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Aston Villa , their financial problems and rumours of a winding up order
Just to clarify the position , which is mentioned in several threads on a number of football messageboards.
There is NO winding up order against Aston Villa or its parent company Recon Group UK Ltd.
A winding up order is a court decision which places a company into liquidation and follows a (formal legally drafted) petition by a creditor who is owed money by a company.
Searches of the London Gazette , which is a paper where all petitions made have to be published , shows no petition lodged against either Aston Villa FC or Recon Group Ltd.
I think the media have referred to the risk of HMRC taking the above actions (as they are entitled to over an unpaid debt ) rather than such action has taken place yet. The reference to the money having to be paid within a week may have been leaked from within the club but is likely to be in relation to correspondence from HMRC pointing out that they will start proceedings if the debt due isn`t cleared by a certain date. HMRC may also have got a Statutory Demand out which is a formal legal notice giving the club 21 days to pay an undisputed debt (hence a specific date referral?) failing which they can proceed to the next stage of a winding up petition.
With regard to Aston Villa`s financial position in general , they undoubtedly have problems.
The accounts of Recon Group Limited show a huge loss of £81.2m in the year to 31 May 2016 , even after making a profit on player sales of £34.8m. In my opinion this is astounding as they were in the Premier League that season with all the income that enjoyed (total income was £108.8m). In the year to 31 May 2017 a further , but much reduced, loss of £14.5m after player sales profits of £26.6m was incurred (income was down to £73.8m). Because of their wages structure and continued reduced income levels , I expect their 2018 accounts to show a further loss.
The 2017 accounts also reveal that between 31 May 2017 and 12 February 2018 (the date the accounts were signed off by the board) the club sold players for £22.4m and bought players for £2.9m. In a similar period the previous year they had sold players for £21.0m and bought players for £60.5m.
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Re: Aston Villa , their financial problems and rumours of a winding up order
SSN were saying this morning that Villa missed their tax payment to HMRC because of cash flow problems in China and that they are trying to negotiate phased payments of the shortfall.
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Re: Aston Villa , their financial problems and rumours of a winding up order
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
SSN were saying this morning that Villa missed their tax payment to HMRC because of cash flow problems in China and that they are trying to negotiate phased payments of the shortfall.
It was also mentioned on Talk Sport this morning that Tony Xia was having difficulty getting his money out of China and thereby was unable to provide the level of support required. This might be speculative but could explain the cash flow problem mentioned above.
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Re: Aston Villa , their financial problems and rumours of a winding up order
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
SSN were saying this morning that Villa missed their tax payment to HMRC because of cash flow problems in China and that they are trying to negotiate phased payments of the shortfall.
Quite possible. In the year to 31 May 2017 Recon borrowed £49m from its ultimate holding company in China - Zhejiang Ruikang (Recon) Investment Co. Ltd which was itself owned by Mr J Xia. Maybe the money from that source has now dried up.
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Re: Aston Villa , their financial problems and rumours of a winding up order
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
SSN were saying this morning that Villa missed their tax payment to HMRC because of cash flow problems in China and that they are trying to negotiate phased payments of the shortfall.
In February of this year Aston Villa Fc Ltd borrowed just over 7.5m Euros from the London branch of an Australian bank Macquarie Bank Limited , presumably to help with cash flows.
The money borrowed was secured against transfer fees receivable in the future by taking an assignment of the debts due to the club by Olympique De Marseille in respect of the transfer of Jordan Amavi. The transfer monies are due to be paid in two equal instalments of 4m Euros on 15 July 2018 and 15 July 2019.
The same charge document also referes )in an appendix to a similar deal relating to the loan fee due by Olympique in respect of another player Carlos Sanchez Moreno - again two equal amounts of 4m Euros due on 15 July 2018 and 15 July 2019.Again , the amount due has been assigned to the bank.
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Re: Aston Villa , their financial problems and rumours of a winding up order
It's been known for some time that the Chinese Govt is unhappy about so much capital being invested abroad, not least in football clubs, and is clamping down. The recent purchase of Southampton FC shares was done through Hong Kong, which is still financially independent of the Chinese Govt.
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Re: Aston Villa , their financial problems and rumours of a winding up order
Keith, if you were guessing type - how will they get out of this hole they have created?
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Re: Aston Villa , their financial problems and rumours of a winding up order
Good article here in the Daily Mail about Aston Villa's woes:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/foo...-disaster.html
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Re: Aston Villa , their financial problems and rumours of a winding up order
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jeff Mansfield
It's been known for some time that the Chinese Govt is unhappy about so much capital being invested abroad, not least in football clubs, and is clamping down. The recent purchase of Southampton FC shares was done through Hong Kong, which is still financially independent of the Chinese Govt.
Matt Scott who writes about football finances called this last year especially in relation to Aston Villa.
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Re: Aston Villa , their financial problems and rumours of a winding up order
There has just be an item on Midlands Today about Aston Villa's financial woes. It backed up what is said above. Villa have overspent. Money going out is greater than money coming in. Chinese government are no longer keen to encourage investment in British football teams. Villa will have to be sold to someone with deep pockets. No mention of FFP though. So....... mind the gap Villa.
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Re: Aston Villa , their financial problems and rumours of a winding up order
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IanD
There has just be an item on Midlands Today about Aston Villa's financial woes. It backed up what is said above. Villa have overspent. Money going out is greater than money coming in. Chinese government are no longer keen to encourage investment in British football teams. Villa will have to be sold to someone with deep pockets. No mention of FFP though. So....... mind the gap Villa.
Staggering to think Villa have come to this situation, No way can clubs be successful spending that way and gambling on the future. Boy did they get the numbers wrong with last seasons wages and failure to grt promoted. There might be better news for them if this gossip is right though, taken from BBC footy gossip.
American Peter B Freund, a minority shareholder in baseball's New York Yankees, is lining up a £75m bid to buy Championship club Aston Villa. (Times - subscription required)
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Re: Aston Villa , their financial problems and rumours of a winding up order
Another good article here:
https://www.theguardian.com/football...a-bleak-future
This is going to be ugly!
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Re: Aston Villa , their financial problems and rumours of a winding up order
Maybe that rich bald fella who's grandma lives near Trafalgar Square can bail them out? He's a big fan apparently.
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Re: Aston Villa , their financial problems and rumours of a winding up order
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Since62
Just to clarify the position , which is mentioned in several threads on a number of football messageboards.
There is NO winding up order against Aston Villa or its parent company Recon Group UK Ltd.
A winding up order is a court decision which places a company into liquidation and follows a (formal legally drafted) petition by a creditor who is owed money by a company.
Searches of the London Gazette , which is a paper where all petitions made have to be published , shows no petition lodged against either Aston Villa FC or Recon Group Ltd.
I think the media have referred to the risk of HMRC taking the above actions (as they are entitled to over an unpaid debt ) rather than such action has taken place yet. The reference to the money having to be paid within a week may have been leaked from within the club but is likely to be in relation to correspondence from HMRC pointing out that they will start proceedings if the debt due isn`t cleared by a certain date. HMRC may also have got a Statutory Demand out which is a formal legal notice giving the club 21 days to pay an undisputed debt (hence a specific date referral?) failing which they can proceed to the next stage of a winding up petition.
With regard to Aston Villa`s financial position in general , they undoubtedly have problems.
The accounts of Recon Group Limited show a huge loss of £81.2m in the year to 31 May 2016 , even after making a profit on player sales of £34.8m. In my opinion this is astounding as they were in the Premier League that season with all the income that enjoyed (total income was £108.8m). In the year to 31 May 2017 a further , but much reduced, loss of £14.5m after player sales profits of £26.6m was incurred (income was down to £73.8m). Because of their wages structure and continued reduced income levels , I expect their 2018 accounts to show a further loss.
The 2017 accounts also reveal that between 31 May 2017 and 12 February 2018 (the date the accounts were signed off by the board) the club sold players for £22.4m and bought players for £2.9m. In a similar period the previous year they had sold players for £21.0m and bought players for £60.5m.
As I understand it, amortisation of transfer fees means that Villa have ongoing costs on their accounts beyond the period of parachute payments, income has declined and HMRC have only been paid £0.5 million with £1.2 million more of the £4 million tax bill to come by the end of the week, their owner having difficulty getting money out of China. Triple whammy with FFP yet to kick in. Anyone stumping up £75 million to buy the club, as has been reported, would surely step away from such a deal or drastically reduce any offer due to ongoing financial commitments. Just goes to show how important it will be for us to reach 40 points and (greater) financial security, next season.
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Re: Aston Villa , their financial problems and rumours of a winding up order
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Re: Aston Villa , their financial problems and rumours of a winding up order
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
Or West Ham. He gets confused. :hehe:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...on-villa-gaffe
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Re: Aston Villa , their financial problems and rumours of a winding up order
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
Further down that page there is a news item on Villa....looks like they are selling the staff car park to raise funds. Desperate times. Maybe Cameron will bail Aston Ham out....or whatever team he supports.
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Re: Aston Villa , their financial problems and rumours of a winding up order
So what club is jack Grealish going to then ? I think theres a lesson to be learned here for our approach to spending for next season.
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Re: Aston Villa , their financial problems and rumours of a winding up order
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Harry Monk
If he was still in power Burnley could be in there too :hehe: ..well remembered
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Re: Aston Villa , their financial problems and rumours of a winding up order
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Chris Pontprennau Blues
Keith, if you were guessing type - how will they get out of this hole they have created?
Sorry , missed the question earlier.
The only realistic way out of trouble is a sale of a few of their better players at a big profit while they also try to bring down their wage bill still further. Grealish is in their books at zero value so any transfer fee for him would be pure profit. That might apply to some others as well but they do have a number of players that cost them a lot of money and who are on big wages that will probably be difficult to shift at a profit.
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Re: Aston Villa , their financial problems and rumours of a winding up order
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Since62
Sorry , missed the question earlier.
The only realistic way out of trouble is a sale of a few of their better players at a big profit while they also try to bring down their wage bill still further. Grealish is in their books at zero value so any transfer fee for him would be pure profit. That might apply to some others as well but they do have a number of players that cost them a lot of money and who are on big wages that will probably be difficult to shift at a profit.
Grealish came through Villa's youth system so will be profit. Current favourites to buy him, according to the bookies...Spurs. £30 million has been touted in the press. Now that potential clubs know Villa are in a financial mess, any sale of Grealish might not realise such an amount. I do wonder how he would cope away from Villa having been with them so long.
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Re: Aston Villa , their financial problems and rumours of a winding up order
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IanD
Grealish came through Villa's youth system so will be profit. Current favourites to buy him, according to the bookies...Spurs. £30 million has been touted in the press. Now that potential clubs know Villa are in a financial mess, any sale of Grealish might not realise such an amount. I do wonder how he would cope away from Villa having been with them so long.
He hasn't exactly been a model professional whilst he's been there!
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Re: Aston Villa , their financial problems and rumours of a winding up order
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Toadstool
He hasn't exactly been a model professional whilst he's been there!
Quality footballer though.
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Re: Aston Villa , their financial problems and rumours of a winding up order
Villa have been in the shite for 7 or 8 years, but they never quite got relegated so they got away with it. They probably should have gone down three seasons before they eventually did. It's not a surprise to see them in the state they are now.
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Re: Aston Villa , their financial problems and rumours of a winding up order
I don't think anyone will be spending anything like 30 or 40 million for grealish. There are far better players in the division that you could get for less, let alone abroad.
Wishful thinking from villa, nothing more
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Re: Aston Villa , their financial problems and rumours of a winding up order
£30m for Grealish :hehe: :hehe:
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Re: Aston Villa , their financial problems and rumours of a winding up order
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Originally Posted by
City123
£30m for Grealish :hehe: :hehe:
Reckon won't be far off - being English adds a few mill £
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Re: Aston Villa , their financial problems and rumours of a winding up order
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Chris Pontprennau Blues
Reckon won't be far off - being English adds a few mill £
Not a dissimilar player to Ross Barkley who went to Chelsea for £15m. £30m is excessive for Grealish who I would put in the £10m - £15m range.
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Re: Aston Villa , their financial problems and rumours of a winding up order
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Vindec
Not a dissimilar player to Ross Barkley who went to Chelsea for £15m. £30m is excessive for Grealish who I would put in the £10m - £15m range.
The Villa need to sell will also drive his price down. It'll be a buyers market for Villa players.
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Re: Aston Villa , their financial problems and rumours of a winding up order
Are they still paying 50k a week for McCormack?
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Re: Aston Villa , their financial problems and rumours of a winding up order
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jamieccfc
Are they still paying 50k a week for McCormack?
apparently his house gates are jammed closed and can't get to training :wave:
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Re: Aston Villa , their financial problems and rumours of a winding up order
It seemed that they were spending more under Bruce in the championship that Lambert in the premier league - problems.
Would anyone mind if the top 6 did bugger off to their own super league? Football could become financially sensible and have competitive fixtures between sides a) not getting burnt chasing the sun and b) where much fewer clubs died a death.
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Re: Aston Villa , their financial problems and rumours of a winding up order
Meanwhile, AVs chairman has borrowed enough money to keep HMRC at bay and pay ongoing wages. The club is playing down any hint of administration but it does look bleak for them unless they can offload players such as Grealish ASAP. The club might raise £4.5 million by selling the staff car park so long as it has planning permission. Villa seem to be surviving on credit and selling the family silver.
