Colwill, Ashford, Crole and the rest from the u18s?

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It’s hard to be sure, but I’d say about half of that squad have not played for the under 21s before and ithink you’re probably right about them all being Welsh.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTF6...=CardiffCityFC

Pritchard puts City in front from twenty five yards inside the first minute.

1-1.