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Labour broke equalities law over anti-Semitism
Party "responsible for unlawful acts of harassment and discrimination".
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54730425
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Re: Labour broke equalities law over anti-Semitism
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
Well, that was pretty damning.
Can Corbyn keep his position within the party after this? If he stays on it will be an albatross around the neck of Labour, surely.
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Re: Labour broke equalities law over anti-Semitism
Corbyn's been suspended
I'm sure Welsh Labour are delighted with the news of a Labour civil war in the run up to next May's Senedd election
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Re: Labour broke equalities law over anti-Semitism
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54730425
Corbyn has been suspended and has had his whip removed (apparently).
Edit:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...eport-comments
he has definitely had his whip removed.
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Re: Labour broke equalities law over anti-Semitism
I have just finished reading the report.
There are plenty of well evidenced points and recommendations about process failures and lack of both independence and training for the unit leading on investigations. Also a powerful set of comparisons between clear policies and the management of sexism complaints and those of anti-semitism (although generally ethnicity and religion are well referenced in policies, procedures and website links). In a few sections the report identifies mistreatment of respondents as well as complainants, and notes allegations that the party machine in the early days of Corbyn's leadership was slow timing and manipulating outcomes through private social media groups.
There are examples given of clearly anti-semitic views expressed - mainly on social media: hatred of Jewish people, anti semitic tropes; and suggesting that Jewish people are responsible for the actions of the Israeli state.
There is also a consistent conflation of criticism of Israel with anti-Jewish prejudice, a failure to recognise satire, a failure to acknowledge that Zionism is a political ideology, a total refusal to allow anyone to identify an 'Israel Lobby' that acts with and on behalf of the Israeli state (to imply that is anti semitic!), and refusal to see complaints of a witch hunt or anti-Corbyn agenda through false anti semitism complaints (despite all the evidence for this) as anything other than more anti semitism.
Now Corbyn has been suspended and Starmer has decided that the Jewish Labour Movement (proudly Zionist and a protagonist in the recent civil war) will take the lead on internal training for party members and bodies.
I'm not surprised by any of this - but I am depressed. What is clear though is that there are a raft of recommendations in the report that virtually everyone in Labour should be able to support, and that if they are implemented will make things better. There are also a few recommendations for which the opposite is true.
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Re: Labour broke equalities law over anti-Semitism
Sir Kier is a brave man suspending a former leader of the Labour Party , few more buried inside the party sadly .
Even after this morniing published report Corbyn couldn't just say sorry, just launched into blame culture , not really leadership standards.
To think the (EHRC) admirably created by Labour in 2010 deliveres a damming verdict on its own behaviour , they even find his own office culpable in interference, sadly Corbyn and his like hung around far too long and helped deliver a Boris victory.
Let's hope Sir Kier steers the party to a better future , Labour is better than this .
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Re: Labour broke equalities law over anti-Semitism
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
Sir Kier is a brave man suspending a former leader of the Labour Party , few more buried inside the party sadly .
Even after this morniing published report Corbyn couldn't just say sorry, just launched into blame culture , not really leadership standards.
To think the (EHRC) admirably created by Labour in 2010 deliveres a damming verdict on its own behaviour , they even find his own office culpable in interference, sadly Corbyn and his like hung around far too long and helped deliver a Boris victory.
Let's hope Sir Kier steers the party to a better future , Labour is better than this .
My guess is that this will play well with "middle ground" voters, but Labour can expect a few more years of the introspective civil wars that it has specialised in for most of my life. I seem to have been saying this for the last five years and under three different Prime Ministers, but we have the worst Government I've seen led by the worst Prime Minister I've seen and we're in real need of a competent and united opposition, but I can't help thinking that there are many in the Labour Party who don't see Johnson and co as the real enemy.
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Re: Labour broke equalities law over anti-Semitism
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
My guess is that this will play well with "middle ground" voters, but Labour can expect a few more years of the introspective civil wars that it has specialised in for most of my life. I seem to have been saying this for the last five years and under three different Prime Ministers, but we have the worst Government I've seen led by the worst Prime Minister I've seen and we're in real need of a competent and united opposition, but I can't help thinking that there are many in the Labour Party who don't see Johnson and co as the real enemy.
Boris worse than Thatcher?
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Re: Labour broke equalities law over anti-Semitism
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
My guess is that this will play well with "middle ground" voters, but Labour can expect a few more years of the introspective civil wars that it has specialised in for most of my life. I seem to have been saying this for the last five years and under three different Prime Ministers, but we have the worst Government I've seen led by the worst Prime Minister I've seen and we're in real need of a competent and united opposition, but I can't help thinking that there are many in the Labour Party who don't see Johnson and co as the real enemy.
I agree with most of that.
The factionalism exists on both (all?) sides, and whilst it sounds right that all parts of the Labour Party should bury their differences and unite to fight the Tories, it's not so easy if you don't trust or agree with many on your own side. Especially if you have been subjected to constant online abuse, been briefed against in the media, and subjected to internal administrative/disciplinary processes that you think are unfair and designed to exclude or silence you.
I'm not sure what's really going on in the Labour Party - I rejoined in November and have been to a few events before everything shut down and now rely on mailings and remote contact. I get most of my information (if that is the right word - maybe opinion is better) about the national party from the media. Starmer has disappointed many of his supporters and alienated most of the left, and it feels to me that the civil war will carry on for years - maybe alongside periods of ceasefire and distrustful co-existence. But as you say he may have scored with 'middle ground' voters and won plaudits from the national broadcast and print media - so will probably be happy.
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Re: Labour broke equalities law over anti-Semitism
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
Sir Kier is a brave man suspending a former leader of the Labour Party , few more buried inside the party sadly .
Even after this morniing published report Corbyn couldn't just say sorry, just launched into blame culture , not really leadership standards.
To think the (EHRC) admirably created by Labour in 2010 deliveres a damming verdict on its own behaviour , they even find his own office culpable in interference, sadly Corbyn and his like hung around far too long and helped deliver a Boris victory.
Let's hope Sir Kier steers the party to a better future , Labour is better than this .
I tend to agree with you but for probably different reasons. I thought and think it astounding that the upper echelons of the Labour Party allowed a tag of racism/anti-semitism to stick and, judging by today's report, take political steps to ensure that it wasn't shaken off.
Regardless of the rights and wrongs this is inept politics. I am not sure how many votes walking on the highwire of being anti-zionist won but it definitely was not as many as being portrayed as anti-semetic lost. How many previous Labour voters could give a shit but saw this as introspective indulgence is anyone's guess.
Whether Jeremy was wronged after his statement it takes him back into his comfort zone as rebel and martyr regardless of political cost which I am sure play out in the coming weeks and months.
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Re: Labour broke equalities law over anti-Semitism
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
I agree with most of that.
The factionalism exists on both (all?) sides, and whilst it sounds right that all parts of the Labour Party should bury their differences and unite to fight the Tories, it's not so easy if you don't trust or agree with many on your own side. Especially if you have been subjected to constant online abuse, been briefed against in the media, and subjected to internal administrative/disciplinary processes that you think are unfair and designed to exclude or silence you.
I'm not sure what's really going on in the Labour Party - I rejoined in November and have been to a few events before everything shut down and now rely on mailings and remote contact. I get most of my information (if that is the right word - maybe opinion is better) about the national party from the media. Starmer has disappointed many of his supporters and alienated most of the left, and it feels to me that the civil war will carry on for years - maybe alongside periods of ceasefire and distrustful co-existence. But as you say he may have scored with 'middle ground' voters and won plaudits from the national broadcast and print media - so will probably be happy.
Well that's answered the question I posed in my separate thread then!!!
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Re: Labour broke equalities law over anti-Semitism
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
Boris worse than Thatcher?
Much, much worse - I couldn't stand her, but she had a lot of the qualities a Prime Minister needs, for a start she didn't have the thin skin so many of today's "strongman" leaders possess.
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Re: Labour broke equalities law over anti-Semitism
I think the actual suspension may have come from the mechanism of the Labour Party procedures not solely from Sir Kier, and potentially could have been avoided if JC hadn't bought the party into dispute this morning by minimising the issue and report, which may have
breached party policy and goes against the leadership stance and standards of the (EHRC) report . Labour has to enforce the action plan by December 10th.
Perhaps the bigger issue is further down the road if they readmit Jeremy to the party and will others follow ?
Added to this Mcdonald is making noises that the suspension is unfair.
Labours big donor and Jeremy's backer Len of Unite, will not keep quiet.
I should imagine there is a defence group being built as we speak .
Sad for Sir Kier as he's done well, thin rocky times are ahead as a left v centre left battle returns , hasn't that been the battle though over many decades which has adversely effected Labour and allowed the Tories a safe ride.
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Re: Labour broke equalities law over anti-Semitism
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
I think the actual suspension may have come from the mechanism of the Labour Party procedures not solely from Sir Kier, and potentially could have been avoided if JC hadn't bought the party into dispute this morning by minimising the issue and report, which may have
breached party policy and goes against the leadership stance and standards of the (EHRC) report . Labour has to enforce the action plan by December 10th.
Perhaps the bigger issue is further down the road if they readmit Jeremy to the party and will others follow ?
Added to this Mcdonald is making noises that the suspension is unfair.
Labours big donor and Jeremy's backer Len of Unite, will not keep quiet.
I should imagine there is a defence group being built as we speak .
Sad for Sir Kier as he's done well, thin rocky times are ahead as a left v centre left battle returns , hasn't that been the battle though over many decades which has adversely effected Labour and allowed the Tories a safe ride.
You think a mechanism suspended him?
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Re: Labour broke equalities law over anti-Semitism
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cyril evans awaydays
You think a mechanism suspended him?
Internal mechanism or procedures that sit in the Labour party you know what I mean , mechanism can be used to describe "" a process or system that is used to produce a particular result. : a way of acting, thinking, or behaving that helps or protects a person in a specified way.""
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Re: Labour broke equalities law over anti-Semitism
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
Internal mechanism or procedures that sit in the Labour party you know what I mean , mechanism can be used to describe "" a process or system that is used to produce a particular result. : a way of acting, thinking, or behaving that helps or protects a person in a specified way.""
Do you think the mechanism was just there and some Artificial Intelligence waiting for reports triggered it into life?
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Re: Labour broke equalities law over anti-Semitism
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cyril evans awaydays
I tend to agree with you but for probably different reasons. I thought and think it astounding that the upper echelons of the Labour Party allowed a tag of racism/anti-semitism to stick and, judging by today's report, take political steps to ensure that it wasn't shaken off.
Regardless of the rights and wrongs this is inept politics. I am not sure how many votes walking on the highwire of being anti-zionist won but it definitely was not as many as being portrayed as anti-semetic lost. How many previous Labour voters could give a shit but saw this as introspective indulgence is anyone's guess.
Whether Jeremy was wronged after his statement it takes him back into his comfort zone as rebel and martyr regardless of political cost which I am sure play out in the coming weeks and months.
The report is pretty thin on detail of unlawful behaviour but this will be a case study in politics 101 at uni for years to come - how to completely **** up managing a political scandal, incompetence doesn't really cut it.
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Re: Labour broke equalities law over anti-Semitism
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
I think the actual suspension may have come from the mechanism of the Labour Party procedures not solely from Sir Kier, and potentially could have been avoided if JC hadn't bought the party into dispute this morning by minimising the issue and report, which may have
breached party policy and goes against the leadership stance and standards of the (EHRC) report . Labour has to enforce the action plan by December 10th.
Perhaps the bigger issue is further down the road if they readmit Jeremy to the party and will others follow ?
Added to this Mcdonald is making noises that the suspension is unfair.
Labours big donor and Jeremy's backer Len of Unite, will not keep quiet.
I should imagine there is a defence group being built as we speak .
Sad for Sir Kier as he's done well, thin rocky times are ahead as a left v centre left battle returns , hasn't that been the battle though over many decades which has adversely effected Labour and allowed the Tories a safe ride.
Especially sad for him since by next election you will on here calling him a marxist and saying how Labour needs a proper old school socialist in charge.
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Re: Labour broke equalities law over anti-Semitism
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric Cartman
Especially sad for him since by next election you will on here calling him a marxist and saying how Labour needs a proper old school socialist in charge.
Indeed.
You see all you need to see about LoM's commitment to Anti-Semitism by responding to the following quiz.
When LoM realised that 11 innocent people praying at a Synagogue in Pittsburgh were massacred by a right wing extremist did he say:
a) This is the consequence of the anti-semetic tropes of political parties that should know better or
b) It's been going on since Billy the kid
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Re: Labour broke equalities law over anti-Semitism
Well it can't be because of tropes of political parties since it predates them by about 2000 years.
You're right - he makes a powerful point, but of course he understates it because it was going on long before Billy the Kid.
I also think he's a bit optimistic about the level of education here in assuming that everyone would know the connection between Wiiliam Bonnie and anti semitism.
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Re: Labour broke equalities law over anti-Semitism
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RonnieBird
Well it can't be because of tropes of political parties since it predates them by about 2000 years.
You're right - he makes a powerful point, but of course he understates it because it was going on long before Billy the Kid.
I also think he's a bit optimistic about the level of education here in assuming that everyone would know the connection between Wiiliam Bonnie and anti semitism.
Pseudo-intellectual claptrap is as good a mask for LoM's hypocrisy on anti-semitism as any I suppose.
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Re: Labour broke equalities law over anti-Semitism
Which presumably means that you didn't understand his reference.
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Re: Labour broke equalities law over anti-Semitism
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RonnieBird
Which presumably means that you didn't understand his reference.
I rarely do to be honest. In this instance LoM, who like you cant resist showing his anti-semetic credentials (though he does blanche at Israeli Air Force Fly-Past videos) responded to a massacre at a Jewish synagogue in Pittsburgh.
Rather than show his horror and point out yet another crime perpetrated against the Jewish people he instead simply said it's been going on since Billy the Kid and left it at that.
https://www.ccmb.co.uk/showthread.ph...-America-again
It seems you want to imbue some deep meaning into these seemingly callous and uncaring remarks. If so fire away we could do with a laugh in these tough times.
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Re: Labour broke equalities law over anti-Semitism
And still the denial goes on and on folk simply can't see that Labour won't be electable whilst making light of obvious racism within its ranks of supporters as it thunders on in denial .
You can always tell when folk struggle to accept they or their party were wrong , they become childish,and personal , very much in the way of the antisemitism that exists in parts of the party they support , it explains a lot really , as they line up to defend Corbyn and his group ,they cannot accept responsibility orfindvtge decency to apologise for the hurt that this has created not just to the Jewish community but to the Labour party and the decent lost Labour voters.
I do find it amusing they are now at odds with their new leader over this issue, real classy stuff ,who will they vote for if they don't agree with Sir Kier and feel Corbyn is a victim of the media and other evil forces, will they remain in denial !!!, will they force another Boris victory upon us by the act of this denial and narrow mindsets within its supporters ( always in denial, always in opposition )
Who will they vote for when Sir Keir centralises the party ,rips the left apart in readiness for a real Labour party that will appeal to all parts of the nation , not just
a one eyed dated Maxist projects whipped up by the elite wealthy London lefties , like Milne with its in house nastiness and chosen racism .
Sir Kier should plan for power by :
Banning Momentum
Clean up Labour Youth Party bullying
Never let Corbyn back
Ban on mass his backers like : Chris Williamson, Livingstone, Fisher, Murphy , McCluskey. Milne and thier current 'Zoom ' War Council .
Finally refuse Unites unhealthy controlling bounty and your voters will return in swaves , and yes I'm one of them.
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Re: Labour broke equalities law over anti-Semitism
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
And still the denial goes on and on folk simply can't see that Labour won't be electable whilst making light of obvious racism within its ranks of supporters as it thunders on in denial .
You can always tell when folk struggle to accept they or their party were wrong , they become childish,and personal , very much in the way of the antisemitism that exists in parts of the party they support , it explains a lot really , as they line up to defend Corbyn and his group ,they cannot accept responsibility orfindvtge decency to apologise for the hurt that this has created not just to the Jewish community but to the Labour party and the decent lost Labour voters.
I do find it amusing they are now at odds with their new leader over this issue, real classy stuff ,who will they vote for if they don't agree with Sir Kier and feel Corbyn is a victim of the media and other evil forces, will they remain in denial !!!, will they force another Boris victory upon us by the act of this denial and narrow mindsets within its supporters ( always in denial, always in opposition )
Who will they vote for when Sir Keir centralises the party ,rips the left apart in readiness for a real Labour party that will appeal to all parts of the nation , not just
a one eyed dated Maxist projects whipped up by the elite wealthy London lefties , like Milne with its in house nastiness and chosen racism .
Sir Kier should plan for power by :
Banning Momentum
Clean up Labour Youth Party bullying
Never let Corbyn back
Ban on mass his backers like : Chris Williamson, Livingstone, Fisher, Murphy , McCluskey. Milne and thier current 'Zoom ' War Council .
Finally refuse Unites unhealthy controlling bounty and your voters will return in swaves , and yes I'm one of them.
Aw bless, nice to get that off your chest. Not sure what folk you are talking about but please start with me in your lining up to defend Corbyn rant with any evidence you wish to bring to the party.
I am deeply impressed how your concern for the Jewish people and their suffering seems so at odds with your views about naturally born British people being overwhelmed in their own cities, badging the whole Chinese race as being responsible for the acts of the Chinese government and your indifference to the plight of impressionable teenage girls being manipulated by powerful men.
And while you are at it tell me what you meant by the Billy the Kid quote as Ronnie thinks you are on the money!
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Re: Labour broke equalities law over anti-Semitism
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cyril evans awaydays
Aw bless, nice to get that off your chest. Not sure what folk you are talking about but please start with me in your lining up to defend Corbyn rant with any evidence you wish to bring to the party.
I am deeply impressed how your concern for the Jewish people and their suffering seems so at odds with your views about naturally born British people being overwhelmed in their own cities, badging the whole Chinese race as being responsible for the acts of the Chinese government and your indifference to the plight of impressionable teenage girls being manipulated by powerful men.
And while you are at it tell me what you meant by the Billy the Kid quote as Ronnie thinks you are on the money!
I'm deeply worried we have a electable Labour party to get behind and your not best pleased , your trying to point score and trivialised a very serious matter , I know deafet is tough and truth hurts ,Labour has been found guilty, its not about me or what I say and do , its about caring for the Jewish people who have suffered under a nasty party you supported I understand how tough it is but it's a loss ,move on .
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Re: Labour broke equalities law over anti-Semitism
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cyril evans awaydays
Aw bless, nice to get that off your chest. Not sure what folk you are talking about but please start with me in your lining up to defend Corbyn rant with any evidence you wish to bring to the party.
I am deeply impressed how your concern for the Jewish people and their suffering seems so at odds with your views about naturally born British people being overwhelmed in their own cities, badging the whole Chinese race as being responsible for the acts of the Chinese government and your indifference to the plight of impressionable teenage girls being manipulated by powerful men.
And while you are at it tell me what you meant by the Billy the Kid quote as Ronnie thinks you are on the money!
I know LOM sees what he wants to but I was actually surprised at how Corbyn's nearest and dearest weren't lining up to spit feathers at the decision to suspend him.
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Re: Labour broke equalities law over anti-Semitism
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
And still the denial goes on and on folk simply can't see that Labour won't be electable whilst making light of obvious racism within its ranks of supporters as it thunders on in denial .
You can always tell when folk struggle to accept they or their party were wrong , they become childish,and personal , very much in the way of the antisemitism that exists in parts of the party they support , it explains a lot really , as they line up to defend Corbyn and his group ,they cannot accept responsibility orfindvtge decency to apologise for the hurt that this has created not just to the Jewish community but to the Labour party and the decent lost Labour voters.
I do find it amusing they are now at odds with their new leader over this issue, real classy stuff ,who will they vote for if they don't agree with Sir Kier and feel Corbyn is a victim of the media and other evil forces, will they remain in denial !!!, will they force another Boris victory upon us by the act of this denial and narrow mindsets within its supporters ( always in denial, always in opposition )
Who will they vote for when Sir Keir centralises the party ,rips the left apart in readiness for a real Labour party that will appeal to all parts of the nation , not just
a one eyed dated Maxist projects whipped up by the elite wealthy London lefties , like Milne with its in house nastiness and chosen racism .
Sir Kier should plan for power by :
Banning Momentum
Clean up Labour Youth Party bullying
Never let Corbyn back
Ban on mass his backers like : Chris Williamson, Livingstone, Fisher, Murphy , McCluskey. Milne and thier current 'Zoom ' War Council .
Finally refuse Unites unhealthy controlling bounty and your voters will return in swaves , and yes I'm one of them.
I am pretty sure Starmer wouldn't want your backing based on some of the awful things you have said on here.
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Re: Labour broke equalities law over anti-Semitism
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
I'm deeply worried we have a electable Labour party to get behind and your not best pleased , your trying to point score and trivialised a very serious matter , I know deafet is tough and truth hurts ,Labour has been found guilty, its not about me or what I say and do , its about caring for the Jewish people who have suffered under a nasty party you supported I understand how tough it is but it's a loss ,move on .
It is fascinating trying to understand your thought processes and it is about you and what you say and do!
Like your "mates" you wander around stuffing words in people's mouths they never uttered whilst crying every time your actual words are played back to you.
Yesterday, and not for the first time, I gave my views on Corbyn's stupidity on this issue. Happy to play all the others back. Let me know if you are uncomfortable with that.
In the meantime what exactly did you mean when using Billy the Kid as the justification for the slaughter of 11 Jews in Pittsburgh?
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Re: Labour broke equalities law over anti-Semitism
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric Cartman
I know LOM sees what he wants to but I was actually surprised at how Corbyn's nearest and dearest weren't lining up to spit feathers at the decision to suspend him.
As I said yesterday he seems back in his comfort zone. Martyrdom and rebellion come easier to him than responsibility and leadership.
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Re: Labour broke equalities law over anti-Semitism
"" those who deny there is a problem are part of the problem ""
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Re: Labour broke equalities law over anti-Semitism
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
"" those who deny there is a problem are part of the problem ""
:tumbleweed:
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Re: Labour broke equalities law over anti-Semitism
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Heisenberg
:tumbleweed:
*Originally Posted by*life on mars*
"" those who deny there is a problem are part of the problem ""
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Re: Labour broke equalities law over anti-Semitism
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
*Originally Posted by*life on mars*
"" those who deny there is a problem are part of the problem ""
:tumbleweed:
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Re: Labour broke equalities law over anti-Semitism
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
"" those who deny there is a problem are part of the problem ""
That is some scary authoritarian shit right there.
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Re: Labour broke equalities law over anti-Semitism
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric Cartman
That is some scary authoritarian shit right there.
It sounds like something out of a fascist rulebook. No dissent will be countenanced. It seems a neat attempt to silence people.
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Re: Labour broke equalities law over anti-Semitism
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dorcus
It sounds like something out of a fascist rulebook. No dissent will be countenanced. It seems a neat attempt to silence people.
Tell that to jewish people effected by this ideological and mindset ,which sadly exists in a mainstream party , if you have any doubts speak to your new leader who said "" those who deny there is a problem are part of the problem ""
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Re: Labour broke equalities law over anti-Semitism
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
Tell that to jewish people effected by this ideological and mindset ,which sadly exists in a mainstream party , if you have any doubts speak to your new leader who said "" those who deny there is a problem are part of the problem ""
I can't remember any published "anti-Semitic' remarks by Labour members being anything more than criticisms of Zionist hegemony over the Palestinian people. From the reported examples I would comment that some made the remarks more crudely than others did. However, nothing on the published examples struck me as being offensive to Jewish people. To me, it was nowhere near as offensive as calling Welsh people "sheepshaggers", an epithet which is like water off a duck's back to me.
If I could meet up with Keir Starmer I would tell him that his comments are both unfair and unwise. His action in dismissing Jeremy Corbyn from the Labour party was cruel and high handed.
I can understand why he chose to do it, he wants to make Labour electable again and I concur entirely with this aim but not at the expense of people who have deep seated and compassionate views on the tyranny imposed on a group of people to whom the West has largely turned its back because they don't have the influence within the circles of power.
However, Keir Starmer is our only bet at the moment to oust this wretched Brexit cult which passes for our government so apart from this issue he gets my support.
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Re: Labour broke equalities law over anti-Semitism
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dorcus
I can't remember any published "anti-Semitic' remarks by Labour members being anything more than criticisms of Zionist hegemony over the Palestinian people. From the reported examples I would comment that some made the remarks more crudely than others did. However, nothing on the published examples struck me as being offensive to Jewish people. To me, it was nowhere near as offensive as calling Welsh people "sheepshaggers", an epithet which is like water off a duck's back to me.
If I could meet up with Keir Starmer I would tell him that his comments are both unfair and unwise. His action in dismissing Jeremy Corbyn from the Labour party was cruel and high handed.
I can understand why he chose to do it, he wants to make Labour electable again and I concur entirely with this aim but not at the expense of people who have deep seated and compassionate views on the tyranny imposed on a group of people to whom the West has largely turned its back because they don't have the influence within the circles of power.
However, Keir Starmer is our only bet at the moment to oust this wretched Brexit cult which passes for our government so apart from this issue he gets my support.
I think the only calculated act here was Corbyn's. If you accept Rawnseley's explanation of events then after his flirtation with power then Jeremy is back where he is most comfortable. The question is more what damage is he prepared to unleash to achieve the martyr status he seems to relish.
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...mitism-scandal
It also includes Starmer's actual quote just in case LoM wants to go wild with bold and font changes again!
“If, after all the pain, all the grief, and all the evidence in this report, there are still those who think there’s no problem with antisemitism in the Labour party, that it’s all exaggerated, or a factional attack, then, frankly, you are part of the problem too and you should be nowhere near the Labour party either.”
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Re: Labour broke equalities law over anti-Semitism
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cyril evans awaydays
I think the only calculated act here was Corbyn's. If you accept Rawnseley's explanation of events then after his flirtation with power then Jeremy is back where he is most comfortable. The question is more what damage is he prepared to unleash to achieve the martyr status he seems to relish.
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...mitism-scandal
It also includes Starmer's actual quote just in case LoM wants to go wild with bold and font changes again!
“If, after all the pain, all the grief, and all the evidence in this report, there are still those who think there’s no problem with antisemitism in the Labour party, that it’s all exaggerated, or a factional attack, then, frankly, you are part of the problem too and you should be nowhere near the Labour party either.”
I think the Rawnsley 'explanation' is bullshit and I am sorry you are promoting it.
There have clearly been examples of antisemitism in the Labour Party - in line with that in wider society and other parties - although the EHRC report adds very little to what was previously in the public domain. The two main case studies (one is Ken Livingston) are very thin, and many of the examples given are where an antisemtitic intent is assumed without evidence! However, whilst thin (and with no allegations about Corbyn himself) there are some appalling examples derived from the 70 case files that were examined (58 put forward by the Jewish Labour Movement and the Camapign Against Antisemitism and 12 by the Labour Party).
It implies a definition of antisemitism that allows it to denounce anyone who claims that political enemies used the crisis for factional purposes (they did) or that the press exaggerated the prevalence of allegations (they did) which is very different from convictions. The report did though dissect the way allegations were managed and investigated - and made a series of recommendations that almost anyone could support. Corbyn supported the recommendations. He refused to accept every line in the EHRC report (quite rightly) and put out a statement that generally accepted the report whilst repeating again his view that the crisis had been manipulated and that it had been reported in a way that gave the public (and the Jewish communities) an impression of case numbers that was 1000x the reality.
What Corbyn said on publication of the report was to my mind fair and reasonable. The way Starmer characterised it was false and dishonest. Starmer (not Corbyn) has acted to escalate the issue and has lost any control he had. He is now being pushed to suspend another 20-30 leading figures, including half of the Campaign Group of MPs. Interestingly he has directly intervened in the internal party process, contrary to his own claims (but subsequently came clean on TV), and doing exactly what the EHRC denounced in their report.
Several years ago Clive Lewis (before he stepped down from the leadership contest) made a very powerful speech in which he argued it was possible (because it was true) for there to be both incidents of antisemitism in the party and for those incidents to be misused and misrepresented for factional purposes. That's where I am today after reading the report and acres of reaction from all sides over recent days.
I hope the process recommendations are implemented quickly and that there is clarity and fairness for people who feel they are victims, but also for those who are accused (frequently falsely over recent years - with a minority of the accused being sanctioned). I also hope that the rising number of incidents of antisemitism in the UK get more attention that anti-zionist tweets by obscure Labour councillors! The real victims of this crisis are not the main protagonists but the victims in the UK who don't have a united and effective anti racist party to stand with them, and the victims in Gaza, the West Bank and the refugee camps who have had their voices silenced and their repression 'normalised'!