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Has she got a point - should we be supporting England?
Although I can't forget that Kyle Walker was a selfish idiot during lockdown last year, I read this and can't find much to argue with, but, support England tomorrow and if they reach the Final? I just can't do it.
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/n...rting-20969746
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Re: Has she got a point - should we be supporting England?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
Although I can't forget that Kyle Walker was a selfish idiot during lockdown last year, I read this and can't find much to argue with, but, support England tomorrow and if they reach the Final? I just can't do it.
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/n...rting-20969746
No, I don't support any other team if Wales are knocked out, why would I?
This is the closest that I've ever been to wanting England to win though, not to make them happy, but because of the vitriol and bitterness I've seen from Welsh fans. It really seems to be worse this tournament.
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Re: Has she got a point - should we be supporting England?
Its up to the individual
But I could never support the English football team
People say that they don't think we are any kind of rivals to them but I couldn't give a toss
If Wales were Ukraine and had beaten England do you think it would all be handshakes and well done you welsh chaps from the press ? Like feck , they wouldn't care about wales and would be shouting for Southgate, a really good guy , to be sacked
Some people are rabid nationalists and some people just don't do this oh they are British mentality and thats my view
When Swansea were in the play offs people I know who have no interest in Cardiff City and openly talk about their love of united , Liverpool etc said I should be supporting a fellow Welsh team .
So I just say why don't you do it all year round then ?
I want Enland beaten not because I hate English people , its because my team is Cardiff City and my national team is Wales , right on the border on England and I would love to be able to take the piss out of Bristol City next season and watch that idiot shearer talk cobblers after losing .
I will feel sorry for Southgate and Rashford etc but thats it . I know there will be genuine chilled out England fans who will be gutted . But there was plenty of welsh people feeling the same when we were knocked out .
The article itself is crap as all wales online, western mail and wales on Sunday articles are , its just bait to get a reaction .
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Re: Has she got a point - should we be supporting England?
For me, it’s not the players or the manager, on the whole they seem a decent bunch. It’s the media that’ll piss me off, have you noticed there’s a mention of the upcoming semi final in totally unconnected snippets at the end of tv programmes, ‘Emmerdale is coming up next, support Gareth’s boys’ type of thing. Was the same thing happening in 2016 regarding Wales? I don’t know, I was in France but somehow I doubt it. Also, if allowed in, opposition fans could be a bit unbearable over the next 55 years, apparently they won the World Cup in 1966 and the gloating cycle will start over again.
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Re: Has she got a point - should we be supporting England?
The Danes seem like a nice group of players too. It's not really the overriding factor for me.
I don't think we should try to stamp out rivalry from the game. Within reason it's part of the fun of it.
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Re: Has she got a point - should we be supporting England?
I didn't read the article, if I'm honest. However, I always support England after Wales.
Despite having been to Denmark twice, I have far more English friends than Danish ones.
Most of my English friends were willing Wales to reach the finals in 2016.
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Re: Has she got a point - should we be supporting England?
The article is complete crap. For a start we have enough of the type of supporters she described about England fans.
Im not supporting them but couldnt really care less if they did win. Im sure England fans would p!ss themselves at some of the bitterness on the site its real chip on the shoulder stuff.
Them winning this or Swansea winning the play offs. I take an England win any day.
But actually support them. No.
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Re: Has she got a point - should we be supporting England?
What a ridiculous article.
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Re: Has she got a point - should we be supporting England?
Was the article actually about promoting her new book and she chose a contentious issue to promote it with.
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Re: Has she got a point - should we be supporting England?
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Originally Posted by
light up the darkness
Was the article actually about promoting her new book and she chose a contentious issue to promote it with.
Makes a change for the press not to be talking about rugby I suppose. In the question - perhaps we should be supporting our UK neighbours but I just can’t bring myself to do it. I know there are far more decent English people than not, but I can’t clear my head of the media and the bouncing chimps we face at every away game.
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Re: Has she got a point - should we be supporting England?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
splott parker
For me, it’s not the players or the manager, on the whole they seem a decent bunch. It’s the media that’ll piss me off, have you noticed there’s a mention of the upcoming semi final in totally unconnected snippets at the end of tv programmes, ‘Emmerdale is coming up next, support Gareth’s boys’ type of thing. Was the same thing happening in 2016 regarding Wales? I don’t know, I was in France but somehow I doubt it. Also, if allowed in, opposition fans could be a bit unbearable over the next 55 years, apparently they won the World Cup in 1966 and the gloating cycle will start over again.
Media and pundits are always way OTT.
And, as you say. it'll be anther year to mention every time England play.
(Actually, will they remember this year - 2021? or 2020, when "Euro 2020" was meant to be?)
IMO there's only one thing worse than a bad loser, and that's a bad winner.
I'll be happy if they get stuffed, but I won't lose any sleep if they win.
Also, we should start a sweepstake on how many knighthoods, MBEs and OBEs will be dished out if they win.
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Re: Has she got a point - should we be supporting England?
It's a wind up article isn't it, designed to have a pop at Wales for being out of the tournament and piss off the Nationalists, pure clickbait with a deeper Brexit narrative.
As someone who lives/works in London, went to University in England, has an English partner, really great English mates, I still do not want England to win.
Why would I? It would be like supporting the Jacks. Pure nonsense. I also don't support Scotland, Ireland etc when their playing. Again, they are local rivals, good luck to them if they are doing well but I still want Wales to be better. Plus it's the English media that irritates, annoys, grates the most. Most of my English mates and proper football fans are a lot more measured about it all.
Just because you don't want England to win at sport doesn't mean you hate England. When I think about the amount of bands, artists, actors, writers, political figures, footballers....etc etc from England that I admire, it would be very hypocritical to say you hate England.
I've experienced the other side of it too, sat in pubs in England with people cheering on whoever Wales were playing. They give zero shits about Wales and whether we should play Joe Morrell or Matt Smith as a deep lying ball player. Absolutely fine by me. :hehe:
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Re: Has she got a point - should we be supporting England?
Also, why are they so obsessed about us supporting them? Why do they need our approval?
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Re: Has she got a point - should we be supporting England?
The media bias is annoying. But to be fair its tiny compared to the build up or aftermath of a 6 nations game.
The author herself has penned a cringy article in a build up.
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Re: Has she got a point - should we be supporting England?
When it comes to the lions tour or team GB in the Olympics then of course I want those teams and squads to do well and succeed as we are all represented and under the same banner.
But in football? Never. The England national team couldn't give two hoots about us and if we supported them or not so why is she bringing out this daft article?
The UK has 4 home nations, each with their own fan base, history tradition and support. I respect them and have lots of friends from all those nations but I never "support" them to win or be better than us. Just the way it is in football.
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Re: Has she got a point - should we be supporting England?
In my football supporting life I've been through phases of genuinely supporting England (before I was even aware there was a Wales team), to utterly hating them and wanting them to lose every match (probably 96-98).
These days I'm a lot more prosaic about it, I can watch them with an open mind - complement them when they win and take the piss when they lose.
they have some likeable players, and the manager seems a nice guy. If Denmark knock them out I won't feel elated or disappointed.
The "it's coming home" stuff is very quickly starting to grate though - so that could all quickly change.
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Re: Has she got a point - should we be supporting England?
Why don't these kind of articles appear when England are shite?
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Re: Has she got a point - should we be supporting England?
It's not complicated. Support whichever teams you want and don't try to police which teams other people support.
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Re: Has she got a point - should we be supporting England?
Whilst some of the players actions of late are to be admired, suggesting we should support a team other than our own is a little odd and as we were competing in the competition ourselves it's disrespectful. Does anyone shift their support to another team in the FA Cup when we have our usual half arsed 3rd round effort? If we drop out of contention for the playoffs do we start cheering for one of the teams in the running because some of their players are great ambassadors for the Championship? I very much doubt it.
I'm happy that some the players are taking some social responsibility and the changes the are seeking to make may just make your average England fan more bearable than some of the idiots that have been most prevalent in the past, however cheering when a national team other than Wales score/win? Odd....
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Re: Has she got a point - should we be supporting England?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
Na you’re alright.
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Re: Has she got a point - should we be supporting England?
Judging by the conga that formed in the Fan Park at Bordeaux when Russia equalised against England at Euro 2016 this idea may struggle to really take off.
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Re: Has she got a point - should we be supporting England?
She has a point that the England manager and squad are far more likeable and praiseworthy than the ones that went before. But she spent the first two thirds of the article giving chapter and verse on all the reasons that many Welsh people wouldn't want to support them (history, media, an ugly core of fans).
I have no difficulty admiring Southgate, Stirling, Rashford and others in the squad but not 'supporting' them in the match.
I also know I will want Denmark to win. Underdog, Eriksen, their manager and squad (impressive in different way), and mostly for the English media melt-down that would follow.
That has nothing to do with 'hating' England or the English. I don't . I live in England and like most of England and most English people (I live with one). But that doesn't change my hardwired identity and disgust at much of the England football circus.
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Re: Has she got a point - should we be supporting England?
No, I won't be willing England on. The players seem like a good bunch, Southgate is a decent man, but the media will, at some point, slip into a haze of post colonialism, it always happens, and although much better now than previous years, it will happen.
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Re: Has she got a point - should we be supporting England?
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Originally Posted by
Hometown Unicorn!
Also, why are they so obsessed about us supporting them? Why do they need our approval?
She lives here.
In my experience most of them are oblivious to the feelings of Welsh fans and wouldn't really care. My family find the wanting England to lose stuff just a bit strange considering they were behind Wales for 16.
It's a bit like a Newport fan wanting failure for us but a lot of our fans wanting them to get promoted. Is what it is I suppose
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Re: Has she got a point - should we be supporting England?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
She has a point that the England manager and squad are far more likeable and praiseworthy than the ones that went before. But she spent the first two thirds of the article giving chapter and verse on all the reasons that many Welsh people wouldn't want to support them (history, media, an ugly core of fans).
I have no difficulty admiring Southgate, Stirling, Rashford and others in the squad but not 'supporting' them in the match.
I also know I will want Denmark to win. Underdog, Eriksen, their manager and squad (impressive in different way), and mostly for the English media melt-down that would follow.
That has nothing to do with 'hating' England or the English. I don't . I live in England and like most of England and most English people (I live with one). But that doesn't change my hardwired identity and disgust at much of the England football circus.
Better than I could put it. When the English football team do well, their celebrations always seem tainted with an element of ' I told you so' as opposed to just relief and ecstasy.
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Re: Has she got a point - should we be supporting England?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
splott parker
For me, it’s not the players or the manager, on the whole they seem a decent bunch. It’s the media that’ll piss me off, have you noticed there’s a mention of the upcoming semi final in totally unconnected snippets at the end of tv programmes, ‘Emmerdale is coming up next, support Gareth’s boys’ type of thing. Was the same thing happening in 2016 regarding Wales? I don’t know, I was in France but somehow I doubt it. Also, if allowed in, opposition fans could be a bit unbearable over the next 55 years, apparently they won the World Cup in 1966 and the gloating cycle will start over again.
I agree with so much of what you say. The central theme of the article is that we in Wales should support this England team because they do not adhere to the stereotype an awful lot of us associate that country with. In so far as it goes, it's hard to argue with that logic - if Marcus Rashford has not won a major humanitarian award yet, he certainly should have done, Rahim Sterling has handled himself well in recent years, Jordan Henderson comes over well and I could go on by naming others, while Gareth Southgate is an impressive figure in many ways.
However, for me anyway, there's more to it than that. You're right about the media as far as I'm concerned and in recent days there have been things happen which, in some cases, I've experienced plenty of times down the years, but that does not make them any easier to accept.
Actually, I wasn't too bothered by what Johnson said at PMQs a few weeks back because it was exactly what I'd expect from someone like him. However it still grates with me when I see adverts being broadcast on Welsh channels which are geared entirely at an English audience (e.g. the Deliveroo one we've seen during the Euros). Similarly, what I heard last night whereby Emma Raducanu was referred to as English, while, a few days earlier, the same people were saying Andy Murray was British rankles even though it shouldn't by now because I've heard it so many times before.
At least Wales making it to the last two Euros has meant that you're less likely to see England themed promotions in Welsh supermarkets at the time of major tournaments, but I daresay there have been a few dotted around the country in the last month or so.
it's the laziness, ignorance and, to a small extent, the arrogance of that sort of thing which makes it so hard to be supportive of English sporting teams even when they are made up of what seems to be decent people like the current England football team appears to be.
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Re: Has she got a point - should we be supporting England?
This England team are very good, despite having Pickford in goal. Their defence has barely been tested yet. They should get to the final at least and then have a 50/50 chance against either Italy or Spain. I believe they can actually win it.
However, I have tried to get behind them but just can't. I saw the Ukraine game with the sound off. It's not the footballers or the manager, it's the press and the England fans. Let's face it, they have only got to one final and then played all their games at home and had a goal given in the final which should have been disallowed. Sounds familiar? Three games at home again this time and a potential final at Wembley. But they are well balanced team and have great attacking potential (although even I could score half nof Kane's goals!).
Compare their achievements to France, Germany, Italy, Spain, and Portugal and they have consistently failed. But I think it could be their time. I saw my first Wales v England game in 1970 (1-1) at Ninian Park. There appeared to be no love lost between he fans at that game either. However as a boy I did support them at the 1966 World Cup and in 1970, but I was young and did not know what I was doing!
So I say, Good luck to them, but don't have to support them. To be it's just like watching a game on Sky , say Blackburn v QPR, and saying well done to the winner but having no real interest in it. Or looking at the football results on a Saturday and seeing Barrow won a game. You can't support two international teams, just your own.
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Re: Has she got a point - should we be supporting England?
I don't see any reason why I would support England.
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Re: Has she got a point - should we be supporting England?
No, should Everton fans support Liverpool when Everton are out of the FA Cup?
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Re: Has she got a point - should we be supporting England?
No.
I watched the Terry Venables documentary currently showing on Sky yesterday. That was the one time I can remember not minding if England won it.
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Re: Has she got a point - should we be supporting England?
Putting harmless rivalry aside, it occurred to me over the weekend that our attitude to England's current success is influenced greatly who and what we associate with being English. Some people on here have brought up the evils of the British Empire, others have described individuals in the media and the behaviour of some England fans have been mentioned.
For my part, I base my views on having lived in 5 different counties in England (including London), the 900 colleagues I currently work with (the vast majority being English), my friends, acquaintances and the neighbours I have had over the last 40 years. They are as far removed from Empire-builders, exploitative industrialists and plastic chair-throwing thuggery as I am.
No-one is obliged to support our rivals but the average Joe in Taunton is not that different to his counterpart in Tonteg.
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Re: Has she got a point - should we be supporting England?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taunton Blue Genie
Putting harmless rivalry aside, it occurred to me over the weekend that our attitude to England's current success is influenced greatly who and what we associate with being English. Some people on here have brought up the evils of the British Empire, others have described individuals in the media and the behaviour of some England fans have been mentioned.
For my part, I base my views on having lived in 5 different counties in England (including London), the 900 colleagues I currently work with (the vast majority being English), my friends, acquaintances and the neighbours I have had over the last 40 years. They are as far removed from Empire-builders, exploitative industrialists and plastic chair-throwing thuggery as I am.
No-one is obliged to support our rivals but the average Joe in Taunton is not that different to his counterpart in Tonteg.
That's quite a lot of work colleagues! :hide:
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Re: Has she got a point - should we be supporting England?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taunton Blue Genie
Putting harmless rivalry aside, it occurred to me over the weekend that our attitude to England's current success is influenced greatly who and what we associate with being English. Some people on here have brought up the evils of the British Empire, others have described individuals in the media and the behaviour of some England fans have been mentioned.
For my part, I base my views on having lived in 5 different counties in England (including London), the 900 colleagues I currently work with (the vast majority being English), my friends, acquaintances and the neighbours I have had over the last 40 years. They are as far removed from Empire-builders, exploitative industrialists and plastic chair-throwing thuggery as I am.
No-one is obliged to support our rivals but the average Joe in Taunton is not that different to his counterpart in Tonteg.
Tontegist ….reported
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Re: Has she got a point - should we be supporting England?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taunton Blue Genie
Putting harmless rivalry aside, it occurred to me over the weekend that our attitude to England's current success is influenced greatly who and what we associate with being English. Some people on here have brought up the evils of the British Empire, others have described individuals in the media and the behaviour of some England fans have been mentioned.
For my part, I base my views on having lived in 5 different counties in England (including London), the 900 colleagues I currently work with (the vast majority being English), my friends, acquaintances and the neighbours I have had over the last 40 years. They are as far removed from Empire-builders, exploitative industrialists and plastic chair-throwing thuggery as I am.
No-one is obliged to support our rivals but the average Joe in Taunton is not that different to his counterpart in Tonteg.
Yes, that's obviously the case. People will almost always base their opinion on these types of things based on media, government, certain aspects culturally etc I very much doubt it down to individuals. I wouldn't compare Saudi Arabia or Israel to England, that would be ridiculous, but for different reasons, I wouldn't want either of those countries to win anything either, although I am sure that there are plenty of very nice Israelis and Saudis.
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Re: Has she got a point - should we be supporting England?
With an English mother and Scottish father, and being born in Wales I still cannot bring myself to cheer for them. I don't mind Scotland though.
Interesting fact that Scotland have qualified for 8 World Cups and 3 Euros but never got out of the group stage.
Wales have qualified for one World Cup and 2 euros and had a last 16, a QF and a Semi Final. (not including 1976).
England have won the World Cup , got to 2 semi finals and , this will be their third Euro semi.
So Wales haven't done too badly....it's just qualifying is our problem!
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Re: Has she got a point - should we be supporting England?
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Originally Posted by
NYCBlue
What a ridiculous article.
This.
My response to this article is “well done if it’s true that you are changing as a nation. What’s that got to do with me as a Welsh Person?”
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Re: Has she got a point - should we be supporting England?
The way the Wales /England fans were treated in Europe has made me feel a bit more affinity with the English.
Part of me would like to see them win just to watch the reaction.
They do have some really excellent football players.
As usual my pocket will rule my heart , I have £80 on Italy ....... My grandmother was Italian as well. Cmon Italy ....:hehe:
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Re: Has she got a point - should we be supporting England?
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Originally Posted by
Trigger
It's a bit like a Newport fan wanting failure for us but a lot of our fans wanting them to get promoted. Is what it is I suppose
Decent analogy. I’ve spent the best part of a decade living in England, I find those work colleagues and mates that are into football (particularly those of clubs outside the big English clubs), take a genuine interest in Wales when they know I’m a Wales and city supporter.
I’d say the majority gave me plenty of encouraging congratulations during our high points over that time and I’d say a genuine want for us to go all the way during the last euros in particular. I think being an unfancied underdog helps though, as I do think that is a particularly British trait.
Saying that, there’s definitely been a minority that weren’t that way inclined. Which is fine by me, ultimately I couldn’t care less if England fans want Wales to do well or not. Which is how it should be for me.
Either way, although I’ve definitely mellowed towards England in the football, I’m not English and I don’t support them. Despite being neighbours with a close and interrelated history in the football, I do think the experience of supporting one or the other is markedly different and makes it hard for me personally to relate. In the same way as I would find it hard to relate to being a supporter of any of the “big” footballing nations.
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Re: Has she got a point - should we be supporting England?
I think some CCMB contributors need to prepare themselves for England to win the tournament. They have a really good team, with strength in depth, the team spirit that appears to match that of Wales and their confidence must be sky high even if that is played down in press conferences. Add to that the fact that their semi-final will be played at home at Wembley with the vast majority of supporters being English. If they beat Denmark, then, with the final also at Wembley, they could not wish for a better route and have little excuse not to go all the way this time.
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Re: Has she got a point - should we be supporting England?
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Originally Posted by
Gofer Blue
I think some CCMB contributors need to prepare themselves for England to win the tournament. They have a really good team, with strength in depth, the team spirit that appears to match that of Wales and their confidence must be sky high even if that is played down in press conferences. Add to that the fact that their semi-final will be played at home at Wembley with the vast majority of supporters being English. If they beat Denmark, then, with the final also at Wembley, they could not wish for a better route and have little excuse not to go all the way this time.
I think everyone recognises that. It's whether they want it to happen or not.