Starmer being compared to Enoch Powell now.

Just one question from me - is anyone on here aware of anyone who did not vote Labour last July who has changed their minds and are planning to vote for them now? I’m not, yet Starmer seems to be pursuing policies aimed at getting Reform voters from last year’s election to vote for him while taking what’s left of the traditional Labour vote for granted.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

Just one question from me - is anyone on here aware of anyone who did not vote Labour last July who has changed their minds and are planning to vote for them now? I’m not, yet Starmer seems to be pursuing policies aimed at getting Reform voters from last year’s election to vote for him while taking what’s left of the traditional Labour vote for granted.

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"Traditional Labour" is not necessarily something that relates to much of the electorate these days and Labour is genuinely concerned that Reform is peeling votes away from them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

"Traditional Labour" is not necessarily something that relates to much of the electorate these days and Labour is genuinely concerned that Reform is peeling votes away from them.

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There are still millions who consider themselves to be centre/left or left wing who feel they are natural Labour voters. It seems to me that this Government is taking them for granted and risk losing them (they’ve, almost certainly, lost my vote) while chasing after the votes of people who, in most cases, would never support them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

There are still millions who consider themselves to be centre/left or left wing who feel they are natural Labour voters. It seems to me that this Government is taking them for granted and risk losing them (they’ve, almost certainly, lost my vote) while chasing after the votes of people who, in most cases, would never support them.

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He's got to go he's absolutely hopeless

Whoever writes his speeches and advises him on policy needs binning

It's a waste of time trying to pull back any of those who are voting reform

Most were former tory voters , by some margin

Labour need to regroup and get into bed with the other non tory and non reform parties and they all need to stop bickering because if they don't reform and the Tories will be running the country in a little over 4 years

Starmer and his main team are all toxic to even most Labour supporters and the first casualty of this war has got to be them

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

"Traditional Labour" is not necessarily something that relates to much of the electorate these days and Labour is genuinely concerned that Reform is peeling votes away from them.

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It's gone beyond genuine concern most of my mates think starmer is dreadful and want him replaced ASAP

I agree with them

He's no midas

No fan of Starmer to begin with. I'm even less of a fan now.

Someone needs to sell the benefits of a diverse culture to the UK public, not reinforce any racism they may have.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

"Traditional Labour" is not necessarily something that relates to much of the electorate these days and Labour is genuinely concerned that Reform is peeling votes away from them.

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That's an urban myth.

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Originally Posted by Dorcus

That's an urban myth.

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Why so?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

Why so?

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It's often been stated but without any evidence.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dorcus

It's often been stated but without any evidence.

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Union membership has halved in the last 50 years and Labour victories in recent decades have been on the back of Labour moving away from the 'traditional' values of old Labour and to a more central ground, methinks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

Just one question from me - is anyone on here aware of anyone who did not vote Labour last July who has changed their minds and are planning to vote for them now? I’m not, yet Starmer seems to be pursuing policies aimed at getting Reform voters from last year’s election to vote for him while taking what’s left of the traditional Labour vote for granted.

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The criticisms of Starmer's language around migration are just nonsense in my opinion, I haven't seen any convincing piece yet to justify it.

Putting that aside, I don't think the policies will win votes unless they work, the public were lied to about migration for years (X target, then X target again, then Brexit will reduce it). The sad truth about the British public is that if Starmer reduces migration substantially, there's a good chance he wins the next election. He could make no progress elsewhere and it wouldn't matter to a lot of people.

I don't tend to ask people how they have voted so wouldn't know if any have switched.

Here is the speech from gov.uk, so that people can cite parts of it they actively disagree with:

Edit/ completely fecked up pasting it in full so here is the link

https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/pm-remarks-at-immigration-white-paper-press-conference-12-may-2025

Edit2/ now I've ****ed the link up, I give up

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eric Cartman

The criticisms of Starmer's language around migration are just nonsense in my opinion, I haven't seen any convincing piece yet to justify it.

Putting that aside, I don't think the policies will win votes unless they work, the public were lied to about migration for years (X target, then X target again, then Brexit will reduce it). The sad truth about the British public is that if Starmer reduces migration substantially, there's a good chance he wins the next election. He could make no progress elsewhere and it wouldn't matter to a lot of people.

I don't tend to ask people how they have voted so wouldn't know if any have switched.

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You are very much in the minority

He's been slated across the board and rightly so

It was an embarrassment to listen to that speech

He's about as sincere as a soggy cheese sandwich

Get rid of him Labour

Is Charlie free gear Kier faaaaar right ?

It appears to be getting more desperate by the day

The average lead for reform seems to be about 5 points over Labour

That's an absolute hammering in an election with reform being the biggest party , short of a majority but easily able to form a coalition with the Tories who would clearly jump at the chance

Starmer and his team are dead in the water , sinking after torpedo after torpedo

The only hope is for him to be toppled

If he isn't it's curtains

https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org...cles-for-you_1

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eric Cartman

The criticisms of Starmer's language around migration are just nonsense in my opinion, I haven't seen any convincing piece yet to justify it.

Putting that aside, I don't think the policies will win votes unless they work, the public were lied to about migration for years (X target, then X target again, then Brexit will reduce it). The sad truth about the British public is that if Starmer reduces migration substantially, there's a good chance he wins the next election. He could make no progress elsewhere and it wouldn't matter to a lot of people.

I don't tend to ask people how they have voted so wouldn't know if any have switched.

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So, to answer my question, you know no one who has switched to Labour since the 2024 election. Furthermore, there has been no replies yet in this thread from people who do know someone who plans to change their vote to Labour next time and, if people answer truthfully, I’m not expecting the situation to change. New Governments (I still believe this one just about qualifies as one) usually enjoy a boost in the polls following an election win, but Labour never did despite starting with an absurdly low percentage of the votes for the number of seats they won. It takes something special to become this unpopular so quickly, but Labour have managed it by what I’d say is a mixture of ineptitude, naivety and bare faced lying from the leader.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jon1959

https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org...cles-for-you_1

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The comment at the bottom asks if the plp can unite and give starmer his marching orders ?

I think that's the only hope

Quote:

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

So, to answer my question, you know no one who has switched to Labour since the 2024 election. Furthermore, there has been no replies yet in this thread from people who do know someone who plans to change their vote to Labour next time and, if people answer truthfully, I’m not expecting the situation to change. New Governments (I still believe this one just about qualifies as one) usually enjoy a boost in the polls following an election win, but Labour never did despite starting with an absurdly low percentage of the votes for the number of seats they won. It takes something special to become this unpopular so quickly, but Labour have managed it by what I’d say is a mixture of ineptitude, naivety and bare faced lying from the leader.

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How would I know? I don't ask people how they voted because I don't think it's worth talking about, if you end up talking about a particular policy (which happens less on here than in real life) I can usually make an educated guess but there are definitely people who say one thing and vote another way.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

Union membership has halved in the last 50 years and Labour victories in recent decades have been on the back of Labour moving away from the 'traditional' values of old Labour and to a more central ground, methinks.

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I think the left has completely lost its identity to the point where it is hard to tell who is who, new left seems to be more interested in sentiment than action and the thread title is an example of that (not bob's words, just the comparison being thrown around in the media).

The old left from what I understand as a mid-30s guy used to be about creating a better future for the majority/working people. The new left rarely talks about working people, can't bring itself to talk rationally about migration, can't bring itself to talk rationally about people being supported by the taxpayer, focussing on soundbites and outrage.

Labour are stuck in the middle of that somewhere, between the rock of unpopular but necessary changes and the hard place of trying to win the next election after burning political capital to make those changes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

You are very much in the minority

He's been slated across the board and rightly so

It was an embarrassment to listen to that speech

He's about as sincere as a soggy cheese sandwich

Get rid of him Labour

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Which bits do you disagree with sludge?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eric Cartman

Which bits do you disagree with sludge?

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The whole speech

It made it worse that it was delivered by him

He's shocking


The whole thing is student common room politics

I must admit, I was surprised by the words used by Starmer. I gather the actual wording used within the paper was less 'eye catchung' than used in the forward and the speech but still. Not least I'm surprised because of his past comments, even signing a letter to prevent the removal of foreign criminals a year or two ago!

So strong language used, but he is right. Immigration levels at where they are for the last few years (under the Tories) of touching 1m a year is wholly off the scale and impossible to maintain living standards with. The levels since 2004 (around 250000-350,000) is itself historically extremely high and is totally changing the economy and society and if poorly managed is creating very divided societies. The lack of integration is a very serious issue, the impact on housing, services (good and bad) and on training, our economy (good and bad) and our society generally (good and bad) is really very significant.

The Enoch Powell accusation is used (like Tommy Robinson, like Maggie Thatcher, like Trump, like Hitler) to shut down the debate on this topic and it amazes me that anyone thinks that strategy still works. Rhetoric and tone matters but people are sick of things not changing and having their concerns dismissed.

There was a yougov poll on newsnight last night about what Starmer said and the findings were;

Generally tend to agree with his sentiments - 53
Generally tend not to agree with his sentiments - 27

Language he used was okay -50%
Language he used was not okay - 30%

Timing wise, I think there's a few things at play

1- immigration figures are out next week. They will fall apparently which will be presented as positive and he wants to nail Labours colours to that mast.

2 - Reform doing so well in the local elections, particularly in working class areas

3 - the damned reality of government. When in opposition he can say what he likes about immigration. When in government he has to deal with it, and the reality of its impact on a wide range of topics

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

I must admit, I was surprised by the words used by Starmer. I gather the actual wording used within the paper was less 'eye catchung' than used in the forward and the speech but still. Not least I'm surprised because of his past comments, even signing a letter to prevent the removal of foreign criminals a year or two ago!

So strong language used, but he is right. Immigration levels at where they are for the last few years (under the Tories) of touching 1m a year is wholly off the scale and impossible to maintain living standards with. The levels since 2004 (around 250000-350,000) is itself historically extremely high and is totally changing the economy and society and if poorly managed is creating very divided societies. The lack of integration is a very serious issue, the impact on housing, services (good and bad) and on training, our economy (good and bad) and our society generally (good and bad) is really very significant.

The Enoch Powell accusation is used (like Tommy Robinson, like Maggie Thatcher, like Trump, like Hitler) to shut down the debate on this topic and it amazes me that anyone thinks that strategy still works. Rhetoric and tone matters but people are sick of things not changing and having their concerns dismissed.

There was a yougov poll on newsnight last night about what Starmer said and the findings were;

Generally tend to agree with his sentiments - 53
Generally tend not to agree with his sentiments - 27

Language he used was okay -50%
Language he used was not okay - 30%

Timing wise, I think there's a few things at play

1- immigration figures are out next week. They will fall apparently which will be presented as positive and he wants to nail Labours colours to that mast.

2 - Reform doing so well in the local elections, particularly in working class areas

3 - the damned reality of government. When in opposition he can say what he likes about immigration. When in government he has to deal with it, and the reality of its impact on a wide range of topics

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He's a bust flush

Toxic and floundering around

Get him gone

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

He's a bust flush

Toxic and floundering around

Get him gone

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Barring a scandal he'll be in PM for a while yet!