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Omicron No more than a cold ?
When this super spreader variation of the covid virus arrived we were told to brace ourselves for the worst .
Except from the South Africans, were it originated said it wasn't anywhere near as dangerous as Delta. (Thats not headline news though is it?) There is a report coming out of Scotland today saying the same thing .
I have been looking for hospital figures and deaths but there doesn't appear to be the same appetite to publish them at the moment .
Am I missing the point , or have the government massively overreacted?
Happy to be put straight on this one.
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Re: Omicron No more than a cold ?
They are blagging it we need to wait a bit longer, a bit longer, a bit longer…..lots of reports out though saying it is a milder version, easier to transmit but doesn’t get as far into the lungs to cause the same damage as Delta. I guess they want to be uber sure before we all strip naked and run around the streets
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Re: Omicron No more than a cold ?
when Prof Doom & Gloom stood either side of Boris and told us the Omicron would double every 2 and 1/2 days, it looks bad
Well last week the new cases were 90K each day, yesterday they were 100k , they massively got it wrong, it should be over 1/2 mill new cases by tomorrow, its not, its 100k
Tuesday ( I think ) the UK had 44 deaths from people testing C19+ in the last 28 days, thats 44 deaths ( of course 44 too many )
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Re: Omicron No more than a cold ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jimmy the Jock
When this super spreader variation of the covid virus arrived we were told to brace ourselves for the worst .
Except from the South Africans, were it originated said it wasn't anywhere near as dangerous as Delta. (Thats not headline news though is it?) There is a report coming out of Scotland today saying the same thing .
I have been looking for hospital figures and deaths but there doesn't appear to be the same appetite to publish them at the moment .
Am I missing the point , or have the government massively overreacted?
Happy to be put straight on this one.
The other day, Duckford was asked by two reporters, “could they see the figures”
Duckford looked flustered, as he gave a 10 page answer, which was basically, NO
The guy is engulfed in his own importance
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Re: Omicron No more than a cold ?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51768274
These figures are slightly higher than yours Matt.
But 194 more people admitted to hospital.. surely that is a nothing figure , how many people get admitted with flu each day?
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Re: Omicron No more than a cold ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
blue matt
when Prof Doom & Gloom stood either side of Boris and told us the Omicron would double every 2 and 1/2 days, it looks bad
Well last week the new cases were 90K each day, yesterday they were 100k , they massively got it wrong, it should be over 1/2 mill new cases by tomorrow, its not, its 100k
Tuesday ( I think ) the UK had 44 deaths from people testing C19+ in the last 28 days, thats 44 deaths ( of course 44 too many )
Depends how you look at the data. If it was 90k a day then it doubled every 2 days
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Re: Omicron No more than a cold ?
I think up to yesterday there had been 12 deaths in the UK due to Omicron.
Lets hope it is milder. But comparisons to a cold? Not sure of being that hopeful.
How many people die of a cold each year?
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Re: Omicron No more than a cold ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hilts
I think up to yesterday there had been 12 deaths in the UK due to Omicron.
Lets hope it is milder. But comparisons to a cold? Not sure of being that hopeful.
How many people die of a cold each year?
Would you have preferred the flu as a comparison?
Apparently kills 25,000 people each year.
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Re: Omicron No more than a cold ?
Just 2,300 new cases in Wales in the last twenty four hours. About ten days ago, there was talk that Omicron was reproducing at such a rate that, technically, every one in the UK could have it by New Years Day - speaking as someone who has largely favoured a cautious approach in the last two years, that’s clearly not happening is it. Furthermore, we’re now getting reports from the UK which, while not quite in the league of the earlier ones from South Africa, do back up the view that, thankfully, Omicron is not as bad as Delta and yet, the message from Government does not seem to have changed to reflect this.
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Re: Omicron No more than a cold ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jimmy the Jock
When this super spreader variation of the covid virus arrived we were told to brace ourselves for the worst .
Except from the South Africans, were it originated said it wasn't anywhere near as dangerous as Delta. (Thats not headline news though is it?) There is a report coming out of Scotland today saying the same thing .
I have been looking for hospital figures and deaths but there doesn't appear to be the same appetite to publish them at the moment .
Am I missing the point , or have the government massively overreacted?
Happy to be put straight on this one.
I think were now in fear factor world , as leader of any administration around the world you just cant take a risk .
For the UK I think the English route of self responsibility measures seems to be the better option at this moment in time ( time will tell though as were in Covid political point scoring world now )
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Re: Omicron No more than a cold ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jimmy the Jock
Would you have preferred the flu as a comparison?
Apparently kills 25,000 people each year.
Im really hoping its milder than the flu.
I also dont know the comparison on the transmission comparisons between flu and omicron.
The problem is if its the equivalent of flu this virus is spreading so fast then the NHS is going to be in trouble quickly.
Not just the NHS with staff of sick and isolating but all businesses including essential public services.
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Re: Omicron No more than a cold ?
Isn't it wonderful that the scientists may have got it wrong? No doubt that the information is sketchy and the lack of any real positivity from the bods who make the decisions does have a negative effect on the population in my opinion, although there does seem the usual amount of paranoia in this thread. When has somebody who works high up in the medical profession ever given the best case scenario? They always give out the worst case.
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Re: Omicron No more than a cold ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tuerto
Isn't it wonderful that the scientists may have got it wrong? No doubt that the information is sketchy and the lack of any real positivity from the bods who make the decisions does have a negative effect on the population in my opinion, although there does seem the usual amount of paranoia in this thread. When has somebody who works high up in the medical profession ever given the best case scenario? They always give out the worst case.
Where is the paranoia?
I have followed the rules up to now ,pretty much understood the dangers, this feels like nonsense . I started the thread in case I am missing the point..
Hilts mentioning people being off work has a degree of something to be considered.
If Omicron is just a cold/flu , surely we just need to get on with it ?
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Re: Omicron No more than a cold ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tuerto
Isn't it wonderful that the scientists may have got it wrong? No doubt that the information is sketchy and the lack of any real positivity from the bods who make the decisions does have a negative effect on the population in my opinion, although there does seem the usual amount of paranoia in this thread. When has somebody who works high up in the medical profession ever given the best case scenario? They always give out the worst case.
Scientists are well aware that they get things wrong as they may have incomplete information/data in the first place. Many of them actually enjoy learning that they are wrong if it means that they subsequently learn more about any particular subject. Science means knowledge after all.
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Re: Omicron No more than a cold ?
My son has tested positive for Omicron this week - symptoms not as bad as a winter cold, any other virus he would go to work and get through the day. so everyone I know who's had it say's it's fcuk all.
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Re: Omicron No more than a cold ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Whisperer
My son has tested positive for Omicron this week - symptoms not as bad as a winter cold, any other virus he would go to work and get through the day. so everyone I know who's had it say's it's fcuk all.
The data coming in seems to indicate that the Omicron virus affect the windpipe more than other strains of Covid, which makes it more contagious - but affects the lungs less than other strains and which means it is not generally so debilitating.
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Re: Omicron No more than a cold ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Whisperer
My son has tested positive for Omicron this week - symptoms not as bad as a winter cold, any other virus he would go to work and get through the day. so everyone I know who's had it say's it's fcuk all.
Thats been the case with all the variants though for the majority.
Signs are though that this is going to be milder.
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Re: Omicron No more than a cold ?
Huge overreaction, power hungry fear mongering.
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Re: Omicron No more than a cold ?
My very basic and non professional level of understanding based on what I've read and heard is that this would be the natural life cycle of this sort of disease.
That there is only so much that it can mutate, that it would eventually weaken itself. The higher the transmissibility of most diseases the weaker they generally are.
With vaccines, new treatments and perhaps, fingers crossed a milder variant spreading then is this the next phase in the pandemic?
We certainly can't keep closing businesses and having massive handouts from central government each winter.
I'd like to think out of this horrible disease comes reform for the NHS, the extra funding it needs and better working conditions and wages for its staff. Robust plans for future pandemics and a continued boom in the research and development of new treatments for all diseases.
Imagine cancer treatments had the funding and energy that covid has had.
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Re: Omicron No more than a cold ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hilts
Thats been the case with all the variants though for the majority.
Signs are though that this is going to be milder.
This is not a majority this is a tsunami fecking landslide.
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Re: Omicron No more than a cold ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trigger
My very basic and non professional level of understanding based on what I've read and heard is that this would be the natural life cycle of this sort of disease.
That there is only so much that it can mutate, that it would eventually weaken itself. The higher the transmissibility of most diseases the weaker they generally are.
With vaccines, new treatments and perhaps, fingers crossed a milder variant spreading then is this the next phase in the pandemic?
We certainly can't keep closing businesses and having massive handouts from central government each winter.
I'd like to think out of this horrible disease comes reform for the NHS, the extra funding it needs and better working conditions and wages for its staff. Robust plans for future pandemics and a continued boom in the research and development of new treatments for all diseases.
Imagine cancer treatments had the funding and energy that covid has had.
Great post mate. Sadly the response to Covid is (in my opinion) now causing more long term damage to lives than the virus itself ever did. Completely disproportionate response.
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Re: Omicron No more than a cold ?
Frustrating though it is that I can’t go here and can’t do this or that, I’d rather be under a government that prepares than one that crosses its fingers and hopes.
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Re: Omicron No more than a cold ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hilts
Im really hoping its milder than the flu.
I also dont know the comparison on the transmission comparisons between flu and omicron.
The problem is if its the equivalent of flu this virus is spreading so fast then the NHS is going to be in trouble quickly.
Not just the NHS with staff of sick and isolating but all businesses including essential public services.
If this was a flu pandemic with the same data, can you really see the UK Government's taking this kind of action. I cant. It would be lucky to get a mention.
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Re: Omicron No more than a cold ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trigger
My very basic and non professional level of understanding based on what I've read and heard is that this would be the natural life cycle of this sort of disease.
That there is only so much that it can mutate, that it would eventually weaken itself. The higher the transmissibility of most diseases the weaker they generally are.
With vaccines, new treatments and perhaps, fingers crossed a milder variant spreading then is this the next phase in the pandemic?
We certainly can't keep closing businesses and having massive handouts from central government each winter.
I'd like to think out of this horrible disease comes reform for the NHS, the extra funding it needs and better working conditions and wages for its staff. Robust plans for future pandemics and a continued boom in the research and development of new treatments for all diseases.
Imagine cancer treatments had the funding and energy that covid has had.
I think this is a really good post, especially the part about extra funding and resources. This is especially true when the biggest hit to the NHS over the next 10 years will be the long-term effects of Covid 19. That's the key part for me. That's the difference between Covid 19 and a cold virus. They may both present similar risks (although the risk of respiratory complications is significantly higher for Covid) for a lot of patients but unlike a cold virus, there's a sliding scale of immune responses in a wider variety of people. This would mean that for those who are predisposed to autoimmune triggers then Covid is a massive contributor and it's in these people that high risks of developing autoimmune diseases i.e.neurological diseases, that we should be preparing our services for in terms of long-term, chronic conditions.
None of our politicians are even talking about it let alone preparing. They're kicking the can down the road as they usually do with everything that's going to hit us badly in the future.
We're not training doctors, nurses, and other medical staff in anything like the numbers we're going to need them. We have no recruitment policy. All these positions and all this training should be free. The money that's been wasted could have been invested in people and training. Science has been politicised and the politicians have been weak. The media badly report the data and confuse the public and then we end up with the nightmare of conspiracy on social media. I've said before it's a mess and the real travesty is that nobody wants to be the one to say 'we got it wrong' in certain areas when that's exactly the kind of candid discussion we need to move forward.
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Re: Omicron No more than a cold ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jimmy the Jock
Would you have preferred the flu as a comparison?
Apparently kills 25,000 people each year.
Not that much, in a bad year like 2017 I think
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Re: Omicron No more than a cold ?
This virus hits different people in different ways.
My daughter and I had covin last Jan - I thought it was just a winter cold, my daughter had it only slightly worse.
But her boyfriend also had it, and started to have trouble breathing, was on the verge of going into hospital before he started recovering.
There were a load of hospital admissions back then and deaths were mounting up.
Yes, the omicron mutation appears to be less serious, but people have died with it.
But while seemingly having less serious symptoms, it seems to be far more transmittable - and a high trandmission rate means it is more likely to mutate further - into what? 80% fatality maybe?
We'd all be thanking Duckford for his cautious approach then.
We need EVERYBODY to get vaccinated to stop this- and that means "third world" countries, as well as the UK, or further mutations are inevitable, and one of those mutations could be the nightmare that effectively ends civilisation.
Rant over.
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Re: Omicron No more than a cold ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Citizen's Nephew
I think this is a really good post, especially the part about extra funding and resources. This is especially true when the biggest hit to the NHS over the next 10 years will be the long-term effects of Covid 19. That's the key part for me. That's the difference between Covid 19 and a cold virus. They may both present similar risks (although the risk of respiratory complications is significantly higher for Covid) for a lot of patients but unlike a cold virus, there's a sliding scale of immune responses in a wider variety of people. This would mean that for those who are predisposed to autoimmune triggers then Covid is a massive contributor and it's in these people that high risks of developing autoimmune diseases i.e.neurological diseases, that we should be preparing our services for in terms of long-term, chronic conditions.
None of our politicians are even talking about it let alone preparing. They're kicking the can down the road as they usually do with everything that's going to hit us badly in the future.
We're not training doctors, nurses, and other medical staff in anything like the numbers we're going to need them. We have no recruitment policy. All these positions and all this training should be free. The money that's been wasted could have been invested in people and training. Science has been politicised and the politicians have been weak. The media badly report the data and confuse the public and then we end up with the nightmare of conspiracy on social media. I've said before it's a mess and the real travesty is that nobody wants to be the one to say 'we got it wrong' in certain areas when that's exactly the kind of candid discussion we need to move forward.
Whichever government runs this country for the next 10/20 years we really need to invest in the nhs, more doctors, nurses, hospitals etc…the amount we have compared to a country like Germany is woeful…..
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Re: Omicron No more than a cold ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
goats
Whichever government runs this country for the next 10/20 years we really need to invest in the nhs, more doctors, nurses, hospitals etc…the amount we have compared to a country like Germany is woeful…..
:xmasthumbup:
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Re: Omicron No more than a cold ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
goats
Whichever government runs this country for the next 10/20 years we really need to invest in the nhs, more doctors, nurses, hospitals etc…the amount we have compared to a country like Germany is woeful…..
Agreed, but that will almost certainly mean increased taxes, will people vote for any party that runs on a ticket of taking more of their money?
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Re: Omicron No more than a cold ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
goats
Whichever government runs this country for the next 10/20 years we really need to invest in the nhs, more doctors, nurses, hospitals etc…the amount we have compared to a country like Germany is woeful…..
https://data.worldbank.org/indicator...ocations=GB-DE
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Re: Omicron No more than a cold ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
Agreed, but that will almost certainly mean increased taxes, will people vote for any party that runs on a ticket of taking more of their money?
If (and it's a big if) it is communicated properly, honestly, and fairly by any party and politician then there is some hope. These candid talks and discussions need to take place. The public needs to be told that healthcare is a priority. This doesn't mean just chucking money at the NHS, it means honestly discussing and recognising that all services and training has to be joined up. Money has to be made available and even small increases in taxation will help.
The current government, in my view, have done untold damage to the credibility of politicians and the key strategy for any opposition has to be from a point of honesty and treating the public as adults.
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Re: Omicron No more than a cold ?
BreakingNews ::
Omicron up to 70% less likely to need hospital care
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59769969
Please forward to Mr Drakeford.
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Re: Omicron No more than a cold ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
Makes a mockery of restrictions
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Re: Omicron No more than a cold ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
UNDERHILL1927
Makes a mockery of restrictions
It's political now, I notice Labour now refer to the wonderful example Welsh Labour sets .
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Re: Omicron No more than a cold ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
UNDERHILL1927
Makes a mockery of restrictions
It does but we had to take action prior to that data confirmed. Not easy when you're working on guesses
Problem is we won't now and retrospectively change those overzealous decisions
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Re: Omicron No more than a cold ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
I think were now in fear factor world , as leader of any administration around the world you just cant take a risk .
For the UK I think the English route of self responsibility measures seems to be the better option at this moment in time ( time will tell though as were in Covid political point scoring world now )
I think Wales is coming out with extra measures as our NHS is by far the worst in Britain. So the new measures are to try to reduce even more people seeking medical help
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Re: Omicron No more than a cold ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
goats
Whichever government runs this country for the next 10/20 years we really need to invest in the nhs, more doctors, nurses, hospitals etc…the amount we have compared to a country like Germany is woeful…..
This is the way forward, but unfortunately I suspect that most politicians will think that if the NHS survived this pandemic then it can survive when it’s over, with no need with further investment.
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Re: Omicron No more than a cold ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
az city
Couple of things, the data's 2 years old and in my view doesn't address the 'types' of physicians needed e.g. I'm pretty sure the spike in the graph in 2000 was a massive increase/influx of GPs? The number of GPs and other Drs is dropping because of Brexit and Covid stress-related issues now and over the last 2 years of the pandemic, I would expect this graph to plummet (of course I could be wrong).
I'm not convinced that physician is a good term when planning resources either.
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Re: Omicron No more than a cold ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
"... [M]edical experts agree that the higher transmissibility of the virus poses a severe threat to health care systems even if symptoms are milder, because the sheer volume of infections will likely lead to more people needing hospital care."
CNBC, 24 hours ago.
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Re: Omicron No more than a cold ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Citizen's Nephew
If (and it's a big if) it is communicated properly, honestly, and fairly by any party and politician then there is some hope. These candid talks and discussions need to take place. The public needs to be told that healthcare is a priority. This doesn't mean just chucking money at the NHS, it means honestly discussing and recognising that all services and training has to be joined up. Money has to be made available and even small increases in taxation will help.
The current government, in my view, have done untold damage to the credibility of politicians and the key strategy for any opposition has to be from a point of honesty and treating the public as adults.
Agree with all you have said. Politicians keep mentioning more money but the best solution is to publish the number of nurses and doctors in each of the four UK countries. After all we were all told that visas for these people would be processed immediately to make sure the numbers increased quickly.
Since then not one country has mentioned any staff numbers to show improvement.