Police Surveillance

OK, so this post isn't directly football-related but I wanted more people to read it than the small number of conspiracy posters on the Alternative Forum - and in this case I believe that there is indeed something to be concerned about regarding Police surveillance.

Leaving Cardiff Central yesterday, I saw a clutch of several hundred demonstrators protesting about the situation in Palestine. The protestors were on the paved area outside the station but about 30 to 40 yards away from where passengers would spill out from the station entrance (which was closed off probably due to the demonstration and were were all herded to the rear exit on arrival).

I walked past the demonstration and decided to observe it from about 15 to 20 metres away and in an area where no-one was standing. I was clearly not actively involved in the stationary demo. To my left and about 10 years away was a policeman filming the demo, with the camera being pointed in the same way as I was looking.
He suddenly caught sight of me observing him out of the corner of his eye and turned the camera 90 degrees to his right and was obviously filming me.

I'm someone who isn't anti-Police and law-abiding but I considered his actions to be intrusive, invasive and the actions of a Police State.

I approached him and asked him assertively as to why he was filming me and he just kept saying, sneeringly, that he was entitled to do so - whereupon a very tall policeman stood directly in front of me as a buffer.

For my part, I think it's akin to Putin's Russia and have made a formal complaint to the Police, not that it will do a lot of good.

Embrace your World
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Checkpoints are everywhere in China's 15-minute cities.<br><br>Even grocery shopping at the wet (farmer) markets requires you to verify your vaccine passport with a QR code &amp; face scan. <a href="https://t.co/8X0CocpChH">https://t.co/8X0CocpChH</a> <a href="https://t.co/gFRIBfYcef">pic.twitter.com/gFRIBfYcef</a></p>&mdash; Songpinganq (@songpinganq) <a href="https://twitter.com/songpinganq/status/1761726207350169616?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 25, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

OK, so this post isn't directly football-related but I wanted more people to read it than the small number of conspiracy posters on the Alternative Forum - and in this case I believe that there is indeed something to be concerned about regarding Police surveillance.

Leaving Cardiff Central yesterday, I saw a clutch of several hundred demonstrators protesting about the situation in Palestine. The protestors were on the paved area outside the station but about 30 to 40 yards away from where passengers would spill out from the station entrance (which was closed off probably due to the demonstration and were were all herded to the rear exit on arrival).

I walked past the demonstration and decided to observe it from about 15 to 20 metres away and in an area where no-one was standing. I was clearly not actively involved in the stationary demo. To my left and about 10 years away was a policeman filming the demo, with the camera being pointed in the same way as I was looking.
He suddenly caught sight of me observing him out of the corner of his eye and turned the camera 90 degrees to his right and was obviously filming me.

I'm someone who isn't anti-Police and law-abiding but I considered his actions to be intrusive, invasive and the actions of a Police State.

I approached him and asked him assertively as to why he was filming me and he just kept saying, sneeringly, that he was entitled to do so - whereupon a very tall policeman stood directly in front of me as a buffer.

For my part, I think it's akin to Putin's Russia and have made a formal complaint to the Police, not that it will do a lot of good.

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All very standard stuff these days with demonstrations and here are some facts regarding CCTV cameras in the UK

Research by Clarion Security Systems estimates that there are over 7,371,903 CCTV cameras in the UK, meaning there is 1 CCTV camera for every 11 people in the UK. You are likely to be captured on UK CCTV up to 70 times per day. (2022)

i think you mean akin to china !

It's standard practice for anyone. Freedom of the press and all that. I would have thought that the Conspiracy theorists wouldn't mind things being filmed in public, after all, they want the truth, right? or does that only apply for 'their' truth :hehe: The issue is obviously the police abusing the right to film in public, as is the case with anyone looking for 'Truth' There's some irony with this one...

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

It's standard practice for anyone. Freedom of the press and all that. I would have thought that the Conspiracy theorists wouldn't mind things being filmed in public, after all, they want the truth, right? or does that only apply for 'their' truth :hehe: The issue is obviously the police abusing the right to film in public, as is the case with anyone looking for 'Truth' There's some irony with this one...

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Here you go with your lazy “conspiracy theorists “ terminology, can’t you be more objective, and as an aside can you offer examples of where most of the conspiracy theories that were written about are unfounded?

As an aside , nowt wrong with being filmed , so that will no doubt confuse you.

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Originally Posted by TWGL1

Here you go with your lazy “conspiracy theorists “ terminology, can’t you be more objective, and as an aside can you offer examples of where most of the conspiracy theories that were written about are unfounded?

As an aside , nowt wrong with being filmed , so that will no doubt confuse you.

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It's written in Law. If filming wasn't allowed in public, then there would be no freedom of press, and we wouldn't see what is really going on in world. I've got my finger on the pulse :thumbup:

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

OK, so this post isn't directly football-related but I wanted more people to read it than the small number of conspiracy posters on the Alternative Forum - and in this case I believe that there is indeed something to be concerned about regarding Police surveillance.

Leaving Cardiff Central yesterday, I saw a clutch of several hundred demonstrators protesting about the situation in Palestine. The protestors were on the paved area outside the station but about 30 to 40 yards away from where passengers would spill out from the station entrance (which was closed off probably due to the demonstration and were were all herded to the rear exit on arrival).

I walked past the demonstration and decided to observe it from about 15 to 20 metres away and in an area where no-one was standing. I was clearly not actively involved in the stationary demo. To my left and about 10 years away was a policeman filming the demo, with the camera being pointed in the same way as I was looking.
He suddenly caught sight of me observing him out of the corner of his eye and turned the camera 90 degrees to his right and was obviously filming me.

I'm someone who isn't anti-Police and law-abiding but I considered his actions to be intrusive, invasive and the actions of a Police State.

I approached him and asked him assertively as to why he was filming me and he just kept saying, sneeringly, that he was entitled to do so - whereupon a very tall policeman stood directly in front of me as a buffer.

For my part, I think it's akin to Putin's Russia and have made a formal complaint to the Police, not that it will do a lot of good.

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Previously I would have said why worry about CCTV if you haven't done anything wrong. However with the advent of AI and fake images it seems to me anyone could be at risk. Welcome to our brave new world.

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Originally Posted by Gofer Blue

Previously I would have said why worry about CCTV if you haven't done anything wrong. However with the advent of AI and fake images it seems to me anyone could be at risk. Welcome to our brave new world.

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I wouldn't worry about Police doing their jobs, have a quick google search for "pimeyes".
Will find any image of any person searched, as long as its been uploaded to the internet...

the law is quite simple here, if you are in a public place you have no right to not be filmed.

saying that the police can only act within their powers, and they can only film you if they have good cause i.e. they suspect you to be a nefarious snide up to no good.

Do you remember the case of the man who took the Police to court for filming him on Queen street and using their facial recognition - it went to court.
Link is here https://www.libertyhumanrights.org.u...uality%20laws.

The Police lost the case and were told to stop - I think they appealed - not sure what happened after that. I think they argued that there was enough legal framework to protect his rights.
There is also (I believe) nothing to stop them filming and then processing the video through facial recognition. They will argue it can be used to catch known criminals, terrorists etc).
On a personal level there is nothing to stop anyone from filming anyone else in a public space

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

I approached him and asked him assertively as to why he was filming me and he just kept saying, sneeringly, that he was entitled to do so - whereupon a very tall policeman stood directly in front of me as a buffer.

For my part, I think it's akin to Putin's Russia and have made a formal complaint to the Police, not that it will do a lot of good.

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It is dangerous step towards a police state....the same as facial recognition that seems to be increasing. The question is WHAT do they do with the data? I wonder what the reaction would be (I think I can guess)...if a member of the public reciprocated and started filing the police filming them...after all....they too are in a public place....

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Originally Posted by Maurice Swan

It is dangerous step towards a police state....the same as facial recognition that seems to be increasing. The question is WHAT do they do with the data? I wonder what the reaction would be (I think I can guess)...if a member of the public reciprocated and started filing the police filming them...after all....they too are in a public place....

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Don’t we already live in a police state?

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

OK, so this post isn't directly football-related but I wanted more people to read it than the small number of conspiracy posters on the Alternative Forum - and in this case I believe that there is indeed something to be concerned about regarding Police surveillance.

Leaving Cardiff Central yesterday, I saw a clutch of several hundred demonstrators protesting about the situation in Palestine. The protestors were on the paved area outside the station but about 30 to 40 yards away from where passengers would spill out from the station entrance (which was closed off probably due to the demonstration and were were all herded to the rear exit on arrival).

I walked past the demonstration and decided to observe it from about 15 to 20 metres away and in an area where no-one was standing. I was clearly not actively involved in the stationary demo. To my left and about 10 years away was a policeman filming the demo, with the camera being pointed in the same way as I was looking.
He suddenly caught sight of me observing him out of the corner of his eye and turned the camera 90 degrees to his right and was obviously filming me.

I'm someone who isn't anti-Police and law-abiding but I considered his actions to be intrusive, invasive and the actions of a Police State.

I approached him and asked him assertively as to why he was filming me and he just kept saying, sneeringly, that he was entitled to do so - whereupon a very tall policeman stood directly in front of me as a buffer.

For my part, I think it's akin to Putin's Russia and have made a formal complaint to the Police, not that it will do a lot of good.

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Where do you begin ? This so-called 'policing' has increasingly become what seems to be the main role of our modern police force - literally to 'police' the general public rather than serve them.It's an insidious encroachment into peoples' lives.

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Originally Posted by Heathblue

Embrace your World
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Checkpoints are everywhere in China's 15-minute cities.<br><br>Even grocery shopping at the wet (farmer) markets requires you to verify your vaccine passport with a QR code & face scan. <a href="https://t.co/8X0CocpChH">https://t.co/8X0CocpChH</a> <a href="https://t.co/gFRIBfYcef">pic.twitter.com/gFRIBfYcef</a></p>— Songpinganq (@songpinganq) <a href="https://twitter.com/songpinganq/status/1761726207350169616?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 25, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

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China has for many years kept a high level of control over its citizens, people are supposed to inform the police if they travel to a different city - cameras monitor where cars are moving about etc
And they did implement some very strict covid measures.

However I don't recognise some of the statements above at all
"most chinese people are living in 15 minute cities" that seems like total bollocks to me, having recently been there for work.

Unless by 15 minute cities you mean that most people live within 15 minutes of all the amenities that they are likely to need - which is true of almost anyone living in big cities.

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Originally Posted by Rjk

China has for many years kept a high level of control over its citizens, people are supposed to inform the police if they travel to a different city - cameras monitor where cars are moving about etc
And they did implement some very strict covid measures.

However I don't recognise some of the statements above at all
"most chinese people are living in 15 minute cities" that seems like total bollocks to me, having recently been there for work.

Unless by 15 minute cities you mean that most people live within 15 minutes of all the amenities that they are likely to need - which is true of almost anyone living in big cities.

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And they did implement some very strict covid measures.

So did we :hehe:

See my reply in the Nostalgia thread...unless it's been moved....in which case it could be anywhere.

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Originally Posted by Citizen's Nephew

See my reply in the Nostalgia thread...unless it's been moved....in which case it could be anywhere.

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The Police moved it, I'm sure :-)

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

The Police moved it, I'm sure :-)

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Nothing to see here.

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Originally Posted by Rjk

China has for many years kept a high level of control over its citizens, people are supposed to inform the police if they travel to a different city - cameras monitor where cars are moving about etc
And they did implement some very strict covid measures.

However I don't recognise some of the statements above at all
"most chinese people are living in 15 minute cities" that seems like total bollocks to me, having recently been there for work.

Unless by 15 minute cities you mean that most people live within 15 minutes of all the amenities that they are likely to need - which is true of almost anyone living in big cities.

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This documentary on China's use of AI in surveillance is interesting but depressing.

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

This documentary on China's use of AI in surveillance is interesting but depressing.

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which documentary?

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

OK, so this post isn't directly football-related but I wanted more people to read it than the small number of conspiracy posters on the Alternative Forum - and in this case I believe that there is indeed something to be concerned about regarding Police surveillance.

Leaving Cardiff Central yesterday, I saw a clutch of several hundred demonstrators protesting about the situation in Palestine. The protestors were on the paved area outside the station but about 30 to 40 yards away from where passengers would spill out from the station entrance (which was closed off probably due to the demonstration and were were all herded to the rear exit on arrival).

I walked past the demonstration and decided to observe it from about 15 to 20 metres away and in an area where no-one was standing. I was clearly not actively involved in the stationary demo. To my left and about 10 years away was a policeman filming the demo, with the camera being pointed in the same way as I was looking.
He suddenly caught sight of me observing him out of the corner of his eye and turned the camera 90 degrees to his right and was obviously filming me.

I'm someone who isn't anti-Police and law-abiding but I considered his actions to be intrusive, invasive and the actions of a Police State.

I approached him and asked him assertively as to why he was filming me and he just kept saying, sneeringly, that he was entitled to do so - whereupon a very tall policeman stood directly in front of me as a buffer.

For my part, I think it's akin to Putin's Russia and have made a formal complaint to the Police, not that it will do a lot of good.

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Good on you for complaining, although I suspect it won't get you far, if nothing else, if you were unhappy with their attitude it is worth an email.

FWIW I would feel the same. I do think given the real and perceived threat from some marches it is reasonable to film those surrounding the event for a short period. For example, you may have been planning an attack on them, or they you at this or a future event. So recording who generally is present seems reasonable. But that takes seconds. Perpetually recording you sounds over the top and I also would have been annoyed and I like to think my response would have been the same.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Good on you for complaining, although I suspect it won't get you far, if nothing else, if you were unhappy with their attitude it is worth an email.

FWIW I would feel the same. I do think given the real and perceived threat from some marches it is reasonable to film those surrounding the event for a short period. For example, you may have been planning an attack on them, or they you at this or a future event. So recording who generally is present seems reasonable. But that takes seconds. Perpetually recording you sounds over the top and I also would have been annoyed and I like to think my response would have been the same.

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I have received a response from the Police and stating that they would be investigating the matter officially.

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

I have received a response from the Police and stating that they would be investigating the matter officially.

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That's good. Let us know how that goes.
A Chinese young man in Cardiff gave me some details on their citizen score system back home together with their 'uber' equivalent app in China which moniters your conversation with the driver. If you or the driver venture into conversation that's unwanted by the government, then you immediately receive a verbal interjection via the app, and your scores are marked down accordingly.

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Originally Posted by Dembe

I wouldn't worry about Police doing their jobs, have a quick google search for "pimeyes".
Will find any image of any person searched, as long as its been uploaded to the internet...

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Anyone looked into this app yet?

It seems that the written complaint I made to the Police (and which both parties have access to) has taken a new turn - in that the they have copied me into their internal report in which they summed up my complaint with a false synopsis i.e. they stated that I considered the filming of the protest illegal, which I never stated.
As my complaint is in black and white and wasn't verbal at any stage I'll await with interest their response to me challenging them on that false statement.

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

It seems that the written complaint I made to the Police (and which both parties have access to) has taken a new turn - in that the they have copied me into their internal report in which they summed up my complaint with a false synopsis i.e. they stated that I considered the filming of the protest illegal, which I never stated.
As my complaint is in black and white and wasn't verbal at any stage I'll await with interest their response to me challenging them on that false statement.

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Their attempt to manipulate your words speaks volumes, shades of South Yorkshire Police.

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Originally Posted by truthpaste

Their attempt to manipulate your words speaks volumes, shades of South Yorkshire Police.

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Irony alert.

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

Irony alert.

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Michael Gove will now place all Genies on the new extremist list. No matter their colour or place of residence. You’ve poked the hornets nest TBG.

Is this the right thread this time nurse?

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Originally Posted by Citizen's Nephew

Michael Gove will now place all Genies on the new extremist list. No matter their colour or place of residence. You’ve poked the hornets nest TBG.

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Howdy, old fruit. I'm having a battle with a semi-illiterate Police investigator who can't construct a sentence properly and who refuses to refer to my original complain rather than the fabricated and incorrect one that one of his colleagues submitted to him. It's a bloody circus. I have therefore demanded that the complaint go to an ombudsman or similar - as the Police effectively investigated (and have now dismissed) their own fabricated version. He has refused to accept a second complaint about the latter but I'm not letting that go either.

You couldn't make it but...... but they do, apparently.

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

Howdy, old fruit. I'm having a battle with a semi-illiterate Police investigator who can't construct a sentence properly and who refuses to refer to my original complain rather than the fabricated and incorrect one that one of his colleagues submitted to him. It's a bloody circus. I have therefore demanded that the complaint go to an ombudsman or similar - as the Police effectively investigated (and have now dismissed) their own fabricated version. He has refused to accept a second complaint about the latter but I'm not letting that go either.

You couldn't make it but...... but they do, apparently.

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Howdy. It doesn't surprise me at all. The more I read of examples like yours, the more it reminds me of Terry Gilliam's; Brazil. If you haven't seen it then I'd recommend it. It won't solve your problem I'm afraid.

I'm choosing my battles very carefully these days so they don't consume too much energy/time....both are precious.

Science Fiction has an uncanny way of predicting the future.

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Originally Posted by Citizen's Nephew

Howdy. It doesn't surprise me at all. The more I read of examples like yours, the more it reminds me of Terry Gilliam's; Brazil. If you haven't seen it then I'd recommend it. It won't solve your problem I'm afraid.

I'm choosing my battles very carefully these days so they don't consume too much energy/time....both are precious.

Science Fiction has an uncanny way of predicting the future.

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It's all very Kafkaesque.

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Originally Posted by Citizen's Nephew

Howdy. It doesn't surprise me at all. The more I read of examples like yours, the more it reminds me of Terry Gilliam's; Brazil. If you haven't seen it then I'd recommend it. It won't solve your problem I'm afraid.

I'm choosing my battles very carefully these days so they don't consume too much energy/time....both are precious.

Science Fiction has an uncanny way of predicting the future.

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The Origins of Totalitarianism is a fun read.

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

It's all very Kafkaesque.

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:thumbup:

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Originally Posted by Wales-Bales

The Origins of Totalitarianism is a fun read.

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:thumbup:

I'd watch the musical!. Seriously though, I'm trying to confine my reading to lighter stuff these days. This message board is a rabbit hole I struggle with enough.