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Entertainment or promotion?
Apologies to those on phones who probably can't see the poll.
One of the more regular debates on here in recent times has been about the quality of football, with reminiscences about the Dave Jones era being quite common.
So, over to you. Would you rather be entertained as we were (sometimes) under Dave Jones, or would you rather win promotion under Malky or Warnock?
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Re: Entertainment or promotion?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric the Half a Bee
Apologies to those on phones who probably can't see the poll.
One of the more regular debates on here in recent times has been about the quality of football, with reminiscences about the Dave Jones era being quite common.
So, over to you. Would you rather be entertained as we were (sometimes) under Dave Jones, or would you rather win promotion under Malky or Warnock?
So much depends on the timing with this question. If you'd have asked it ten years ago, I would definitely have voted for promotion because our side then could be very entertaining, but couldn't take the final step to promotion, but having now experienced two promotions and found that I don't like us being in that division as much as I thought I would (of course, I'd probably think differently if we were able to establish ourselves at that level for a while) and became completely bored and frustrated by the way we've played the game for the last six or seven years, I have now voted entertainment.
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Re: Entertainment or promotion?
Do they have to be mutually exclusive?
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Re: Entertainment or promotion?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rock_Flock_of_Five
Do they have to be mutually exclusive?
The evidence of most, not all, of the football we played in 12/13 and 17/18 suggests it has to be at Cardiff anyway.
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Re: Entertainment or promotion?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
The evidence of most, not all, of the football we played in 12/13 and 17/18 suggests it has to be at Cardiff anyway.
Fair enough :hehe:
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Re: Entertainment or promotion?
But shirley, for the majority ofv fans the two things go hand in hand.
To get promoted you have to have a side that wins games.
Most fans pay to go and watch their team win, not to watch pretty football while the lose every week.
So entertainment equates to your team winning which equates to promotion (Or the promise of it). :shrug:
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Re: Entertainment or promotion?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
xsnaggle
But shirley, for the majority ofv fans the two things go hand in hand.
To get promoted you have to have a side that wins games.
Most fans pay to go and watch their team win, not to watch pretty football while the lose every week.
So entertainment equates to your team winning which equates to promotion (Or the promise of it). :shrug:
Nine times out of ten I’d agree with you, but, increasingly, I don’t enjoy City wins as much as I did because of the way we play the game. I’d enjoy another promotion even if it was achieved playing Warnockball, but there’d also be a distinct feeling that we’d be heading straight back down again if we kept on playing the same way.
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Re: Entertainment or promotion?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rock_Flock_of_Five
Do they have to be mutually exclusive?
I don’t think so.
Look at the the football that Leeds play. And Brentford, Bournemouth and the JBs (admittedly they haven’t been promoted yet but have finished in the playoff positions)
And if you look at the Premier League, I think that most people who watch Man City, and the Liverpool of the previous two seasons would say that it was entertaining.
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Re: Entertainment or promotion?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
Nine times out of ten I’d agree with you, but, increasingly, I don’t enjoy City wins as much as I did because of the way we play the game. I’d enjoy another promotion even if it was achieved playing Warnockball, but there’d also be a distinct feeling that we’d be heading straight back down again if we kept on playing the same way.
Absolutely. Getting up and staying up are 2 different jobs, and for different jobs you need different tools.
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Re: Entertainment or promotion?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric the Half a Bee
Apologies to those on phones who probably can't see the poll.
One of the more regular debates on here in recent times has been about the quality of football, with reminiscences about the Dave Jones era being quite common.
So, over to you. Would you rather be entertained as we were (sometimes) under Dave Jones, or would you rather win promotion under Malky or Warnock?
I am going to struggle to go back to watch the dire football we have been served up in recent years . Mick is just a follow on to Neil .
If we were to be promoted playing the stuff we are currently playing all I could see is embarrassing result after embarrassing result.
Cardiff need a dynamic manager to re shape the club never mind the football we are watching . I don't see that happening
any time soon.
So , lets be entertained in the championship as we try to put together a football style that would give us a glimmer of hope should we actually get promoted.
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Re: Entertainment or promotion?
Some people have very short memories. The two recent promotion season were fantastic and very enjoyable. We won the Championship title in 2013 for goodness sake and in 2018 got a record 90 points and there were some excellent performances/games as well. I never thought I would ever watch City in the Premier League, so they were both a bonus. The time to start worrying about what brand of football the team plays is when you are an established Premier League club. Getting out of the Championship and staying up is a battle. Also anyone who thinks that Swansea are playing free flowing, attractive football this season is deluded and cant have seen them play. The ‘lump it’ forward more than most and are very defensive minded. Promotion every time for me and worry about the brand of football later.
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Re: Entertainment or promotion?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dml1954
Some people have very short memories. The two recent promotion season were fantastic and very enjoyable. We won the Championship title in 2013 for goodness sake and in 2018 got a record 90 points and there were some excellent performances/games as well. I never thought I would ever watch City in the Premier League, so they were both a bonus. The time to start worrying about what brand of football the team plays is when you are an established Premier League club. Getting out of the Championship and staying up is a battle. Also anyone who thinks that Swansea are playing free flowing, attractive football this season is deluded and cant have seen them play. The ‘lump it’ forward more than most and are very defensive minded. Promotion every time for me and worry about the brand of football later.
100% agree with these spot-on comments.
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Re: Entertainment or promotion?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dml1954
Some people have very short memories. The two recent promotion season were fantastic and very enjoyable. We won the Championship title in 2013 for goodness sake and in 2018 got a record 90 points and there were some excellent performances/games as well. I never thought I would ever watch City in the Premier League, so they were both a bonus. The time to start worrying about what brand of football the team plays is when you are an established Premier League club. Getting out of the Championship and staying up is a battle. Also anyone who thinks that Swansea are playing free flowing, attractive football this season is deluded and cant have seen them play. The ‘lump it’ forward more than most and are very defensive minded. Promotion every time for me and worry about the brand of football later.
So far, eight teams have been promoted to the Premier League since we last went up and by a conservative estimate I’d say seven of them were more attractive to watch than us (I thought Watford were pretty boring to watch this season), to argue that sides have to play like we do to achieve success in the Championship is plainly not true.
Anyway, the question is entertainment or promotion? At the huge majority of clubs it would be a pointless question because there would be far more saying promotion, so it shows how bad things have got here that, albeit with a very small sample, there are more people favouring entertainment over promotion as I write this.
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Re: Entertainment or promotion?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dml1954
Some people have very short memories. The two recent promotion season were fantastic and very enjoyable. We won the Championship title in 2013 for goodness sake and in 2018 got a record 90 points and there were some excellent performances/games as well. I never thought I would ever watch City in the Premier League, so they were both a bonus. The time to start worrying about what brand of football the team plays is when you are an established Premier League club. Getting out of the Championship and staying up is a battle. Also anyone who thinks that Swansea are playing free flowing, attractive football this season is deluded and cant have seen them play. The ‘lump it’ forward more than most and are very defensive minded. Promotion every time for me and worry about the brand of football later.
Some people have extremely short memories. Malkys football was in general, football to make your eyes bleed. Last 10 minutes of every game was petrifying as we hung on to our one nil lead. It certainly wasn't free flowing entertaining football by any ones standards.
Warnocks football was only entertaining when Tomlin played other wise it was dire. The promotion was ok , we were never going to survive in the premier league. It wasnt even fun .
So you are correct some people have short memories ,or amazing imaginations.
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Re: Entertainment or promotion?
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Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
So much depends on the timing with this question. If you'd have asked it ten years ago, I would definitely have voted for promotion because our side then could be very entertaining, but couldn't take the final step to promotion, but having now experienced two promotions and found that I don't like us being in that division as much as I thought I would (of course, I'd probably think differently if we were able to establish ourselves at that level for a while) and became completely bored and frustrated by the way we've played the game for the last six or seven years, I have now voted entertainment.
Not long after I posted this poll, the timing of the question situation entered my head. During our promotion seasons, I doubt many would have traded our position for more entertainment. In fact, I reckon that would have been the position when Harris's side got into the playoffs. Like you said, I reckon most would have voted promotion during the end of Dave Jones's reign out of frustration with not making the final step. Conversely, there's been a desire for entertainment when the side hasn't really threatened, thinking of the Russell Slade era and this season just finished. In other words, if the team is doing well, fans in general care much less about how good the football is.
Of course the Jones = entertaining and Warnock = boring equations aren't strictly true. Jones's sides could produce clueless boredom when they had been looking invincible for weeks, while some of the stuff at the start of Warnock's promotion season was superb to watch. But, as generalisations, they are accurate enough.
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Re: Entertainment or promotion?
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Originally Posted by
Jimmy the Jock
Some people have extremely short memories. Malkys football was in general, football to make your eyes bleed. Last 10 minutes of every game was petrifying as we hung on to our one nil lead. It certainly wasn't free flowing entertaining football by any ones standards.
I think some people have short memories as well. I'd certainly say that was true of most of our promotion season and our time in the Premier League with him, but in Malky's first season we had a side that did play some good stuff, with a grit and desire that was missing in previous seasons.
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Re: Entertainment or promotion?
I go to see us win. So promotion.
We werent exactly a passing side under Jones.
Put Bothroyd in Malkys team and we would really have been a quality side.
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Re: Entertainment or promotion?
Ref blows whistle
City score more goals than the other team
Ref blows whistle at end of game
City win
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Re: Entertainment or promotion?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
Ref blows whistle
City score more goals than the other team
Ref blows whistle at end of game
City win
:thumbup:
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Re: Entertainment or promotion?
I want us to play good quality football, but I'm not too bothered whether it's counter-attacking, direct, possession-based, or whatever.
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Re: Entertainment or promotion?
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Originally Posted by
Hilts
We werent exactly a passing side under Jones.
:sherlock:
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Re: Entertainment or promotion?
Very disappointing that the LFW option hasn't got more support.
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Re: Entertainment or promotion?
I just voted Leo.
I want us to be good. I want respect.
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Re: Entertainment or promotion?
Ask yourself the question, "If your first taste of watching football was that being served up by a Warnock/Harris/McCarthy side would you really want to come back for more ?"
I was lucky in that I got hooked by watching the Scoular-managed team of the 60's. No promotions but on many an occasion a joy to watch.
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Re: Entertainment or promotion?
If you go to the football and aren't devestated with a loss because we played good football, then I don't know what to say to you.
A win over the quality of the football every time.
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Re: Entertainment or promotion?
Most would prefer (myself included) promotion over entertainment but that's because I want us to win at all costs, always have always will. Even Derby escaping the drop didn't make up for us dropping points against Rotherham last week.
Promotion with poor quality football is acceptable but doesn't fill you with a great sense of achievement or live long in the memory. It is not surprising therefore that people hark back more readily to Bothroyd, Chopra, Gibson, Toshack et al, all of whom played in teams that failed to get us to the top level but gave us memories that will live with us forever.
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Re: Entertainment or promotion?
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Originally Posted by
Moodybluebird
Promotion with poor quality football is acceptable but doesn't fill you with a great sense of achievement or live long in the memory.
Can't agree with that, Andy Campbell's goal went in and the quality of football we played was completely irrelevant. Promotion is promotion regardless of the quality of football.
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Re: Entertainment or promotion?
Entertainment.
Promotion is such a let down once your there .
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Re: Entertainment or promotion?
I agree with Life on Mars.
Under the current football league set-up, promotion to the Premier League is such a damp squib after the initial rush on the day. I've lost total interest in the PL until they sort out the recent mess (which seems to have gone quiet as everyone's celebrating Manchester City's PL win - even though I feel all six clubs should have been docked enough points to drop them out of CL or EL auto qualification).
I'm pretty much old school when it comes to sport in general and feel that how you play the game is just as important as winning. I hated our recent PL experience - we were embarrassing (for the second time) and will be again as it stands. A wet, cold Friday night, 0-5 loss to Watford followed by a Monday (?) 0-3 wet, cold, evening loss to Everton was awful. We played awful football most of the time. Had we played well and lost 0-1 I'd have been disappointed but proud. I wasn't proud of most of our team's performances and neither was I proud of our manager, nor the club for keeping him on.
Entertainment (quality) every time.
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Re: Entertainment or promotion?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
UNDERHILL1927
Can't agree with that, Andy Campbell's goal went in and the quality of football we played was completely irrelevant. Promotion is promotion regardless of the quality of football.
It is often said that winning a play-off final is the best way to get promoted and I wouldn't argue with that. It is in effect a cup final, so is it any wonder it has created such a wonderful memory for you. If however we had played that way throughout the whole season and slogged our way to promotion, I very much doubt you would remember that promotion season with the same affection.
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Re: Entertainment or promotion?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Moodybluebird
It is often said that winning a play-off final is the best way to get promoted and I wouldn't argue with that. It is in effect a cup final, so is it any wonder it has created such a wonderful memory for you. If however we had played that way throughout the whole season and slogged our way to promotion, I very much doubt you would remember that promotion season with the same affection.
I have no recollection of how we played that season at all, only the day at The Millennium and that memory will live with me forever.
When I'm close to death I'll look back with fondness on memories like that, I won't give a **** whether we passed the ball around like Barcelona
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Re: Entertainment or promotion?
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Originally Posted by
Citizen's Nephew
I agree with Life on Mars.
Under the current football league set-up, promotion to the Premier League is such a damp squib after the initial rush on the day. I've lost total interest in the PL until they sort out the recent mess (which seems to have gone quiet as everyone's celebrating Manchester City's PL win - even though I feel all six clubs should have been docked enough points to drop them out of CL or EL auto qualification).
I'm with you here. The both times we have been in the Prem have been awful, for a variety of reasons.
I feel that the six 'plastics' should have been demoted down to the Championship to teach them a lesson. Yes, I know there would be 30 teams in the division next season, but every Championship club would have at least six sell out home games. The added bonus with three up three down, is that only three would be likely to return to the Prem the following. One or two like the arse might even do a Leeds and go down to League 1. Bonus! Seriously though, they should have all been deducted points, thus not allowing them to participate in Europe next season
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Re: Entertainment or promotion?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Citizen's Nephew
I agree with Life on Mars.
Under the current football league set-up, promotion to the Premier League is such a damp squib after the initial rush on the day. I've lost total interest in the PL until they sort out the recent mess (which seems to have gone quiet as everyone's celebrating Manchester City's PL win - even though I feel all six clubs should have been docked enough points to drop them out of CL or EL auto qualification).
I'm pretty much old school when it comes to sport in general and feel that how you play the game is just as important as winning. I hated our recent PL experience - we were embarrassing (for the second time) and will be again as it stands. A wet, cold Friday night, 0-5 loss to Watford followed by a Monday (?) 0-3 wet, cold, evening loss to Everton was awful. We played awful football most of the time. Had we played well and lost 0-1 I'd have been disappointed but proud. I wasn't proud of most of our team's performances and neither was I proud of our manager, nor the club for keeping him on.
Entertainment (quality) every time.
I must protest, it wasn’t 5-0 against Watford, it was 5-1 -Sol Bamba scored from a ruck/rolling maul.
Apart from that, I agree with you :hehe:
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Re: Entertainment or promotion?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
Entertainment.
Promotion is such a let down once your there .
So you'll be perfectly happy if we spend the next 10 years as a mid-table Championship team?
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Re: Entertainment or promotion?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
I must protest, it wasn’t 5-0 against Watford, it was 5-1 -Sol Bamba scored from a ruck/rolling maul.
Apart from that, I agree with you :hehe:
Oh I'd forgotten about that! :thumbup:Yes, our goal clearly didn't register the way Deulofeu's hat-trick did! Was I right about Everton on the following Monday? I referenced these two because I was struggling more than usual and they were a real pain to get to and literally sit through the two matches so close together (and the conditions) so they kind of summed up that season for me. I said to my wife on the way to the Watford game that I wanted to Delefeou up close as I think he'll be a real handful. He made mincemeat of us (Morrison).
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Re: Entertainment or promotion?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Citizen's Nephew
Oh I'd forgotten about that! :thumbup:Yes, our goal clearly didn't register the way Deulofeu's hat-trick did! Was I right about Everton on the following Monday? I referenced these two because I was struggling more than usual and they were a real pain to get to and literally sit through the two matches so close together (and the conditions) so they kind of summed up that season for me. I said to my wife on the way to the Watford game that I wanted to Delefeou up close as I think he'll be a real handful. He made mincemeat of us (Morrison).
As it was not a Bank Holiday, I’d say the only reason we’d play on a Monday is if it was televised and I’m pretty sure that it wasn’t , so I’m guessing the Everton match was on a Tuesday or Wednesday. Delefeou caused us more problems at Cardiff City Stadium than any other player that season I reckon and I remember that although it finished 3-2, Watford could have scored a hatful at Vicaridge Road as well.
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Re: Entertainment or promotion?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mr Soul '68
I'm with you here. The both times we have been in the Prem have been awful, for a variety of reasons.
I feel that the six 'plastics' should have been demoted down to the Championship to teach them a lesson. Yes, I know there would be 30 teams in the division next season, but every Championship club would have at least six sell out home games. The added bonus with three up three down, is that only three would be likely to return to the Prem the following. One or two like the arse might even do a Leeds and go down to League 1. Bonus! Seriously though, they should have all been deducted points, thus not allowing them to participate in Europe next season
It would have to be the points deduction because it would hurt them more and they need that level of punishment though I'm liking your ruthlessness :thumbup:. In the latest edition in When Saturday Comes it states that all signed up to 23-year contracts. They intended to run second-string teams in their own leagues. They were guaranteed an annual income of around £280 million with a broadcasting contract on top of that. And let's not forget that there were to be 15 permanent members of the new EL - the other 3 unamed before it imploded.
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Re: Entertainment or promotion?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
As it was not a Bank Holiday, I’d say the only reason we’d play on a Monday is if it was televised and I’m pretty sure that it wasn’t , so I’m guessing the Everton match was on a Tuesday or Wednesday. Delefeou caused us more problems at Cardiff City Stadium than any other player that season I reckon and I remember that although it finished 3-2, Watford could have scored a hatful at Vicaridge Road as well.
:thumbup:
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Re: Entertainment or promotion?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
As it was not a Bank Holiday, I’d say the only reason we’d play on a Monday is if it was televised and I’m pretty sure that it wasn’t , so I’m guessing the Everton match was on a Tuesday or Wednesday. Delefeou caused us more problems at Cardiff City Stadium than any other player that season I reckon and I remember that although it finished 3-2, Watford could have scored a hatful at Vicaridge Road as well.
The Everton match was definitely on a Tuesday evening. I had a workshop to attend in Cardiff early the next morning so stayed with my son in the Travelodge just off Queen St. As we left the ground I remember him saying he thought our performance was a load of shite. When I asked him where he heard such a phrase (he was 6), he said "You said it, Daddy!"
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Re: Entertainment or promotion?
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Originally Posted by
LeningradCowboy
So you'll be perfectly happy if we spend the next 10 years as a mid-table Championship team?
Thats the best we can hope for at the moment.