I think Harris Is Acting With Dignity In A Very Difficult Situation

His post match comments are honest

The pressure and expectation put on Cardiff City managers is immense

They are loved when we are winning but so quickly turn

With a lot of our fans he just can't win , if you will pardon the pun

Maybe this job is like a poisoned chalice

And one of the reasons why he isn't being replaced

Horseshit. He's under no more pressure than any manager of what should be a playoff seeking side should be in our position.

If Harris is responsible for getting us to the playoffs last season, he's responsible for the shit show currently on offer, and it's not good.

What do I expect from the team? Firstly, I expect them to be competitive. We're not and have not been for most of the season. We have a lethargy about us. Ex players are saying the coaching is wrong, there's no motivation. Whose fault is that?

Next, I don't expect us to be fighting for promotion season after season. There are times when a team will be in transition and will struggle. Then I'd hope to see some positives, whether it be a new way of playing, or youngsters being given a go, something that makes me think the transition period will make us stronger in the seasons to come. Say, like when Toshack had the Welsh job and he got rid of Hughes's long ball game and played the youngsters. Some of the football was dire but there was a definite plan and subsequent Welsh managers benefitted from it.

Here I don't know what the plan is. My hope was a move away from Warnockball and towards a side that could pass the ball from time to time. Those things looked as if they might be happening at times last season, but this season has been mainly about hoof it up to Moore and win set pieces. That's not progression. Unfortunately those tactics don't help some of our creative players in the team.

You cannot ignore 6 defeats on the bounce. Even in some of our darkest days this was a rare occurrence. One more equals the club record. Whenever the side has had bad runs in the past, there's been a plucky draw somewhere, or a win from nowhere. Instead we don't look like getting anything.

You don't go from 5th to 15th and on such a horrible run of form without something being badly wrong. I keep hearing how this is a better squad than the one that got to the playoffs. I was hopeful of a good season, but we've had shit football served up by a bunch of half-arsed players who keep going behind in games and who only put some effort in to rescue things. There's no evolution in playing style. We look clueless and it seems to be getting worse.

Is Harris the man to turn this around? Game by game the answer to this looks less and less positive. If he isn't then he needs to go. You don't keep a manager out of loyalty or because there's no point changing manager all the time.

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

Horseshit. He's under no more pressure than any manager of what should be a playoff seeking side should be in our position.

If Harris is responsible for getting us to the playoffs last season, he's responsible for the shit show currently on offer, and it's not good.

What do I expect from the team? Firstly, I expect them to be competitive. We're not and have not been for most of the season. We have a lethargy about us. Ex players are saying the coaching is wrong, there's no motivation. Whose fault is that?

Next, I don't expect us to be fighting for promotion season after season. There are times when a team will be in transition and will struggle. Then I'd hope to see some positives, whether it be a new way of playing, or youngsters being given a go, something that makes me think the transition period will make us stronger in the seasons to come. Say, like when Toshack had the Welsh job and he got rid of Hughes's long ball game and played the youngsters. Some of the football was dire but there was a definite plan and subsequent Welsh managers benefitted from it.

Here I don't know what the plan is. My hope was a move away from Warnockball and towards a side that could pass the ball from time to time. Those things looked as if they might be happening at times last season, but this season has been mainly about hoof it up to Moore and win set pieces. That's not progression. Unfortunately those tactics don't help some of our creative players in the team.

You cannot ignore 6 defeats on the bounce. Even in some of our darkest days this was a rare occurrence. One more equals the club record. Whenever the side has had bad runs in the past, there's been a plucky draw somewhere, or a win from nowhere. Instead we don't look like getting anything.

You don't go from 5th to 15th and on such a horrible run of form without something being badly wrong. I keep hearing how this is a better squad than the one that got to the playoffs. I was hopeful of a good season, but we've had shit football served up by a bunch of half-arsed players who keep going behind in games and who only put some effort in to rescue things. There's no evolution in playing style. We look clueless and it seems to be getting worse.

Is Harris the man to turn this around? Game by game the answer to this looks less and less positive. If he isn't then he needs to go. You don't keep a manager out of loyalty or because there's no point changing manager all the time.

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There are no shoulds in football

Like any other football club things sometimes get difficult and the team hits bad patches

I think the diatribes against Harris are part of what is wrong with the modern game , players and managers used to be given time , now the boot is stuck in

In terms of his inevitable replacement its pin a tail on the donkey time as there doesn't seem to be anyone out there

I wish whoever it is the very best of luck and hope he turns things round quickly or some will soon be calling for his head

To me it sounded like pay me up as I ain't resigning.

As I said before, some of the criticism has been unfair and really shown us up as fans/local media, and I think Blake was bang on when he highlighted Dalman's top 6 comment as being really unhelpful. The first team is definitely better than last year but the squad has less depth (cost cutting) and we don't really know if it's better because so many players are untested at this level - anyone telling you the squad is top 6 has been lying to you and has heaped unrealistic expectations on this season. This in a season where, again, teams with the most depth of talent will have an advantage due to amount of football being played across a short period of time.

Harris has tried to bring through young players, he did try a more progressive system earlier in the season but was it 14 games in before we had threads on here asking when he should go? There was a distinct lack of interest in youth, change of style when the results and performances weren't as good as expected. However, we should be about 9th of 10th and we're some way off that now with no sign of anything other than more struggles going forward.

I don't disagree with anything you (Sludge) say in the OP, but a good man struggling in a bad situation will eventually need to be replaced or else everyone walks away a loser. Trouble is that if we send him packing now we've got really slim pickings for the next manager so will probably be looking for a caretaker to finish the season.

Has he tried to bring through young players? Bagan is unfairly dropped as soon as he can and others are just say on the bench.

Harris he has given game time to and that's about it.

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

There are no shoulds in football

Like any other football club things sometimes get difficult and the team hits bad patches

I think the diatribes against Harris are part of what is wrong with the modern game , players and managers used to be given time , now the boot is stuck in

In terms of his inevitable replacement its pin a tail on the donkey time as there doesn't seem to be anyone out there

I wish whoever it is the very best of luck and hope he turns things round quickly or some will soon be calling for his head

---

Anyone who believes no one wants the managers job in Cardiff is living in a dream world

Cardiff city job would be a great job in football for most managers.

I doubt Pep or Jose have Cardiff in their sights , there wont be many others who wouldn't like the job though, especially those without a job or the up and coming in the lower leagues..

Harris has had a go , he is failing . Its modern football , we sack the manager

Whilst I still think he can be the man, his time must be running out rapidly now. Previous seasons I'd have confidently said we beat barnsley, we'll be lucky to get a point next week.

Big decision but the bigger question for those calling for his head is, do you actually think the club, the board, will replace him with a better option? Harris may be guilty of leading this team on such a poor run of form with a team of players capable of competing at the top end, but the board has to take responsibility for overseeing the decay of the club internally and specifically the academy for the better part of 10 years. I suppose if we hadn't got relegated from the premier league at first chance both times these issues might not be present, but they are, because the board hasn't prepared for it.

We'll do well not to be in league one in the next 5 years if there aren't major restructures at the top of the club.

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Originally Posted by 2b2bdoo

Has he tried to bring through young players? Bagan is unfairly dropped as soon as he can and others are just say on the bench.

Harris he has given game time to and that's about it.

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He hasnt been unfairly dropped. He come in for 1 game. The captain has come back into the team for him and Bennett, the senior left back has gone back out to left back. Im fairly sure Bagan understands the situation, and the pecking order at a football club. Hes only 19, very inexperienced, he will come in and out of the side as required. He certainly hasnt been "dropped".

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Originally Posted by surge

As I said before, some of the criticism has been unfair and really shown us up as fans/local media, and I think Blake was bang on when he highlighted Dalman's top 6 comment as being really unhelpful. The first team is definitely better than last year but the squad has less depth (cost cutting) and we don't really know if it's better because so many players are untested at this level - anyone telling you the squad is top 6 has been lying to you and has heaped unrealistic expectations on this season. This in a season where, again, teams with the most depth of talent will have an advantage due to amount of football being played across a short period of time.

Harris has tried to bring through young players, he did try a more progressive system earlier in the season but was it 14 games in before we had threads on here asking when he should go? There was a distinct lack of interest in youth, change of style when the results and performances weren't as good as expected. However, we should be about 9th of 10th and we're some way off that now with no sign of anything other than more struggles going forward.

I don't disagree with anything you (Sludge) say in the OP, but a good man struggling in a bad situation will eventually need to be replaced or else everyone walks away a loser. Trouble is that if we send him packing now we've got really slim pickings for the next manager so will probably be looking for a caretaker to finish the season.

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The upshot is Cardiff fans want to play a different style and bring youngsters through but they are not prepared to wait the time its going to take to adopt such an approach.

Bellamy summed it up perfectly in his interview with Scott Johnson recently. He would want 3-5 years to change it but the fans are too impatient they want instant success.

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Originally Posted by J R Hartley

The upshot is Cardiff fans want to play a different style and bring youngsters through but they are not prepared to wait the time its going to take to adopt such an approach.

Bellamy summed it up perfectly in his interview with Scott Johnson recently. He would want 3-5 years to change it but the fans are too impatient they want instant success.

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Some fans most certainly want instant success, but most in my opinion would be patient enough to wait, as long as they could see progress and changes within the club.

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

Some fans most certainly want instant success, but most in my opinion would be patient enough to wait, as long as they could see progress and changes within the club.

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Bollocks

I have to agree with Eric The Half a Bee.

The players are not playing well individually, they seem to be all well below what we know they are capable of. The same goes for them all as a team, woeful performances. A team can have a player or tow having a poor time, but when 10 or 11 are playing well below expectation these are the results we get.

Add in Harris' team selection and recruitment and we have a problem. Ojo and Wilson add benefits to the squad, but we lost Paterson so we are really only one player better off. Add in the loss off Bogle, Ward, Connolly, and Richards and the squad becomes depleted as these were not great and a drain on resources have not fully been replaced. Then we have the injuries and illness to Osei-Tutu, Morrison, Flint, Bamba, Moore, and Tomlin and we end up seeing some kids on the bench to make up the numbers.

The lack of recruitment of a right back and a midfielder last summer has cost us dearly, While he did sign Ojo and Wilson to play out wide we already had Murphy, Hoilett and Whyte, so we ended up with 5 die players, 3 left backs and no right back. The tactics do not seem to be working, if there are indeed tactics? Players who are usually stalwarts of the team like Morrison, are way off the mark this year, We look devoid of any competence to defend, attack or play any sort of football.

A good comparison was when I watched highlights of games from last season and the contrast is stark, even more so when you see some of the highlights from the Chopra, Bothroyd, Whittingham era. Like chalk and cheese.

And last night was weird. We signed a full back and put him in and he played well apparently. And then he picks Watters to start, ahead of more experience players who normally play in that position . And when he decides to hook him, he puts Harris on. What must Holiett, Murphy and Ojo think about that? And what formation were we playing in the end? No right back, and three up front, and long balls.

It looks like the players have lost faith in the manager, as have all the fans. I did take a peek at the other board and the comments from the rabble over there are laughable, a load nonsensical tosh. We have to have a quick turn around in form and if we can doing that we might finish 9th or 10th this year, if n to we will get dragged down with the relegation strugglers. So sadly it is time for change. Harris talks a good talk but it is now clear he cannot deliver a decent footballing side when he has very good footballers in his squad. Next season will be worse when we have no parachute payment coming in a fire sale in the summer.

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

Some fans most certainly want instant success, but most in my opinion would be patient enough to wait, as long as they could see progress and changes within the club.

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Trollope would have revolutionised the way we played football. He wasn't given any time because he was going to get us relegated.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

There are no shoulds in football

Like any other football club things sometimes get difficult and the team hits bad patches

I think the diatribes against Harris are part of what is wrong with the modern game , players and managers used to be given time , now the boot is stuck in

In terms of his inevitable replacement its pin a tail on the donkey time as there doesn't seem to be anyone out there

I wish whoever it is the very best of luck and hope he turns things round quickly or some will soon be calling for his head

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I think there are quite a few things at play at the moment Sludge:

One, we are on our worst run since 1993.
Two, most fans could accept a bad run IF they saw some kind of progress on the pitch.
Three, I think we are all sick of 'pinning the tail on the donkey' and most fans don't just want a change of manager but a change of approach to football and football development at the club
Four, seeing us as one of of the least attractive footballing sides in the league is embarrassing, cumulating in the defeat to Swansea - that was a lightbulb moment for many

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Originally Posted by cardiff55

I have to agree with Eric The Half a Bee.

The players are not playing well individually, they seem to be all well below what we know they are capable of. The same goes for them all as a team, woeful performances. A team can have a player or tow having a poor time, but when 10 or 11 are playing well below expectation these are the results we get.

Add in Harris' team selection and recruitment and we have a problem. Ojo and Wilson add benefits to the squad, but we lost Paterson so we are really only one player better off. Add in the loss off Bogle, Ward, Connolly, and Richards and the squad becomes depleted as these were not great and a drain on resources have not fully been replaced. Then we have the injuries and illness to Osei-Tutu, Morrison, Flint, Bamba, Moore, and Tomlin and we end up seeing some kids on the bench to make up the numbers.

The lack of recruitment of a right back and a midfielder last summer has cost us dearly, While he did sign Ojo and Wilson to play out wide we already had Murphy, Hoilett and Whyte, so we ended up with 5 die players, 3 left backs and no right back. The tactics do not seem to be working, if there are indeed tactics? Players who are usually stalwarts of the team like Morrison, are way off the mark this year, We look devoid of any competence to defend, attack or play any sort of football.

A good comparison was when I watched highlights of games from last season and the contrast is stark, even more so when you see some of the highlights from the Chopra, Bothroyd, Whittingham era. Like chalk and cheese.

And last night was weird. We signed a full back and put him in and he played well apparently. And then he picks Watters to start, ahead of more experience players who normally play in that position . And when he decides to hook him, he puts Harris on. What must Holiett, Murphy and Ojo think about that? And what formation were we playing in the end? No right back, and three up front, and long balls.

It looks like the players have lost faith in the manager, as have all the fans. I did take a peek at the other board and the comments from the rabble over there are laughable, a load nonsensical tosh. We have to have a quick turn around in form and if we can doing that we might finish 9th or 10th this year, if n to we will get dragged down with the relegation strugglers. So sadly it is time for change. Harris talks a good talk but it is now clear he cannot deliver a decent footballing side when he has very good footballers in his squad. Next season will be worse when we have no parachute payment coming in a fire sale in the summer.

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5 dead players? No wonder we are hurtling towards relegation :hehe:

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Originally Posted by J R Hartley

The upshot is Cardiff fans want to play a different style and bring youngsters through but they are not prepared to wait the time its going to take to adopt such an approach.

Bellamy summed it up perfectly in his interview with Scott Johnson recently. He would want 3-5 years to change it but the fans are too impatient they want instant success.

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Harris is a professional and making a pretty decent wedge. And he's been in the game long enough to not worry what fans think. It's the club hierarchy that will fire him. The club and Harris have been very fortunate that the fans have been unable to vote with their feet this season. And Harris has been given time and has been able to bring in new players. Instead of improving on last season, we have regressed. If we could see where this is going it might be different. I think the players have had enough, I think Harris has had enough.

As for him being honest, if he was honest he could at least tell us what he's trying to do. Saying "I'm trying to win games, it's up to the club if they want to sack me" is factual. (and stating the obvious) It's not what I'd call honest.

Seen a screenshot on another site. Someone wanting Harris out saying the football was woeful and we didnt create a chance. Then mentions he didnt watch it.😂😂😂

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Originally Posted by Hilts

Seen a screenshot on another site. Someone wanting Harris out saying the football was woeful and we didnt create a chance. Then mentions he didnt watch it.������

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Was he also mentioning how Matondo was playing? :hehe:

In fairness, the football is woeful and we didn't create anything until we went behind, as per bloody usual.

He's going , I worry whats coming

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Originally Posted by NYCBlue

Harris is a professional and making a pretty decent wedge. And he's been in the game long enough to not worry what fans think. It's the club hierarchy that will fire him. The club and Harris have been very fortunate that the fans have been unable to vote with their feet this season. And Harris has been given time and has been able to bring in new players. Instead of improving on last season, we have regressed. If we could see where this is going it might be different. I think the players have had enough, I think Harris has had enough.

As for him being honest, if he was honest he could at least tell us what he's trying to do. Saying "I'm trying to win games, it's up to the club if they want to sack me" is factual. (and stating the obvious) It's not what I'd call honest.

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So just because its stating the obvious hes not being honest? :hehe:

What are you suggesting? That he is purposely trying to lose?

Harris may not be everyones cup of tea but one thing he isnt is false. He doesnt piss down your back and tell you its raining, unlike the man who come before him.

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

He's going , I worry whats coming

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Tony Pulis would be quite funny. The usual suspects wont have time to sharpen their knives.

Unfortunately Harris is now sounding like a broken record. I wouldn't call his ramblings dignified, just a last ditch desperate attempt to stay in a job.

Until last night, I thought it best for him to stay until the end of the season, safe in the knowledge that we would muddle through, picking up some wins and draws on the way. But, I think it's now evident that he doesn't have a cogent plan of how he can effect an upturn in results in either the short or medium term.

Unlike Warnock he is not a motivator, so coupled with his lack of tactical nous, I really don't see him being able to put a halt to this disastrous run of results.

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Originally Posted by J R Hartley

Tony Pulis would be quite funny. The usual suspects wont have time to sharpen their knives.

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Pulis would be a disaster of an option.

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Originally Posted by 2b2bdoo

Pulis would be a disaster of an option.

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Its what you and certain others deserve

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Originally Posted by cardiff55

I have to agree with Eric The Half a Bee.

The players are not playing well individually, they seem to be all well below what we know they are capable of. The same goes for them all as a team, woeful performances. A team can have a player or tow having a poor time, but when 10 or 11 are playing well below expectation these are the results we get.

Add in Harris' team selection and recruitment and we have a problem. Ojo and Wilson add benefits to the squad, but we lost Paterson so we are really only one player better off. Add in the loss off Bogle, Ward, Connolly, and Richards and the squad becomes depleted as these were not great and a drain on resources have not fully been replaced. Then we have the injuries and illness to Osei-Tutu, Morrison, Flint, Bamba, Moore, and Tomlin and we end up seeing some kids on the bench to make up the numbers.

The lack of recruitment of a right back and a midfielder last summer has cost us dearly, While he did sign Ojo and Wilson to play out wide we already had Murphy, Hoilett and Whyte, so we ended up with 5 die players, 3 left backs and no right back. The tactics do not seem to be working, if there are indeed tactics? Players who are usually stalwarts of the team like Morrison, are way off the mark this year, We look devoid of any competence to defend, attack or play any sort of football.

A good comparison was when I watched highlights of games from last season and the contrast is stark, even more so when you see some of the highlights from the Chopra, Bothroyd, Whittingham era. Like chalk and cheese.

And last night was weird. We signed a full back and put him in and he played well apparently. And then he picks Watters to start, ahead of more experience players who normally play in that position . And when he decides to hook him, he puts Harris on. What must Holiett, Murphy and Ojo think about that? And what formation were we playing in the end? No right back, and three up front, and long balls.

It looks like the players have lost faith in the manager, as have all the fans. I did take a peek at the other board and the comments from the rabble over there are laughable, a load nonsensical tosh. We have to have a quick turn around in form and if we can doing that we might finish 9th or 10th this year, if n to we will get dragged down with the relegation strugglers. So sadly it is time for change. Harris talks a good talk but it is now clear he cannot deliver a decent footballing side when he has very good footballers in his squad. Next season will be worse when we have no parachute payment coming in a fire sale in the summer.

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Feck me you've changed your tune, don't tell me you're in the Harris out camp now C55:hehe:

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Originally Posted by Whisperer

Feck me you've changed your tune, don't tell me you're in the Harris out camp now C55:hehe:

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Ill be the only one left at this rate and im considering my position. :hehe:

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Originally Posted by Jimmy the Jock

Anyone who believes no one wants the managers job in Cardiff is living in a dream world

Cardiff city job would be a great job in football for most managers.

I doubt Pep or Jose have Cardiff in their sights , there wont be many others who wouldn't like the job though, especially those without a job or the up and coming in the lower leagues..

Harris has had a go , he is failing . Its modern football , we sack the manager

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Spot on, Jimmy!

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Originally Posted by 2b2bdoo

Pulis would be a disaster of an option.

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Why?

He couldn’t be any way worse than Harris.

He’s a ‘local’ boy who used to support City, not one of the modern day mercenaries.

Plus, he has an excellent CV, and is one of the few non legendary managers, to win the Premier League manager of the season.

I’d be more than happy with that ‘disaster’ of an option.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by J R Hartley

The upshot is Cardiff fans want to play a different style and bring youngsters through but they are not prepared to wait the time its going to take to adopt such an approach.

Bellamy summed it up perfectly in his interview with Scott Johnson recently. He would want 3-5 years to change it but the fans are too impatient they want instant success.

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I agree about the time however we are not seeing the start to any plan of change.
This is basically Warnockball but with players with less motivation

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

He's going , I worry whats coming

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Can’t be worse than losing every game

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Originally Posted by J R Hartley

Its what you and certain others deserve

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It’s not what most people want. I think you seem to be making the argument that Harris should stay because the board are likely to make another clueless appointment. ?
If that is true the club are in far more trouble than I originally thought.

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Originally Posted by DubaiDai

It’s not what most people want. I think you seem to be making the argument that Harris should stay because the board are likely to make another clueless appointment. ?
If that is true the club are in far more trouble than I originally thought.

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Nope thats not my argument, although I wouldnt trust them to make a decent appointment.

I think its evident we are at a point where Harris has to go now. I just think those that never gave him a chance in the first place cant piss and whinge about the next manager - youve got what you wanted.

We cant keep changing managers every 5 minutes so if it is someone like Tony Pulis suck it the **** up.

Everything we’ve criticised him for not doing, he’s gone and done.

Tried different formations brought in youth.

He needs time. Give him until the end of the season.

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Originally Posted by J R Hartley

So just because its stating the obvious hes not being honest? :hehe:

What are you suggesting? That he is purposely trying to lose?

Harris may not be everyones cup of tea but one thing he isnt is false. He doesnt piss down your back and tell you its raining, unlike the man who come before him.

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I'm saying that not telling lies about what is in plain sight doesn't earn him the label of being honest or dignified. I don't think he's trying lose. I'm beginning to think he may have given up though. I am not asking you specifically, but does anyone have any idea what's going on? Is it the players? Is it the manager? Is it both? How did it get to this?

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Originally Posted by NYCBlue

I'm saying that not telling lies about what is in plain sight doesn't earn him the label of being honest or dignified. I don't think he's trying lose. I'm beginning to think he may have given up though. I am not asking you specifically, but does anyone have any idea what's going on? Is it the players? Is it the manager? Is it both? How did it get to this?

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He looks and sounds as if he's had enough in my opinion. I don't blame him for hanging it out though.

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

He looks and sounds as if he's had enough in my opinion. I don't blame him for hanging it out though.

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After last night there was a definite change. He's been very prickly before when asked about his future, last night he almost accepted it was a matter of time.

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Originally Posted by Jimmy the Jock

Trollope would have revolutionised the way we played football. He wasn't given any time because he was going to get us relegated.

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Quite true. Trollope is the only manager since Gould etc who I wanted out. We were clearly going down that year, it was horrendous. This year is nowhere near that bad. Having said that, it is not good at all and the other thread about where it was going wrong was spot on. Harris can’t prevent the opposition goalie playing a blinder but he CAN insist his players pass the ball, run off the ball and press hard - none of which is happening.

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Originally Posted by Dave Blue

Quite true. Trollope is the only manager since Gould etc who I wanted out. We were clearly going down that year, it was horrendous. This year is nowhere near that bad. Having said that, it is not good at all and the other thread about where it was going wrong was spot on. Harris can’t prevent the opposition goalie playing a blinder but he CAN insist his players pass the ball, run off the ball and press hard - none of which is happening.

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Trollope's record over his last 7 games was W1 L6. Same as Harris'.