the rise of ukip

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Originally Posted by adz-a32

I apologise if I alienated ppl. The point I was making was that ppl were being patronising and not listening when tell me about MY OWN community

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So what you're saying is you're talking about your own muslim community? Because that is what your comment implies.
If you have your own 'community' within the British community does that not suggest that you, or your community at least, have not integrated and have no intention of doing so?

Try going to wholly muslin countries like SA or Afghanistan and behaving like a Roman Catholic, specially if you are a woman who wants to drive a car or work after her husband has been killed. See how far you get.
There was an article in the papers only days ago stating that a female politician in SA is being attacked for suggesting that SA women should work. The popular opinion is that they should not, that is what immigrant workers (Mainly Pakistani and Indian) women are for.
Don't expect to be sending any post cards saying "Wish you were here".
for over 100 years different people from different cultures have come to Caridff on th ships and settled here. They set up their own communities but the struggled and succeeded in integrating that with the existing culture of the nation. The Chinese gave us their food, the Indians (Now Indian Pakistani and Bangladeshi) gave us their food and their holidays, the Afro-Carribeans gave us their music and their love of idleness (That to me is a compliment).
But when you have people who want everything this wonderful country has to offer but have no desire or will to accept and embrace my culture, then frankly they are not welcome - - - whatever colour race or creed they might be.

Did I make my point?

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Originally Posted by xsnaggle

So what you're saying is you're talking about your own muslim community? Because that is what your comment implies.
If you have your own 'community' within the British community does that not suggest that you, or your community at least, have not integrated and have no intention of doing so?

Try going to wholly muslin countries like SA or Afghanistan and behaving like a Roman Catholic, specially if you are a woman who wants to drive a car or work after her husband has been killed. See how far you get.
There was an article in the papers only days ago stating that a female politician in SA is being attacked for suggesting that SA women should work. The popular opinion is that they should not, that is what immigrant workers (Mainly Pakistani and Indian) women are for.
Don't expect to be sending any post cards saying "Wish you were here".
for over 100 years different people from different cultures have come to Caridff on th ships and settled here. They set up their own communities but the struggled and succeeded in integrating that with the existing culture of the nation. The Chinese gave us their food, the Indians (Now Indian Pakistani and Bangladeshi) gave us their food and their holidays, the Afro-Carribeans gave us their music and their love of idleness (That to me is a compliment).
But when you have people who want everything this wonderful country has to offer but have no desire or will to accept and embrace my culture, then frankly they are not welcome - - - whatever colour race or creed they might be.

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Loads of Muslims (myself included) are part of the British community. I am proud to be British. Most of us accept British culture, including me

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Originally Posted by adz-a32

Loads of Muslims (myself included) are part of the British community. I am proud to be British. Most of us accept British culture, including me

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your answer proves the point exactly!

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Originally Posted by xsnaggle

your answer proves the point exactly!

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How? Its the vast majority like close to 100%

People twisting my words to suit their point... how low can you go?

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Originally Posted by adz-a32

People twisting my words to suit their point... how low can you go?

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Do you mean like "Whitesplaining"?

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Originally Posted by xsnaggle

Do you mean like "Whitesplaining"?

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Stfu. Like "most" and "my own", get a ****ing life

Fella, I've had a better life than you are ever likely to have, trust me.

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Originally Posted by xsnaggle

Fella, I've had a better life than you are ever likely to have, trust me.

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:hehe: You dont even know me and your saying shit like this

10 - pager nqat. :hehe:

Well tell us what parts of Muslim 'Laws' do you believe in and intend to uphold, and what you would do about those who think that the laws you do not agree with must be upheld even in a country that does not have that religious base?
Don't castigate me, just answer the question.
My problem is you see, that the large majority of gentle peace loving muslims in the British society do nothing to condemn or incriminate the ones who are determined to undermine our christian values.
They talk a lot about these people not being the voice of the majority but they do nothing to bring that minority to the attention of the law or the wider community.
The good and gentle muslims know who the bad ones are so why don't they tell us?

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Originally Posted by xsnaggle

Well tell us what parts of Muslim 'Laws' do you believe in and intend to uphold, and what you would do about those who think that the laws you do not agree with must be upheld even in a country that does not have that religious base?
Don't castigate me, just answer the question.
My problem is you see, that the large majority of gentle peace loving muslims in the British society do nothing to condemn or incriminate the ones who are determined to undermine our christian values.
They talk a lot about these people not being the voice of the majority but they do nothing to bring that minority to the attention of the law or the wider community.
The good and gentle muslims know who the bad ones are so why don't they tell us?

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Careful Snags, you are drifting dangerously into "whitespaining" here.

God/Allah forefend. I'd hate to be accused of that.
Next thing I know I'd be being accused of being racist. and that would seriously piss me off!

Careful lads I haven't seen J R Hartley since he Adz pulled the race card out on him

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Originally Posted by xsnaggle

Well tell us what parts of Muslim 'Laws' do you believe in and intend to uphold, and what you would do about those who think that the laws you do not agree with must be upheld even in a country that does not have that religious base?
Don't castigate me, just answer the question.
My problem is you see, that the large majority of gentle peace loving muslims in the British society do nothing to condemn or incriminate the ones who are determined to undermine our christian values.
They talk a lot about these people not being the voice of the majority but they do nothing to bring that minority to the attention of the law or the wider community.
The good and gentle muslims know who the bad ones are so why don't they tell us?

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Personally, I believe in the Qur'an and I believe that Britain should be a secular country, and there are British Islamic groups advocating a secular society. The MCB keep on saying that the extremists dont rep us. We even did anti-Daesh protests and many imams issued fatwas against Daesh.

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Originally Posted by CCFC CASUAL

Careful lads I haven't seen J R Hartley since he Adz pulled the race card out on him

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Race card? :hehe: How tf was he not racist?

You lot could learn from Blue Matt - he listens to others and take these opinions into account

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Originally Posted by xsnaggle

Well tell us what parts of Muslim 'Laws' do you believe in and intend to uphold, and what you would do about those who think that the laws you do not agree with must be upheld even in a country that does not have that religious base?
Don't castigate me, just answer the question.
My problem is you see, that the large majority of gentle peace loving muslims in the British society do nothing to condemn or incriminate the ones who are determined to undermine our christian values.
They talk a lot about these people not being the voice of the majority but they do nothing to bring that minority to the attention of the law or the wider community.
The good and gentle muslims know who the bad ones are so why don't they tell us?

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Out of interest do you always condemn crimes committed by white Christian individuals (or whatever group you attach yourself to)?

How should muslims "condemn and incriminate" other muslims exactly? How do you know if they are doing so or not?

What evidence do you have of this lack of condemning?

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Originally Posted by adz-a32

Race card? :hehe: How tf was he not racist?

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he was straight talking and had a venomous tongue but never racist.

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Originally Posted by xsnaggle

Well tell us what parts of Muslim 'Laws' do you believe in and intend to uphold, and what you would do about those who think that the laws you do not agree with must be upheld even in a country that does not have that religious base?
Don't castigate me, just answer the question.
My problem is you see, that the large majority of gentle peace loving muslims in the British society do nothing to condemn or incriminate the ones who are determined to undermine our christian values.
They talk a lot about these people not being the voice of the majority but they do nothing to bring that minority to the attention of the law or the wider community.
The good and gentle muslims know who the bad ones are so why don't they tell us?

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In my opinion the beauty of Britain is that the majority of people are educated and progressive enough to realise that values and morals are something that someone decides upon, each individual has full control over their own. Well at least I thought that was the case anyway. Don't turn this into some kind of Holy war, it is simple, society doesn't need ***** who do horrible things - their religion doesn't matter to me..

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Originally Posted by CCFC CASUAL

he was straight talking and had a venomous tongue but never racist.

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Using words like "Muzzle" and "terrorist sympathiser"... and thats not racist? Wtf?

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Originally Posted by adz-a32

You lot could learn from Blue Matt - he listens to others and take these opinions into account

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Blue Matt is a snob who lives in utopia

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Originally Posted by Eric Cartman

In my opinion the beauty of Britain is that the majority of people are educated and progressive enough to realise that values and morals are something that someone decides upon, each individual has full control over their own. Well at least I thought that was the case anyway. Don't turn this into some kind of Holy war, it is simple, society doesn't need ***** who do horrible things - their religion doesn't matter to me..

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I really appreciate the many ppl in society who are open minded, we both learn from each other :thumbup:

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Originally Posted by CCFC CASUAL

Blue Matt is a snob who lives in utopia

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He is actually a really nice guy

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Originally Posted by adz-a32

Personally, I believe in the Qur'an and I believe that Britain should be a secular country, and there are British Islamic groups advocating a secular society. The MCB keep on saying that the extremists dont rep us. We even did anti-Daesh protests and many imams issued fatwas against Daesh.

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I was led to believe that a fatwa was something that gave people the right to kill others and still enter paradise. Is that wrong?
Or are you saying if they are issued against some people it's OK but if they are issued against others it is not?
And who decides which is right an which is wrong?
If I have the wrong meaning of the word I am welcome to correction. I know a fatwa is a declaration or order from an Imam, but to do what exactly?

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Originally Posted by xsnaggle

I was led to believe that a fatwa was something that gave people the right to kill others and still enter paradise. Is that wrong?
Or are you saying if they are issued against some people it's OK but if they are issued against others it is not?
And who decides which is right an which is wrong?
If I have the wrong meaning of the word I am welcome to correction. I know a fatwa is a declaration or order from an Imam, but to do what exactly?

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It means religious opinion. So in this case, they are saying Daesh are not Muslim

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Originally Posted by adz-a32

Personally, I believe in the Qur'an and I believe that Britain should be a secular country, and there are British Islamic groups advocating a secular society. The MCB keep on saying that the extremists dont rep us. We even did anti-Daesh protests and many imams issued fatwas against Daesh.

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What the **** has a cricket ground got to do with it? :getscoat:

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Originally Posted by TruBlue

What the **** has a cricket ground got to do with it? :getscoat:

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:hehe:

If anyone is confused for real, I was referring to the Muslim Council of Britain

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Originally Posted by Claude Blue

Out of interest do you always condemn crimes committed by white Christian individuals (or whatever group you attach yourself to)?

How should muslims "condemn and incriminate" other muslims exactly? How do you know if they are doing so or not?

What evidence do you have of this lack of condemning?

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Yes, I condemn anyone who does such things.
Evidence of lack of condemning? you want some examples?
The north London Mosque in Seven sisters had a Mullah that preached hatred of and death to all "Non-believers" including all British people for a number of years and as a result several young men were "Radicalised". Now this man was preaching to thousands every month. Why did they not vote with their feet and go to a different mosque, and leave his empty so he could preach to the walls? The man was eventually turned out after he had be exposed and the local people objected but then he preached in the street and still thousands turned up to hear him.
In about 2011 there were gangs of male muslim youths roaming the street with half a mile of the East London mosque in Whitechapel attacking young european non-muslim women for being unveiled near the mosque during prayer time.
When the police questioned the elders/ parents in the mosque they all said they didn't know who these boys were, that they were not from 'our' family/community but of course they were.
Do you honestly think no-one knew?
But nothing was said until a woman complained so much that the local PC police had to act.
Quite honestly this is enough. we can banter all day but it won't solve the problem.

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Originally Posted by Claude Blue

Out of interest do you always condemn crimes committed by white Christian individuals (or whatever group you attach yourself to)?

How should muslims "condemn and incriminate" other muslims exactly? How do you know if they are doing so or not?

What evidence do you have of this lack of condemning?

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In the case of Rotherham where an almost exclusively Pakistani grooming gang were allowed to roam free because South Yorks Police did not want to take up the allegations raised by the petrified victims due to "racial harmony". To me that is an incredibly bad situation to have in 21st century Britain.

In my mind these are issues that need to be tackled by the Muslim community, same goes for FGM. A nonce is a nonce, be it Pakistani or from the Vale but these two issues are problems that blight the Pakistani community.

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Originally Posted by xsnaggle

Yes, I condemn anyone who does such things.
Evidence of lack of condemning? you want some examples?
The north London Mosque in Seven sisters had a Mullah that preached hatred of and death to all "Non-believers" including all British people for a number of years and as a result several young men were "Radicalised". Now this man was preaching to thousands every month. Why did they not vote with their feet and go to a different mosque, and leave his empty so he could preach to the walls? The man was eventually turned out after he had be exposed and the local people objected but then he preached in the street and still thousands turned up to hear him.
In about 2011 there were gangs of male muslim youths roaming the street with half a mile of the East London mosque in Whitechapel attacking young european non-muslim women for being unveiled near the mosque during prayer time.
When the police questioned the elders/ parents in the mosque they all said they didn't know who these boys were, that they were not from 'our' family/community but of course they were.
Do you honestly think no-one knew?
But nothing was said until a woman complained so much that the local PC police had to act.
Quite honestly this is enough. we can banter all day but it won't solve the problem.

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So how do you condemn all these actions of your specific race group?

I've not heard or read you doing so. Outside of your family and friends how would anyone else know about this condemnation?

You're under the impression that muslims do not condemn the actions of a minority of people who have the same faith. I'm simply asking how do you know that? What should all of them do to satisfy this craving for condemnation that you appear to have?

The "examples" you have given above actually show that some did condemn and act against the individuals concerned.

You're correct that we could all banter on here all day and it would resolve nothing but I'm unclear as to what you think the answer is.

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Originally Posted by ninianclark

Some bloke scribbles into a book about 1500 years ago and you believe it - wow
Years ago - if you heard voices in your head you were a prophet
Today - if you hear voices in your head - you get medication for mental problems

pps - seeing as we are on the subject - Mohammed's wife ‘Ā’ishah bint Abī Bakr - the one he married when she was 6 and according to your book he consummated that marriage when she was 9 - if that happened today - how would you feel about it ?

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That was a hadith, there are some mistranslations, once of which you have mentioned

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Originally Posted by ninianclark

Some bloke scribbles into a book about 1500 years ago and you believe it - wow
Years ago - if you heard voices in your head you were a prophet
Today - if you hear voices in your head - you get medication for mental problems

pps - seeing as we are on the subject - Mohammed's wife ‘Ā’ishah bint Abī Bakr - the one he married when she was 6 and according to your book he consummated that marriage when she was 9 - if that happened today - how would you feel about it ?

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Don't forget to criticise Xsnaggle for his belief in Christian values too. Christian values such as the oppression of women and killing basically anyone for any reason.

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Originally Posted by Bluebird since 1948

In the case of Rotherham where an almost exclusively Pakistani grooming gang were allowed to roam free because South Yorks Police did not want to take up the allegations raised by the petrified victims due to "racial harmony". To me that is an incredibly bad situation to have in 21st century Britain.

In my mind these are issues that need to be tackled by the Muslim community, same goes for FGM. A nonce is a nonce, be it Pakistani or from the Vale but these two issues are problems that blight the Pakistani community.

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I agree that these are issues that need to be tackled.

The Rotherham issue is certainly one for their muslim community to deal with as well as the quite useless SYP. But do not kid yourself that this is solely a Pakistani/muslim issue, grooming is an issue throughout the country and in all sections of society.

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Originally Posted by Claude Blue

So how do you condemn all these actions of your specific race group?

I've not heard or read you doing so. Outside of your family and friends how would anyone else know about this condemnation?

You're under the impression that muslims do not condemn the actions of a minority of people who have the same faith. I'm simply asking how do you know that? [/B]What should all of them do to satisfy this craving for condemnation that you appear to have?

The "examples" you have given above actually show that some did condemn and act against the individuals concerned.

You're correct that we could all banter on here all day and it would resolve nothing but I'm unclear as to what you think the answer is.

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Please do not seek to tell me what impressions I am under. Believe what you wish, but you cannot honestly accept that no one in these communities knew what was going on. In the case of Seven sisters, as I said, after he was thrown out of the Mosque thousands continued to turn up and listen to his speeches, and in the case of Whitechapel they were doing it in the street outside the Mosque as thousands of people were arriving and leaving the building. If no one agreed with what was happening how was this so? In the case of Whitechapel I saw it myself.

This country would be a far better place if some of this PC bullshit was put back in the box. Whilst a lot of it is good, another lot of it is used by people with Agendas to prevent anyone arguing the case against them.
It must stop, one way or another. Things always balance out eventually.
Now I am a lot further into the night than most of you folks, so I must say 'goodnight'. Sleep well

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Originally Posted by Eric Cartman

Don't forget to criticise Xsnaggle for his belief in Christian values too. Christian values such as the oppression of women and killing basically anyone for any reason.

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I think you will find that whilst christians used to uphold such values they have crawled into the 21 century but so-called islamic fundamentalists still uphold them. such as, as I mentioned earlier, the idea that a woman who's husband is dead cannot work to support her family. (Afghanistan taliban)
And once nore - - Goodnight. :getscoat:

He told a fib and got hit with a bolt of lightning.

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Originally Posted by xsnaggle

Please do not seek to tell me what impressions I am under. Believe what you wish, but you cannot honestly accept that no one in these communities knew what was going on. In the case of Seven sisters, as I said, after he was thrown out of the Mosque thousands continued to turn up and listen to his speeches, and in the case of Whitechapel they were doing it in the street outside the Mosque as thousands of people were arriving and leaving the building. If no one agreed with what was happening how was this so? In the case of Whitechapel I saw it myself.

This country would be a far better place if some of this PC bullshit was put back in the box. Whilst a lot of it is good, another lot of it is used by people with Agendas to prevent anyone arguing the case against them.
It must stop, one way or another. Things always balance out eventually.
Now I am a lot further into the night than most of you folks, so I must say 'goodnight'. Sleep well

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If no one condemned this individual then why was he kicked out of the mosque?

If no one condemned the incident in Whitechapel then how come this incident stopped?

If it's "pc bullshit" to try to get people like you to stop blaming every muslim for the actions of a minority then I plead guilty.

Chris has a 10 pager FFS!!!