Wycombe, Wednesday and Rotherham relegated. City finish 8th

Derby survive.

Play offs

Barnsley v Swansea
Brentford v Bournmouth

Cardiff end the season in 8th place on 68 points.

Goals galore in the Championship today, an average of 4 per game)

Barnsley 2 - 2 Norwich
Blackburn 5 - 2 Birmingham (Armstrong hat trick)
Bournemouth 0 - 2 Stoke
Bristol 1 - 3 Brentford
Cardiff 1 - 1 Rotherham
Coventry 6 - 1 Millwall (last game at St Andrew's)
Derby 3 - 3 Wednesday
M'boro 0 - 3 Wycombe
Forest 1 - 2 Preston
QPR 3 - 1 Luton
Reading 2 - 2 Huddersfield
Watford 2 - 0 Swansea

Sheffield Wednesday finish bottom but were just one goal away from survival.

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Originally Posted by NYCBlue

Sheffield Wednesday finish bottom but were just one goal away from survival.

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Shame about Wednesday and Rotherham

Looking ahead to next season it might've been best if Pack had skied his shot at the end sending both Derby and Wednesday down and giving us a slightly better chance of either avoiding relegation or getting promoted next year. That said despite their spirit the Millers can only really blame themselves as they spurned a host of convertible chances which should've seen them win with ease.

two of sheffield wednesday's goals would have been given offside if var had been available.Pehaps city could make a bid to bring Bannan to CCS.

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

Shame about Wednesday and Rotherham

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So our 88th minute goal saved Derby......sickening

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Originally Posted by Michael Morris

Cardiff end the season in 8th place on 68 points.

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Exactly the same situation as 2015/16 under the management of the much-maligned Russell Slade - 8th place and 68 points. Back then, City finished six points shy of the play-offs. This time around it was nine points.

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

Exactly the same situation as 2015/16 under the management of the much-maligned Russell Slade - 8th place and 68 points. Back then, City finished six points shy of the play-offs. This time around it was nine points.

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Which is nothing less than a damning indictment of Neil Harris!

Mick McCarthy was manager for 22 games.

10 wins, 9 draws, 3 defeats.

Lord knows where we would have been if Harris had stayed.

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Originally Posted by Michael Morris

Lord knows where we would have been if Harris had stayed.

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I’d guess mid-table. Probably lower in mid-table than where they finished in mid-table, but mid-table all the same.

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Originally Posted by Madassa

Looking ahead to next season it might've been best if Pack had skied his shot at the end sending both Derby and Wednesday down and giving us a slightly better chance of either avoiding relegation or getting promoted next year. That said despite their spirit the Millers can only really blame themselves as they spurned a host of convertible chances which should've seen them win with ease.

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Whenever I saw them in highlights, it was always the same. They just can't finish.

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

I’d guess mid-table. Probably lower in mid-table than where they finished in mid-table, but mid-table all the same.

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Well what is mid-table? 7th through 18th? 8th through 17th? The latter being the minimum requirement for City finishing in mid table. Given that we were 17th at one point it seems no given that we’d definitely have finished mid-table under Harris. If we can get so close to above mid-table under Mick, it follows that there was every chance of finishing below mid-table under Harris!

I've seen virtually every game, but to be honest I think I'm glad the seasons over. It's not the same without fans. Hope next season fans can come back.
Football does not seem to have been so intense although that might be my imagination.
What can I say about City? Not sure, but I guess 8th is about right. In flashes the attacking play has been excellent, the defence sound, but other games we have been sloppy and full of mistakes. Our ball retention is parks standard.
Next season we need to sort our midfield and attacking 3rd. Hopefully the budget will allow a couple of decent frees.

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Originally Posted by Lord Dargavel

Well what is mid-table? 7th through 18th? 8th through 17th? The latter being the minimum requirement for City finishing in mid table. Given that we were 17th at one point it seems no given that we’d definitely have finished mid-table under Harris. If we can get so close to above mid-table under Mick, it follows that there was every chance of finishing below mid-table under Harris!

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What is mid-table? Good question. I suppose it's down to individual interpretation. As far as I'm concerned, City were never serious promotion candidates. They finished nine points short of the play-offs, but realistically it was ten when you consider Bournemouth's vastly superior goal difference. They were never serious relegation candidates, either. To me, that's the definition of a mid-table side.

When Harris was sacked, City were 15th in the table, having lost five Championship games on the trot. The team was obviously struggling and the manager had clearly lost his way a little, but I believe too much has been made of that losing streak. After all, those five games included two against champions Norwich, who would most likely have beaten City twice at any stage of the season, Brentford, who are one of the best teams in the Championship and were in great form at the time, QPR, who eventually finished level on points with City, and Wycombe, who also beat Reading and Bournemouth on their own patch.

There's no doubt whatsoever that results improved under McCarthy, but I don't believe City were heading for relegation under Harris. They were in mid-table, 9 points clear of the relegation zone when he was sacked. The bottom three at the time were the three sides who eventually got relegated. I think a mid-table finish was pretty much a certainty, although it would probably have been a lower mid-table finish than the eventual mid-table finish.

If there are 24 teams in a division, then finishing mid table must surely mean between 9th and 16th?

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Originally Posted by William Treseder

If there are 24 teams in a division, then finishing mid table must surely mean between 9th and 16th?

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Yes, it must. Therefore, QPR, who finished 9th on 68 points, were a mid-table side, but Cardiff, who finished 8th on 68 points, were not.

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

Yes, it must. Therefore, QPR, who finished 9th on 68 points, were a mid-table side, but Cardiff, who finished 8th on 68 points, were not.

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I’d go along with that. You can only gauge a finishing place in 2 ways. You either go top half and bottom half, which is self explanatory, or to use the term ‘mid table”, you have to split it into 3.
So we finished top 3rd. Which in itself, makes 7th and 8th place bitter sweet.
It’s a fairly successful season, but we miss out on the play offs.

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Originally Posted by William Treseder

It’s a fairly successful season, but we miss out on the play offs.

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You think finishing 9 points shy of the play-offs (having finished in the play-offs last season) is a success?

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

You think finishing 9 points shy of the play-offs (having finished in the play-offs last season) is a success?

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That’s why i used the term “fairly successful”
When a season begins, there are favourites for promotion and favourites for relegation.
We were in neither group at the beginning of this season, despite reaching last seasons play offs.
We have a very mediocre squad as far as championship standards go, and very few if any City fans would have expected to go up this season.
Couple that with the pandemic and all that entailed, then changing managers, so finishing in 8th place, imo, was fairly successful.
Now Derby for instance, even though they stayed up, had a very unsuccessful campaign, for the expectations they must have had.

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Originally Posted by Michael Morris

Derby survive.

Play offs

Barnsley v Swansea
Brentford v Bournmouth

Cardiff end the season in 8th place on 68 points.

Goals galore in the Championship today, an average of 4 per game)

Barnsley 2 - 2 Norwich
Blackburn 5 - 2 Birmingham (Armstrong hat trick)
Bournemouth 0 - 2 Stoke
Bristol 1 - 3 Brentford
Cardiff 1 - 1 Rotherham
Coventry 6 - 1 Millwall (last game at St Andrew's)
Derby 3 - 3 Wednesday
M'boro 0 - 3 Wycombe
Forest 1 - 2 Preston
QPR 3 - 1 Luton
Reading 2 - 2 Huddersfield
Watford 2 - 0 Swansea

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Why is it that Bristol City always flatter to deceive?

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Originally Posted by William Treseder

That’s why i used the term “fairly successful”

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I'd use the term 'totally unsuccessful' as City achieved no success whatsoever.

Incidentally, Derby's 'very unsuccessful' campaign has resulted in exactly the same thing as City's 'fairly successful' campaign - Championship football next season.

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Originally Posted by William Treseder

That’s why i used the term “fairly successful”
When a season begins, there are favourites for promotion and favourites for relegation.
We were in neither group at the beginning of this season, despite reaching last seasons play offs.
We have a very mediocre squad as far as championship standards go, and very few if any City fans would have expected to go up this season.
Couple that with the pandemic and all that entailed, then changing managers, so finishing in 8th place, imo, was fairly successful.
Now Derby for instance, even though they stayed up, had a very unsuccessful campaign, for the expectations they must have had.

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“A very mediocre squad by championship standards”. Disagree. Completely. That squad was good enough for play offs.

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Originally Posted by J R Hartley

“A very mediocre squad by championship standards”. Disagree. Completely. That squad was good enough for play offs.

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It clearly wasn’t

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

I'd use the term 'totally unsuccessful' as City achieved no success whatsoever.

Incidentally, Derby's 'very unsuccessful' campaign has resulted in exactly the same thing as City's 'fairly successful' campaign - Championship football next season.

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So 22 championship teams will have had an unsuccessful season and about 13 Premier league teams as well?

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Originally Posted by William Treseder

So 22 championship teams will have had an unsuccessful season and about 13 Premier league teams as well?

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Success is relative.

City got to the play-offs last season. They failed to do so (by a considerable distance) this season and were knocked out of both cups at the first hurdle. If you believe that's a 'relatively successful' season, it seems you're very easily pleased. Unlike the club's board, whose targets for 2020/21 were certainly not met.

In terms of points, City finished closer to 14th than 6th. I think that demonstrates how successful the season was.

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Originally Posted by William Treseder

It clearly wasn’t

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PPG since Mick took over would have had us finishing 4th over the course of a full season so quite clearly the squad is good enough. More or less the same squad as 19/20 which finished in the play offs plus Moore, Wilson and NG added.

The standard of the Championship has been dire this season. To call our squad a “very mediocre championship squad” is quite frankly laughable.

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

Success is relative.

City got to the play-offs last season. They failed to do so (by a considerable distance) this season and were knocked out of both cups at the first hurdle. If you believe that's a 'relatively successful' season, it seems you're very easily pleased. Unlike the club's board, whose targets for 2020/21 were certainly not met.

In terms of points, City finished closer to 14th than 6th. I think that demonstrates how successful the season was.

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We didn’t finish 14th though. We finished 8th.
Do you think reaching the play offs and getting beat would have counted as success? Or getting through a few rounds in both cups?
I’m not easily pleased, but i’’m also not unrealistic in my expectations when i look at the squad we have at the beginning of each season, and who is managing us.

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Originally Posted by J R Hartley

PPG since Mick took over would have had us finishing 4th over the course of a full season so quite clearly the squad is good enough. More or less the same squad as 19/20 which finished in the play offs plus Moore, Wilson and NG added.

The standard of the Championship has been dire this season. To call our squad a “very mediocre championship squad” is quite frankly laughable.

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That’s your opinion, which your entitled to, but it’s not mine. You’ve already admitted the standard in the division this season was dire, so only a very mediocre squad would miss out on the play offs.
Off which there were plenty, including us.

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Originally Posted by William Treseder

We didn’t finish 14th though. We finished 8th. Do you think reaching the play offs and getting beat would have counted as success?

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Finishing 8th was no different to finishing 14th. The end result was exactly the same.

Reaching the play-offs and getting beaten would be more successful than not reaching the play-offs at all. However, to me at least, that would not constitute a successful season as the club did exactly that last season. It wouldn't have signalled that progress had been made.

There is no way in the world that this has been a 'fairly successful season' for Cardiff City. It's been a season that has been mediocre at best and it has ended without any success.

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

Finishing 8th was no different to finishing 14th. The end result was exactly the same.

Reaching the play-offs and getting beaten would be more successful than not reaching the play-offs at all. However, to me at least, that would not constitute a successful season as the club did exactly that last season. It wouldn't have signalled that progress had been made.

There is no way in the world that this has been a 'fairly successful season' for Cardiff City. It's been a season that has been mediocre at best and it has ended without any success.

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Reaching the play-offs and getting beaten would be more successful than not reaching the play-offs at all
So following that train of thought, finishing 8th, is more successful than finishing 14th?
We got there in the end 👍

the most forgetful season i can not! remember

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Originally Posted by William Treseder

So following that train of thought, finishing 8th, is more successful than finishing 14th?

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Would you regard finishing 11th next season as 'fairly successful'?

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

Would you regard finishing 11th next season as 'fairly successful'?

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As i said earlier, it depends on what our Squad looks like for next season. If we were to lose say 3 or 4 of our best players, and failed to replace them with any quality, then 11th place could be regarded as “fairly” successful.
If Tan splashes the cash, and we bring in real quality, then 11th will be under whelming.

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Originally Posted by William Treseder

As i said earlier, it depends on what our Squad looks like for next season.

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So, you believe that having finished 5th in 2019/20 and having added the likes of Kieffer Moore and Harry Wilson to the squad, 2020/21 was 'fairly successful' despite finishing only 8th.

With FFP I doubt Tan can actually splash the cash.

Its going to be an interesting summer.

Frees loans maybe a small fee or 2 particularly if we sell Moore.

Im not counting on 7m for Will Vaulks.

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

So, you believe that having finished 5th in 2019/20 and having added the likes of Kieffer Moore and Harry Wilson to the squad, 2020/21 was 'fairly successful' despite finishing only 8th.

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We finished roughly where i thought we would. I would have classed finishing like Derby did as fairly unsuccessful.

The three that go up can be classed as successful, the three that go down as unsuccessful all the others are more or less ‘ere we go again. Football, I s’pose, is all about the present time, a lot of Derby fans most probably had their ‘successful’ heads on at the final whistle yesterday, while the team that gets beat at Wembley in a few weeks time will be quite the opposite and barring any financial shenanigans they’ll both start on 0 points come August with all the hopes and dreams that come with the start of a new season.

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

Finishing 8th was no different to finishing 14th. The end result was exactly the same.

Reaching the play-offs and getting beaten would be more successful than not reaching the play-offs at all. However, to me at least, that would not constitute a successful season as the club did exactly that last season. It wouldn't have signalled that progress had been made.

There is no way in the world that this has been a 'fairly successful season' for Cardiff City. It's been a season that has been mediocre at best and it has ended without any success.

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It’s been a season to forget, almost as if it didn’t really happen

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

You think finishing 9 points shy of the play-offs (having finished in the play-offs last season) is a success?

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Measuring success (or lack of) is one of those curiosities. Finishing 9 points shy of the playoffs at the start of the season would probably have been seen as a bit of a let down. By the time Harris was sacked, that would have been a fantasy! When McCarthy dragged us into 6th, finishing 9 points adrift is again a bit of a let down. How you define success changes throughout a season, I think. We could have finished much lower than we did, so there's an element of success in that we didn't end up in a relegation battle, given how the season panned out, but when looked at from the reference point of last season, given the signings we've made, it's not been one to remember.

I remember getting into arguments on here during the reign of King Dave Jones. The season we finished 7th, missing out to Preston after an almost unassailable lead over them, there were quite a few fans who thought that meant progress, that it was a good season as it was the highest finish in many years. The fact we were in the running for automatic promotion before those last fateful four games meant nothing to some. The reality was that a 7th placed finish, given the season we had had, was utter garbage.