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Sensible Debate , Part Two
Turnbull
Quality player
If Ramsey was fit , Siopis , Ralls and Wintle and Turnbull would make a good midfield
He gets a dig from some fans because let's be honest the rest of the team are not pulling up trees and Ramsey and Odowda have hardly featured
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Re: Sensible Debate , Part Two
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
Turnbull
Quality player
If Ramsey was fit , Siopis , Ralls and Wintle and Turnbull would make a good midfield
He gets a dig from some fans because let's be honest the rest of the team are not pulling up trees and Ramsey and Odowda have hardly featured
Am I the only City fan who thinks Siopis is over rated and the sort of player we didn’t need?
As for Turnbull, I’d like to see a bit more of him before coming to a definitive opinion on him, but can anyone say that he’s done anything yet to justify his alleged transfer fee of £2 million or even a quarter of that sum?
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Re: Sensible Debate , Part Two
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
Am I the only City fan who thinks Siopis is over rated and the sort of player we didn’t need?
No. I think Siopis is vastly overrated by many City fans simply because he runs around a lot. His passing is woeful for a midfielder at this level. His work rate is admirable and his ability to win possession is commendable, but it’s usually a waste of time as he so often gives the ball straight back to the opposition. To say he lacks composure is putting it kindly.
I’ve got no firm opinion on Turnbull. He’s shown very little in his ten appearances so far, but he’s playing under a manager who is ridiculously negative and defensive, so it’s probably not fair to judge him just yet.
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Re: Sensible Debate , Part Two
In a team so devoid of pace Bulut buys one of the slowest players since Joe Mason. You can see his quality as one of the few players that appears to take the ball no matter how many players are around him. But, with Colwill or Ramsey up there with him, we can forget any serious press.
I think Bulut thought Siopis would be a defensive midfielder but found he doesn't have the time and simply gets overpowered in the championship. Wouldn't be surprised if he moved over the summer. I think he and Ralls work as two sitters but with that, your full backs need to be attacking but ours rarely cross halfway.
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Re: Sensible Debate , Part Two
Turnbull has been underwhelming for me, not to say he’s a bad player I just think he’s along the lines of what we already have, like the others he lacks pace and physicality. Maybe under another manager he makes more of an impact, in our current set up I don’t see enough in him to play as a 10 or in the 2 sitting.
As for Siopis he can be very good and equally as terrible. I think the post above is spot on, he’s decent alongside Ralls but alongside Wintle he’s just chasing shadows all game and we lose all shape.
Despite us signing Turnbull and Siopis, midfield is still an area we struggle.
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Re: Sensible Debate , Part Two
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Lone Gunman
No. I think Siopis is vastly overrated by many City fans simply because he runs around a lot.
In fairness to Sludge, Willie Boland did exactly the same and he was Sludge's hero!
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Re: Sensible Debate , Part Two
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
Am I the only City fan who thinks Siopis is over rated and the sort of player we didn’t need?
As for Turnbull, I’d like to see a bit more of him before coming to a definitive opinion on him, but can anyone say that he’s done anything yet to justify his alleged transfer fee of £2 million or even a quarter of that sum?
As for Turnbull, it would be interesting to see him in a more attack minded line up.
There's a family fun day at the stadium on Wednesday between 10am-2pm where the players will be training. My nearly 11-year-old reckons that "defensive training will run between 10:00am and 1:59:59pm; attack training will be in the final second".
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Re: Sensible Debate , Part Two
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric the Half a Bee
In fairness to Sludge, Willie Boland did exactly the same and he was Sludge's hero!
We don't need another hero
Thunderdome !
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Re: Sensible Debate , Part Two
Turnbull is a disappointment if we really paid £2million for him! He has hardly made a huge impression.
Siopsis is like Steve Lynex runs around a lot which impresses the fans but actually contributes very little. Sorry showing my age there..
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Re: Sensible Debate , Part Two
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Prophet of Doom
Turnbull is a disappointment if we really paid £2million for him! He has hardly made a huge impression.
Siopsis is like Steve Lynex runs around a lot which impresses the fans but actually contributes very little. Sorry showing my age there..
Thats too far. Lynex was utter shit. Siopsis is a decent player.
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Re: Sensible Debate , Part Two
I'm undecided on Turnbull. Maybe we could try him in a dual 10 role with Ramsey or Colwill but this manager is never going to do that.
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Re: Sensible Debate , Part Two
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Lone Gunman
No. I think Siopis is vastly overrated by many City fans simply because he runs around a lot. His passing is woeful for a midfielder at this level. His work rate is admirable and his ability to win possession is commendable, but it’s usually a waste of time as he so often gives the ball straight back to the opposition. To say he lacks composure is putting it kindly.
I’ve got no firm opinion on Turnbull. He’s shown very little in his ten appearances so far, but he’s playing under a manager who is ridiculously negative and defensive, so it’s probably not fair to judge him just yet.
Against Ipswich Siopis' pass completion rate was 87% [Sofa Score].
StT.
<><
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Re: Sensible Debate , Part Two
Siopis is a workhorse
Does all the dirty work to enable others to shine
In our case that's supposed to be Ramsey who's out injured and colwill , Tanner and bowler who all need to shape up in my opinion
If siopis or ralls or Wintle mess up it can be curtains whereas the forward runners often get out of jail
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Re: Sensible Debate , Part Two
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Steve the Tea
Against Ipswich Siopis' pass completion rate was 87% [Sofa Score].
Wonderful. What about the rest of the season? Or have my eyes been deceiving me?
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Re: Sensible Debate , Part Two
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Lone Gunman
Wonderful. What about the rest of the season? Or have my eyes been deceiving me?
Siopis's stats generally make for good reading as a defensive midfielder. He's ranked 4th in terms of passing accuracy and 3rd for tackles won. However, he doesn't rank well for being dribbled past, has made more errors that have led directly to an opponent's shot than anyone else and offers nothing in any creative way.
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Re: Sensible Debate , Part Two
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Lone Gunman
Wonderful. What about the rest of the season? Or have my eyes been deceiving me?
83.% accurate passes for the 2023-2024 season. [Sofa Score]
StT.
<><
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Re: Sensible Debate , Part Two
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Steve the Tea
83.% accurate passes for the 2023-2024 season. [Sofa Score]
Fair enough. If Sofa Score says so, my eyes must have deceived me. Because I think his passing is woeful. A absolute joke at times for a midfielder at this level. He probably has good stats for his frequent three yard passes, but I’d love to know how they are over ten yards or more.
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Re: Sensible Debate , Part Two
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Lone Gunman
Fair enough. If Sofa Score says so, my eyes must have deceived me. Because I think his passing is woeful. A absolute joke at times for a midfielder at this level. He probably has good stats for his frequent three yard passes, but I’d love to know how they are over ten yards or more.
His mid range passing is more accurate (89.2%) than his short range, however fbref defines mid and short passing.
I'm with you, though. I don't see much in him.
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Re: Sensible Debate , Part Two
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Lone Gunman
Fair enough. If Sofa Score says so, my eyes must have deceived me. Because I think his passing is woeful. A absolute joke at times for a midfielder at this level. He probably has good stats for his frequent three yard passes, but I’d love to know how they are over ten yards or more.
For 2023-2024 season:
Accurate passes in his own half ... 89%
Accurate passes in the opposition half ... 76%
[Sofa Score]
StT.
<><
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Re: Sensible Debate , Part Two
For 2023-2024 season:
Goals: 0
Assists: 0
Quality of play: garbage
(TLG on his sofa)
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Re: Sensible Debate , Part Two
As an avid reader of this forum, I think TOBW has said for seasons all our midfielders are "samey" with tiny nuances
Ralls is destructive with a lob over the full-back as his signature (Warnock) pass
Wintle is destructive, better at defending head-on, with a sideways or backward continuity pass as his goto
Siopis is destructive, a thief ratting around the midfield with a sideways short pass as his signature
If you then add in four defend-first defenders and wide "forwards" who double up with the full-backs,you have to feel for those carrying any "attack"
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Re: Sensible Debate , Part Two
Quote:
Originally Posted by
llan bluebird
As an avid reader of this forum, I think TOBW has said for seasons all our midfielders are "samey" with tiny nuances
Ralls is destructive with a lob over the full-back as his signature (Warnock) pass
Wintle is destructive, better at defending head-on, with a sideways or backward continuity pass as his goto
Siopis is destructive, a thief ratting around the midfield with a sideways short pass as his signature
If you then add in four defend-first defenders and wide "forwards" who double up with the full-backs,you have to feel for those carrying any "attack"
Add in Adams and Rinomhota who are both under contract with us for next season. Eli King was playing at the back for us in pre season and has always struck me as more of a defensive midfielder than an attacking one.
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Re: Sensible Debate , Part Two
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Lone Gunman
For 2023-2024 season:
Goals: 0
Assists: 0
Quality of play: garbage
(TLG on his sofa)
That’s a change in direction after questioning his passing lol.
In your opinion have you ever been wrong and can you provide examples, because it’s impressive how correct you are.. in your opinion. My favourite thing is how you quote part of posts to promote your point.
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Re: Sensible Debate , Part Two
Quote:
Originally Posted by
2b2bdoo
In your opinion have you ever been wrong and can you provide examples, because it’s impressive how correct you are.. in your opinion. My favourite thing is how you quote part of posts to promote your point.
Like most people I’ve been wrong on countless occasions. The best example I can think of was Vincent Tan’s rebrand. Firstly, I didn’t believe any football club owner would be stupid enough to do something like that on a whim, but I was wrong. Secondly, I didn’t believe for a second that the vast majority of Cardiff City fans would willingly surrender their club’s identity in exchange for Malaysian money, but I was hopelessly wrong on that one too.
As for quoting posts, I only quote the bits I’m either taking issue with or directly addressing. I don’t see the point in quoting entire posts if you have nothing to say about the majority of what has been written. Doing so is pretty dumb in my book.
As for Siopis, if his passing really is of a high standard then I must have been watching someone else. As a rule he contributes next to nothing in an attacking sense and he frequently gives the ball away if he’s attempting to pass it more than a few yards. That’s the Siopis I’ve been seeing since he arrived here. But if some obscure stats website says differently and people want to believe he’s good on the ball, then fair enough.
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Re: Sensible Debate , Part Two
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Lone Gunman
Like most people I’ve been wrong on countless occasions. The best example I can think of was Vincent Tan’s rebrand. Firstly, I didn’t believe any football club owner would be stupid enough to do something like that on a whim, but I was wrong. Secondly, I didn’t believe for a second that the vast majority of Cardiff City fans would willingly surrender their club’s identity in exchange for Malaysian money, but I was hopelessly wrong on that one too.
As for quoting posts, I only quote the bits I’m either taking issue with or directly addressing. I don’t see the point in quoting entire posts if you have nothing to say about the majority of what has been written. Doing so is pretty dumb in my book.
As for Siopis, if his passing really is of a high standard then I must have been watching someone else. As a rule he contributes next to nothing in an attacking sense and he frequently gives the ball away if he’s attempting to pass it more than a few yards. That’s the Siopis I’ve been seeing since he arrived here. But if some obscure stats website says differently and people want to believe he’s good on the ball, then fair enough.
Move on people say. But that exact thing (highlighted) broke the spell for me. I'm still angry about it.
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Re: Sensible Debate , Part Two
Those figures for Siopis prove where I was wrong in the past - back in the days under Russell Slade when we’d often be in the thirties when it came to possession, I’d preach that possession was everything. Since then, I’ve learned it’s not - for example, we had comfortably more of the ball (56/44?) than Sunderland on Friday for all of the good it did us and if you ever see a City possession figure in the sixties, it usually means we’ve lost. Passing without enough creativity like City do should be easy because there are few risky passes played, but the lack of basic techniques among some of our players makes even that look hard.
To use an extreme example, a player like DeBruyne could have a passing accuracy rate of one hundred per cent if he was so minded, but he plays many passes with a high risk of failure because he’s trying to be creative and open up defences. Siopis’ job in whichever side he plays in should be to win the ball for his team’s more creative players, but a typical City side usually has up to nine players who are, at best, only capable of playing the very occasional defence splitting pass. We didn’t need Siopis because we had plenty of his type already.
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Re: Sensible Debate , Part Two
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
Am I the only City fan who thinks Siopis is over rated and the sort of player we didn’t need?
As for Turnbull, I’d like to see a bit more of him before coming to a definitive opinion on him, but can anyone say that he’s done anything yet to justify his alleged transfer fee of £2 million or even a quarter of that sum?
No, you’re spot on with Siopis.
Re Turnbull, he’s painfully slow in every sense. Takes so many touches for a start. Again, he’s just as advertised by Celtic fans. Is largely anonymous and is one of the slowest professionals out there.
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Re: Sensible Debate , Part Two
According to who scored, Siopis gives the ball away 6 times a game. He makes 29 accurate passes a game.
I think he’s vastly overrated. He runs around a lot, gets brushed off a lot, gets bullied a lot and gives the ball away a lot. He started off well but he cannot play. He’s nowhere near the standard required of a promotion centre mid. Is he better than Gunnar? Given he’s been dropped for Ralls this season, I can’t see how he’s better than Ralls was in 17/18. People say he’s been brought down to our level, if you put Ampadu in this side, he’d been head and shoulders above everyone else, and given Ampadu is a CM (sometimes CB!) in this division, yes, the comparison is relevant. Or we could compare him to Ndidi, or Downes etc.
Bulut has vastly underestimated how good this league is. It is way more competitive than Turkish football and there is no way we are going to be able to buy our way out of this league worth players as good as Siopis and even Goutas. For a start, they can’t get into a terrible Greece side.
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Re: Sensible Debate , Part Two
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pedro de la Rosa
According to who scored, Siopis gives the ball away 6 times a game. He makes 29 accurate passes a game.
I think he’s vastly overrated. He runs around a lot, gets brushed off a lot, gets bullied a lot and gives the ball away a lot. He started off well but he cannot play. He’s nowhere near the standard required of a promotion centre mid. Is he better than Gunnar? Given he’s been dropped for Ralls this season, I can’t see how he’s better than Ralls was in 17/18. People say he’s been brought down to our level, if you put Ampadu in this side, he’d been head and shoulders above everyone else, and given Ampadu is a CM (sometimes CB!) in this division, yes, the comparison is relevant. Or we could compare him to Ndidi, or Downes etc.
Bulut has vastly underestimated how good this league is. It is way more competitive than Turkish football and there is no way we are going to be able to buy our way out of this league worth players as good as Siopis and even Goutas. For a start, they can’t get into a terrible Greece side.
Don’t disagree with that but sometimes you get what you pay for, Ampadu 7m, Ndidi 17m, Downes 12m. The midfield has been poor for some time and despite Turnbull and Siopis coming in we are no better at solving the issue.
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Re: Sensible Debate , Part Two
Quote:
Originally Posted by
2b2bdoo
Don’t disagree with that but sometimes you get what you pay for, Ampadu 7m, Ndidi 17m, Downes 12m. The midfield has been poor for some time and despite Turnbull and Siopis coming in we are no better at solving the issue.
We are worse, as they’re clogging up wages and fees that could have been spent on someone else. Turnbull is now 4th choice. Siopis isn’t much better than Ralls or Wintle, he certainly doesn’t solve any problems.
We are in the world we live in, it’s not going to get easier to get out of this league. Siopis was described as a “gamechanger” signing. He is anything but.
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Re: Sensible Debate , Part Two
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pedro de la Rosa
We are worse, as they’re clogging up wages and fees that could have been spent on someone else. Turnbull is now 4th choice. Siopis isn’t much better than Ralls or Wintle, he certainly doesn’t solve any problems.
We are in the world we live in, it’s not going to get easier to get out of this league. Siopis was described as a “gamechanger” signing. He is anything but.
Turnbull starts.
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Re: Sensible Debate , Part Two
Quote:
Originally Posted by
2b2bdoo
Turnbull starts.
So on Friday, Turnbull wasn't deemed good enough to come off the bench behind 3 others we tried there and now he starts :hehe:
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Re: Sensible Debate , Part Two
Needs a brutal closed season with Rubin, needs to add a few kg's of muscle onto the pair of them.
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Re: Sensible Debate , Part Two
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Steve the Tea
83.% accurate passes for the 2023-2024 season. [Sofa Score]
StT.
<><
On the surface that looks like a decent stat. However there is 17% pass failure. That 17% could be more sigifigant if he is giving the ball away in our half. As he has had 0 assists this season it would seem that the 83% pass success rate hasn't really benefited us
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Re: Sensible Debate , Part Two
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pedro de la Rosa
According to who scored, Siopis gives the ball away 6 times a game. He makes 29 accurate passes a game.
I think he’s vastly overrated. He runs around a lot, gets brushed off a lot, gets bullied a lot and gives the ball away a lot. He started off well but he cannot play. He’s nowhere near the standard required of a promotion centre mid. Is he better than Gunnar? Given he’s been dropped for Ralls this season, I can’t see how he’s better than Ralls was in 17/18. People say he’s been brought down to our level, if you put Ampadu in this side, he’d been head and shoulders above everyone else, and given Ampadu is a CM (sometimes CB!) in this division, yes, the comparison is relevant. Or we could compare him to Ndidi, or Downes etc.
Bulut has vastly underestimated how good this league is. It is way more competitive than Turkish football and there is no way we are going to be able to buy our way out of this league worth players as good as Siopis and even Goutas. For a start, they can’t get into a terrible Greece side.
Siopis played for Greece last week.
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Re: Sensible Debate , Part Two
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dml1954
Siopis played for Greece last week.
Came off the bench when they lost to ten man Georgia. He doesn't start.
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Re: Sensible Debate , Part Two
Ralls and Siopis gave us a good base today, Turnbull was composed on the ball as well.
I noticed NG drifted infield a lot today but its still so static and safe. It worked again today but the wingers have to work miracles as they are 1 against 2 with little support as Ng was a midfielder in possession and Collins isn't trusted to cross halfway
Two sitters is fine but there needs to be more attacking intent on the flanks and that will cost money
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Re: Sensible Debate , Part Two
Quote:
Originally Posted by
llan bluebird
Ralls and Siopis gave us a good base today, Turnbull was composed on the ball as well.
I noticed NG drifted infield a lot today but its still so static and safe. It worked again today but the wingers have to work miracles as they are 1 against 2 with little support as Ng was a midfielder in possession and Collins isn't trusted to cross halfway
Two sitters is fine but there needs to be more attacking intent on the flanks and that will cost money
I only seen the second half but thought Collins did better than he had previously.
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Re: Sensible Debate , Part Two
Thought he did well today but he’s not a 10, longer term replacement for Ralls as the 8 as he brings the ball forward well and looks solid between both boxes. I’d think he’s got enough to be a very decent player at this level if Bulut trusts him.
I’d like to see him play Turnbull and Ralls with Colwill/Ramsey in the 10 at home for the rest of the campaign where possible, that’s a midfield that should allow us to play on the front foot a bit.
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Re: Sensible Debate , Part Two
Quote:
Originally Posted by
2b2bdoo
I only seen the second half but thought Collins did better than he had previously.
Started shaky and was targeted often early including for the goal, was ready to write him off but then he was good for the last 60-70 mins IMO, encouraging performance