The Warnock Paradox

Football-wise I think Fulham and even Huddersfield have overall better players, play better football, and look more comfortable at this level compared to us. That City are 17pts and 5 pts above these teams says so much for the way Warnock has tactically and psychologically bonded this group of players into a strong unit where the whole is greater greater than the sum of the parts.

What I didn't expect was his mis-management of our attacking selection options over the past few games. An over-reliance on Niasse, at the exclusion of fit-again and much more dangerous Zohore. The exclusion of Ward, who what little we have seen of him offers something different. The sidelining of Bobby Reid - again a player who offers something different. And the inclusion of Rhys Healey who would be slow by league 2 standards.

Maybe the omission of Murphy for not training well says how much reliance Warnock places on match preparation etc, but Healey for Murphy ? You've got to be joking.

Trouble is, next season in the Championship is going to be so hard, with a dozen strong footballing sides, this squad of players will either need a revitalized Warnock, or a complete change of direction..

Huddersfield and Fulham dont have better players.

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Originally Posted by Hilts

Huddersfield and Fulham dont have better players.

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More Fulham players would get into our squad than ours would get into theirs. Fact.

Fulham have better players on paper but they simply have not performed in any level close to what they should. They, for me, are the disaster story of the season.

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Originally Posted by A Quiet Monkfish

Football-wise I think Fulham and even Huddersfield have overall better players, play better football, and look more comfortable at this level compared to us. That City are 17pts and 5 pts above these teams says so much for the way Warnock has tactically and psychologically bonded this group of players into a strong unit where the whole is greater greater than the sum of the parts.

What I didn't expect was his mis-management of our attacking selection options over the past few games. An over-reliance on Niasse, at the exclusion of fit-again and much more dangerous Zohore. The exclusion of Ward, who what little we have seen of him offers something different. The sidelining of Bobby Reid - again a player who offers something different. And the inclusion of Rhys Healey who would be slow by league 2 standards.

Maybe the omission of Murphy for not training well says how much reliance Warnock places on match preparation etc, but Healey for Murphy ? You've got to be joking.

Trouble is, next season in the Championship is going to be so hard, with a dozen strong footballing sides, this squad of players will either need a revitalized Warnock, or a complete change of direction..

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It is a paradox. The one thing I think we can be pretty certain of is that it'll be more of the same next season if Neil Warnock is our manager and it is a formula that has been proven to be successful in the Championship, but important players in our squad are not getting any younger and we are going to have to completely rebuild our midfield whoever our manager is.

It seems to me that at the heart of the Warnock managerial philosophy is the notion that an honest grafter can give you more than someone who relies more on skill and flair. Using the example you talk about, I think our manager would like Rhys Healey's competitive edge to the extent that he would believe that this would overcome the limitations you mention (I think he could make a decent League One player, so it seems I rate him a bit higher than you).

The point is though that Healey's attitude in no way makes him a Premier League quality player and I couldn't see him getting close to the first team squad at any other club in this division. As you say, the notion of Healey being selected above Josh Murphy is laughable, as is the idea of him coming on before Bobby Decordova-Reid today.

I find Warnock's words today regarding Murphy inexplicable. For me one of our manager's strengths is the way he can create a good team spirit, but those comments suggest to me that all is not well in that direction and if Neil Warnock starts to lose that part of his skill set, then he becomes more dispensable.

To not select one of the two players we paid a substantial fee for last summer at all and to leave the other one on the bench until the dying minutes while lesser talents get on before him, has to be seen as an admission of defeat by Neil Warnock - he signed those players and, like too many others he has signed, they have spent much of the season out of the starting eleven.

The more I think about the more I'm coming around to thinking we need a complete change of direction.

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Originally Posted by William Treseder

More Fulham players would get into our squad than ours would get into theirs. Fact.

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Fact. Look at the league table. This and last years.

Neil Warnock is the Darren Huckerby of management. Excellent in the Championship and poor in the top flight.

I think the modern game and modern players are leaving him behind.

There is no room in football for sentiment. Football has moved on from the Warnock's of this world. As a club we need new and fresh direction. We did exceptional getting up last year would we be able to repeat with the same tactics I would suggest no. I respect what Warnock has done for us but i just feel these last few games his selections etc have been baffling. To stand in his post match interview and churn out the same rubbish he always does speaks volume. Its time for the club to take a different direction,there are the coaches out there just look at the improvement in Southampton since the guy with the name i am not even going to attempt took over, look at Wolves ,look at Norwich. We cannot compete having uncer 30% possession each time. Before i finish please can someone answer this , who told city Niasse was a striker. I have never seen a "striker" so clueless .

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

It is a paradox. The one thing I think we can be pretty certain of is that it'll be more of the same next season if Neil Warnock is our manager and it is a formula that has been proven to be successful in the Championship, .

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But not enough in the PL, which is where you end up if you get promoted.

Actually, I think if given the funds NW could keep a team in the PL but I think that’s about the extent of his powers.

If you have any long term ambitions to stay in the topflight you have to be thinking deeper than NW. He’s too quick fix. Same goes for most of those old school shouty english managers. Football has moved on (fortunately)

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Originally Posted by hueypianosmith

There is no room in football for sentiment. Football has moved on from the Warnock's of this world. As a club we need new and fresh direction. We did exceptional getting up last year would we be able to repeat with the same tactics I would suggest no. I respect what Warnock has done for us but i just feel these last few games his selections etc have been baffling. To stand in his post match interview and churn out the same rubbish he always does speaks volume. Its time for the club to take a different direction,there are the coaches out there just look at the improvement in Southampton since the guy with the name i am not even going to attempt took over, look at Wolves ,look at Norwich. We cannot compete having uncer 30% possession each time. Before i finish please can someone answer this , who told city Niasse was a striker. I have never seen a "striker" so clueless .

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Has it moved on that much in 12 months? This time last year we were singing his wife's name and marvelling at the way he got us out of the championship. I thought given the title of this thread this would be about having a manager that has a record of working miracles in second tier but struggles once we're successful. I agree it would be good to have a more progressive, expansive style but it's not a given we'll get one with a younger manager.

The players have now got into the habit of losing lots of matches under Warnock. That wasn't the case for the previous seasons with him in the Championship and it's not going to be easy to break that habit.

It has yes, look at managers like Pullis at Boro struggling to make playoffs, managers like allardyce and moyes don't even get considered for jobs anymore, Mark Hughes is another. The premier league has changed as well the big teams rarely lose to the lesser teams now. Warnock performed wonders to get us up but is totally out of his depth in this league. As a club, I think it is pointless to have another Warnock season and then he retires, time for a change now so we can rebuild now.

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Originally Posted by hueypianosmith

It has yes, look at managers like Pullis at Boro struggling to make playoffs, managers like allardyce and moyes don't even get considered for jobs anymore, Mark Hughes is another. The premier league has changed as well the big teams rarely lose to the lesser teams now. Warnock performed wonders to get us up but is totally out of his depth in this league. As a club, I think it is pointless to have another Warnock season and then he retires, time for a change now so we can rebuild now.

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I agree. We have had a wonderful ride and Warnock has done wonders. However, we need to move on.

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Originally Posted by A Quiet Monkfish

Football-wise I think Fulham and even Huddersfield have overall better players, play better football, and look more comfortable at this level compared to us. That City are 17pts and 5 pts above these teams says so much for the way Warnock has tactically and psychologically bonded this group of players into a strong unit where the whole is greater greater than the sum of the parts.

What I didn't expect was his mis-management of our attacking selection options over the past few games. An over-reliance on Niasse, at the exclusion of fit-again and much more dangerous Zohore. The exclusion of Ward, who what little we have seen of him offers something different. The sidelining of Bobby Reid - again a player who offers something different. And the inclusion of Rhys Healey who would be slow by league 2 standards.

Maybe the omission of Murphy for not training well says how much reliance Warnock places on match preparation etc, but Healey for Murphy ? You've got to be joking.

Trouble is, next season in the Championship is going to be so hard, with a dozen strong footballing sides, this squad of players will either need a revitalized Warnock, or a complete change of direction..

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Summed up nicely. I don't think even Pep could have got more out of your players this year and you've had some dreadful luck and poor decisions. If Neil is up for another crack at it next season I'd hang on to him, but is he up for the fight and the ups and downs?

I think VT is not going anywhere and still believes in The Bluebirds. Unlike our lot who are carpetbaggers who want to asset strip and bugger off. I've done a TLG and resolved not to give the twisters any of my money.

Good luck next season.

I would be very surprised if he doesn't announce his retirement before the Manchester United game, or a few days after the season ends. I've seen nothing to suggest that he intends to stick around and has gone down on record as saying that this may be his last job.

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

I agree. We have had a wonderful ride and Warnock has done wonders. However, we need to move on.

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Moving on isn't going to be straight forward though. I think it would take a complete change of direction and 3 seasons to challenge again at the top of the Championship. Hopefully our owner[s] will see that attendances averaging 32,000 will confirm the potential to stay in the top flight - if we ever get there again..

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Originally Posted by A Quiet Monkfish

Moving on isn't going to be straight forward though. I think it would take a complete change of direction and 3 seasons to challenge again at the top of the Championship. Hopefully our owner[s] will see that attendances averaging 32,000 will confirm the potential to stay in the top flight - if we ever get there again..

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True. We need a fundamental transformation.

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Originally Posted by William Treseder

More Fulham players would get into our squad than ours would get into theirs. Fact.

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Put tne Cardiff defence into tne Fulham side, and this team easily stays up,

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Originally Posted by ZZ Jack

Summed up nicely. I don't think even Pep could have got more out of your players this year and you've had some dreadful luck and poor decisions. If Neil is up for another crack at it next season I'd hang on to him, but is he up for the fight and the ups and downs?

I think VT is not going anywhere and still believes in The Bluebirds. Unlike our lot who are carpetbaggers who want to asset strip and bugger off. I've done a TLG and resolved not to give the twisters any of my money.

Good luck next season.

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I think that needs to be reassessed after yesterday when Neil Warnock decided to drop one of the most expensive players the club has ever bought from what was the weakest eighteen we've fielded all season because, we are told, of his attitude in training. We paid almost as much for Bobby Decordova-Reid who our manager deemed not good enough to come on yesterday before someone who was on loan to a Fourth Division club before Christmas and, while he was certainly able to get the best out of Kenneth Zohore two years ago, he has been unable to do so since then.

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Originally Posted by Harry Paget Flashman

Neil Warnock is the Darren Huckerby of management. Excellent in the Championship and poor in the top flight.

I think the modern game and modern players are leaving him behind.

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Think he’s just not so great spending big bucks, he bought Reid and Murphy and doesn’t play them? He bought madine the season before and tomlin.....good with frees and cheap lower leagues etc...all be very good for next season in the championship mind, as will Neil.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

I think that needs to be reassessed after yesterday when Neil Warnock decided to drop one of the most expensive players the club has ever bought from what was the weakest eighteen we've fielded all season because, we are told, of his attitude in training. We paid almost as much for Bobby Decordova-Reid who our manager deemed not good enough to come on yesterday before someone who was on loan to a Fourth Division club before Christmas and, while he was certainly able to get the best out of Kenneth Zohore two years ago, he has been unable to do so since then.

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I’m not surprised bobby is a bit peed off, he’s done well and looked lively when in the pitch which is what we need and why Neil bought him. I’d like Neil to stay but with someone like bellers alongside with a plan for the future. Hearing good things about our young guns who like to keep the ball and play through. We have a great chance to bounce back next year so let’s get behind this great group of players we have.

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Originally Posted by B. Oddie

I would be very surprised if he doesn't announce his retirement before the Manchester United game, or a few days after the season ends. I've seen nothing to suggest that he intends to stick around and has gone down on record as saying that this may be his last job.

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He said just a few weeks ago that he would stay until the end of his contract unless Vincent Tan decides otherwise.

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Originally Posted by A Quiet Monkfish

Moving on isn't going to be straight forward though. I think it would take a complete change of direction and 3 seasons to challenge again at the top of the Championship. Hopefully our owner[s] will see that attendances averaging 32,000 will confirm the potential to stay in the top flight - if we ever get there again..

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Matchday attendance figures mean nothing in the Premier League. Bournemouth have established themselves in the division with average crowds of just over 10,000.

We aren't going to be a top flight club until we get player recruitment sorted. Warnock has taken most of the blame for wasting money over the last few seasons, but I think the problem goes beyond him.

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Originally Posted by A Quiet Monkfish

Moving on isn't going to be straight forward though. I think it would take a complete change of direction and 3 seasons to challenge again at the top of the Championship. Hopefully our owner[s] will see that attendances averaging 32,000 will confirm the potential to stay in the top flight - if we ever get there again..

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At the same time, if your are to move on, doing so in the same summer as you need to sign 3 new centre midfielders and a centre forward may make sense?

If Warnock was to stay for just 1 more year, the new manager in 12 months time would be stuck with 3 centre midfielders Warnock chose (and Bacuna) ond long term contracts. Given Warnock's style, they'd be unlikely to be what the new manager would want.

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Originally Posted by LeningradCowboy

Matchday attendance figures mean nothing in the Premier League. Bournemouth have established themselves in the division with average crowds of just over 10,000.

We aren't going to be a top flight club until we get player recruitment sorted. Warnock has taken most of the blame for wasting money over the last few seasons, but I think the problem goes beyond him.

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I guess Norwich will do more with their £20m promotion budget than us and Fulham combined..

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Originally Posted by Ger27

At the same time, if your are to move on, doing so in the same summer as you need to sign 3 new centre midfielders and a centre forward may make sense?

If Warnock was to stay for just 1 more year, the new manager in 12 months time would be stuck with 3 centre midfielders Warnock chose (and Bacuna) ond long term contracts. Given Warnock's style, they'd be unlikely to be what the new manager would want.

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With Warnock in charge next season I reckon there's a 2/1 chance we'd reach the play offs. If we opt for a new manager, a new approach, a new style, it will take 3 seasons at least, in my opinion..

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Originally Posted by A Quiet Monkfish

With Warnock in charge next season I reckon there's a 2/1 chance we'd reach the play offs. If we opt for a new manager, a new approach, a new style, it will take 3 seasons at least, in my opinion..

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So you reckon 1 in 12 chance of us getting getting promoted through the play-offs with Warnock next year. Do we take those odds, or start rebuilding now whilst the parachute payment is at its highest and there's a load of new signings needed anyway...

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Originally Posted by LeningradCowboy

He said just a few weeks ago that he would stay until the end of his contract unless Vincent Tan decides otherwise.

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I didn't know that. I thought his contract was ending at the end of this season.

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Originally Posted by A Quiet Monkfish

With Warnock in charge next season I reckon there's a 2/1 chance we'd reach the play offs. If we opt for a new manager, a new approach, a new style, it will take 3 seasons at least, in my opinion..

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I'd rather take 3 seasons and change the philosophy at the club. I'll always be grateful to Neil. And I'll never forget that Aston Villa game. It was sublime. But this season has been miserable and completely and utterly mismanaged from start to finish.