What’s your opinion ???
https://apple.news/At_vLgX4MS7i32Ovyjy0Xrg
Shirley a small pub can’t be expected to employ doormen/person, to check.
It’ll kill businesses !!
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What’s your opinion ???
https://apple.news/At_vLgX4MS7i32Ovyjy0Xrg
Shirley a small pub can’t be expected to employ doormen/person, to check.
It’ll kill businesses !!
Works well in France. They don’t use doormen though they just have the person working there check it.
I think the reason it’ll be difficult is some of the people who cause a fuss with business owners are the exact type of people you don’t want to confront about it because it’s too much hassle.
If a Covid pass is needed for a pub then surely one must be shown for a train or bus.
No issue with it.
Add in cashless bars to reduce the spread as well.
surely its the same as when you go to a pub / cafe and the person serving you asks you to scan the T&T QR sign
just show them your phone / pass and its done
Cant see a problem with it.
If it helps reduce the pressure on the nhs throughout the winter then it's shirley not too much of an inconvenience.
Step too far. Being vaccinated doesn't prevent you from passing it on. Can see the argument on how it can increase take up of the vaccine, but I think we are in danger of creating a few rather oppressive 'norms' for society as a result of Covid. The winners will be tech firms and global finance.
We are now at the point where Covid is more or less akin to seasonal flu. We would never have dreamt of such restrictions for that.
I also don't think this policy works. You make pubs more difficult to access then you push people to houses where there are no restrictions.
Being vaccinated lowers the chance of passing it or catching it.
It’s a lot more severe than flu at the moment, we wouldn’t be seeing 150 average daily deaths from flu in the autumn.
Not saying I’m for or against the passes but there’s no need to stray from the facts.
How would you know it lowers the chance of passing it or catching it ? Looking at Gibraltar as an example that’s highly unlikely.
The IFR rate is 0.019 which is the same as flu , the difference with flu is that we don’t test people within 28 days regardless of other illnesses inherited.
It may not kill the industry but people will definitely lose jobs.
Look in the lancet reports which has all the data. It isn’t going to stop 100% of transmissions and without any restrictions it’s still a very transmissible virus, especially the delta variant. The vaccine loses efficiency after 6 months if only given in 2 doses which also explains places seeing some growth in figures which is why boosters are important .
The IFR for Covid and flu aren’t similar either, especially without vaccination it’s about a magnitude greater.
Again not being pro or anti pass but not sticking to facts undermines arguments.
On another note, bring back table service
The IFR rate is exactly the same , I can read data , can you imagine if they tested everyone for flu within 28 days prior ?
If the vax only lasts 6 months why don’t the government look at prior infection immunity ( anti-body testing ) , as this would offer longer protection than 6 months and free up vaccination supplies for people in the greatest need ?
On a personal note , boosting everyone within a six month period is not feasible and in the recipients best interest is it ?
Why is it not feasible or in anyone’s best interest?
It’s not that it only lasts 6 months but transmission protection wanes. A lot of vaccines need more than 2 courses to make it last it isn’t a surprise with this one, especially since the emergence of the delta variant.
I’d be interested to see anywhere saying the IFR is the same for flu and Covid because everywhere I look says Covid is much higher.
I agree Covid is becoming endemic and if we are fully vaxxed we can treat it like flu but we aren’t there yet in my opinion.
iFR rate is the same as flu - ministers have confirmed In parliament
https://twitter.com/stevebakerhw/sta...615764992?s=21
Today I asked @sajidjavid when we can expect to live with Covid-19 as an endemic disease, just like flu.
✅ Ministers have now confirmed the infection fatality rate of COVID19 is 0.096%, comparable to 🤧
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...527-0/fulltext
That says completely different.
So is the IFR the same as flu only post vaccination? Which means if immunity and waining and we are entering winter trying to keep it under wraps might be a good idea.
Again not pro or anti covid pass just saying the argument should be made with all the facts.
I take on board your link from The Lancet , as I feel we need to debate freely something this important however, The Lancet Global Health Commission on High Quality Health Systems in the SDG Era is supported by funding from the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation.
The content is solely the responsibility of the authors and does not necessarily represent the official views of the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation.
On that basis I think the comparisons to Flu would be more accurate if discussed in Parliament.
To me, a law which is unenforceable, is not a law (20 mph for example)
People are not wearing masks on transport or shops.
If it goes down the road of showing passes in pubs, why not shops and transport as well.
We would all love to be back to normal, but what is normal these days.
It should be all or nothing, not show it here, wear it there !!
Everywhere should be treated the same, then we would all know where we stood
The Lancet is very well respected and I'm not aware of any credible accusations of bias. I'm not sure what the Bill and melinda gates foundation funding relates to exactly, I know they are heavily involved in healthcare issues worldwide so it isn't a surprise they will have reason t interact with the lancet.
Parliament is not a credible source. People can say any old shite in parliament and not get called out on it. I've read hansard on some debates on a couple of topics I had some knowledge in and found people were talking utter shite, unchallenged throughout. MPs are usually not experts. Lets not pretend that it is more reliable than the lancet because it is convenient for a point you are making.
The funding will in my opinion give it a conflict of interest, but as I’ve said it’s important to debate things like this.
The pass in my opinion could be discriminatory and could lead to a two tiered society.
I agree that some things in Parliament are debatable and unimportant, however COVID facts gives it a different perspective altogether.
Ultimately 30% will be all for it ( regardless of any counter opinion), 40% will be on the fence and the other 30% will be against.
I’ve given you a reasonable response, if it differs to yours fine - hope that helps
😂
It’s just my opinion , ultimately I’m just replying to a thread on here. I have thought it through, but it’s up you to make an informed decision yourself. Im just quoting what Steven Baker raised in Parliament, which I found interesting and relevant to the debate about passports in pubs. You don’t have to agree do you ?
My personal opinion is that it should be for everything or nothing at all. I know people in my family who are in retail and Leisure and it’s going to make it very difficult for them to survive.
I agree entirely. There is a lot of very regressive stuff being pushed through and normalised at the moment.
I have had both vaccines, wholly support the vaccination programme and would encourage people to do so, but people's bodies are their own and I don't agree in allowing or denying entry to places in ones own country based on vaccinations etc. Covid will come and go but there are certain societal norms that I think we should be wary of giving up.
It will effect the smaller venues who cant afford the door persons or scanners or QR codes readers etc , it will create the loss of business and sadly , jobs , time to show some live with the beast ,however whatever Nicola of Scotland does old Mark is not far behind save him looking for
a better smarter solution .
It's a good job social media wasn't around when Jenner was working on the smallpox vaccine, which is now, officially, an eradicated disease. Vaccinations and immunology has saved millions of lives. Covid passes? First world problems.
Why do people think it will affect small businesses? Do you think a covid pass will put people off going because that doesn't seem the be the case with large events that require them at the moment. 80% of Wales is almost fully vaccinated (which is 90+ for over 12s) so it isn't even like a large number of people will be excluded.
For the life of me I can't understand the issue; if the Government decides solely on the reason that it is to protect the health and wellbeing of the majority then so be it, pubs etc. will just have to conform it they want to stay in business. I don't think the check will be too onerous for them.
It's like the business about people having the right to refuse vaccinations: absolutely correct, it's their own bodies so they should have that right. However if it is believed they put others in danger by not being vaccinated then I think they should accept the fact that certain of their liberties will be curtailed. In my opinion its like the sensible ruling that, as it's your own body, you should be able to intake as much alcohol as you wish and can afford, however, deciding to pursue that course of action will restrict your right to drive. Not unreasonable I think.
Why would extra staff be required? It’s a 5 second check that bar staff can do. No different to checking ID for age.
QR codes can be printed on a single sheet of paper and be scanned with even the most basic of phones these days. Just need a camera and the ability to connect to the internet.
If that’s enough to kill off a business then they weren’t lasting long anyways.
What’s predictable about this thread is that any poster who is deemed not “regular “ and has a different opinion to the “regular” posters on any subject , not just this one ,is ganged up on ( in a virtual sense ) funny how people act when anonymous…….
Face to face a different matter I’m sure :hehe:
Who is ganging up? Why is everyone on this board have such thin skin, it is just different posters posting different questions.
Which post has upset you and which posts do you think are ganging up.
You call it not regular but you're writing off a respected medical journal because of a conspiracy theory, so what is the point in anyone discussing anything with you if you won't accept any actual evidence?
I’m not writing it off , far from it , I’m just saying I prefer to take on board a discussion that took place in Parliament at a later date than the article in question. Again, that’s my view.
If the Parliamentary debate was rubbish it would have been fact-checked and de-platformed wouldn’t it?
I don't understand what you mean here.
There are loads of studies showing that the IFR of covid is higher than flu, is there any other evidence other than one question in parliament that hasn't been backed up by a source.
Also is IFR the only facet of covid we should worry about? What if IFR is the same? Covid is much more transmissable than flu anyway.
And I really don't understand why you think people are "ganging up" on you, it's a messageboard its one use is for things to be discussed.
There are loads of articles that state it is the same IFR as well , which are more up to date - I will post them when I have time if you want or I could bring them to the next home game.
Ultimately whatever people think ,they are discriminatory towards other businesses, towards people who are unable to practise freedom of choice.