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Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool
6000 majority for the tories
Not only does starmer need to go , I think its the end of Labour
Time for a left of centre party, Labour is done . I vote for them because I will never vote conservative but they are finished in my opinion
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Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
6000 majority for the tories
Not only does starmer need to go , I think its the end of Labour
Time for a left of centre party, Labour is done . I vote for them because I will never vote conservative but they are finished in my opinion
Starmer is just another Tory in disguise isn’t he? Like they all NOW say tony Bliar was. Bob won’t be happy today hey
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Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool
I also think Labour are finished. Conservatives must think it’s Christmas every day. There is absolutely no opposition to them, It’s a woeful situation.
I see only 2 paths now. The UK either get used to being Tory led for the foreseeable future, or Wales and Scotland take a gamble and go independent,
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Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool
Quote:
Originally Posted by
goats
Starmer is just another Tory in disguise isn’t he? Like they all NOW say tony Bliar was. Bob won’t be happy today hey
Wonder what Jeff Stelling thinks?
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Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
6000 majority for the tories
Not only does starmer need to go , I think its the end of Labour
Time for a left of centre party, Labour is done . I vote for them because I will never vote conservative but they are finished in my opinion
Wasn’t that going to be the Lib Dem’s? Look how they got on in the by election coming 6th. The UK needs a credible opposition but the current crop are hopeless.
Not sure where this leaves the political future but it looks grim at the moment.
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Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool
The unions got a lot to answer for, interfering with leadership and demanding the dumb milliband got in instead of his brother who was in line for leader, since then we've had two clowns in Corbyn and Stammer. Personally I thought after Corbyn it would have been a good time to bring in a woman leader but that Scouse twat McCluskey was not having that. RIP.
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Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool
Quote:
Originally Posted by
goats
Starmer is just another Tory in disguise isn’t he? Like they all NOW say tony Bliar was. Bob won’t be happy today hey
It seems like that but the public think differently; otherwise they would have voted for him. The problem with Labour is that nobody gets what they stand for. Appointing Starmer as leader was daft. He was the guy that was at least 50% responsible for Labour's defeat at the last election due to Labour's wooly views on Brexit. Were they for it or against it? Holding a conference of Labour insiders to determine the country's future didn't stand up to public opinion. And that view carries forward to this day as the public have no idea of their views on the major issues.
Unusually I tend to agree with SLUDGE.
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Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool
Labour will never be finished but they'll always lose out until they get rid of a few factions of their support.
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Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool
How anyone normal person in the street can think that Tories will improve their lives is bewildering. Things don’t look good and Labour are promising to change more. But in what way? Do they mean opposition to Tories or chasing Tory votes? The latter isn’t going to work.
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Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool
People are quick to find reasons to dislike Labour (just look at this thread!) and quick to find excuses for the Tories.
Of course, what we all want is the UK to become a better place to live in for everyone no matter who is in government. Hartlepool yesterday said it was getting better and to be fair, based on what I've heard, I think it probably is for their locals even if it's only getting better after 10 years of needless Tory austerity.
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Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool
Quote:
Originally Posted by
goats
Starmer is just another Tory in disguise isn’t he? Like they all NOW say tony Bliar was. Bob won’t be happy today hey
The last time a Labour leader not called Tony Blair won a general election was in 1974.
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Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool
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Originally Posted by
goats
Starmer is just another Tory in disguise isn’t he? Like they all NOW say tony Bliar was. Bob won’t be happy today hey
Not really, something is clearly changing in this country and, taking party politics out of it, it seems very odd to me that maybe as much as millions of people are deciding to give a party that has not been in power for eleven years a kicking. Normal political behaviour would see a reaction against a party that has been in Government for more than a decade which has enforced a period of austerity that saw living standards drop for most people and yet there is no protest vote against that party and they’re thriving.
There would be a boost for any Government that oversaw the launch a vaccine which proved successful, but there was no pandemic in 2019 when the combined Conservative and UKIP vote easily beat the Labour vote in Hartlepool - with UKIP out of the running this time, the result shouldn’t come as a surprise.
I still think Brexit is playing a huge part in shaping how people vote, especially in the north of England and places like Wrexham, but, five years after the referendum, I’ve still not seen or read anything convincing as to why Labour are the party that is being blamed electorally for causing the situation. No doubt, this result will bring more pieces from analysts claiming to know exactly what is going on, but I’m not sure anyone does yet.
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Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool
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Originally Posted by
goats
Starmer is just another Tory in disguise isn’t he? Like they all NOW say tony Bliar was. Bob won’t be happy today hey
I'm not even sure WHAT Starmer is.
He seems entirely governed by focus groups and the like that I would be hard pressed to tell you of any of his actual firm held beliefs.
It is a difficult situation at the moment though - the national pandemic response is somewhat akin to a wartime government, and the feeling is that the public would react badly to heavy criticism as they feel the government is trying its best in a difficult situation, and they don't want to see people politicking at a time of national disaster.
So there is definitely a school of thought that Starmer would be best to keep his powder dry until the pandemic has gone, then start to crank up the pressure once the sleaze, corruption and incompetence are plain to see.
The question for me is: Is he keeping his powder dry, or does he just not have a spark?
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Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool
What doesn't help the Labour party is the kind of things that is already happening this morning.
you have the left of the party in the form of Ms Abbott already saying Starmer should go back to genuine left wing policies and the kind of thing her team espoused, and a front bench spokesman saying he thinks they have to completely ditch the lft and concentrate on winning the middle ground.
There is nothing wrong with having these conversations/arguments but ffs why do they always have to do it in public/ People see it and must think that if they vote for them they don't know which side of the fight they'll end up putting in power.
It's almost like they have a self destruct button, it's crazy!!
And let's be fair, as honest and committed as Starmer might be, he has the personality of a boiled egg.
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Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool
We're largely waiting to see if there is substance behind Boris' claims and whether people will be ready to listen - either his positive message comes off (and combined with boundary changes, removal of spending cap at elections etc.) Tories continue to dominate England or it becomes obvious that he lacks substance and things might change.
Already we've seen that the Irish Protocol Boris pushed through in order to get brexit done doesn't hold up but people generally don't care about Northern Ireland.
In the meantime, Labour needs to become more united as a party because they're judged to a higher standard before people are willing to lend them a vote.
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Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool
The result has been diagnosed as Labour still suffering from Long Corbyn
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Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool
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Originally Posted by
life on mars
The result has been diagnosed as Labour still suffering from Long Corbyn
you wouldn't believe that if you were one of those faithful to Abbott and her associates. She says it is the departure from Corbyn policies that caused it.
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Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool
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Originally Posted by
Dave Blue
How anyone normal person in the street can think that Tories will improve their lives is bewildering. Things don’t look good and Labour are promising to change more. But in what way? Do they mean opposition to Tories or chasing Tory votes? The latter isn’t going to work.
And there we have it in a nutshell. The reason why Labour probably is finished. A total inability to realise that left wing politics is dead and at the same time insulting anyone that might even consider voting Conservative by insinuating that they cant be normal.
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Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool
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Originally Posted by
xsnaggle
What doesn't help the Labour party is the kind of things that is already happening this morning.
you have the left of the party in the form of Ms Abbott already saying Starmer should go back to genuine left wing policies and the kind of thing her team espoused, and a front bench spokesman saying he thinks they have to completely ditch the lft and concentrate on winning the middle ground.
There is nothing wrong with having these conversations/arguments but ffs why do they always have to do it in public/ People see it and must think that if they vote for them they don't know which side of the fight they'll end up putting in power.
It's almost like they have a self destruct button, it's crazy!!
And let's be fair, as honest and committed as Starmer might be, he has the personality of a boiled egg.
I saw her tweet , she just can't keep her gob shut
Can't stand her brand of socialism
The Tories are nasty ......but never mind that my sons going to private school !
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Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool
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Originally Posted by
xsnaggle
you wouldn't believe that if you were one of those faithful to Abbott and her associates. She says it is the departure from Corbyn policies that caused it.
She's a lunatic who eats prawn sandwiches
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Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dml1954
And there we have it in a nutshell. The reason why Labour probably is finished. A total inability to realise that left wing politics is dead and at the same time insulting anyone that might even consider voting Conservative by insinuating that they cant be normal.
Has Labour WA really benefitted me personally? I can't say that it has
Have the Tories at Westminster hindered me? I can't say that it has - helped me in my career sector massively though
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Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dml1954
And there we have it in a nutshell. The reason why Labour probably is finished. A total inability to realise that left wing politics is dead and at the same time insulting anyone that might even consider voting Conservative by insinuating that they cant be normal.
to be fair they are very odd
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Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
6000 majority for the tories
Not only does starmer need to go , I think its the end of Labour
Time for a left of centre party, Labour is done . I vote for them because I will never vote conservative but they are finished in my opinion
Labour are not left wing. I think what you want is an even more right wing labour party, like under Blair, where Tory fiscal policy and deregulation on a scale even the Tories couldn't believe is the order of the day.
There is no Left wing alternative, because there hasn't been one for decades.The last bloke that attempted basic left wing policy was called a terrorist, ridiculed over his appearance and attacked by his own party (Twice) as well as the entire media. Labour are getting what they deserve for not evolving into a party that cares for those that need them most, workers. Instead of implementing policy that protects the most vulnerable and the hardest hit, as well as protecting services etc, they've just chased the Tories about, it's like a Benny hill sketch.
Centrist means right wing. Labour aren't offering an alternative, although it seems that the voting public are swallowing up this shit that says that we need to pander to the 'moderate' which usually means more right than left.
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Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dml1954
And there we have it in a nutshell. The reason why Labour probably is finished. A total inability to realise that left wing politics is dead and at the same time insulting anyone that might even consider voting Conservative by insinuating that they cant be normal.
Just like those 17,410,72 idiots who didn't know what they were doing when they voted to leave the EU.
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Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool
Quote:
Originally Posted by
William Treseder
I also think Labour are finished. Conservatives must think it’s Christmas every day. There is absolutely no opposition to them, It’s a woeful situation.
I see only 2 paths now. The UK either get used to being Tory led for the foreseeable future, or Wales and Scotland take a gamble and go independent,
a new alternative to the tories party , call it the democratic party , best of Labour, Liberal, green etc
Only way forward
Labour is finished on a UK level
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Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool
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Originally Posted by
surge
People are quick to find reasons to dislike Labour (just look at this thread!) and quick to find excuses for the Tories.
Of course, what we all want is the UK to become a better place to live in for everyone no matter who is in government. Hartlepool yesterday said it was getting better and to be fair, based on what I've heard, I think it probably is for their locals even if it's only getting better after 10 years of needless Tory austerity.
10 years of Tory austerity that came about as a result of Labour almost bankrupting the Country. People are not stupid, they have longer memories that Corbyn and Starmer gave them credit for. They also realised that in spite of all the hardship caused by the austerity measures, the alternative is a Labour Government who ridiculously wanted to go on a reckless spending spree by borrowing hundreds of billions more.
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Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool
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Originally Posted by
Tuerto
Labour are not left wing. I think what you want is an even more right wing labour party, like under Blair, where Tory fiscal policy and deregulation on a scale even the Tories couldn't believe is the order of the day.
There is no Left wing alternative, because there hasn't been one for decades.The last bloke that attempted basic left wing policy was called a terrorist, ridiculed over his appearance and attacked by his own party (Twice) as well as the entire media. Labour are getting what they deserve for not evolving into a party that cares for those that need them most, workers. Instead of implementing policy that protects the most vulnerable and the hardest hit, as well as protecting services etc, they've just chased the Tories about, it's like a Benny hill sketch.
Centrist means right wing. Labour aren't offering an alternative, although it seems that the voting public are swallowing up this shit that says that we need to pander to the 'moderate' which usually means more right than left.
he's off again
Power to the people 💪
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Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tuerto
Labour are not left wing. I think what you want is an even more right wing labour party, like under Blair, where Tory fiscal policy and deregulation on a scale even the Tories couldn't believe is the order of the day.
There is no Left wing alternative, because there hasn't been one for decades.The last bloke that attempted basic left wing policy was called a terrorist, ridiculed over his appearance and attacked by his own party (Twice) as well as the entire media. Labour are getting what they deserve for not evolving into a party that cares for those that need them most, workers. Instead of implementing policy that protects the most vulnerable and the hardest hit, as well as protecting services etc, they've just chased the Tories about, it's like a Benny hill sketch.
Centrist means right wing. Labour aren't offering an alternative, although it seems that the voting public are swallowing up this shit that says that we need to pander to the 'moderate' which usually means more right than left.
The left wing of the Labour party handed the Tories their biggest majority for over 30 years at the last general election.
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Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool
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Originally Posted by
A Quiet Monkfish
Just like those 17,410,72 idiots who didn't know what they were doing when they voted to leave the EU.
Well the ones in Wales are clearly idiots as the UK government is now withdrawing money from Wales promised to plug the gap left by leaving Europe
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Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool
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Originally Posted by
dml1954
10 years of Tory austerity that came about as a result of Labour almost bankrupting the Country. People are not stupid, they have longer memories that Corbyn and Starmer gave them credit for. They also realised that in spite of all the hardship caused by the austerity measures, the alternative is a Labour Government who ridiculously wanted to go on a reckless spending spree by borrowing hundreds of billions more.
The Labour spending plans supported by Cameron in opposition ?
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Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tuerto
Labour are not left wing. I think what you want is an even more right wing labour party, like under Blair, where Tory fiscal policy and deregulation on a scale even the Tories couldn't believe is the order of the day.
There is no Left wing alternative, because there hasn't been one for decades.The last bloke that attempted basic left wing policy was called a terrorist, ridiculed over his appearance and attacked by his own party (Twice) as well as the entire media. Labour are getting what they deserve for not evolving into a party that cares for those that need them most, workers. Instead of implementing policy that protects the most vulnerable and the hardest hit, as well as protecting services etc, they've just chased the Tories about, it's like a Benny hill sketch.
Centrist means right wing. Labour aren't offering an alternative, although it seems that the voting public are swallowing up this shit that says that we need to pander to the 'moderate' which usually means more right than left.
People don't want to be taxed ‘until the pips squeak’ any more. They want to be encouraged to go out, work hard, keep more of their own money and better themselves through their own efforts. Not lie about sponging off the state as became the norm under previous Labour Governments.
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Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool
Just for the record, Tories have made noises that they're taking a massive step towards proposals set out by Corbyn and McDonnell because they were extremely popular policies and this should be evidence enough that leftwing politics isn't dead. (We haven't seen whether these are implemented properly yet and not doubt it's Labour's fault if it's not implemented well).
They've combined that with a creeping authoritarian, regressive culture which attacks opposition in any form in a way that would make Trump or Orban (Hungary) proud.
I had a conversation yesterday with a conservative voter (small c) who said they'd never vote Tory again because of what they're currently doing economically and culturally. We're not hearing that yet because i) how popular this political position is (economically centre-left, culturally right, authoritarian) and ii) Tories are still a party friendly to billionaire's.
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Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool
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Originally Posted by
LeningradCowboy
The left wing of the Labour party handed the Tories their biggest majority for over 30 years at the last general election.
You think it's that simple? Fair enough. A question for you- you say that you hate Tories etc, what do you think you would get under a centrist party which will have obvious right wing leanings?
You're great at espousing the social aspect of your character, one that champions the most vulnerable, the needy, the destitute etc. How do you think that we've arrived at that over the past 30 years or so?
I presume that you would like to see better services, more real affordable social housing, real investment in deprived areas, better care for the plenty who are taking their own lives or sitting depressed, directly or indirectly caused through years of right wing policy, yet you promote more of the same, because you believe that basic policy which allows people to live better can never exist. Fair play sludge, like plenty of others, they've done a job on you.
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Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool
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Originally Posted by
LeningradCowboy
The left wing of the Labour party handed the Tories their biggest majority for over 30 years at the last general election.
It wasn't left wing, it's was far more left wing than we'd seen in the UK for several decades/perhaps ever. There is still a massive difference.
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Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool
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Originally Posted by
LeningradCowboy
The left wing of the Labour party handed the Tories their biggest majority for over 30 years at the last general election.
indeed
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Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool
Quote:
Originally Posted by
WJ99mobile
Has Labour WA really benefitted me personally? I can't say that it has
Have the Tories at Westminster hindered me? I can't say that it has - helped me in my career sector massively though
The old class divide has collapsed we longer see those traditional manual workers voting in droves for Labour , Labour has moved to more of a Metropolitan City party where its safer in the areas like Manchester , Liverpool , Bristol, and London , the traditional heartlands up north and parts midlands are seeing a shift in voting to the Tories , as they don't connect or like the Metropolitan view , it doesn't make them evil , its simply a shift in the democratic voting patterns of people .
Will be interesting to how it plays out in Wales with the gains and losses and mayoral voting in England .
Cant be bothered with the enclave that is Scotland and their ruler she reminds me of Thatcher my way or no way , lol ???
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Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dml1954
And there we have it in a nutshell. The reason why Labour probably is finished. A total inability to realise that left wing politics is dead and at the same time insulting anyone that might even consider voting Conservative by insinuating that they cant be normal.
Left wing politics is certainly not dead.
Just fractured
This result cannot be seen as a rejecton of left wing policies, as which of those has Starmer been pushing recently?
The main political issues I think are still Brexit and the pandemic.
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Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dml1954
People don't want to be taxed ‘until the pips squeak’ any more. They want to be encouraged to go out, work hard, keep more of their own money and better themselves through their own efforts. Not lie about sponging off the state as became the norm under previous Labour Governments.
that sounds like thatcher
You realise the benefits system provided for more proportionally under the tories than it did under Blair and brown ?
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Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tuerto
You think it's that simple? Fair enough. A question for you- you say that you hate Tories etc, what do you think you would get under a centrist party which will have obvious right wing leanings?
You're great at espousing the social aspect of your character, one that champions the most vulnerable, the needy, the destitute etc. How do you think that we've arrived at that over the past 30 years or so?
I presume that you would like to see better services, more real affordable social housing, real investment in deprived areas, better care for the plenty who are taking their own lives or sitting depressed, directly or indirectly caused through years of right wing policy, yet you promote more of the same, because you believe that basic policy which allows people to live better can never exist. Fair play sludge, like plenty of others, they've done a job on you.
I think I need to nail this into your head
I want a moderate , left of centre alternative to the tories
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Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dml1954
People don't want to be taxed ‘until the pips squeak’ any more. They want to be encouraged to go out, work hard, keep more of their own money and better themselves through their own efforts. Not lie about sponging off the state as became the norm under previous Labour Governments.
Majority of those "sponging off the state" are either pensioners or in low paid jobs. Ironically, majority of those going out to work, keeping more of their money and bettering themselves through their own efforts (i.e. the young in this unstable economy) are voting for centre-left/left parties.