Labour Voting Or Tory Voting ( no difference)

Yvette Cooper was a guest at George Osborne's wedding.

Keith Starmer, Rachel Reeves and Wes Streeting were all guests at Rupert Murdoch's summer party.

None of the above will stand with striking workers.

Just in case you were wondering whose side the Labour Party is on.

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Originally Posted by life on mars

Yvette Cooper was a guest at George Osborne's wedding.

Keith Starmer, Rachel Reeves and Wes Streeting were all guests at Rupert Murdoch's summer party.

None of the above will stand with striking workers.

Just in case you were wondering whose side the Labour Party is on.

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I agree with you completely. Under Starmer we will see business as usual. He's in the pockets of the mega wealthy.

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Originally Posted by Doucas

I agree with you completely. Under Starmer we will see business as usual. He's in the pockets of the mega wealthy.

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I don’t, because he seems to saying I’m not voting Labour because they are just as bad as the Conservatives. I’ve little time for Starmer, but I do not believe that - particularly when it comes to the Conservatives post 2019.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

I don’t, because he seems to saying I’m not voting Labour because they are just as bad as the Conservatives. I’ve little time for Starmer, but I do not believe that - particularly when it comes to the Conservatives post 2019.

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You have read it wrong.

Sheep in Wolves clothing politics.

There is no difference its just different shades of Tory which Blair triumphed with and was badged with at the time asca huge sucess .

Then we had Labour hate Blair .

Now we have the current Labout party consistently referring too his triumphs ??

It does leave the Blair haters in an awful quandary and risk of hypocrisy .

Yes you can hold your nose and vote sadly its still hypocrisy, one either has strong ideals or not , watered down ideals seem inappropriate especially after so.much anger aimed at Blarism or now Starmisim .

Wes Streetism lets use private sector to.help NHS ??

Rachel Reaves ironic less strikes under Blair government statement speaks volumes as to what is going on .

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Originally Posted by life on mars

You have read it wrong.

Sheep in Wolves clothing politics.

There is no difference its just different shades of Tory which Blair triumphed with and was badged with at the time asca huge sucess .

Then we had Labour hate Blair .

Now we have the current Labout party consistently referring too his triumphs ??

It does leave the Blair haters in an awful quandary and risk of hypocrisy .

Yes you can hold your nose and vote sadly its still hypocrisy, one either has strong ideals or not , watered down ideals seem inappropriate especially after so.much anger aimed at Blarism or now Starmisim .

Wes Streetism lets use private sector to.help NHS ??

Rachel Reaves ironic less strikes under Blair government statement speaks volumes as to what is going on .

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That’s looking at things completely from the point of view of the party you have no time for, I’m doing the same and that’s why I’ll be voting in the way that offers the best chance of getting the Conservatives (particularly this set of Conservatives) out.

Being a fairly simple person I look at things in a simple way.

The only party that has a chance of a majority these days will be fairly centrist.

A party leaning too much to the right will alienate half the population
a party leaning too much to the left alienates the other half

We might not like it, but we are where we are.

I'd rather a relatively centrist party be in power that has a slight lean to the left than the other way. So Starmer has it right and will have my vote.

Is LOM trying to hand out lessons on hypocrisy? :hehe:

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Originally Posted by superfeathers

Being a fairly simple person I look at things in a simple way.

The only party that has a chance of a majority these days will be fairly centrist.

A party leaning too much to the right will alienate half the population
a party leaning too much to the left alienates the other half

We might not like it, but we are where we are.

I'd rather a relatively centrist party be in power that has a slight lean to the left than the other way. So Starmer has it right and will have my vote.

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Issue for me is, anyone who says they're centrist in my experience turns out to be pretty right wing, e.g. JamesWales.

I don't think Starmer is centrist anymore, he is going right at a rapid pace, my guess is as the corporate donations come in.

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Originally Posted by Doucas

Issue for me is, anyone who says they're centrist in my experience turns out to be pretty right wing, e.g. JamesWales.

I don't think Starmer is centrist anymore, he is going right at a rapid pace, my guess is as the corporate donations come in.

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I'd consider myself centrist but do naturally lean to the left so I guess you're right there'll always be a bias either way.
Surely the party would hold Starmer back from going too far to the dark side.

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Originally Posted by superfeathers

Being a fairly simple person I look at things in a simple way.

The only party that has a chance of a majority these days will be fairly centrist.

A party leaning too much to the right will alienate half the population
a party leaning too much to the left alienates the other half

We might not like it, but we are where we are.

I'd rather a relatively centrist party be in power that has a slight lean to the left than the other way. So Starmer has it right and will have my vote.

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:thumbup:

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Originally Posted by Doucas

I agree with you completely. Under Starmer we will see business as usual. He's in the pockets of the mega wealthy.

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When was the last time the UK voted in a truly Socialist Govt ?

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Originally Posted by pipster

When was the last time the UK voted in a truly Socialist Govt ?

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Socialism is a term used by daft old tories living in the past

A few fringe meetings of people in big jumpers at labour party conferences or students waving around placards does not mean the huge chunk of people who don't vote for the tory filth are depressed, angry or upset that there is not a socialist ......May as well insert communist ......government in Britain

People like us don't like Tories we have always been around and always will be

If starmer gets a foot in the door then that's a start

He can be replaced or step down when he realises he's not the messiah

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Originally Posted by pipster

When was the last time the UK voted in a truly Socialist Govt ?

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It came rather close in 2017 when Theresa May blew a huge lead in the polls and Jeremy Corbyn somehow managed to force a hung parliament. It might also be worth noting that turnout for that election was the highest in decades.

Never before or since in living memory has one MP been so utterly savaged by the national newspapers, virtually all of which are Tory and quite far right leaning in cases like The Sun and the Daily Heil. Corbyn scared the living shit out of them. We'll never see any sort of socialism in the UK because the elite won't allow it. We haven't got true democracy at all.

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

It came rather close in 2017 when Theresa May blew a huge lead in the polls and Jeremy Corbyn somehow managed to force a hung parliament. It might also be worth noting that turnout for that election was the highest in decades.

Never before or since in living memory has one MP been so utterly savaged by the national newspapers, virtually all of which are Tory and quite far right leaning in cases like The Sun and the Daily Heil. Corbyn scared the living shit out of them. We'll never see any sort of socialism in the UK because the elite won't allow it. We haven't got true democracy at all.

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Or you could try answering the question, if / but / maybe isnt an answer.

When was the last time a Socialist Govt was elected in a general election?

Or you could try what someone else just did - and redefine socialism instead.

To answer my own question - I would probably Harold Wilson in the early 1970's. I wouldn't class Blair as a socialist - and Brown never won an election.
I remember Wilson - who I'd say was socialist before he became PM - then realised the job is slightly harder than he thought.

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Originally Posted by pipster

Or you could try answering the question, if / but / maybe isnt an answer.

When was the last time a Socialist Govt was elected in a general election?

Or you could try what someone else just did - and redefine socialism instead.

To answer my own question - I would probably Harold Wilson in the early 1970's. I wouldn't class Blair as a socialist - and Brown never won an election.
I remember Wilson - who I'd say was socialist before he became PM - then realised the job is slightly harder than he thought.

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For someone who isn't a tory ........yeah right ......you spent a lot of time slagging off the alternative

Thou doth protest too much my lord

I think Syriza in Greece were generally considered socialist weren't they? Totally fcked over by the EU of course, which makes the British Lefts love affair with Brussels all the more baffling.

Syriza won a second election I remember, before being voted out by Greek Conservatives

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

For someone who isn't a tory ........yeah right ......you spent a lot of time slagging off the alternative

Thou doth protest too much my lord

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Let me try again - Sludge in your opinion when was the last time we had a truly Socialist Govt ie one that actually won a general election ?

Dont try and redefine Socialism or claim Corbyn won - when he didnt (that's Trump territory) - just answer that one small question

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

I think Syriza in Greece were generally considered socialist weren't they? Totally fcked over by the EU of course, which makes the British Lefts love affair with Brussels all the more baffling.

Syriza won a second election I remember, before being voted out by Greek Conservatives

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Oh here he is again

He's not a tory but he's giving his right wing perspective of the EU

Bargain basement Nigel Farage

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Originally Posted by pipster

Let me try again - Sludge in your opinion when was the last time we had a truly Socialist Govt ie one that actually won a general election ?

Dont try and redefine Socialism or claim Corbyn won - when he didnt (that's Trump territory) - just answer that one small question

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I don't care when we last had a socialist govt

I am as much a socialist as I am one of your lot

I just despise the Tories and will be voting to kick you out

On your way

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

I think Syriza in Greece were generally considered socialist weren't they? Totally fcked over by the EU of course, which makes the British Lefts love affair with Brussels all the more baffling.

Syriza won a second election I remember, before being voted out by Greek Conservatives

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The EU is very right wing, pro business.

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

Oh here he is again

He's not a tory but he's giving his right wing perspective of the EU

Bargain basement Nigel Farage

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See this is what gets me. You are pro EU and pro Left, and what? Have no idea about the long running dispute between the Greek Govt and the EU?

It was basically an anti austerity socialist Greek govt vs a Pro-austerity EU.

Did you miss all that?

Guardian: "Syriza’s historic win puts Greece on collision course with Europe"

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/25/syriza-historic-win-greece-european-union-austerity

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30977587

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

See this is what gets me. You are pro EU and pro Left, and what? Have no idea about the long running dispute between the Greek Govt and the EU?

It was basically an anti austerity socialist Greek govt vs a Pro-austerity EU.

Did you miss all that?

Guardian: "Syriza’s historic win puts Greece on collision course with Europe"

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...nion-austerity

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30977587

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The greek Government couldn't even build hospitals or open medical centres such was the force from the EU. Ireland has suffered as well.

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

The EU is very right wing, pro business.

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That's the analysis from finished old pub bores like corbyn and Tony Benn

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

That's the analysis from finished old pub bores like corbyn and Tony Benn

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It basically promotes market forces at every turn. Its why across the EU most socialist parties (as opposed to centre-left) are eurosceptic.

The largest party in the EU parliament has also been the centre-right for years now and likely to get stronger still.

The British left should have been comfortable with Brexit, esp when the working class overwhelmingly voted for it. They couldn't do so because they let Farage dictate things (and also lots have lovely holiday homes in the south of France, darling)

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

It basically promotes market forces at every turn. Its why across the EU most socialist parties (as opposed to centre-left) are eurosceptic.

The largest party in the EU parliament has also been the centre-right for years now and likely to get stronger still.

The British left should have been comfortable with Brexit, esp when the working class overwhelmingly voted for it. They couldn't do so because they let Farage dictate things (and also lots have lovely holiday homes in the south of France, darling)

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Absolute bollocks